Setting up a small mailing list.

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by George, Feb 19, 2005.

  1. George

    George Guest

    I would like to set up a simple mailing list to send out about 100 emails to
    regular readers to receive a newsgroup.

    Does anybody know the simplest way to achieve this or not? Is their a
    problem with sending using blind carbon copy with Outlook Express or
    Outlook? Are there any known issues with BCC's getting filtered through some
    mail servers.
     
    George, Feb 19, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. George

    Mara Guest

    On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:47:44 -0000, "George" <>
    wrote:

    >I would like to set up a simple mailing list to send out about 100 emails to
    >regular readers to receive a newsgroup.


    Has each and every one of those people explicitly agreed beforehand to
    receive those e-mails?

    --
    "No lusers were harmed in the creation of this usenet article.
    AND I WANT TO KNOW WHY NOT!"
    --glmar04 at twirl.mcc.ac.uk in a.s.r
     
    Mara, Feb 19, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. George

    George Guest

    "Mara" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:47:44 -0000, "George" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>I would like to set up a simple mailing list to send out about 100 emails
    >>to
    >>regular readers to receive a newsgroup.

    >
    > Has each and every one of those people explicitly agreed beforehand to
    > receive those e-mails?



    That seems to be getting into a separate issue from my original question.
     
    George, Feb 19, 2005
    #3
  4. George wrote:
    > "Mara" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:47:44 -0000, "George" <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>I would like to set up a simple mailing list to send out about 100 emails
    >>>to
    >>>regular readers to receive a newsgroup.

    >>
    >>Has each and every one of those people explicitly agreed beforehand to
    >>receive those e-mails?

    >
    >
    >
    > That seems to be getting into a separate issue from my original question.
    >
    >


    Have a read of your Help file in OE, you will be amazed at what
    information is contained within.
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Brian_H=B9=A9?=, Feb 19, 2005
    #4
  5. George

    George Guest

    "Brian H¹©" <> wrote in message
    news:_qJRd.3247$...
    > George wrote:
    >> "Mara" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>>On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:47:44 -0000, "George" <>
    >>>wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I would like to set up a simple mailing list to send out about 100
    >>>>emails to
    >>>>regular readers to receive a newsgroup.
    >>>
    >>>Has each and every one of those people explicitly agreed beforehand to
    >>>receive those e-mails?

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> That seems to be getting into a separate issue from my original question.

    >
    > Have a read of your Help file in OE, you will be amazed at what
    > information is contained within.


    It sais nothing about problems with BCC with respect go travelling through
    different ISP mail servers.
     
    George, Feb 19, 2005
    #5
  6. George wrote:

    > "Brian H¹©" <> wrote in message
    > news:_qJRd.3247$...
    >
    >>George wrote:
    >>
    >>>"Mara" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:47:44 -0000, "George" <>
    >>>>wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>I would like to set up a simple mailing list to send out about 100
    >>>>>emails to
    >>>>>regular readers to receive a newsgroup.
    >>>>
    >>>>Has each and every one of those people explicitly agreed beforehand to
    >>>>receive those e-mails?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>That seems to be getting into a separate issue from my original question.

    >>
    >>Have a read of your Help file in OE, you will be amazed at what
    >>information is contained within.

    >
    >
    > It sais nothing about problems with BCC with respect go travelling through
    > different ISP mail servers.
    >
    >


    Presumably you have armed yourself with information prior to my
    mentioning it, so a better batch of info regarding any doubts or queries
    you have would make it easier to answer you.
    Yes you can set up and use OE to manage a mailing list, yes you can set
    it up to Bcc, as for problems travelling through diff ISP's, what is
    concerning you about that?
    Each recipient will get a Bcc copy of your e-mail, unless you have been
    filtered or even blacklisted as a likely spammer.
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Brian_H=B9=A9?=, Feb 19, 2005
    #6
  7. George

    George Guest

    "Brian H¹©" <> wrote in message
    news:ZGJRd.3251$...
    > George wrote:


    > Yes you can set up and use OE to manage a mailing list, yes you can set it
    > up to Bcc, as for problems travelling through diff ISP's, what is
    > concerning you about that?


    In particular I am worried that some ISP providers filter out BCC as a
    matter of routine. Do you or anybody know of this?


    > Each recipient will get a Bcc copy of your e-mail, unless you have been
    > filtered or even blacklisted as a likely spammer.


