Sipgate : Signalling issues

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Andrew (G0RVM), Feb 21, 2006.

  1. I'm getting increasingly annoyed with Sipgate just now due to the many
    outgoing PSTN calls that fail to connect. Quite often there is a long
    delay between my INVITE and their 200 OK (40+ secs) together with the
    establishment of bidirectional media streams.

    These issues seem to have started this year and are very frustrating. Around
    only 40% of the calls work. More frustratingly sometimes the PSTN end has
    answered the call and is streaming media but the SIP signalling from
    Sipgate that would communicate call establishment is not seen at my end.

    Is anyone else using Sipgate for PSTN calls suffering from similar issues?


    Also, and related to the above, can anyone clarify the purpose of a SIP '183
    SESSION PROGRESS' message and when it should be sent? Can it replace a
    '200 OK' under some circumstances? I ask, as it would appear Sipgate are
    sending this when I would expect a '200 OK'. It contains the info I would
    expect in a '200 OK' too.

    Thanks,
    Andrew
    Andrew (G0RVM), Feb 21, 2006
    #1
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  2. Andrew (G0RVM)

    Jono Guest

    Andrew (G0RVM) laid this down on his screen :
    > I'm getting increasingly annoyed with Sipgate just now due to the many
    > outgoing PSTN calls that fail to connect. Quite often there is a long
    > delay between my INVITE and their 200 OK (40+ secs) together with the
    > establishment of bidirectional media streams.
    >
    > These issues seem to have started this year and are very frustrating. Around
    > only 40% of the calls work. More frustratingly sometimes the PSTN end has
    > answered the call and is streaming media but the SIP signalling from
    > Sipgate that would communicate call establishment is not seen at my end.
    >
    > Is anyone else using Sipgate for PSTN calls suffering from similar issues?
    >
    >
    > Also, and related to the above, can anyone clarify the purpose of a SIP '183
    > SESSION PROGRESS' message and when it should be sent? Can it replace a
    > '200 OK' under some circumstances? I ask, as it would appear Sipgate are
    > sending this when I would expect a '200 OK'. It contains the info I would
    > expect in a '200 OK' too.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Andrew


    I was experiencing exactly what you describe..............until I got a
    better router. Virtually all the problems I have ever experience have
    been at my end, not the provider's.
    Jono, Feb 21, 2006
    #2
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  3. In this case I don't beleive its anything to do with my Intertex router.
    I'm capturing/monitoring packets on the outside of the router, directly
    before the cable modem.

    Would be interested to know the router you had and to which one you moved?

    Thanks,
    Andrew

    "Jono" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Andrew (G0RVM) laid this down on his screen :
    >> I'm getting increasingly annoyed with Sipgate just now due to the many
    >> outgoing PSTN calls that fail to connect. Quite often there is a long
    >> delay between my INVITE and their 200 OK (40+ secs) together with the
    >> establishment of bidirectional media streams.
    >>
    >> These issues seem to have started this year and are very frustrating.
    >> Around
    >> only 40% of the calls work. More frustratingly sometimes the PSTN end
    >> has
    >> answered the call and is streaming media but the SIP signalling from
    >> Sipgate that would communicate call establishment is not seen at my end.
    >> Is anyone else using Sipgate for PSTN calls suffering from similar
    >> issues?
    >>
    >>
    >> Also, and related to the above, can anyone clarify the purpose of a SIP
    >> '183
    >> SESSION PROGRESS' message and when it should be sent? Can it replace a
    >> '200 OK' under some circumstances? I ask, as it would appear Sipgate are
    >> sending this when I would expect a '200 OK'. It contains the info I
    >> would
    >> expect in a '200 OK' too.
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Andrew

    >
    > I was experiencing exactly what you describe..............until I got a
    > better router. Virtually all the problems I have ever experience have been
    > at my end, not the provider's.
    >
    >
    Andrew \(G0RVM\), Feb 22, 2006
    #3
  4. Andrew (G0RVM)

