Sig maas Dinosour

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by m Ransley, May 18, 2004.

  1. m Ransley

    m Ransley Guest

    I ve looked at alot of the reviews and they say Sigma is no better
    than a 6mp Dslr such as Canon or Nikon, and in features alot Worse.

    Till Sigma puts out a 6-8-11 mp equal to 12-16 or 22 mp camera , the
    consenus is no Suckma Sigma . And it must offer Canon- Nikon lense
    mounts.

    Sigma is lost unless it leads with pixels and features

    So Im buying Nikon or Canon tomorrow
     
    m Ransley, May 18, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. m Ransley

    John Tucker Guest

    m Ransley wrote:
    > I ve looked at alot of the reviews and they say Sigma is no better
    > than a 6mp Dslr such as Canon or Nikon, and in features alot Worse.
    >
    > Till Sigma puts out a 6-8-11 mp equal to 12-16 or 22 mp camera ,
    > the consenus is no Suckma Sigma . And it must offer Canon- Nikon
    > lense mounts.
    >
    > Sigma is lost unless it leads with pixels and features
    >
    > So Im buying Nikon or Canon tomorrow


    From the reviews that I've read, your choice is a wise one.

    John
     
    John Tucker, May 18, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. (m Ransley) wrote in message news:<>...
    > I ve looked at alot of the reviews and they say Sigma is no better
    > than a 6mp Dslr such as Canon or Nikon, and in features alot Worse.


    Just the oppostie, in features it drawfs the 6MP monochrome DSLRs.
    And especially in ergonomics, where it is the best DSLR made.

    > Till Sigma puts out a 6-8-11 mp equal to 12-16 or 22 mp camera , the
    > consenus is no Suckma Sigma . And it must offer Canon- Nikon lense
    > mounts.


    Sigma has the only color sensor, all the other DSLRs list monochrome
    MPs only, they sacrifice exactly 75% of their optical resolution to
    interpolate color(color is guessed by combining 4 of their monocrome
    pixels by using little plastic colored filters).
     
    Georgette Preddy, May 18, 2004
    #3
  4. Georgette Preddy wrote:
    > (m Ransley) wrote in message news:<>...
    >
    >>I ve looked at alot of the reviews and they say Sigma is no better
    >>than a 6mp Dslr such as Canon or Nikon, and in features alot Worse.

    >
    > Just the oppostie, in features it drawfs the 6MP DSLRs.


    Yes, like < 2 fps (Sigma), 3+ fps (others)
    or how about 3.43 MP (Sigma), 6+ MP (others)
    no to mention 1 AF sensor (Sigma), 5+ AF sensors (others)
    And many, many more...

    > And especially in ergonomics, where it is the best DSLR made.


    It is fairly big, so if you have big hands it would probably feel quite
    nice. If, OTOH, you have small hands, I bet it's a pain to handle.

    >>Till Sigma puts out a 6-8-11 mp equal to 12-16 or 22 mp camera , the
    >>consenus is no Suckma Sigma . And it must offer Canon- Nikon lense
    >>mounts.

    >
    > Sigma has the only color sensor, all the other DSLRs list monochrome
    > MPs only


    How is sensing red light, green light and blue light a monochrome
    sensor? In that case, so is the foveon, since it senses (what it thinks
    to be) monochrome light in three layers, as opposed to spatial locations.

    > they sacrifice exactly 75% of their optical resolution to
    > interpolate color


    They sacrifice exactly 0% of any resolution. Just as a remainder to you,
    resolution = spatial sensors / length unit, eg pixels/mm. Those pixels
    won't go nowhere, or are you suggesting that 75% of the sensing elements
    magically fall off every time the shutter is depressed?

    > (color is guessed by combining 4 of their monocrome
    > pixels by using little plastic colored filters).


    As opposed to guessing the color by combining the three monochrome
    pixels at one spatial location on the foveon. It's fairly obvious that
    you'll get better results from using four pixels instead of three for
    the basis of your guesswork, especially given the fact that the human
    eye is so much more sensitive to errors in luminance than chrominance.

