Should I scrap Epson 1280 for Canon I9900?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Birk Binnard, May 13, 2004.

  1. Birk Binnard

    Birk Binnard Guest

    I've had my Epson 1280 for almost 3 years and have made many outstanding
    prints with it, including a number of 12x36" panoramas on roll paper. I've
    also done many 12x18" and 8x10"'s. My wife really likes being abe to print a
    big bunch of 4x6" prints on roll paper to send to friends & relatives.

    About 2 years ago I got fed up with refilling cartridges, so I bought a nice
    CFS system (MediaStreet Niagra 2) for the printer. All told I've got about
    $750 invested in it so far.

    So why am I considering scrapping it? In a word: reliability. When the
    printer works, it is amazing. But I've had so many problems wtih clogged ink
    jets that I'm about out of patience with it. I've had the printhead replaced
    once (they said several of the photo cyan jets were "hoplessly clogged") and
    I have spent countless hours doing head cleanings, swapping cartridges, etc.
    etc. (I feel like I've got the Fixyourownprinter.com website memorized.)
    Right now nothing I do will result in a clean test pattern.

    The I9900 looks like it solves the clogged printhead problem by having user
    replaceable printheads and much more reasonably priced cartridges. The major
    drawback I see with the printer is it's inability to print on roll paper.

    I'd hate to buy the Canon printer and then find out it can't match the
    outstanding print quality of the 1280. (All my prints have been on Epson
    glossy paper.) I know the Canon has better specs than the 1280, but specs
    don't always tell the true story. I'd appreciate any suggestions or
    feedback. Thanks in advance.

    ---------------
    Birk Binnard
    Peninsula Software
    http://www.birkbinnard.com
     
    Birk Binnard, May 13, 2004
    #1
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  2. Birk Binnard

    Alan F Cross Guest

    Have you enquired about the longevity of Canon prints? They boast
    stunning colours but are very quiet about print life. That is stopping
    me buying Canon at the moment - so I'm waiting for the A3 version of the
    Epson R800.


    In message <bQMoc.18112$k24.17749@fed1read01>, Birk Binnard
    <> writes
    >I've had my Epson 1280 for almost 3 years and have made many outstanding
    >prints with it, including a number of 12x36" panoramas on roll paper. I've
    >also done many 12x18" and 8x10"'s. My wife really likes being abe to print a
    >big bunch of 4x6" prints on roll paper to send to friends & relatives.
    >
    >About 2 years ago I got fed up with refilling cartridges, so I bought a nice
    >CFS system (MediaStreet Niagra 2) for the printer. All told I've got about
    >$750 invested in it so far.
    >
    >So why am I considering scrapping it? In a word: reliability. When the
    >printer works, it is amazing. But I've had so many problems wtih clogged ink
    >jets that I'm about out of patience with it. I've had the printhead replaced
    >once (they said several of the photo cyan jets were "hoplessly clogged") and
    >I have spent countless hours doing head cleanings, swapping cartridges, etc.
    >etc. (I feel like I've got the Fixyourownprinter.com website memorized.)
    >Right now nothing I do will result in a clean test pattern.
    >
    >The I9900 looks like it solves the clogged printhead problem by having user
    >replaceable printheads and much more reasonably priced cartridges. The major
    >drawback I see with the printer is it's inability to print on roll paper.
    >
    >I'd hate to buy the Canon printer and then find out it can't match the
    >outstanding print quality of the 1280. (All my prints have been on Epson
    >glossy paper.) I know the Canon has better specs than the 1280, but specs
    >don't always tell the true story. I'd appreciate any suggestions or
    >feedback. Thanks in advance.
    >
    >---------------
    >Birk Binnard
    >Peninsula Software
    >http://www.birkbinnard.com
    >
    >


    --
    Alan F Cross
     
    Alan F Cross, May 13, 2004
    #2
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  3. Birk Binnard

    Birk Binnard Guest

    Not seen anything about fading/longevity with Canons EXCEPT one comment that
    said the problem was with the paper (how would the writer know this?) and
    that if you used Epson paper (which I have a good supply of) then the 2
    brands are about equal (again, how would he know?)
    ---------------
    Birk Binnard
    Peninsula Software
    http://www.birkbinnard.com
     
    Birk Binnard, May 13, 2004
    #3
  4. Birk Binnard

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: Alan F Cross
    >
    >Have you enquired about the longevity of Canon prints? They boast
    >stunning colours but are very quiet about print life.