    Jono Guest

    Andrew (G0RVM) wrote:


    >
    > "Jono" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Andrew (G0RVM) laid this down on his screen :
    >>> I'm getting increasingly annoyed with Sipgate just now due to the many
    >>> outgoing PSTN calls that fail to connect. Quite often there is a long
    >>> delay between my INVITE and their 200 OK (40+ secs) together with the
    >>> establishment of bidirectional media streams.
    >>>
    >>> These issues seem to have started this year and are very frustrating.
    >>> Around
    >>> only 40% of the calls work. More frustratingly sometimes the PSTN end
    >>> has
    >>> answered the call and is streaming media but the SIP signalling from
    >>> Sipgate that would communicate call establishment is not seen at my end.
    >>> Is anyone else using Sipgate for PSTN calls suffering from similar
    >>> issues?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Also, and related to the above, can anyone clarify the purpose of a SIP
    >>> '183
    >>> SESSION PROGRESS' message and when it should be sent? Can it replace a
    >>> '200 OK' under some circumstances? I ask, as it would appear Sipgate
    >>> are
    >>> sending this when I would expect a '200 OK'. It contains the info I
    >>> would
    >>> expect in a '200 OK' too.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks,
    >>> Andrew

    >>
    >> I was experiencing exactly what you describe..............until I got a
    >> better router. Virtually all the problems I have ever experience have
    >> been at my end, not the provider's.
    >>
    >>

    > In this case I don't beleive its anything to do with my Intertex router.
    > I'm capturing/monitoring packets on the outside of the router, directly
    > before the cable modem.
    >
    > Would be interested to know the router you had and to which one you moved?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Andrew


    Originally had an Origo router, cheapo @ £20

    Now got Linksys WRT54G with DD-WRT firmware.
    Jono, Feb 22, 2006
    #4
  5. Roger Barrett wrote:
    >
    > Andrew
    > Im using the Linksys and getting exactly same problem - up to 45 second to
    > connect on a call - seems to have gotten a lot worse in the past week.
    > Roger.
    >


    Weird not getting that here. Mind you, I'm sure you knew I'd say that.
    Thomas Kenyon, Feb 22, 2006
    #5
  6. "Jono" <> wrote in message
    news:qRUKf.24585$...
    > Andrew (G0RVM) wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >> "Jono" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Andrew (G0RVM) laid this down on his screen :
    >>>> I'm getting increasingly annoyed with Sipgate just now due to the many
    >>>> outgoing PSTN calls that fail to connect. Quite often there is a long
    >>>> delay between my INVITE and their 200 OK (40+ secs) together with the
    >>>> establishment of bidirectional media streams.
    >>>>
    >>>> These issues seem to have started this year and are very frustrating.
    >>>> Around
    >>>> only 40% of the calls work. More frustratingly sometimes the PSTN end
    >>>> has
    >>>> answered the call and is streaming media but the SIP signalling from
    >>>> Sipgate that would communicate call establishment is not seen at my
    >>>> end.
    >>>> Is anyone else using Sipgate for PSTN calls suffering from similar
    >>>> issues?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Also, and related to the above, can anyone clarify the purpose of a SIP
    >>>> '183
    >>>> SESSION PROGRESS' message and when it should be sent? Can it replace a
    >>>> '200 OK' under some circumstances? I ask, as it would appear Sipgate
    >>>> are
    >>>> sending this when I would expect a '200 OK'. It contains the info I
    >>>> would
    >>>> expect in a '200 OK' too.
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks,
    >>>> Andrew
    >>>
    >>> I was experiencing exactly what you describe..............until I got a
    >>> better router. Virtually all the problems I have ever experience have
    >>> been at my end, not the provider's.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> In this case I don't beleive its anything to do with my Intertex router.
    >> I'm capturing/monitoring packets on the outside of the router, directly
    >> before the cable modem.
    >>
    >> Would be interested to know the router you had and to which one you
    >> moved?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Andrew

    >
    > Originally had an Origo router, cheapo @ £20
    >
    > Now got Linksys WRT54G with DD-WRT firmware.
    >

    Andrew
    Im using the Linksys and getting exactly same problem - up to 45 second to
    connect on a call - seems to have gotten a lot worse in the past week.
    Roger.
    Roger Barrett, Feb 22, 2006
    #6
  7. "Andrew (G0RVM)" <> wrote...

