Sipgate codecs

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by googlegroups@wilsonhughes.co.uk, May 13, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Hi

    I am using a Dreytek Vigor 2600VG with two SIP providers. Sipgate and
    Sipdiscount. I experience a lot of lost packets on my ADSL connection
    (always have done and there's nothing that can be done about it). The
    lost packets obviously cause some interruption and disconnections of
    VOIP. At G.711A lost packets are obvious and at G.729A/B they are a
    lot less obvious.

    I have switched my router to G.729A/B (packet size 10ms) and the
    Sipdiscount account works fine. However, each time a Sipgate call is
    connected, the router switches to G.711A for the duration of the call.
    It's as if Sipgate forces G.711A.

    I am trying to find out a work around for this problem as I am
    reluctant to change my router and everyone knows my Sipgate number.

    Anyway for force G.729A/B with Sipgate?

    Chris
    , May 13, 2006
    #1
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  2. Mark Guest

    wrote:
    > Hi
    >
    > I am using a Dreytek Vigor 2600VG with two SIP providers. Sipgate and
    > Sipdiscount. I experience a lot of lost packets on my ADSL connection
    > (always have done and there's nothing that can be done about it). The
    > lost packets obviously cause some interruption and disconnections of
    > VOIP. At G.711A lost packets are obvious and at G.729A/B they are a
    > lot less obvious.
    >
    > I have switched my router to G.729A/B (packet size 10ms) and the
    > Sipdiscount account works fine. However, each time a Sipgate call is
    > connected, the router switches to G.711A for the duration of the call.
    > It's as if Sipgate forces G.711A.
    >
    > I am trying to find out a work around for this problem as I am
    > reluctant to change my router and everyone knows my Sipgate number.
    >
    > Anyway for force G.729A/B with Sipgate?
    >
    > Chris
    >

    I Use G.711u without any problems
    Mark, May 13, 2006
    #2
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  3. Sean Guest

    I'm not sure if they support it.

    I use gsm myself, but i dont think many hardware devices support this..
    I use asterisk
    Sean, May 13, 2006
    #3
  4. wrote:
    > Hi
    >
    > I am using a Dreytek Vigor 2600VG with two SIP providers. Sipgate and
    > Sipdiscount. I experience a lot of lost packets on my ADSL connection
    > (always have done and there's nothing that can be done about it).


    Sounds strange, if there was nothing that could be done about it, I'd
    move to cable. (or in my case to ADSL).

    > The
    > lost packets obviously cause some interruption and disconnections of
    > VOIP. At G.711A lost packets are obvious and at G.729A/B they are a
    > lot less obvious.
    >
    > I have switched my router to G.729A/B (packet size 10ms)


    With a 10ms packet size, the packet overhead will be a greater size than
    the audio data contained on G.729A/B.

    > and the
    > Sipdiscount account works fine. However, each time a Sipgate call is
    > connected, the router switches to G.711A for the duration of the call.
    > It's as if Sipgate forces G.711A.
    >

    Don't offer it the choice, (assuming you can do this with a 2600VG).
    Sipgate do support G.729a, but have 711a, 711u at the start in the
    preference order. If your router only offers 729a, then that's what it
    will connect at.

    > I am trying to find out a work around for this problem as I am
    > reluctant to change my router and everyone knows my Sipgate number.
    >
    > Anyway for force G.729A/B with Sipgate?
    >

    As with all providers (that I've played with), this needs to be done
    with the router.

    > Chris
    >
    Thomas Kenyon, May 13, 2006
    #4
  5. Alex Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi
    >
    > I am using a Dreytek Vigor 2600VG with two SIP providers. Sipgate and
    > Sipdiscount. I experience a lot of lost packets on my ADSL connection
    > (always have done and there's nothing that can be done about it). The
    > lost packets obviously cause some interruption and disconnections of
    > VOIP. At G.711A lost packets are obvious and at G.729A/B they are a
    > lot less obvious.
    >
    > I have switched my router to G.729A/B (packet size 10ms) and the
    > Sipdiscount account works fine. However, each time a Sipgate call is
    > connected, the router switches to G.711A for the duration of the call.
    > It's as if Sipgate forces G.711A.
    >
    > I am trying to find out a work around for this problem as I am
    > reluctant to change my router and everyone knows my Sipgate number.
    >
    > Anyway for force G.729A/B with Sipgate?
    >
    > Chris
    >


    I have a 2900vg, basically the same router but for cable. Also having the
    same problems (but me wanting to use g729 is for bandwidth purposes rather
    then packet loss)- no matter what codec I tell it to use, it seems to prefer
    to use what sipgate tell it to. I have a grandstream ata aswell and it does
    the same. I was planning on asking in the draytek support forum as I think
    the device has to be told to insist on using the codec you specify and not
    whichever one the provider prefers.

