Skype or not?

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by SBS, Sep 22, 2006.

  1. SBS

    SBS Guest

    SBS, Sep 22, 2006
    #1
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  2. SBS

    Brian A Guest

    On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:51:28 +0200, "SBS" <>
    wrote:

    >Skype is free, but... Read this article:
    >
    >http://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/002372.html

    With reference to the article it could well have been Skype. It can be
    responsible for more bandwidth eating than for just the call you are
    on.

    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    Skype Free Zone!!
     
    Brian A, Sep 23, 2006
    #2
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  3. SBS

    Carl Waring Guest

    Brian A wrote:
    > On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:51:28 +0200, "SBS" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Skype is free, but... Read this article:
    >>
    >> http://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/002372.html

    > With reference to the article it could well have been Skype. It can be
    > responsible for more bandwidth eating than for just the call you are
    > on.


    "It would certainly be puzzling, because if Skype was so poorly architected
    as to network-misbehave like this then you would think that all sorts of
    people would be reporting the same problem."

    They certainly would. Where are they all? I guess it's not Skype after all
    :)

    --
    Carl Waring
    DigiGuide: http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495
    DGLite: http://getdigiguide.com/?p=4&r=1495 - FREE!!!
     
    Carl Waring, Sep 23, 2006
    #3
  4. SBS

    Rich Guest

    Whats the big deal. Skype has always worked like this!

    If you have plenty of bandwidth then its used to help other people
    out. All down to p2p tech - and besides your getting free calls.

    Rich

    On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:51:28 +0200, "SBS" <>
    wrote:

    >Skype is free, but... Read this article:
    >
    >http://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/002372.html
    >
    >Regards.
    >



    ---
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    Rich, Sep 23, 2006
    #4
  5. SBS

    SBS Guest

    Rich () ha scritto:

    :: Whats the big deal. Skype has always worked like this!
    ::
    :: If you have plenty of bandwidth then its used to help other
    :: people out.

    Who grant me that my bandwidth (I have paid) has not been
    used by skype to make possible any charged calls?
     
    SBS, Sep 23, 2006
    #5
  6. SBS

    SBS Guest

    Brian A () ha scritto:

    ::: http://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/002372.html

    :: With reference to the article it could well have been Skype. It can be
    :: responsible for more bandwidth eating than for just the call you are
    :: on.

    It does, I am sure!
     
    SBS, Sep 23, 2006
    #6
  7. SBS

    SBS Guest

    Carl Waring () ha scritto:

    :: "It would certainly be puzzling, because if Skype was so
    :: poorly architected as to network-misbehave like this then
    :: you would think that all sorts of people would be reporting
    :: the same problem."
    ::
    :: They certainly would. Where are they all? I guess it's not
    :: Skype after all :)

    You are wrong :)
     
    SBS, Sep 23, 2006
    #7
  8. SBS

    JW Guest

    SBS wrote:
    > Rich () ha scritto:
    >
    > :: Whats the big deal. Skype has always worked like this!
    > ::
    > :: If you have plenty of bandwidth then its used to help other
    > :: people out.
    >
    > Who grant me that my bandwidth (I have paid) has not been
    > used by skype to make possible any charged calls?
    >
    >


    It's quite easy for the average home user to stop their PC
    becoming a supernode. It should be possible for firewalled
    businesses to stop it as well.
     
    JW, Sep 23, 2006
    #8
  9. SBS

    Carl Waring Guest

    SBS wrote:
    > Carl Waring () ha scritto:
    >
    >>> "It would certainly be puzzling, because if Skype was so
    >>> poorly architected as to network-misbehave like this then
    >>> you would think that all sorts of people would be reporting
    >>> the same problem."
    >>>
    >>> They certainly would. Where are they all? I guess it's not
    >>> Skype after all :)

    >
    > You are wrong :)


    Prove it then :-D

    --
    Carl Waring
    DigiGuide: http://getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=1495
    DGLite: http://getdigiguide.com/?p=4&r=1495 - FREE!!!
     
    Carl Waring, Sep 24, 2006
    #9
  10. SBS

    SBS Guest

    SBS, Sep 24, 2006
    #10
  11. SBS

    SBS Guest

    JW () ha scritto:

    :: It's quite easy for the average home user to stop their PC
    :: becoming a supernode.

    How can I do it?
     
    SBS, Sep 24, 2006
    #11
  12. SBS

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "SBS" <> wrote in message
    news:4516c7b7$0$17455$
    > JW () ha scritto:
    >
    > > > It's quite easy for the average home user to stop
    > > > their PC becoming a supernode.

    >
    > How can I do it?


    Don't run Skype.

    Ivor
     
    Ivor Jones, Sep 24, 2006
    #12
  13. SBS

    Brian A Guest

    On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:35:35 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    <> wrote:

    >"SBS" <> wrote in message
    >news:4516c7b7$0$17455$
    >> JW () ha scritto:
    >>
    >> > > It's quite easy for the average home user to stop
    >> > > their PC becoming a supernode.

    >>
    >> How can I do it?

    >
    >Don't run Skype.
    >
    >Ivor

    Ha ha ...very good Ivor :)


    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    Skype Free Zone!!
     
    Brian A, Sep 24, 2006
    #13
  14. SBS

    Carl Waring Guest

    Carl Waring, Sep 25, 2006
    #14
  15. SBS

    Brian A Guest

    On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:51:07 GMT, "Carl Waring"
    <> wrote:

    >SBS wrote:
    >> Carl Waring () ha scritto:
    >>
    >>>>>>> I guess it's not Skype after all :)

    >>
    >>>>> You are wrong :)

    >>
    >>>> Prove it then :-D

    >>
    >> The article: http://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/002372.html
    >> proves it.