    -JP
     
    Jukka-Pekka Suominen, May 18, 2004
    #4
  5. m Ransley

    m Ransley Guest

    Well george P the reviews say otherwise , I dont care about sensors and
    chips its results you know, End Product.
     
    m Ransley, May 18, 2004
    #5
  6. m Ransley

    Mick Sterbs Guest

    "Georgette Preddy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Sigma has the only color sensor, all the other DSLRs list monochrome
    > MPs only, they sacrifice exactly 75% of their optical resolution to
    > interpolate color(color is guessed by combining 4 of their monocrome
    > pixels by using little plastic colored filters).


    Asshole
     
    Mick Sterbs, May 18, 2004
    #6
  7. "Georgette Preddy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    SNIP
    > Sigma has the only color sensor, all the other DSLRs list monochrome
    > MPs only, they sacrifice exactly 75% of their optical resolution to
    > interpolate color(color is guessed by combining 4 of their monocrome
    > pixels by using little plastic colored filters).


    Completely wrong, again.

    You are only making this up for people to react. You crave for attention,
    and spreading lies is the only way to get people to talk to you. Pathetic.

    Bart
     
    Bart van der Wolf, May 18, 2004
    #7
  8. m Ransley

    gsum Guest

    There is hope though. George hasn't been seen much on this NG
    recently and he seemed pretty steamed up last week. Perhaps we have
    educated him and he's bought a Nikon or Canon?


    Graham


    "Bart van der Wolf" <> wrote in message
    news:40a9ff02$0$21804$4all.nl...
    >
    > "Georgette Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > SNIP
    > > Sigma has the only color sensor, all the other DSLRs list monochrome
    > > MPs only, they sacrifice exactly 75% of their optical resolution to
    > > interpolate color(color is guessed by combining 4 of their monocrome
    > > pixels by using little plastic colored filters).

    >
    > Completely wrong, again.
    >
    > You are only making this up for people to react. You crave for attention,
    > and spreading lies is the only way to get people to talk to you. Pathetic.
    >
    > Bart
    >
     
    gsum, May 18, 2004
    #8
  9. m Ransley

    Larry Guest

    In article <>, says...
    > > Sigma has the only color sensor, all the other DSLRs list monochrome
    > > MPs only, they sacrifice exactly 75% of their optical resolution to
    > > interpolate color(color is guessed by combining 4 of their monocrome
    > > pixels by using little plastic colored filters).

    >



    George you are a fucking moron.

    They do not add four pixels together to get a pixel. 4=1 NOT!

    The Bayer system COMPARES the 4 pixels to figure out the color of EACH of the
    four...There is a HUGE difference between adding and comparing! Look the two
    words up in the dictionary (if you can read one. The 4 pixels STILL remain 4
    pixels.

    In the final picture each pixel is still there with all the chrominance data
    it collected AND the color (which was interpolated) ADDED to the pixels.

    All in all (so far) its a superior system to using fewer pixels and layering
    the colors. Foveon was(is) a good idea that didn't work.

    Learn it
    Live with it



    --
    Larry Lynch
    Mystic, Ct.
     
    Larry, May 18, 2004
    #9
  10. m Ransley

    Bryce Guest

    "Georgette Preddy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > (m Ransley) wrote in message

    news:<>...
    > > I ve looked at alot of the reviews and they say Sigma is no better
    > > than a 6mp Dslr such as Canon or Nikon, and in features alot Worse.

    >
    > Just the oppostie, in features it drawfs the 6MP monochrome DSLRs.
    > And especially in ergonomics, where it is the best DSLR made.
    >
    > > Till Sigma puts out a 6-8-11 mp equal to 12-16 or 22 mp camera , the
    > > consenus is no Suckma Sigma . And it must offer Canon- Nikon lense
    > > mounts.

    >
    > Sigma has the only color sensor, all the other DSLRs list monochrome
    > MPs only, they sacrifice exactly 75% of their optical resolution to
    > interpolate color(color is guessed by combining 4 of their monocrome
    > pixels by using little plastic colored filters).




    what a dipshit.
     
    Bryce, May 18, 2004
    #10
  11. m Ransley

    Guest

    In message <>,
    Larry <> wrote:

    >
    >George you are a fucking moron.
    >
    >They do not add four pixels together to get a pixel. 4=1 NOT!
    >
    >The Bayer system COMPARES the 4 pixels to figure out the color of EACH of the
    >four...There is a HUGE difference between adding and comparing! Look the two
    >words up in the dictionary (if you can read one. The 4 pixels STILL remain 4
    >pixels.


