Sigma SD14 samples

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Alfred Molon, Feb 16, 2007.

  1. Alfred Molon

    Alfred Molon Guest

    Alfred Molon, Feb 16, 2007
    #1
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  2. Alfred Molon

    Guest

    On Feb 17, 4:44 am, Alfred Molon <> wrote:
    > http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/


    What did you think, Alfred?

    My thoughts are:
    - the usual nice, but only apparent, 'per-pixel' sharpness - note how
    very thin lines are accompanied by moire-like effects, and often are
    more jaggies than detail.. Eg here's a tiny cropped area from one of
    them:

    http://www.marktphoto.com/sd14-po-002-cropped.jpg

    Eeurgh.

    Admittedly this is only going to be visible on a large print, but
    *they* are claiming it has the equivalent of 14Mp (heheh), so this
    sort of thing is an issue imo. Can't have it both ways.

    - the skin tones are a little off in my opinion, as many Foveon images
    seem to be. They show that odd tinge of yellow/orange in areas - eg
    check the shadow areas of the small girl's face.

    Maybe it's the lighting, and I concede I have a slight r-g colour
    perception issue, but the numbers seem to back up my sense.. Others
    with more accurately tuned eyes may wish to contribute. (O;

    But me, I think the whole Sigma/Foveon thing is too little, too late,
    and too expensive. If they could untwist the colours a little, get
    better high ISO performance, provide genuine resolution without the
    moire and jaggies, and get production costs down.......... it would be
    a winner!!!
     
    , Feb 17, 2007
    #2
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  3. Alfred Molon

    Guest

    On Feb 17, 11:29 am, wrote:
    > - the skin tones are a little off in my opinion, as many Foveon images
    > seem to be. They show that odd tinge of yellow/orange in areas - eg
    > check the shadow areas of the small girl's face.


    And before anyone states the obvious, yes, I can see the coloured
    scarf around the girl's neck - but this effect is not constrained to
    *those* shadows... And isn't it an interesting coincidence that they
    would use such a scarf - perhaps they were expecting the criticism and
    wanted a nice excuse? Oh, I'm such a cynic. (O:
     
    , Feb 17, 2007
    #3
  4. Alfred Molon

    frederick Guest

    frederick, Feb 17, 2007
    #4
  5. Well, it looks like Sigma finally got the bugs worked out. It is a shame
    that after all of that the images aren't any better than the other brands.
    Add to that that the thing will only use Sigma lenses and you have a real
    dog.

    ljc


    "Alfred Molon" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/
    >
    > --
    >
    > Alfred Molon
    > ------------------------------
    > Olympus 50X0, 7070, 8080, E300, E330, E400 and E500 forum at
    > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    > http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
     
    Little Juice Coupe, Feb 17, 2007
    #5
  6. Randall Ainsworth, Feb 17, 2007
    #6
  7. "Randall Ainsworth" <> wrote in message
    news:160220072003282431%...
    > In article <>, Alfred
    > Molon <> wrote:
    >
    >> http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/

    >
    > I'll continue to pass on all Sigma-branded products.


    You know you really want an SD14 - have you placed your order yet?
     
    Peter A. Stavrakoglou, Feb 17, 2007
    #7
  8. In article <aIvBh.216$>, Peter A. Stavrakoglou
    <> wrote:

    > You know you really want an SD14 - have you placed your order yet?


    You know that the "14" in the model number is the number of dollars
    that it's worth?
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Feb 17, 2007
    #8
  9. Alfred Molon

    nospam Guest

    In article <1171680240.426128@ftpsrv1>, frederick <> wrote:

    > Alfred Molon wrote:
    > > http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/
    > >

    > If they're going to pp photos, they should do a better job of selecting
    > / feathering selection to make it less obvious:
    >
    > http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/still-life/img/sd14-sl-002.jpg


    i thought these were supposed to showcase *the camera* and not how
    skilled someone is with photoshop. do they really expect people to not
    notice?

    not that it matters - these samples are *awful*.

    there are blown highlights, blurry corners, weird yellow or bluish
    tints, blotchy green spots, alias artifacting (love that variable
    thickness hair), plenty of chromatic aberration and as mentioned,
    extensive post-processing manipulation.

    and this is supposed to be the best it can do??
     
    nospam, Feb 17, 2007
    #9
  10. Alfred Molon

    Mark² Guest

    Mark², Feb 17, 2007
    #10
  11. Alfred Molon

    embee Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Feb 17, 4:44 am, Alfred Molon <> wrote:
    >> http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/