    No issues with spam as these are targeted email that are selected
    specifically and not randomly.
     
    George, Feb 19, 2005
    #7
  8. George wrote:

    > "Brian H¹©" <> wrote in message
    > news:ZGJRd.3251$...
    >
    >>George wrote:

    >
    >
    >>Yes you can set up and use OE to manage a mailing list, yes you can set it
    >>up to Bcc, as for problems travelling through diff ISP's, what is
    >>concerning you about that?

    >
    >
    > In particular I am worried that some ISP providers filter out BCC as a
    > matter of routine. Do you or anybody know of this?
    >


    I have not heard of that happening.

    >
    >
    >>Each recipient will get a Bcc copy of your e-mail, unless you have been
    >>filtered or even blacklisted as a likely spammer.

    >
    >
    > No issues with spam as these are targeted email that are selected
    > specifically and not randomly.
    >
    >


    Then it isn't an opt-in mailing list?
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Brian_H=B9=A9?=, Feb 19, 2005
    #8
  9. George

    Mara Guest

    On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:49:31 -0000, "George" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >"Mara" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:47:44 -0000, "George" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>>I would like to set up a simple mailing list to send out about 100 emails
    >>>to
    >>>regular readers to receive a newsgroup.

    >>
    >> Has each and every one of those people explicitly agreed beforehand to
    >> receive those e-mails?

    >
    >
    >That seems to be getting into a separate issue from my original question.


    You can attempt to claim that, but the fact of the matter is that you
    haven't answered the question - and *that* question should be first
    and foremost. Spamming isn't a very smart thing to do, and unless each
    and every one of those people have agreed to receive your e-mails
    *before* you send out the first time, that's *exactly* what you'll be
    doing.

    "Let's see. Asking a vague question about sending bulk e-mails -
    strike one. Refusing to answer a direct query about whether those
    e-mails are COI- strike two. Hmmm."

    --
    "No lusers were harmed in the creation of this usenet article.
    AND I WANT TO KNOW WHY NOT!"
    --glmar04 at twirl.mcc.ac.uk in a.s.r
     
    Mara, Feb 19, 2005
    #9
  10. George

    Mara Guest

    On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 16:22:36 -0000, "George" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >"Brian H¹©" <> wrote in message
    >news:ZGJRd.3251$...
    >> George wrote:

    >
    >> Yes you can set up and use OE to manage a mailing list, yes you can set it
    >> up to Bcc, as for problems travelling through diff ISP's, what is
    >> concerning you about that?

    >
    >In particular I am worried that some ISP providers filter out BCC as a
    >matter of routine. Do you or anybody know of this?
    >
    >
    >> Each recipient will get a Bcc copy of your e-mail, unless you have been
    >> filtered or even blacklisted as a likely spammer.

    >
    >No issues with spam as these are targeted email that are selected
    >specifically and not randomly.


    I don't care if the "targets" are wildebeests who snort Vicks Vaporub.
    Unless those "targets" agreed to receive those e-mails *beforehand* by
    going through an opt-in process, hopefully a *confirmed* opt-in
    process, you are spamming - and you still haven't answered *that*
    question, have you?

    "Spamming makes *you* the "target."

    --
    "No lusers were harmed in the creation of this usenet article.
    AND I WANT TO KNOW WHY NOT!"
    --glmar04 at twirl.mcc.ac.uk in a.s.r
     
    Mara, Feb 19, 2005
    #10
  11. George

    Mike Easter Guest

    George wrote:
    > No issues with spam as these are targeted email that are selected
    > specifically and not randomly.


    The famous "My spam is not spam."

    Key badword: selected

    Bzzzzt. Wrong word.

    Don't be emailing your spam to any 'selected' addies without their
    specific and revocable request for /your/ specific mail, not some other
    similar mail, and documented with a uniquely tokenized confirmation of
    wanting that mail prior to the first such item being sent.

    Mailing lists are nasty business; you need to get up to speed somewhere
    like MAPS http://www.mail-abuse.com/an_listmgntgdlines.html Guidelines
    for proper mailing list management -- before you sent the first
    confirmation, much less targeted email.