    > I'm getting increasingly annoyed with Sipgate just now due to the many
    > outgoing PSTN calls that fail to connect. Quite often there is a long
    > delay between my INVITE and their 200 OK (40+ secs) together with the
    > establishment of bidirectional media streams.
    >
    > These issues seem to have started this year and are very frustrating.

    Around
    > only 40% of the calls work. More frustratingly sometimes the PSTN end has
    > answered the call and is streaming media but the SIP signalling from
    > Sipgate that would communicate call establishment is not seen at my end.
    >
    > Is anyone else using Sipgate for PSTN calls suffering from similar issues?


    Seeing the same thing Andrew, although I haven't traced it at packet level.
    It's definately Sipgate, when Sipgate fails (frequently, it's my 'junk'
    line) the second line from Gradwell on the same Sipura SPA 2000 connects
    inbound and outbound perfectly.

    Keith L
    Keith Lawrence, Feb 22, 2006
    #7
  8. Andrew (G0RVM)

    Guest

    On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:25:53 GMT, Thomas Kenyon
    <> wrote:

    >Roger Barrett wrote:
    >>
    >> Andrew
    >> Im using the Linksys and getting exactly same problem - up to 45 second to
    >> connect on a call - seems to have gotten a lot worse in the past week.
    >> Roger.
    >>

    >
    >Weird not getting that here. Mind you, I'm sure you knew I'd say that.

    Of course you are like Ivor in that respect .
    , Feb 22, 2006
    #8
  9. Andrew (G0RVM)

    Alex Guest

    "Andrew (G0RVM)" <> wrote in message
    news:52NKf.31351$...
    > I'm getting increasingly annoyed with Sipgate just now due to the many
    > outgoing PSTN calls that fail to connect. Quite often there is a long
    > delay between my INVITE and their 200 OK (40+ secs) together with the
    > establishment of bidirectional media streams.
    >
    > These issues seem to have started this year and are very frustrating.
    > Around
    > only 40% of the calls work. More frustratingly sometimes the PSTN end has
    > answered the call and is streaming media but the SIP signalling from
    > Sipgate that would communicate call establishment is not seen at my end.
    >
    > Is anyone else using Sipgate for PSTN calls suffering from similar issues?
    >
    >
    > Also, and related to the above, can anyone clarify the purpose of a SIP
    > '183
    > SESSION PROGRESS' message and when it should be sent? Can it replace a
    > '200 OK' under some circumstances? I ask, as it would appear Sipgate are
    > sending this when I would expect a '200 OK'. It contains the info I would
    > expect in a '200 OK' too.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Andrew
    >


    Same here. Tried to call a mobile yesterday, took about 5 attempts. Then
    when it did connect to the mobiles voicemail (they didn't pick up) it
    dropped the call before the beep so I couldn't leave a message. There have
    been quite a few dropped calls and failed outbound calls lately. Plus quite
    alot of the time I don't get a ringing tone when I'm calling someone, its
    just silent until they pick up. I know that this is generated my end,
    however it only works intermittently on both my Grandstream ATA and Draytek
    voip router, which leads me to believe sipgate aren't sending out a signal
    when they should.

    My Grandstream has sat without configuration change for about a year now,
    and my Draytek for about 6 months- it used to work perfectly, its only as
    late that I've been having problems. I was kind of leaving them to it hoping
    that it'd get sorted out before I try another provider, as I have two nifty
    memorable Sipgate PSTN numbers which everyone knows, changing it would be a
    pig, plus they were good up until not too long ago...