    The better Canon inkjets like the one Birk mentions have very similar print
    life to the dye ink Epsons like the 1280. But Birk is not using the Epson inks
    so he's getting different numbers anyway.

    >Birk Binnard <>
    >
    >So why am I considering scrapping it? In a word: reliability. When the
    >printer works, it is amazing. But I've had so many problems wtih clogged ink
    >jets that I'm about out of patience with it. ... Right now nothing I do will
    >result in a clean test pattern.
    >
    >About 2 years ago I got fed up with refilling cartridges, so I bought a nice
    >CFS system (MediaStreet Niagra 2) for the printer


    My guess is there's a correlation between using third party inks not endorsed
    by Epson and these clogs. I've used a 1280 for several years (since it came
    out), always with the OEM inks, and I get the occasional gap in the 'nozzle
    check' test pattern that requires running a cleaning cycle, but usually at the
    rate of once a week or so (by contrast, my Epson 2200 almost never requires
    cleaning, so Epson is clearly working on this). Usually the gaps clear up
    after 1-3 cleaning cycles and I've never had a really serious clog that I
    couldn't fix.

    My worst problem was when I kept on printing to see how many more prints I
    could get from "empty" carts before running out of a color (answer: six), but
    when I did this I apparently got serious air bubbles in the line and it took
    maybe 25 clean cycles and a lot of wasted ink to recharge the line and clear it
    .... that's the only time I ran THAT experiment :)

    I think the problem may be your off-brand inks. Most of the reviews of third
    party inks I've read warn of increased problems with clogs and a couple of
    reviewers have ruined printers while testing them, like David Brooks of
    "Shutterbug".

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, May 13, 2004
    #4
  5. Birk Binnard

    Birk Binnard Guest

    I appreciate your feedback. About the OEM inks: from what I've read in
    several message boards the problem with Epson's clogged inkjets seems to be
    independent of the ink used. I've seen several posts about clogs from
    people who have used only genuine Epson cartridges. Plus (of course) the
    OEM outfits swear their inks are equal/superior to the Epson inks.

    From what I can tell the clogging problem has a lot to do with printer
    activity, ambient air temp & humidity, and ink age. My sense is that clogs
    are inherent with any liquid ink jet printer, and what really matters is the
    end user's ability to fix these clogs. The thing I like best about the
    i9900 is the user-replaceable inkjets. I expect the i9900 will clog up just
    like the Epsons do; however, being able to replace the jets myself is a big
    plus.
    ---------------
    Birk Binnard
    Peninsula Software
    http://www.birkbinnard.com
     
    Birk Binnard, May 13, 2004
    #5
  6. Birk Binnard

    bmoag Guest

    I recently acquired a Canon 960 after several years of using an Epson 1280.
    The print engine is similar to the 9900 although Canon claims the 9900 has
    double the bubbles.
    I have never had any clogging problems with the 1280 but have often had
    difficulty achieving monitor matching color despite painstaking efforts to
    understand color management, investing in calibration,etc.
    For me the Canon has been far easier to use to get monitor comparable color
    prints. Using only Canon cartridges the Canon printer is far more economical
    with regard to ink costs than the Epson 1280. I believe I can print more
    than 40 8.5 x12 glossy color prints and not fully exhaust any of the color
    cartridges. This is more than double what I can get out of one Epson color
    cartridge.
    The quality of the images, in terms of how photolike (as opposed to color
    balance or similar aesthetic issues) is comparable between the Canon and the
    Epson but they are NOT the same. If you are used to the "look" of Epson
    prints you should study the Canon prints if you consider the cost of the new
    printer a major dent in your wallet, in case you decide Canon prints are not
    "photolike" enough for your taste. Whatever driver settings or profiles you
    have for the papers you use with the Epson will have to be re-created for a
    Canon printer.
     
    bmoag, May 13, 2004
    #6
  7. Nothing wrong with the initial print quality of Canon photo printers but
    there is everything wrong with Canon inks and photo papers. Epson are not
    the most popular photo printer for no reason. I own a S9000 Canon and it is
    the last Canon photo printer I will ever own. Print heads at 60% of the
    printer's cost are not really 'spare parts prices', are they?