    Alex
    Alex, May 13, 2006
    #5
  6. RH Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi
    >
    > I am using a Dreytek Vigor 2600VG with two SIP providers. Sipgate and
    > Sipdiscount. I experience a lot of lost packets on my ADSL connection
    > (always have done and there's nothing that can be done about it). The
    > lost packets obviously cause some interruption and disconnections of
    > VOIP. At G.711A lost packets are obvious and at G.729A/B they are a
    > lot less obvious.
    >
    > I have switched my router to G.729A/B (packet size 10ms) and the
    > Sipdiscount account works fine. However, each time a Sipgate call is
    > connected, the router switches to G.711A for the duration of the call.
    > It's as if Sipgate forces G.711A.
    >
    > I am trying to find out a work around for this problem as I am
    > reluctant to change my router and everyone knows my Sipgate number.
    >
    > Anyway for force G.729A/B with Sipgate?


    I think you will find you can't, You can only use a codec if it is supported
    by both ends, I am pretty sure SIPGate don't support G729
    where as Sipdiscount does.
    The reason I am guessing is licensing, G711 is an open free codec, G729 is
    not and requires a license for each channel, this is why
    Asterisk and another of free softphones don't offer G729 codec foc. my guess
    is Sipgate calculated it was cheaper to have higher bandwidth bills of
    G711 than buy the required licenses
    RH, May 13, 2006
    #6
  7. RH wrote:
    > I think you will find you can't, You can only use a codec if it is supported
    > by both ends, I am pretty sure SIPGate don't support G729
    > where as Sipdiscount does.


    Sipgate *do* definately support G.729, there was a small problem for a
    short time after they changed the server, but it's been working ever since.
    Thomas Kenyon, May 13, 2006
    #7
  8. Alex Guest

    "RH" <> wrote in message
    news:e44ocl$98j$1$...
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...


    >
    > I think you will find you can't, You can only use a codec if it is
    > supported
    > by both ends, I am pretty sure SIPGate don't support G729
    > where as Sipdiscount does.
    > The reason I am guessing is licensing, G711 is an open free codec, G729 is
    > not and requires a license for each channel, this is why
    > Asterisk and another of free softphones don't offer G729 codec foc. my
    > guess
    > is Sipgate calculated it was cheaper to have higher bandwidth bills of
    > G711 than buy the required licenses
    >
    >


    That would sound like a fair enough reason, but it seems sipgate have dug
    into their pockets and paid for some licensing, from the help section of
    their website:

    10. Which codecs and signaling protocols does sipgate support? sipgate uses
    and supports the following codecs:


    a.. G.729


    a.. G.711


    a.. iLBC


    a.. GSM


    a.. G726

    It seems like they prefer you to use g711, which is why both my devices seem
    to switch to it... which then gets me calls breaking up as I've not got
    enough uploading bandwidth for that and pc usage!
    Alex, May 13, 2006
    #8
  9. Alex wrote:
    >
    > It seems like they prefer you to use g711, which is why both my devices seem
    > to switch to it... which then gets me calls breaking up as I've not got
    > enough uploading bandwidth for that and pc usage!
    >
    >


    Sadly, in the negotiaion, they're probably getting priority (not
    unreasonably).

    If your router can be made to not advertise that it supports other
    codecs, you should be fine.
    Thomas Kenyon, May 13, 2006
    #9
  10. Guest

    On 13 May 2006 04:56:31 -0700, ""
    <> wrote:

    >I experience a lot of lost packets on my ADSL connection
    >(always have done and there's nothing that can be done about it).


    I doubt it. I started seeing lost packets, and my ADSL supplier
    Eclipse tried to make out that it was at my end, and would do nothing
    to investigate. So I switched to Zen. No more lost packets: the
    problem was gone immediately, and all I'd changed was the username and
    password in the modem/router.

    Lost packets could be very bad on VOIP - what if that packet was
    telling the call to hang up?
    , May 13, 2006
    #10
  11. On Sat, 13 May 2006 21:58:31 +0100, wrote:

    >On 13 May 2006 04:56:31 -0700, ""
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>I experience a lot of lost packets on my ADSL connection
    >>(always have done and there's nothing that can be done about it).

    >
    >I doubt it. I started seeing lost packets, and my ADSL supplier
    >Eclipse tried to make out that it was at my end, and would do nothing
    >to investigate. So I switched to Zen. No more lost packets: the
    >problem was gone immediately, and all I'd changed was the username and
    >password in the modem/router.
    >
    >Lost packets could be very bad on VOIP - what if that packet was
    >telling the call to hang up?