    There is no "4 pixels" used in any way to create the full bitmap with a
    Bayer CFA. Each pixel is the center of its own being, with the 8 other
    pixels surrounding it consulted for the final RGB output.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
     
    , May 18, 2004
    #11
  12. Jukka-Pekka Suominen <> wrote in message news:<40a9bc40$>...
    > Georgette Preddy wrote:
    > > (m Ransley) wrote in message news:<>...
    > >
    > >>I ve looked at alot of the reviews and they say Sigma is no better
    > >>than a 6mp Dslr such as Canon or Nikon, and in features alot Worse.

    > >
    > > Just the oppostie, in features it drawfs the 6MP DSLRs.

    >
    > Yes, like < 2 fps (Sigma), 3+ fps (others)


    It is 2.6 fps at 6MP-interpolated for 14 in the buffer.

    > or how about 3.43 MP (Sigma), 6+ MP (others)


    It outputs 13.7MP interpolated to the same degree as monochrome
    6MP-interpolated Bayer sensors.

    > no to mention 1 AF sensor (Sigma), 5+ AF sensors (others)


    1 is better, 5 is a recipe for missing 80% of your shots (with Canon's
    terrible AF more like 100%). You'll run any camera on the center one.

    > > And especially in ergonomics, where it is the best DSLR made.

    >
    > It is fairly big, so if you have big hands it would probably feel quite
    > nice. If, OTOH, you have small hands, I bet it's a pain to handle.


    It really is a dream to handle, perfectly balanced with tank-like
    construction. Bigger is better after you pass the size of a pocket.

    > > Sigma has the only color sensor, all the other DSLRs list monochrome
    > > MPs only

    >
    > How is sensing red light, green light and blue light a monochrome
    > sensor? \


    It interpolates the values of 4 monochrome sensors. Net resolution is
    exactly 1.5MP from a 6MP rating.

    > They sacrifice exactly 0% of any resolution.


    75% of the rated MPs in a Bayer camera (all digitals, minus Foveon)
    are completely and totally wasted. That is the problem when your
    sensor is only capable of sensing monocrome images and artifical color
    must be digitally simulated by placing a colored plastic mosiac in
    front of a purely B&W sensor rated at a purely B&W MP rating.
     
    George Preddy, May 19, 2004
    #12
  13. wrote in message news:<>...
    > In message <>,
    > Larry <> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >George you are a fucking moron.
    > >
    > >They do not add four pixels together to get a pixel. 4=1 NOT!
    > >
    > >The Bayer system COMPARES the 4 pixels to figure out the color of EACH of the
    > >four...There is a HUGE difference between adding and comparing! Look the two
    > >words up in the dictionary (if you can read one. The 4 pixels STILL remain 4
    > >pixels.

    >
    > There is no "4 pixels" used in any way to create the full bitmap with a
    > Bayer CFA. Each pixel is the center of its own being, with the 8 other
    > pixels surrounding it consulted for the final RGB output.


    Holy crap! You mean the same optical sensor data is used in 8
    different output pixels??? What a mess. You just figured out why
    Bayers are hopelesly blurry.

    You may never, ever, under any circumstance, use the optical data from
    one sensor in more than one output pixel, or the image is obviously
    going to be blurry, interpolated garbage. Does film transfer optical
    data from every place on the piece of film to 8 other places on that
    piece of film??? My goodness, no!!
     
    George Preddy, May 19, 2004
    #13
  14. "Bart van der Wolf" <> wrote in message news:<40a9ff02$0$21804$4all.nl>...
    > "Georgette Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > SNIP
    > > Sigma has the only color sensor, all the other DSLRs list monochrome
    > > MPs only, they sacrifice exactly 75% of their optical resolution to
    > > interpolate color(color is guessed by combining 4 of their monocrome
    > > pixels by using little plastic colored filters).

    >
    > Completely wrong, again.


    Bayer MPs are strictly monochrome. Foveon MPs are full color.

    You know it now that I told you, but you are sooo miserable with your
    digital camera that you wish ill will toward others.
     