    >
    >ONE article on the whole of the internet? Yeah. Okay :-D

    There are in fact many articles on the Net about the bandwidth used by
    Skype. You only need to google to see that.
    Here is a discussion on the Skype forum which may prove of interest
    and of use.
    http://tinyurl.com/m3db6
    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    Skype Free Zone!!
     
    Brian A, Sep 25, 2006
    #15
  16. SBS

    Brian A Guest

    On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:04:06 GMT, Brian A
    <> wrote:

    >On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:35:35 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>"SBS" <> wrote in message
    >>news:4516c7b7$0$17455$
    >>> JW () ha scritto:
    >>>
    >>> > > It's quite easy for the average home user to stop
    >>> > > their PC becoming a supernode.
    >>>
    >>> How can I do it?

    >>
    >>Don't run Skype.
    >>
    >>Ivor

    >Ha ha ...very good Ivor :)
    >
    >
    >Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    >Skype Free Zone!!

    Here is a technical article on the workings of Skype by:-

    Salman A. Baset and Henning Schulzrinne
    Department of Computer Science
    Columbia University, New York NY 10027
    {salman,hgs}@cs.columbia.edu
    September 15, 2004

    http://tinyurl.com/5hal4

    Extracts:- (Note: SC=Skype Client, SN=Super Node)

    "Any node with a public IP address having
    sufficient CPU, memory, and network bandwidth is a candidate to
    become a super node."


    "Unlike its file sharing counter part KaZaa, a SC cannot prevent
    itself from becoming a super node."


    "We observed that a SC must establish a TCP connection with a
    SN in order to connect to the Skype network. If it cannot connect
    to a super node, it will report a login failure."

    Most firewalls are configured to allow outgoing TCP traffic to
    port 80 (HTTP port) and port 443 (HTTPS port). A SC behind a
    firewall, which blocks UDP traffic and permits selective TCP
    traffic, takes advantage of this fact. At login, it establishes a TCP
    connection with another Skype node with a public IP address and
    port 80 or port 443."

    END QUOTES
    I would glean from this that a Skype Client CAN become a super node,
    under appropriate conditions, and, as such, exchange much higher
    levels of data than expected. Also, that some clients HAVE to be
    supernodes of the system would not work.

    So, the apparent increase in quality of sound (though not consistent)
    is at the expense of the super node clients.



    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    Skype Free Zone!!
     
    Brian A, Sep 25, 2006
    #16
  17. SBS

    JW Guest

    SBS wrote:
    > JW () ha scritto:
    >
    > :: It's quite easy for the average home user to stop their PC
    > :: becoming a supernode.
    >
    > How can I do it?
    >
    >


    Put your PC into standby or off when not in use. This is
    not of course possible if you want to receive incoming calls
    all the time, but then if you want that, you'd probably not
    want to use Skype.

    Alternatively, use a router.
     
    JW, Oct 4, 2006
    #17
  18. SBS

    JW Guest

    Brian A wrote:
    <<snip quotes>>
    > I would glean from this that a Skype Client CAN become a super node,
    > under appropriate conditions, and, as such, exchange much higher
    > levels of data than expected. Also, that some clients HAVE to be
    > supernodes of the system would not work.


    Indeed, but this is not to say that ANY Client can become a
    super node.

    >
    > So, the apparent increase in quality of sound (though not consistent)
    > is at the expense of the super node clients.
    >


    I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that the voice traffic is
    routed via the super nodes.
     
    JW, Oct 4, 2006
    #18
  19. SBS

    Soruk Guest

    On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 11:26:18 +0100, JW <> wrote:
    >Brian A wrote:
    ><<snip quotes>>
    >> So, the apparent increase in quality of sound (though not consistent)
    >> is at the expense of the super node clients.

    >
    >I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that the voice traffic is
    >routed via the super nodes.


    It could well be (it's encrypted though, if you believe Skype), it's the
    only way to route traffic between two users who are both behind NAT setups
    (e.g. router users) without one of them doing a port-forward.

    --
    -- Michael "Soruk" McConnell
    Eridani Star System

    MailStripper - http://www.MailStripper.eu/ - SMTP spam filter
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    Soruk, Oct 10, 2006
    #19
  20. SBS

    Chris Davies Guest

    Soruk <> wrote:
    > It could well be (it's encrypted though, if you believe Skype), it's the
    > only way to route traffic between two users who are both behind NAT setups
    > (e.g. router users) without one of them doing a port-forward.


    There are certain circumstances when it /is/ possible for two users,
    both behind NAT devices, to communicate directly with each other. This
    is well-understood P2P technology.

    Consider two users, A and B, and a supernode C. A can talk to C. B can
    talk to C. Neither A nor B can receive new inbound sessions as they
    are both behind NAT firewalls. However, either A or B can initiate new
    outbound sessions, courtesy their NAT devices. All traffic in this
    scenario is UDP based.

    1. A initiates session to C
    2. B initiates session to C

    A wants to talk directly to B

    3. A says to C, "please tell B to talk to me"
    4. C passes this message on, using the session started by B in #2
    5. A starts talking to B

    At this stage, packets from A are discarded by B's NAT firewall

    6 B starts talking to A

    Now, since A's NAT firewall thinks it is already talking to B, it
    lets the packets back in. Further, since B is already talking to A,
    A's packets to B are also let in by B's firewall

    7. A and B are now talking directly to each other, and C is no longer
    required

    Chris
     
    Chris Davies, Oct 10, 2006
    #20
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