    A Canon print on Gloss paper might last as little as 3 weeks before the
    colour shift starts. I have a 18 month old photo on Kodak gloss paper, you
    can still make out the picture on! Total wast of money for me. I use a real
    digital photo lab now and I can tell you, they don't fade or shift colour.
    80% the cost of Inkjet prints too.

    W&W
    ----------------------
    "Birk Binnard" <> wrote in message
    news:bQMoc.18112$k24.17749@fed1read01...
    > I've had my Epson 1280 for almost 3 years and have made many outstanding
    > prints with it, including a number of 12x36" panoramas on roll paper. I've
    > also done many 12x18" and 8x10"'s. My wife really likes being abe to print

    a
    > big bunch of 4x6" prints on roll paper to send to friends & relatives.
    >
    > About 2 years ago I got fed up with refilling cartridges, so I bought a

    nice
    > CFS system (MediaStreet Niagra 2) for the printer. All told I've got about
    > $750 invested in it so far.
    >
    > So why am I considering scrapping it? In a word: reliability. When the
    > printer works, it is amazing. But I've had so many problems wtih clogged

    ink
    > jets that I'm about out of patience with it. I've had the printhead

    replaced
    > once (they said several of the photo cyan jets were "hoplessly clogged")

    and
    > I have spent countless hours doing head cleanings, swapping cartridges,

    etc.
    > etc. (I feel like I've got the Fixyourownprinter.com website memorized.)
    > Right now nothing I do will result in a clean test pattern.
    >
    > The I9900 looks like it solves the clogged printhead problem by having

    user
    > replaceable printheads and much more reasonably priced cartridges. The

    major
    > drawback I see with the printer is it's inability to print on roll paper.
    >
    > I'd hate to buy the Canon printer and then find out it can't match the
    > outstanding print quality of the 1280. (All my prints have been on Epson
    > glossy paper.) I know the Canon has better specs than the 1280, but specs
    > don't always tell the true story. I'd appreciate any suggestions or
    > feedback. Thanks in advance.
    >
    > ---------------
    > Birk Binnard
    > Peninsula Software
    > http://www.birkbinnard.com
    >
    >
     
    Wilder and Wilder, May 13, 2004
    #7
  8. I have been using an Epson 1270 with the Niagara 2 system since it was
    first introduced. I use Mediastreet inks (Plug-N-Play) that I find give
    a very close match to the OEM inks. I use the printer intermitently,
    sometimes not for weeks, and I have never had a clog or even slightly
    missed piece of printing in any color. After each printing session I do
    turn off the printer, and the print head goes through its little routine
    and parks itself. Maybe the 1280 is different, maybe it's the ink,
    maybe it's the turning off, but I find the 1270 printer is trouble free
    and effortless and maintains its calibration. Maybe I'm jusyt plain
    lucky. I used to get clogs when I refilled cartridges and even with OEM
    cartridges. Perhaps you should try the mediastreet inks before you
    invest in a new printer.

    Joe
     
    Joseph Miller, May 14, 2004
    #8
  9. Birk Binnard

    Birk Binnard Guest

    I have been using the MediaStreet inks. And based on what I've read in
    various forums, I think you have been lucky. It turns out I'm not the only
    one who has opted to swap out a 1280 for an i990.
    ---------------
    Birk Binnard
    Peninsula Software
    http://www.birkbinnard.com
     
    Birk Binnard, May 14, 2004
    #9
  10. Birk Binnard wrote:
    > I have been using the MediaStreet inks. And based on what I've read in
    > various forums, I think you have been lucky. It turns out I'm not the only
    > one who has opted to swap out a 1280 for an i990.
    > ---------------
    > Birk Binnard
    > Peninsula Software
    > http://www.birkbinnard.com
    >
    >

    Uh oh, I'm not sure I wanted to hear that.