    You are worried about 'losing' something mailed because of normal BCC
    function, which is a healthy acceptable construction, when you should be
    worried about losing something like your mailing account because of
    doing a bad job of list managment which is often done in a very
    unhealthy fashion

    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Feb 19, 2005
    #11
  12. George

    George Guest

    "Brian H¹©" <> wrote in message
    news:81KRd.3260$...
    > George wrote:
    >
    >> "Brian H¹©" <> wrote in message
    >> news:ZGJRd.3251$...
    >>
    >>>George wrote:

    >>
    >>
    >>>Yes you can set up and use OE to manage a mailing list, yes you can set
    >>>it up to Bcc, as for problems travelling through diff ISP's, what is
    >>>concerning you about that?

    >>
    >>
    >> In particular I am worried that some ISP providers filter out BCC as a
    >> matter of routine. Do you or anybody know of this?
    >>

    >
    > I have not heard of that happening.
    >
    >>
    >>
    >>>Each recipient will get a Bcc copy of your e-mail, unless you have been
    >>>filtered or even blacklisted as a likely spammer.

    >>
    >>
    >> No issues with spam as these are targeted email that are selected
    >> specifically and not randomly.

    >
    > Then it isn't an opt-in mailing list?


    I'm not worried about the particular details of who I am sending emails the
    important point is that I am sending multiple emails as opposed to just one.
    As in a mailing list.
     
    George, Feb 19, 2005
    #12
  13. George

    George Guest

    "Mara" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 16:22:36 -0000, "George" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"Brian H¹©" <> wrote in message
    >>news:ZGJRd.3251$...
    >>> George wrote:

    >>
    >>> Yes you can set up and use OE to manage a mailing list, yes you can set
    >>> it
    >>> up to Bcc, as for problems travelling through diff ISP's, what is
    >>> concerning you about that?

    >>
    >>In particular I am worried that some ISP providers filter out BCC as a
    >>matter of routine. Do you or anybody know of this?
    >>
    >>
    >>> Each recipient will get a Bcc copy of your e-mail, unless you have been
    >>> filtered or even blacklisted as a likely spammer.

    >>
    >>No issues with spam as these are targeted email that are selected
    >>specifically and not randomly.

    >
    > I don't care if the "targets" are wildebeests who snort Vicks Vaporub.
    > Unless those "targets" agreed to receive those e-mails *beforehand* by
    > going through an opt-in process, hopefully a *confirmed* opt-in
    > process, you are spamming - and you still haven't answered *that*
    > question, have you?
    >
    > "Spamming makes *you* the "target."



    I am only saying that I want to send multiple messages to multiple email
    addresses simultaneously, there are many legitimate uses such as customer
    news letters and so forth. I am finding out with respect to some third
    party, and I am not interested to discuss what warrants spam or not. I
    personally do not send unsolicited emails as I think they do more harm than
    good to your business.
    >
     
    George, Feb 19, 2005
    #13
  14. George

    George Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > George wrote:
    >> No issues with spam as these are targeted email that are selected
    >> specifically and not randomly.

    >
    > The famous "My spam is not spam."
    >
    > Key badword: selected
    >
    > Bzzzzt. Wrong word.
    >
    > Don't be emailing your spam to any 'selected' addies without their
    > specific and revocable request for /your/ specific mail, not some other
    > similar mail, and documented with a uniquely tokenized confirmation of
    > wanting that mail prior to the first such item being sent.
    >
    > Mailing lists are nasty business; you need to get up to speed somewhere
    > like MAPS http://www.mail-abuse.com/an_listmgntgdlines.html Guidelines
    > for proper mailing list management -- before you sent the first
    > confirmation, much less targeted email.
    >
    > You are worried about 'losing' something mailed because of normal BCC
    > function, which is a healthy acceptable construction, when you should be
    > worried about losing something like your mailing account because of
    > doing a bad job of list managment which is often done in a very
    > unhealthy fashion
    >
    > --
    > Mike Easter


    Hi Mike

    I do agree with what your saying. I get totally annoyed when I get the same
    email sent to me time and time again. Actually I am simlpy finding out how
    to send email using Blind Carbon Copy as someone was having difficulty with
    this.
    Some people say that it is ok to send unsolicited commercial email to
    someone as long as you are sending it from your own business address and you
    use your own identity and you have an opt out button, so that makes it no
    different than sending a letter. However, due to the number of times this
    happens I am thinking it ispossibly is a bad idea, even if the potential
    clients are focused and targeted.

