Sharpening question

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Mike, Sep 10, 2003.

  1. Mike

    Mike Guest

    I have a Canon A70 digicam. I always see posts about applying a bit of
    unsharp mask in photoshop instead of using camera's built-in sharpening
    algorithm. I am wondering how much sharpening people usually use for
    printing and for website viewing. Is there any standard practice of the
    amount of sharpening people usually use for these two settings?
     
    Mike, Sep 10, 2003
    #1
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  2. Mike

    Frogiswrong Guest

    on, say, a sharp (in focus) file from a 3mp camera i tend to stick to 75%
    sharpness 1.2 radius 1 threshold.
    occasionally a little higher up to 100% 1.6 1. any more and the result is
    (visably) upping contrast.



    "Savidge4" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >I have a Canon A70 digicam. I always see posts about applying a bit of
    > >unsharp mask in photoshop instead of using camera's built-in sharpening
    > >algorithm. I am wondering how much sharpening people usually use for
    > >printing and for website viewing. Is there any standard practice of the
    > >amount of sharpening people usually use for these two settings?

    >
    > An interesting question. I would off the top of my head say that sure you

    can
    > set it for this and that and you would be fine.
    >
    > Out of curiosity I took a look in my image database (I try to keep fairly
    > detailed info of each image as to what was done and how much) and the

    actual
    > answer to your question based on my own expirience is NO there is no hard

    fast
    > rule, and based on the info I have there isnt even a general rule.
    >
    > I have images from little to none to a whole lot, in both printing and web

    use.
    > it really comes down to the image.
    >
    > hope that helps!
     
    Frogiswrong, Sep 10, 2003
    #2
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  3. Mike

    Alan F Cross Guest

    In message <>, Savidge4
    <> writes
    >>I have a Canon A70 digicam. I always see posts about applying a bit of
    >>unsharp mask in photoshop instead of using camera's built-in sharpening
    >>algorithm. I am wondering how much sharpening people usually use for
    >>printing and for website viewing. Is there any standard practice of the
    >>amount of sharpening people usually use for these two settings?

    >
    >An interesting question. I would off the top of my head say that sure you can
    >set it for this and that and you would be fine.
    >
    >Out of curiosity I took a look in my image database (I try to keep fairly
    >detailed info of each image as to what was done and how much) and the actual
    >answer to your question based on my own expirience is NO there is no hard fast
    >rule, and based on the info I have there isnt even a general rule.
    >
    >I have images from little to none to a whole lot, in both printing and web use.
    > it really comes down to the image.
    >
    >hope that helps!


    You should always do your sharpening (unsharp mask) as the last exercise
    before printing. Ideally you would save an unsharpened copy of the final
    image, so that you can adjust the sharpening for a different printer or
    other output if necessary.

    If you re-size an image during the manipulation phase (eg for a web
    image), you will almost certainly want a different degree of sharpening
    before output.

    Once I have resampled a digital camera image for the web (say around 500
    pixels wide), I find that the most pleasing results usually come from
    the application of Unsharp Mask of 0.7 radius, 150%, threshold 5.

    For a printed image (perhaps 2-3000 pixels wide) you might want a radius
    of 1 to 1.5 pixels.

    --
    Alan F Cross
     
    Alan F Cross, Sep 10, 2003
    #3
  4. Mike

    Rafe B. Guest

    On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 04:57:15 -0400, "Mike" <> wrote:

    >I have a Canon A70 digicam. I always see posts about applying a bit of
    >unsharp mask in photoshop instead of using camera's built-in sharpening
    >algorithm. I am wondering how much sharpening people usually use for
    >printing and for website viewing. Is there any standard practice of the
    >amount of sharpening people usually use for these two settings?
    >



    Dan Margulis is the ultimate expert on this topic.

    He likens it to asking for a raise. Ask for the sky,
    but be aware that if you ask for too much, you'll be
    laughed at.

    More is generally better, but if you apply too much
    sharpening, the image begins to look fake and/or
    excessively noisy.