    Joe
     
    Joseph Miller, May 15, 2004
    #10
  11. On Fri, 14 May 2004 07:08:55 +1000, "Wilder and Wilder"
    <> wrote:

    >Nothing wrong with the initial print quality of Canon photo printers but
    >there is everything wrong with Canon inks and photo papers. Epson are not
    >the most popular photo printer for no reason. I own a S9000 Canon and it is
    >the last Canon photo printer I will ever own. Print heads at 60% of the
    >printer's cost are not really 'spare parts prices', are they?
    >
    >A Canon print on Gloss paper might last as little as 3 weeks before the
    >colour shift starts. I have a 18 month old photo on Kodak gloss paper, you
    >can still make out the picture on! Total wast of money for me. I use a real
    >digital photo lab now and I can tell you, they don't fade or shift colour.
    >80% the cost of Inkjet prints too.
    >
    >W&W


    I've had a hard night on the tiles... but, lol

    Stick any print into a portfolio, or don't leave the print to "settle"
    for less than 24 hours and it MAY colour shift...

    I had some cracking shots, printed them and stuck them in a "plastic"
    portfolio and within 20 mins the colours started to shift to the
    green.

    You definatly have to let the prints mature and dry in the open air.

    One strange thing about canon on canon papers is that when the prints
    come out they seem to be blured... but as you watch them the inks seem
    to contract and the final print is a lot sharper than the original
    just out of the printer....

    I'm guessing that the bubbles on the paper are semmi-sperical and
    mushroom like, then as they dry the size of the drops shrink and end
    up as dots...

    either that or I need to get a life and stop watchning inks dry, lol


    --
    Jonathan Wilson.
    www.somethingerotic.com
     
    Jonathan Wilson, May 15, 2004
    #11
  12. Birk Binnard

    Frank ess Guest

    Jonathan Wilson wrote:
    > On Fri, 14 May 2004 07:08:55 +1000, "Wilder and Wilder"
    > <> wrote:
    >

    <snip>
    > I'm guessing that the bubbles on the paper are semmi-sperical and
    > mushroom like, then as they dry the size of the drops shrink and end
    > up as dots...
    >
    > either that or I need to get a life and stop watchning inks dry, lol


    Well, someone's got to do it. I for one appreciate it.

    Frank ess
     
    Frank ess, May 15, 2004
    #12
  13. Birk Binnard

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: "Birk Binnard"

    > About the OEM inks: from what I've read in several message boards
    > the problem with Epson's clogged inkjets seems to be
    > independent of the ink used.


    While people using Epson OEM inks definitely report clogs with the 1280, which
    usually clear out in a few cleaning cycles, it's rare to hear about problems as
    serious as you had with the inks you used (ie, ruined two heads and can't print
    at all). I've seen several well-known digitali report that their 1280's got
    the death clog shortly after switching to non-Epson inks, like David Brooks at
    "Shutterbug" or Michael Reichmann (Luminous Landscape) with his black/white
    system.

    > Plus (of course) the OEM outfits swear their inks are
    > equal/superior to the Epson inks.


    "OEM" is the original manufacturer, which in this case is Epson. Here's a site
    that paid to have several third party inks tested against the original factory
    inks.

    http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,111767,00.asp

    Here's a quote that sums up their findings:

    "We found that third-party inks can save you money, and that some produce
    prints on a par with the output of printer vendor inks. But we also encountered
    third-party inks that produced poor-quality prints and clogged up printheads.
    The impact of generic inks on printer warranties is ambiguous. And if you
    frequently print photographs, you should steer clear of these inks: The prints
    might look fine, but Wilhelm reported that none of the clone inks he tested
    came close to matching the permanence of brand-name inks."

    >From what I can tell the clogging problem has a lot to do with printer
    >activity, ambient air temp & humidity, and ink age.


    I'd add turning off the printer properly so the heads are parked right (ie, use
    the printer on/off switch instead of a power strip switch).

    > My sense is that clogs are inherent with any liquid ink jet printer, and
    > what really matters is the end user's ability to fix these clogs.


    I've owned four Epsons and never had a serious problem with a clog. When I
    upgraded from the EX to the 1280 I left the EX in a box for over a year until
    an in-law mentioned they'd like a printer so I pulled it out, certain it was
    clogged beyond all hope, and after two clean cycles it printed 'nozzle check'
    fine.

    I've never used anything but Epson inks though.