    Actually I have advised this third party who is a client of mine, but he
    seems to want to go ahead with it, and actually they are not having agreed
    to receive email in the first place
    >
     
    George, Feb 19, 2005
    #14
  15. George

    George Guest

    "Mara" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 15:49:31 -0000, "George" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"Mara" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 12:47:44 -0000, "George" <>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>I would like to set up a simple mailing list to send out about 100
    >>>>emails
    >>>>to
    >>>>regular readers to receive a newsgroup.
    >>>
    >>> Has each and every one of those people explicitly agreed beforehand to
    >>> receive those e-mails?

    >>
    >>
    >>That seems to be getting into a separate issue from my original question.

    >
    > You can attempt to claim that, but the fact of the matter is that you
    > haven't answered the question - and *that* question should be first
    > and foremost. Spamming isn't a very smart thing to do, and unless each
    > and every one of those people have agreed to receive your e-mails
    > *before* you send out the first time, that's *exactly* what you'll be
    > doing.



    >
    > "Let's see. Asking a vague question about sending bulk e-mails -
    > strike one. Refusing to answer a direct query about whether those
    > e-mails are COI- strike two. Hmmm."


    I am not the person sending the emails, I am only trying to find out about
    problems associated with BCC as if you are sending out
    a news letter. However, the person who I am finding out about is sending
    emails to potential clients, but he is using his own business addres, his
    own business name, his home and address. I do not agree that is exactly the
    same thing as spam. Where do you draw the line at what is defined as "spam"?
    Unsolicited Commercial emails is not necessarily spam and is not illegal. I
    personally do agree with you and I advised the person to be very very
    careful about it. He got the email list from the local "chamber of commerce"
    which each member has got a book with all members names. I dont know if they
    would consider it spamming or not.

    I don't think I would do it.
    >
    > --
    > "No lusers were harmed in the creation of this usenet article.
    > AND I WANT TO KNOW WHY NOT!"
    > --glmar04 at twirl.mcc.ac.uk in a.s.r
     
    George, Feb 19, 2005
    #15
  16. George

    Mara Guest

    On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:14:03 -0000, "George" <>
    wrote:

    <snip>
    >I am only saying that I want to send multiple messages to multiple email
    >addresses simultaneously, there are many legitimate uses such as customer
    >news letters and so forth. I am finding out with respect to some third
    >party, and I am not interested to discuss what warrants spam or not. I
    >personally do not send unsolicited emails as I think they do more harm than
    >good to your business.


    Strike three.

    And there you have it, Ladioes and gentlemen - spamsign.

    --
    "No lusers were harmed in the creation of this usenet article.
    AND I WANT TO KNOW WHY NOT!"
    --glmar04 at twirl.mcc.ac.uk in a.s.r
     
    Mara, Feb 19, 2005
    #16
  17. George

    Mike Easter Guest

    George wrote:
    > "Mike Easter"


    >> George wrote:
    >>> No issues with spam as these are targeted email that are selected
    >>> specifically and not randomly.

    >>
    >> The famous "My spam is not spam."


    >> http://www.mail-abuse.com/an_listmgntgdlines.html Guidelines for
    >> proper mailing list management -- before you sent the first
    >> confirmation, much less targeted email.


    > I do agree with what your saying. I get totally annoyed when I get
    > the same email sent to me time and time again.


    Getting annoyed isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about all of
    the bad things that are getting ready to start happening.

    > Actually I am simlpy
    > finding out how to send email using Blind Carbon Copy as someone was
    > having difficulty with this.


    Yes, you are focused on the mechanics of how to bulk mail from a
    mechanical point of view We are trying to change the focus to how to
    /properly/ bulk mail from a confirmed permission based point of view

    Bulk mailing is only healthy if it is done correctly. Doing it
    correctly comes before putting anything into the BCC.

    > Some people say that it is ok to send unsolicited commercial email to
    > someone as long as you are sending it from your own business address
    > and you use your own identity and you have an opt out button, so that
    > makes it no different than sending a letter.


    What is legal according to the can spam act won't keep the sender's
    sending IP address off of various blocklists. Then, not only will the
    mailing list recipients not be getting their spam/newsletter, but
    neither will anyone else you/he mails.

    > However, due to the
    > number of times this happens I am thinking it ispossibly is a bad
    > idea, even if the potential clients are focused and targeted.