    >
    > What did you think, Alfred?
    >
    >
    > - the skin tones are a little off in my opinion, as many Foveon images
    > seem to be. They show that odd tinge of yellow/orange in areas - eg
    > check the shadow areas of the small girl's face.
    >
    > Maybe it's the lighting, and I concede I have a slight r-g colour
    > perception issue, but the numbers seem to back up my sense.. Others
    > with more accurately tuned eyes may wish to contribute. (O;
    >


    I'm a Canon 1DMkII user, but I have no prejudices against Sigma. I too
    noticed something "off" with the young girl's skin tones - they are
    beautiful in places, ugly in others. Then I looked at the picture of the
    Asian (or possibly South American?) girl - her skin tones are very nice
    indeed. I know how problematic these tones can be (my wife is Asian) to get
    right, and the Sigma seems to do well. Has anybody else found the Foveon
    performs well on Asian tones, less well on Caucasian?
     
    embee, Feb 17, 2007
    #11
  12. Alfred Molon

    Yoshi Guest

    Yoshi, Feb 17, 2007
    #12
  13. In article <160220072152046090%>, nospam
    <> wrote:

    > and this is supposed to be the best it can do??


    Remember, it's a Sigma.
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Feb 17, 2007
    #13
  14. In article <er6m0c$bjs$>, embee
    <> wrote:

    > I'm a Canon 1DMkII user, but I have no prejudices against Sigma. I too
    > noticed something "off" with the young girl's skin tones - they are
    > beautiful in places, ugly in others. Then I looked at the picture of the
    > Asian (or possibly South American?) girl - her skin tones are very nice
    > indeed. I know how problematic these tones can be (my wife is Asian) to get
    > right, and the Sigma seems to do well. Has anybody else found the Foveon
    > performs well on Asian tones, less well on Caucasian?


    Sigmas excel with Homer Simpson skin tones.
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Feb 17, 2007
    #14
  15. In article <45d70ed3$0$28093$>, Yoshi
    <> wrote:

    > By my calculation 2460 x 1760 yields a 4.3 MP image. In a camera that
    > streets for about $1600, 4.3 MP seems a bit underwhelming.


    You have to use Sigma math...multiply times three.
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Feb 17, 2007
    #15
  16. Alfred Molon

    Skip Guest

    "nospam" <> wrote in message
    news:160220072152046090%...
    > In article <1171680240.426128@ftpsrv1>, frederick <> wrote:
    >
    >> Alfred Molon wrote:
    >> > http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/
    >> >

    >> If they're going to pp photos, they should do a better job of selecting
    >> / feathering selection to make it less obvious:
    >>
    >> http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/still-life/img/sd14-sl-002.jpg

    >
    > i thought these were supposed to showcase *the camera* and not how
    > skilled someone is with photoshop. do they really expect people to not
    > notice?
    >
    > not that it matters - these samples are *awful*.
    >
    > there are blown highlights, blurry corners, weird yellow or bluish
    > tints, blotchy green spots, alias artifacting (love that variable
    > thickness hair), plenty of chromatic aberration and as mentioned,
    > extensive post-processing manipulation.
    >
    > and this is supposed to be the best it can do??


    Remember when the Canon 5D came out? There is a shot on the samples page of
    a cabin in a meadow with a mountain behind it. At first glance, it is a
    nice enough shot, but on closer inspection, flaws start to turn up, like
    poor focus, soft corners, other problems. The running comment on this and
    other forums was pretty much like the one you just offered, "This is
    supposed to be the best it can do?" The sample shots seem to be selected by
    marketing types with little or no understanding of what photographers are
    looking for in sample photos. Before I criticized the Sigma shots, I took
    this into consideration.
    That being said, those are some pretty poor images, all in all.

    --
    Skip Middleton
    www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
    www.pbase.com/skipm
     
    Skip, Feb 17, 2007
    #16
  17. In article <9yFBh.26813$>, Skip
    <> wrote:

    > Remember when the Canon 5D came out? There is a shot on the samples page of
    > a cabin in a meadow with a mountain behind it. At first glance, it is a
    > nice enough shot, but on closer inspection, flaws start to turn up, like
    > poor focus, soft corners, other problems. The running comment on this and
    > other forums was pretty much like the one you just offered, "This is
    > supposed to be the best it can do?" The sample shots seem to be selected by
    > marketing types with little or no understanding of what photographers are
    > looking for in sample photos. Before I criticized the Sigma shots, I took
    > this into consideration.
    > That being said, those are some pretty poor images, all in all.


    I think the "14" in the product name refers to the number of people who
    will waste their money on it.
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Feb 17, 2007
    #17
  18. Alfred Molon

    nospam Guest

    In article <9yFBh.26813$>, Skip
    <> wrote:

    > Remember when the Canon 5D came out? There is a shot on the samples page of
    > a cabin in a meadow with a mountain behind it. At first glance, it is a
    > nice enough shot, but on closer inspection, flaws start to turn up, like
    > poor focus, soft corners, other problems.


    this one?