    George Preddy, May 19, 2004
    #14
  15. "Bryce" <> wrote in message news:<y_rqc.51$>...
    > "Georgette Preddy" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > (m Ransley) wrote in message

    > news:<>...
    > > > I ve looked at alot of the reviews and they say Sigma is no better
    > > > than a 6mp Dslr such as Canon or Nikon, and in features alot Worse.

    > >
    > > Just the oppostie, in features it drawfs the 6MP monochrome DSLRs.
    > > And especially in ergonomics, where it is the best DSLR made.
    > >
    > > > Till Sigma puts out a 6-8-11 mp equal to 12-16 or 22 mp camera , the
    > > > consenus is no Suckma Sigma . And it must offer Canon- Nikon lense
    > > > mounts.

    > >
    > > Sigma has the only color sensor, all the other DSLRs list monochrome
    > > MPs only, they sacrifice exactly 75% of their optical resolution to
    > > interpolate color(color is guessed by combining 4 of their monocrome
    > > pixels by using little plastic colored filters).

    >
    > what a dipshit.


    I wouldn't call someone who bought a monochrome sensor thinking it was
    full color dumb, just uniformed. Obviously placing a plastic colored
    mosiac in front of a 6MP monochrome sensor doesn't make it full color
    at 6MP (only 1.5MP), and it makes the optical resolution far worse due
    to the additional optical layer and digital approximations and
    guessing required to simulate color.
     
    George Preddy, May 19, 2004
    #15
  16. m Ransley

    Guest

    In message <>,
    (George Preddy) wrote:

    > wrote in message news:<>...


    >> There is no "4 pixels" used in any way to create the full bitmap with a
    >> Bayer CFA. Each pixel is the center of its own being, with the 8 other
    >> pixels surrounding it consulted for the final RGB output.


    >Holy crap! You mean the same optical sensor data is used in 8
    >different output pixels???


    No, 9.

    >What a mess. You just figured out why
    >Bayers are hopelesly blurry.


    No, I didn't figure out any such thing.

    >You may never, ever, under any circumstance, use the optical data from
    >one sensor in more than one output pixel, or the image is obviously
    >going to be blurry, interpolated garbage.


    Actually, you *must* do so, or your data is garbage. Not in a
    demosaicing algorithm, but optically, with an anti-aliasing filter.

    The Bayer CFA requires a slightly stronger (wider) AA filter than what a
    Foveon, or some other stacked-RGB sensor with real RGB might need, to
    avoid color aliasing (moire).

    >Does film transfer optical
    >data from every place on the piece of film to 8 other places on that
    >piece of film??? My goodness, no!!


    Film offsets points of light, by random amounts in random directions.
    It also bleeds, so that one point of light can illuminate multiple
    grains.

    What it does *not* do is record light hitting only 30% of the area and
    then expand these small areas of sensitivity by a factor of 3.33x in the
    output, as the Foveon X3 does, without microlenses.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
     
    , May 19, 2004
    #16
  17. George Preddy wrote:
    > Jukka-Pekka Suominen <> wrote in message news:<40a9bc40$>...
    >
    >>Georgette Preddy wrote:
    >>
    >>> (m Ransley) wrote in message news:<>...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I ve looked at alot of the reviews and they say Sigma is no better
    >>>>than a 6mp Dslr such as Canon or Nikon, and in features alot Worse.
    >>>
    >>>Just the oppostie, in features it drawfs the 6MP DSLRs.

    >>
    >>Yes, like < 2 fps (Sigma), 3+ fps (others)

    >
    > It is 2.6 fps at 6MP-interpolated for 14 in the buffer.


    Not according to Sigma, it isn't.
    "Continuous shooting Speed HI: 1.9 fps (6 shots)"

    [snip ludicrous MP-claims]

    Sigma: 3.43 MP
    Others: 6+ MP

    >>no to mention 1 AF sensor (Sigma), 5+ AF sensors (others)

    >
    > 1 is better, 5 is a recipe for missing 80% of your shots (with Canon's
    > terrible AF more like 100%). You'll run any camera on the center one.


    Yawn. How do you compose for off-center shots with only one AF sensor
    when shooting moving subjects where focus lock is not an option? And no,
    I do not run my cameras on the center one. I'm using three on one
    camera, and the other one doesn't have any...