    Sharpening is a bit of an art; there are many
    variations. The amount of sharpening to apply
    depends greatly on the nature and quality of the
    image that you're starting with. High-resolution
    images generally tolerate more sharpening
    than lo-res images, for example.

    Bottom line: apply as much as you dare, but
    back off before you start to kill the image. And
    *don't* save the sharpened copy -- or at the
    very least, save a copy of the unsharpened
    image -- so that you can start over and try again
    if necessary.


    rafe b.
    http://www.terrapinphoto.com
     
    Rafe B., Sep 10, 2003
    #4
  5. Mike

    Danny Cheung Guest

    How can you apply the camera's built-in sharpening on a Canon A70?
    TIA.


    On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 04:57:15 -0400, "Mike" <> wrote:

    >I have a Canon A70 digicam. I always see posts about applying a bit of
    >unsharp mask in photoshop instead of using camera's built-in sharpening
    >algorithm. I am wondering how much sharpening people usually use for
    >printing and for website viewing. Is there any standard practice of the
    >amount of sharpening people usually use for these two settings?
    >
     
    Danny Cheung, Sep 10, 2003
    #5
  6. In general I don't use in-camera sharpening. My std PS7 settings for
    digitally generated images are 125%, 1.7 and 0. I've yet to have anyone
    claim I've over-sharpened and the results jump off the page at you.

    One technique I learned (from a Photoshop User article a year or so ago) was
    to 1) fade USM using the luminosity mode, add Gaussian Blur at the same
    percentage as the radius (i.e, in my case 1.7), then fade Gaussian Blur in
    the color mode.

    What all that does is eliminate visible color artifacts at the pixel level.
    The effect is stunning and eliminates the "over-sharpened" look.
    "Frank ess" <> wrote in message
    news:7KI7b.37903$...
    >
    > "Mike" <> wrote in message
    > news:KHB7b.2997$...
    > > I have a Canon A70 digicam. I always see posts about applying a bit of
    > > unsharp mask in photoshop instead of using camera's built-in sharpening
    > > algorithm. I am wondering how much sharpening people usually use for
    > > printing and for website viewing. Is there any standard practice of the
    > > amount of sharpening people usually use for these two settings?
    > >
    > >

    >
    > These were suggested in response to recent, similar queries:
    >
    >

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/understanding-usm.shtml
    >
    >

    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/digitalphotography/learnmore/fixit/sharpening.asp
    >
    > I'll bet there are thousands more out there.
    >
    > My standard setting is
    >
    > 50% 1.3 4, which I apply:
    > once at original size to the Lightness Lab Color channel, and to the a
    > and b channels if the photo needs focus;
    > once to the final-size (or a 5% larger step in the reduction process)
    > image in RGB color.
    >
    > It's relatively inocuous in images that start pretty sharp, and brings

    fuzzy
    > ones up to almost-good-enough.
    >
    > Of course I spend a little more time and make adjustments appropriate to

    the
    > display medium for important photos (heh), but what I set out there is

    what
    > I used for most of the 500+ I've struggled through in the past three weeks
    > and displayed at
    >
    > http://www.fototime.com/inv/2EE6E4944A6DEAD
    >
    > I reckon if I keep at it I might learn to make good pictures in about
    > another half-century.
    >
    >
    > Frank ess
    >
    >
     
    Gerald G. McGeorge, Sep 11, 2003
    #6
  7. Mike

    Mike Guest

    "Danny Cheung" <> wrote in message
    news:
    > How can you apply the camera's built-in sharpening on a Canon A70?
    > TIA.
    >


    If you chose "vivid" photo effect then it uses sharpening and saturated
    color to record. Using "low sharpening" softens image while "off" gives
    neutral effect.
     
    Mike, Sep 11, 2003
    #7
  8. Mike

    Frogiswrong Guest

    "Val Sharp" <> wrote in message
    news:NIX7b.2240$9.net...
    > Gerald G. McGeorge, on 11/09/03 04:00, wrote:
    >
    >
    > > ...
    > > One technique I learned (from a Photoshop User article a year or so ago)

    was
    > > to 1) fade USM using the luminosity mode, add Gaussian Blur at the

    same
    > > percentage as the radius (i.e, in my case 1.7), then fade Gaussian Blur

    in
    > > the color mode.
    > > ...