    Alex
    Alex, Feb 22, 2006
    #9
  10. Alex wrote:

    >
    > "Andrew (G0RVM)" <> wrote in message
    > news:52NKf.31351$...
    >> I'm getting increasingly annoyed with Sipgate just now due to the many
    >> outgoing PSTN calls that fail to connect. Quite often there is a long
    >> delay between my INVITE and their 200 OK (40+ secs) together with the
    >> establishment of bidirectional media streams.
    >>
    >> These issues seem to have started this year and are very frustrating.
    >> Around
    >> only 40% of the calls work. More frustratingly sometimes the PSTN end
    >> has answered the call and is streaming media but the SIP signalling from
    >> Sipgate that would communicate call establishment is not seen at my end.
    >>
    >> Is anyone else using Sipgate for PSTN calls suffering from similar
    >> issues?
    >>
    >>
    >> Also, and related to the above, can anyone clarify the purpose of a SIP
    >> '183
    >> SESSION PROGRESS' message and when it should be sent? Can it replace a
    >> '200 OK' under some circumstances? I ask, as it would appear Sipgate are
    >> sending this when I would expect a '200 OK'. It contains the info I
    >> would expect in a '200 OK' too.
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Andrew
    >>

    >
    > Same here. Tried to call a mobile yesterday, took about 5 attempts. Then
    > when it did connect to the mobiles voicemail (they didn't pick up) it
    > dropped the call before the beep so I couldn't leave a message. There have
    > been quite a few dropped calls and failed outbound calls lately. Plus
    > quite alot of the time I don't get a ringing tone when I'm calling
    > someone, its just silent until they pick up. I know that this is generated
    > my end, however it only works intermittently on both my Grandstream ATA
    > and Draytek voip router, which leads me to believe sipgate aren't sending
    > out a signal when they should.
    >
    > My Grandstream has sat without configuration change for about a year now,
    > and my Draytek for about 6 months- it used to work perfectly, its only as
    > late that I've been having problems. I was kind of leaving them to it
    > hoping that it'd get sorted out before I try another provider, as I have
    > two nifty memorable Sipgate PSTN numbers which everyone knows, changing it
    > would be a pig, plus they were good up until not too long ago...
    >
    > Alex


    Alex,

    Thanks for the info. I am going to start another thread in the next few
    days once I have accumulated some more stats. But a brief note here won't
    go amiss.

    I have now captured several calls from/to my Sigate account using the PSTN
    and to another account I have with Sipgate, thus with the latter, staying
    in the IP universe.

    All calls have been captured using ethereal on the outside of my
    firewall/router - in this way I get to see exactly what is being exchanged
    with Sipgate.

    The first thing I realised is that Ring tones may be generated locally at
    the client OR remotely by the network. In the former case a '180 RINGING'
    is received. Alternatvely, is seems possible to omit this message and pass
    the Ring tone in the RTP media stream. In that case a '182 Session
    Progress' message is received. (Someone correct me if I've got that wrong)

    Now I routinely suffer from the same problem as you - No Ring tone - the
    called person just answers the phone. This is caused by, in my case, the
    Grandstream HT-286 not getting a '180 RINGING' message from Sipgate. (when
    it does - it rings) My HT-286 does not seem to process the '182 SESSION
    PROGRESS' message correctly, probably understanding it as a '100 TRYING'.
    Therefore it does not realise the Ring tones are being sent and start
    replaying the incoming media stream to the client device.

    I have identified a number of other issues too related to signalling
    latencies and also Sipgate just not generating required signalling.

    All this is not random either, it occurs worryingly often. Now, I'm pretty
    sure I'm not barking up the wrong tree, but just to make sure I'm going to
    start another thread (mentioned earlier) to see if other people make of my
    tests, results and conclusions.