    > It really is a dream to handle, perfectly balanced with tank-like
    > construction. Bigger is better after you pass the size of a pocket.


    Like I said, only if your hands are big enough. As for "tank-like
    construction", I'm sceptical... Unless they built it out of titanium and
    kevlar, it seems a bit light (only 785 grams). That's about half the
    weight of the true tanks, F5 and 1DmkII (with batteries). Mind you,
    that's not necessarily a bad thing...

    >>>Sigma has the only color sensor, all the other DSLRs list monochrome
    >>>MPs only

    >>
    >>How is sensing red light, green light and blue light a monochrome
    >>sensor? \

    >
    > It interpolates the values of 4 monochrome sensors.


    Yes, and a Foveon sensor interpolates the values of 3 monochrome layers.
    Your point is?

    >>They sacrifice exactly 0% of any resolution.

    >
    > 75% of the rated MPs in a Bayer camera (all digitals, minus Foveon)
    > are completely and totally wasted. That is the problem when your
    > sensor is only capable of sensing monocrome images and artifical color
    > must be digitally simulated by placing a colored plastic mosiac in
    > front of a purely B&W sensor rated at a purely B&W MP rating.


    First, it's not *MY* sensor. Second, all digital sensors (AFAIF),
    including the Foveon, are only capable of sensing "B&W" light, i.e.
    luminance. A Bayer sensor uses a grid mosaic to achieve the
    RGB-filtering, whereas a Foveon sensor uses essentially stacked RGB
    filters. Unfortunately Sigma skimped on the Foveon-recommended
    lowpass&color filter, so the quality of those three layers are rather bad.

    -JP
     
    Jukka-Pekka Suominen, May 19, 2004
    #17
  18. George Preddy wrote:

    > "Bart van der Wolf" <> wrote in message news:<40a9ff02$0$21804$4all.nl>...
    >
    >>"Georgette Preddy" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>SNIP
    >>
    >>>Sigma has the only color sensor, all the other DSLRs list monochrome
    >>>MPs only, they sacrifice exactly 75% of their optical resolution to
    >>>interpolate color(color is guessed by combining 4 of their monocrome
    >>>pixels by using little plastic colored filters).

    >>
    >>Completely wrong, again.

    >
    > Bayer MPs are strictly monochrome. Foveon MPs are full color.


    "Completely wrong, again."

    See my previous post in this thread.

    -JP
     
    Jukka-Pekka Suominen, May 19, 2004
    #18
  19. m Ransley

    Mick Sterbs Guest

    "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > It really is a dream to handle, perfectly balanced with tank-like
    > construction. Bigger is better after you pass the size of a pocket.
    >


    Right. According to you it weighs 7 pounds.
    Tank-like contruction: built like a water tank.
    Bigger is better: Georgina Boy is bigger when it comes to lying.
     
    Mick Sterbs, May 19, 2004
    #19
  20. m Ransley

    Lionel Guest

    Kibo informs me that (George Preddy) stated
    that:

    >"Bart van der Wolf" <> wrote in message news:<40a9ff02$0$21804$4all.nl>...
    >> "Georgette Preddy" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> SNIP
    >> > Sigma has the only color sensor, all the other DSLRs list monochrome
    >> > MPs only, they sacrifice exactly 75% of their optical resolution to
    >> > interpolate color(color is guessed by combining 4 of their monocrome
    >> > pixels by using little plastic colored filters).

    >>
    >> Completely wrong, again.

    >
    >Bayer MPs are strictly monoc[*SLAP!*]


    You're strictly full of shit.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Lionel, May 19, 2004
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. graeme@invalid

    Thunderbird .9 sig question

    graeme@invalid, Nov 23, 2004, in forum: Firefox
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    2,163
    R fruth in Houston
    Nov 24, 2004
  2. Network Guru

    OT: Microsoft MVP in email Sig

    Network Guru, Jul 27, 2004, in forum: MCSE
    Replies:
    40
    Views:
    1,242
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
    Jul 28, 2004
  3. channing28270

    Questions I have About Paul Rowe of Maas Rowe

    channing28270, Sep 21, 2005, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    520
  4. Replies:
    3
    Views:
    652
  5. Replies:
    4
    Views:
    721
    Michael A. Ball
    Oct 30, 2006
Loading...

Share This Page