    >
    > I find that method works very well most of the time, but I discovered
    > that for my recent fireworks photos it lost some of the colour from
    > the fine strands of the bursts.
    >
    > For these I found that going into 'Lab' mode and sharpening the
    > 'lightness' channel (- then back to 'RGB' of course) kept most of the
    > colour without introducing too much noise.
    >
    >


    These two techneques achieve the same result.
    Going to LAB and back to rgb isnt ideal. Thats why the fade sharpen in
    luminosity mode is preferable. Same result without the loss of data coming
    back to RGB from LAB.




    > Regards,
    > Val
    >
     
    Frogiswrong, Sep 11, 2003
    #8
  9. Mike

    keitje Guest

    "Mike" <> wrote:

    >I have a Canon A70 digicam. I always see posts about applying a bit of
    >unsharp mask in photoshop instead of using camera's built-in sharpening
    >algorithm. I am wondering how much sharpening people usually use for
    >printing and for website viewing. Is there any standard practice of the
    >amount of sharpening people usually use for these two settings?


    Looking on photographs on the web think there is a tendency to
    publish them rather unsharp.
    For myself I like images more sharper, bu that is just me.
    If you feel like it, take a look at some photographs on my site
    http://www.xs4all.nl/~dekei/fotoserie/woonboten/indexwoonboten.html

    I would like someones opinion on "my" amount of sharpening.


    greetings
    keitje
     
    keitje, Sep 12, 2003
    #9
  10. Mike

    FOR7b Guest

    >Looking on photographs on the web think there is a tendency to
    >publish them rather unsharp.
    >For myself I like images more sharper, bu that is just me.
    >If you feel like it, take a look at some photographs on my site
    >http://www.xs4all.nl/~dekei/fotoserie/woonboten/indexwoonboten.html
    >
    >I would like someones opinion on "my" amount of sharpening.
    >
    >
    >greetings
    >keitje
    >


    Amount of sharpening looks fine but I would not be so agressive on the amount
    of .jpg compression you are using as many of the larger images show artifacts.



     
    FOR7b, Sep 12, 2003
    #10
  11. (keitje) writes:

    >Looking on photographs on the web think there is a tendency to
    >publish them rather unsharp.


    I see some stuff that looks like it's straight out of the camera with no
    sharpening at all, and other work that's obviously oversharpened with
    halos around all of the sharp edges.

    >I would like someones opinion on "my" amount of sharpening.


    I'd say they range from good to slightly oversharpened. Many of the
    diagonal lines show "jaggies", which is a sign of too much sharpening,
    or perhaps a poor method used to reduce the image to its smaller size.

    I'd also suggest using less JPEG compression. Turn up the quality
    setting until you can't see any difference between the JPEG and a TIFF
    of the same size.

    Dave
     
    Dave Martindale, Sep 12, 2003
    #11
  12. Mike

    keitje Guest

    (keitje) wrote:

    >"Mike" <> wrote:
    >
    >>I have a Canon A70 digicam. I always see posts about applying a bit of
    >>unsharp mask in photoshop instead of using camera's built-in sharpening
    >>algorithm. I am wondering how much sharpening people usually use for
    >>printing and for website viewing. Is there any standard practice of the
    >>amount of sharpening people usually use for these two settings?

    >
    >Looking on photographs on the web think there is a tendency to
    >publish them rather unsharp.
    >For myself I like images more sharper, bu that is just me.
    >If you feel like it, take a look at some photographs on my site
    >http://www.xs4all.nl/~dekei/fotoserie/woonboten/indexwoonboten.html
    >
    >I would like someones opinion on "my" amount of sharpening.


    Thank you both for your remarks


    greetings
    keitje
     
    keitje, Sep 13, 2003
    #12
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