    Regards,
    Andrew
    Andrew (G0RVM), Feb 22, 2006
    #10
  11. Andrew (G0RVM) wrote:

    > Now I routinely suffer from the same problem as you - No Ring tone - the
    > called person just answers the phone.
    >

    I've had this when using international calling cards (from a payphone).
    Thomas Kenyon, Feb 22, 2006
    #11
  12. Thus spaketh Thomas Kenyon:
    > Roger Barrett wrote:
    >>
    >> Andrew
    >> Im using the Linksys and getting exactly same problem - up to 45
    >> second to connect on a call - seems to have gotten a lot worse in
    >> the past week. Roger.
    >>

    >
    > Weird not getting that here. Mind you, I'm sure you knew I'd say that.


    I'm using a LinkSys PAP2 connected to a LinkSys router, and have no problems.
    {{{{{Welcome}}}}}, Feb 22, 2006
    #12
  13. Andrew (G0RVM)

    Chris S Guest

    AG> These issues seem to have started this year and are very frustrating.
    AG> Around only 40% of the calls work. More frustratingly sometimes the
    AG> PSTN end has answered the call and is streaming media but the SIP
    AG> signalling from Sipgate that would communicate call establishment is
    AG> not seen at my end.

    AG> Is anyone else using Sipgate for PSTN calls suffering from similar
    AG> issues?

    AG> Also, and related to the above, can anyone clarify the purpose of a SIP
    AG> '183 SESSION PROGRESS' message and when it should be sent? Can it
    AG> replace a '200 OK' under some circumstances? I ask, as it would appear
    AG> Sipgate are sending this when I would expect a '200 OK'. It contains
    AG> the info I would expect in a '200 OK' too.

    yup, same problem , other end doesn't ring for about 30 seconds after
    dialing the number , using a netgear TA612V , and i'd say 80% of my calls
    get thro, altho i make very few calls, maybe 4 a week!
    Chris S, Feb 22, 2006
    #13
  14. Andrew (G0RVM)

    GwG Guest

    "Chris S" <> wrote in message
    news:43fc90cb$0$29573$...
    >
    > AG> These issues seem to have started this year and are very
    > frustrating.
    > AG> Around only 40% of the calls work. More frustratingly sometimes
    > the
    > AG> PSTN end has answered the call and is streaming media but the SIP
    > AG> signalling from Sipgate that would communicate call establishment
    > is
    > AG> not seen at my end.
    >
    > AG> Is anyone else using Sipgate for PSTN calls suffering from similar
    > AG> issues?
    >
    > AG> Also, and related to the above, can anyone clarify the purpose of
    > a SIP
    > AG> '183 SESSION PROGRESS' message and when it should be sent? Can it
    > AG> replace a '200 OK' under some circumstances? I ask, as it would
    > appear
    > AG> Sipgate are sending this when I would expect a '200 OK'. It
    > contains
    > AG> the info I would expect in a '200 OK' too.
    >
    > yup, same problem , other end doesn't ring for about 30 seconds after
    > dialing the number , using a netgear TA612V , and i'd say 80% of my
    > calls get thro, altho i make very few calls, maybe 4 a week!


    I have received 3 calls through Sipgate today, on 2 of them my phone
    rang, and the callers number was displayed, but when I picked up the
    phone I just got silence, so they gave up and rang me on my mobile, the
    third call got through without problem. I have been happy with Sipgate
    up until now, but this is getting disconcerting.
    GwG, Feb 22, 2006
    #14
  15. Andrew (G0RVM)

    Guest

    On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 16:57:28 GMT, "GwG"
    <> wrote:


    >I have received 3 calls through Sipgate today, on 2 of them my phone
    >rang, and the callers number was displayed, but when I picked up the
    >phone I just got silence, so they gave up and rang me on my mobile, the
    >third call got through without problem. I have been happy with Sipgate
    >up until now, but this is getting disconcerting.
    >