    <http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/eos5d/html/eos5d_sample_2e.html>

    it does have some problems, but overall, it is still quite good.

    > The running comment on this and
    > other forums was pretty much like the one you just offered, "This is
    > supposed to be the best it can do?" The sample shots seem to be selected by
    > marketing types with little or no understanding of what photographers are
    > looking for in sample photos. Before I criticized the Sigma shots, I took
    > this into consideration.
    > That being said, those are some pretty poor images, all in all.


    i don't think anyone is realistically expecting perfection from any
    camera - virtually every image will have *some* kind of flaw. it is
    just that sigma has built *very* high expectations for this camera and
    these 'samples' fail to live up to that hype.

    for instance, a cheap cellphone camera could probably do better than
    this:

    <http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/snap/img/sd14-sn-001.jpg>

    and then there's the picture of the orange which has what appears to be
    the worst photoshop hack job i've seen in quite a while. not only is
    the masking awful, but there are numerous spots that were missed when
    the background was painted solid black, presumably to hide all of the
    noise and artifacts. this isn't a sample at all - it's a demonstration
    of someone's photoshop skills (or lack thereof). calling it a sample
    from the camera is rather disingenuous.

    <http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/still-life/img/sd14-sl-001.jpg>
     
    nospam, Feb 18, 2007
    #18
  19. Alfred Molon

    dj_nme Guest

    nospam wrote:
    <snip>
    > for instance, a cheap cellphone camera could probably do better than
    > this:
    >
    > <http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/snap/img/sd14-sn-001.jpg>


    It looks like some-one tried to be too artsy with this sample shot.
    A cellphone camera probably couldn't do the shallow DoF shown in this
    image (the face of the postman is in perfect focus, everthing else is
    motion blurred and progressively OoF blurred), but if you don't look at
    the full sized image it looks like the whole image is just blur.

    > and then there's the picture of the orange which has what appears to be
    > the worst photoshop hack job i've seen in quite a while. not only is
    > the masking awful, but there are numerous spots that were missed when
    > the background was painted solid black, presumably to hide all of the
    > noise and artifacts. this isn't a sample at all - it's a demonstration
    > of someone's photoshop skills (or lack thereof). calling it a sample
    > from the camera is rather disingenuous.
    >
    > <http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/still-life/img/sd14-sl-001.jpg>


    The background does look suspiciously even and black, but there are no
    other halos or obviously blocked out areas in this image.
    I think you are mentaly creating faults where none exist.
    This was the same when the SD9 came out, whining about skin-tones
    (obviously by people who'd never seen a person with a suntan) that realy
    didn't hold up to an inspection of the actual pictures.
     
    dj_nme, Feb 18, 2007
    #19
  20. Alfred Molon

    frederick Guest

    dj_nme wrote:
    > nospam wrote:
    > <snip>
    >> for instance, a cheap cellphone camera could probably do better than
    >> this:
    >>
    >> <http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/snap/img/sd14-sn-001.jpg>

    >
    > It looks like some-one tried to be too artsy with this sample shot.
    > A cellphone camera probably couldn't do the shallow DoF shown in this
    > image (the face of the postman is in perfect focus, everthing else is
    > motion blurred and progressively OoF blurred), but if you don't look at
    > the full sized image it looks like the whole image is just blur.
    >
    >> and then there's the picture of the orange which has what appears to be
    >> the worst photoshop hack job i've seen in quite a while. not only is
    >> the masking awful, but there are numerous spots that were missed when
    >> the background was painted solid black, presumably to hide all of the
    >> noise and artifacts. this isn't a sample at all - it's a demonstration
    >> of someone's photoshop skills (or lack thereof). calling it a sample
    >> from the camera is rather disingenuous.
    >>
    >> <http://www.sigma-sd14.com/sample-photo/still-life/img/sd14-sl-001.jpg>

    >
    > The background does look suspiciously even and black, but there are no
    > other halos or obviously blocked out areas in this image.
    > I think you are mentaly creating faults where none exist.
    > This was the same when the SD9 came out, whining about skin-tones
    > (obviously by people who'd never seen a person with a suntan) that realy
    > didn't hold up to an inspection of the actual pictures.


    You don't look hard enough. Even simple adjustment of levels exposes
    the heavy-handed sloppy post-processing of the image.
    http://i12.tinypic.com/4dxjl2e.jpg

    How bad would the image be without this pp? I don't know - because they
    don't show it to us. That is (IMO) dishonest - if these are supposed to
    be representative of ex-camera results.
     
    frederick, Feb 18, 2007
    #20
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