    I would be repeated due to lack of an ack.
    Darren J Longhorn, May 13, 2006
    #11
  12. Chris Blunt Guest

    On Sat, 13 May 2006 21:58:31 +0100, wrote:

    >On 13 May 2006 04:56:31 -0700, ""
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>I experience a lot of lost packets on my ADSL connection
    >>(always have done and there's nothing that can be done about it).

    >
    >I doubt it. I started seeing lost packets, and my ADSL supplier
    >Eclipse tried to make out that it was at my end, and would do nothing
    >to investigate. So I switched to Zen. No more lost packets: the
    >problem was gone immediately, and all I'd changed was the username and
    >password in the modem/router.
    >
    >Lost packets could be very bad on VOIP - what if that packet was
    >telling the call to hang up?


    Wouldn't the protocol pick that up within a fairly short period of
    time and resend the instruction once it had realised the request
    hadn't been acknowledged?

    Chris
    Chris Blunt, May 13, 2006
    #12
  13. Guest

    It's a sad fact around here that due to the length of our aging
    telephone lines, uncorrected blocks on ADSL are the norm. Uncorrected
    blocks do not usually pose a problem but where you have a lot in
    sequence you do suffer lost packets of time sensitive data. If you are
    interested my Syslog shows around two million uncorrected blocks a day.
    On a good day! In terms of packets lost, it's about 1% of packets
    recieved. Unnoticable at G.729A/B but intrusive at G.711A.

    Do you think it's just because the Vigor's implementation of G.711A is
    poor?

    Anyone else have experience of Rx losts?

    Chris
    , May 14, 2006
    #13
  14. Guest

    On 14 May 2006 01:26:23 -0700, ""
    <> wrote:

    >It's a sad fact around here that due to the length of our aging
    >telephone lines, uncorrected blocks on ADSL are the norm. Uncorrected
    >blocks do not usually pose a problem but where you have a lot in
    >sequence you do suffer lost packets of time sensitive data. If you are
    >interested my Syslog shows around two million uncorrected blocks a day.
    > On a good day! In terms of packets lost, it's about 1% of packets
    >recieved. Unnoticable at G.729A/B but intrusive at G.711A.


    1% seems a huge percentage to me. What is the SNR margin on your
    connection?

    What you need to do is to start out by finding how many packets are
    being lost. I suggest you open an account at l8nc.com and monitor your
    ADSL connection for a while (the Vigor needs to be set to respond to
    pings from the internet, of course)

    It's probably a good idea to run pathping to some suitable destination
    to see where they are being lost.
    , May 14, 2006
    #14
  15. On 14 May 2006 01:26:23 -0700, ""
    <> wrote:

    > On a good day! In terms of packets lost, it's about 1% of packets
    >recieved. Unnoticable at G.729A/B but intrusive at G.711A.


    I don't see why that should always be the case?
    Darren J Longhorn, May 14, 2006
    #15
  16. alex Guest

    wrote:
    > On 14 May 2006 01:26:23 -0700, ""
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>It's a sad fact around here that due to the length of our aging
    >>telephone lines, uncorrected blocks on ADSL are the norm. Uncorrected
    >>blocks do not usually pose a problem but where you have a lot in
    >>sequence you do suffer lost packets of time sensitive data. If you are
    >>interested my Syslog shows around two million uncorrected blocks a day.
    >>On a good day! In terms of packets lost, it's about 1% of packets
    >>recieved. Unnoticable at G.729A/B but intrusive at G.711A.

    >
    >
    > 1% seems a huge percentage to me. What is the SNR margin on your
    > connection?
    >
    > What you need to do is to start out by finding how many packets are
    > being lost. I suggest you open an account at l8nc.com and monitor your


    Wooo! Yes, everyone talk about l8nc </plug>

    > ADSL connection for a while (the Vigor needs to be set to respond to
    > pings from the internet, of course)


    After much messing around I've got MRTG monitoring various outputs from
    my Vigor 2800 (www.letmethink.co.uk/stats). The 'ATM errors (since link
    up)' graph is accurate but I'm using the perhour option on the 'ATM
    errors graph' so divide by 12 and call the y-axis 'Errored blocks per 5
    minutes'. It shows some time of day variation in CRC errors but none of
    it is significant enough to cause any packet loss
    (http://www.l8nc.com/graph.php?jid=82b9a9a9d765278f586971d485ab11eb).


    > It's probably a good idea to run pathping to some suitable destination
    > to see where they are being lost.


    WinMTR and MTR are pretty good at this sort of thing.

    Alex
    alex, May 14, 2006
    #16
  17. Guest

    On Sun, 14 May 2006 22:21:40 +0100, alex <> wrote:

    >It shows some time of day variation in CRC errors but none of
    >it is significant enough to cause any packet loss


    I can't see any evidence of any packet loss at all.
    , May 15, 2006
    #17
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