    It /is/ a bad idea. Focusing and targeting are spammer and direct
    marketing spammer terms. So are the ideas you posited above about
    'opt-out'. No one should nor will ever opt out of something they
    haven't verifiably and revocably and specifically opted into. Instead
    they will be reporting the spam to the provider and to blocklisting
    services to cause the sender's IP to become blocked from sending any
    mail successfully, mailing list or otherwise.

    > Actually I have advised this third party who is a client of mine, but
    > he seems to want to go ahead with it, and actually they are not
    > having agreed to receive email in the first place


    Just because someone isn't listening to your advice doesn't mean you are
    supposed to

    - accede to their evil wishes which will cause you and them grief
    - facilitate the performance of the deed

    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Feb 19, 2005
    #17
  18. George wrote:
    > "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>George wrote:
    >>
    >>>No issues with spam as these are targeted email that are selected
    >>>specifically and not randomly.

    >>
    >>The famous "My spam is not spam."
    >>
    >>Key badword: selected
    >>
    >>Bzzzzt. Wrong word.
    >>
    >>Don't be emailing your spam to any 'selected' addies without their
    >>specific and revocable request for /your/ specific mail, not some other
    >>similar mail, and documented with a uniquely tokenized confirmation of
    >>wanting that mail prior to the first such item being sent.
    >>
    >>Mailing lists are nasty business; you need to get up to speed somewhere
    >>like MAPS http://www.mail-abuse.com/an_listmgntgdlines.html Guidelines
    >>for proper mailing list management -- before you sent the first
    >>confirmation, much less targeted email.
    >>
    >>You are worried about 'losing' something mailed because of normal BCC
    >>function, which is a healthy acceptable construction, when you should be
    >>worried about losing something like your mailing account because of
    >>doing a bad job of list managment which is often done in a very
    >>unhealthy fashion
    >>
    >>--
    >>Mike Easter

    >
    >
    > Hi Mike
    >
    > I do agree with what your saying. I get totally annoyed when I get the same
    > email sent to me time and time again. Actually I am simlpy finding out how
    > to send email using Blind Carbon Copy as someone was having difficulty with
    > this.
    > Some people say that it is ok to send unsolicited commercial email to
    > someone as long as you are sending it from your own business address and you
    > use your own identity and you have an opt out button, so that makes it no
    > different than sending a letter. However, due to the number of times this
    > happens I am thinking it ispossibly is a bad idea, even if the potential
    > clients are focused and targeted.
    >
    > Actually I have advised this third party who is a client of mine, but he
    > seems to want to go ahead with it, and actually they are not having agreed
    > to receive email in the first place
    >
    >
    >


    Then I suggest you politely tell him you can't help him resolve the issue.
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Brian_H=B9=A9?=, Feb 19, 2005
    #18
  19. George

    Mike Easter Guest

    George wrote:
    > I am only saying that I want to send multiple messages to multiple
    > email addresses simultaneously,


    > I am not interested to discuss what warrants
    > spam or not.


    Look how crazy and spammish those statements are.

    The notion is also shortsighted. Trying to send mail when your/the
    mailsending IP is blocked by lots of recipients doesn't work.

    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Feb 19, 2005
    #19
  20. George

    Mike Easter Guest

    George wrote:
    > the person who I am finding out about is
    > sending emails to potential clients, but he is using his own business
    > addres, his own business name, his home and address. I do not agree
    > that is exactly the same thing as spam.


    It is in fact /exactly/ the same thing as spam.

    > Where do you draw the line at
    > what is defined as "spam"?


    My favorite spam definition is at MAPS, where I previously directed you
    about how to make a mailing list. The spam definition is at
    http://www.mail-abuse.com/spam_def.html MAPS' Definition of "spam"

    In this case you can focus on part 2 -- [...] AND (2) the recipient has
    not verifiably granted deliberate, explicit, and still-revocable
    permission for it to be sent; AND [...]

    > He got the
    > email list from the local "chamber of commerce" which each member has
    > got a book with all members names. I dont know if they would consider
    > it spamming or not.


    Getting a list from someone else's list is the absolute most common
    source cause of spam lists. The addresses given to the CofC wasn't
    given to your friend/client by each individual address on that list
    requesting that your client spam them with anything.

    > I don't think I would do it.


    You don't think? How could you even consider it?


    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Feb 19, 2005
    #20
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