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, May 15, 2004
    #13
  14. Birk Binnard

    Robertwgross Guest

    Bill wrote:
    >While people using Epson OEM inks definitely report clogs with the 1280,
    >which
    >usually clear out in a few cleaning cycles, it's rare to hear about problems
    >as
    >serious as you had with the inks you used (ie, ruined two heads and can't
    >print
    >at all). I've seen several well-known digitali report that their 1280's got
    >the death clog shortly after switching to non-Epson inks, like David Brooks
    >at
    >"Shutterbug" or Michael Reichmann (Luminous Landscape) with his black/white
    >system.
    >
    >"OEM" is the original manufacturer, which in this case is Epson. Here's a
    >site
    >that paid to have several third party inks tested against the original
    >factory
    >inks.
    >
    >http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,111767,00.asp
    >
    >Here's a quote that sums up their findings:
    >
    >"We found that third-party inks can save you money, and that some produce
    >prints on a par with the output of printer vendor inks. But we also
    >encountered
    >third-party inks that produced poor-quality prints and clogged up printheads.
    >The impact of generic inks on printer warranties is ambiguous. And if you
    >frequently print photographs, you should steer clear of these inks: The
    >prints
    >might look fine, but Wilhelm reported that none of the clone inks he tested
    >came close to matching the permanence of brand-name inks."
    >
    >I'd add turning off the printer properly so the heads are parked right (ie,
    >use
    >the printer on/off switch instead of a power strip switch).
    >
    >I've owned four Epsons and never had a serious problem with a clog. When I
    >upgraded from the EX to the 1280 I left the EX in a box for over a year until
    >an in-law mentioned they'd like a printer so I pulled it out, certain it was
    >clogged beyond all hope, and after two clean cycles it printed 'nozzle check'
    >fine.
    >
    >I've never used anything but Epson inks though.


    Interesting. I still have my Epson 1270 going here (c. 1997?). No problems. It
    goes through about two black and five color Epson cartridges every three
    months.

    ---Bob Gross---
     
    Robertwgross, May 15, 2004
    #14
  15. Birk Binnard

    SteveJ Guest

    Throw all those ink jets out and get a Dye Sub printer,
    Its kinda like comparing a SD10 to a Canon or Nikon no comparison....
    Want a Photo printer, then get a Photo printer not a compromise, ink jets
    are made for text or photos.





    "Robertwgross" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Bill wrote:
    > >While people using Epson OEM inks definitely report clogs with the 1280,
    > >which
    > >usually clear out in a few cleaning cycles, it's rare to hear about

    problems
    > >as
    > >serious as you had with the inks you used (ie, ruined two heads and can't
    > >print
    > >at all). I've seen several well-known digitali report that their 1280's

    got
    > >the death clog shortly after switching to non-Epson inks, like David

    Brooks
    > >at
    > >"Shutterbug" or Michael Reichmann (Luminous Landscape) with his

    black/white
    > >system.
    > >
    > >"OEM" is the original manufacturer, which in this case is Epson. Here's

    a
    > >site
    > >that paid to have several third party inks tested against the original
    > >factory
    > >inks.
    > >
    > >http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,111767,00.asp
    > >
    > >Here's a quote that sums up their findings:
    > >
    > >"We found that third-party inks can save you money, and that some produce
    > >prints on a par with the output of printer vendor inks. But we also
    > >encountered
    > >third-party inks that produced poor-quality prints and clogged up

    printheads.
    > >The impact of generic inks on printer warranties is ambiguous. And if you
    > >frequently print photographs, you should steer clear of these inks: The
    > >prints
    > >might look fine, but Wilhelm reported that none of the clone inks he

    tested
    > >came close to matching the permanence of brand-name inks."
    > >
    > >I'd add turning off the printer properly so the heads are parked right

    (ie,
    > >use
    > >the printer on/off switch instead of a power strip switch).
    > >
    > >I've owned four Epsons and never had a serious problem with a clog. When

    I
    > >upgraded from the EX to the 1280 I left the EX in a box for over a year

    until
    > >an in-law mentioned they'd like a printer so I pulled it out, certain it

    was
    > >clogged beyond all hope, and after two clean cycles it printed 'nozzle

    check'
    > >fine.
    > >
    > >I've never used anything but Epson inks though.

    >
    > Interesting. I still have my Epson 1270 going here (c. 1997?). No

    problems. It
    > goes through about two black and five color Epson cartridges every three
    > months.
    >
    > ---Bob Gross---
     
    SteveJ, May 16, 2004
    #15
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