    Until Sipgate start charging for their services and geographical
    numbers like other voip providers do you never will see any
    improvement in the service they provide .It just would not be
    economically viable for them to increase staffing levels to ensure
    continuity of service 24/7 seeing that they are giving for free what
    other providers are charging for, even if it is only a small amount
    pr customer that is being charged pr month .
    , Feb 22, 2006
    #15
  16. Andrew (G0RVM)

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "GwG" <> wrote in message
    news:YJ0Lf.43552$

    [snip]

    > I have received 3 calls through Sipgate today, on 2 of
    > them my phone rang, and the callers number was displayed,
    > but when I picked up the phone I just got silence, so
    > they gave up and rang me on my mobile, the third call got
    > through without problem. I have been happy with Sipgate
    > up until now, but this is getting disconcerting.


    From what I can gather, some of the recent problems have been down to the
    sheer number of users. I am told they are adding more servers to cope with
    the workload but it may take a few days for them to come on line.

    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, Feb 22, 2006
    #16
  17. Andrew (G0RVM)

    Jono Guest

    wrote:

    > On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 16:57:28 GMT, "GwG"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I have received 3 calls through Sipgate today, on 2 of them my phone
    >>rang, and the callers number was displayed, but when I picked up the
    >>phone I just got silence, so they gave up and rang me on my mobile, the
    >>third call got through without problem. I have been happy with Sipgate
    >>up until now, but this is getting disconcerting.
    >>

    > Until Sipgate start charging for their services and geographical
    > numbers like other voip providers do you never will see any
    > improvement in the service they provide .It just would not be
    > economically viable for them to increase staffing levels to ensure
    > continuity of service 24/7 seeing that they are giving for free what
    > other providers are charging for, even if it is only a small amount
    > pr customer that is being charged pr month .


    I think that's a very sensible comment you've made - quite unexpected.

    I agree entirely with you that Sipgate provide an unrivalled, free service.
    Jono, Feb 22, 2006
    #17
  18. Andrew (G0RVM)

    Guest

    On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:25:25 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >
    >"GwG" <> wrote in message
    >news:YJ0Lf.43552$
    >
    >[snip]
    >
    >> I have received 3 calls through Sipgate today, on 2 of
    >> them my phone rang, and the callers number was displayed,
    >> but when I picked up the phone I just got silence, so
    >> they gave up and rang me on my mobile, the third call got
    >> through without problem. I have been happy with Sipgate
    >> up until now, but this is getting disconcerting.

    >
    >From what I can gather, some of the recent problems have been down to the
    >sheer number of users. I am told they are adding more servers to cope with
    >the workload but it may take a few days for them to come on line.

    How stupid and just like many companies these days that just grab
    customers allow them to set up their hardware or whatever knowing full
    well that they do not have the means of supporting them .
    , Feb 22, 2006
    #18
  19. Andrew (G0RVM)

    Guest

    On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:56:06 GMT, Jono <> wrote:


    >I think that's a very sensible comment you've made - quite unexpected.
    >I agree entirely with you that Sipgate provide an unrivalled, free service.

    Its only commonsense Jono if Tesco and Sainsburys where to start
    allowing customers to just go in the stores and fill up their bags
    without making any charge they would soon go down the pan .
    , Feb 22, 2006
    #19
  20. <> wrote...

    > Until Sipgate start charging for their services and geographical
    > numbers like other voip providers do you never will see any
    > improvement in the service they provide.


    Well said that man! Sipgate is a free service, I feel that I am getting
    exactly what I am paying for :) Sipgate has degraded markedly within the
    past week or so, I'd put usability at around 50 - 60% with numerous failed
    connects and dropped/silent calls. If their business model is customer churn
    then fine by me. They've had £10 off me as a trial, they'll get no more at
    their current service level.

    Keith L
    Keith Lawrence, Feb 23, 2006
    #20
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