Server side programing question

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by danarz@gmail.com, Feb 11, 2005.

  1. Guest

    I am currently using PHP to do my programing.

    I am looking to learn an additional language that is more robust.
    Also, I want something that I can use on a windows desktop as a
    stand-alone as well as for web programing.
    However, I want to avoid Microsoft products (such as asp.net, VB, C#...
    since they are usually expensive and limiting me to their products
    only)!!!

    My understanding is that I should use java or Perl since these are free
    and available on most web hosting packages.

    can anyone give some feedback?
    , Feb 11, 2005
    #1
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  2. AD. Guest

    On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 19:04:23 -0800, danarz wrote:

    > I am currently using PHP to do my programing.
    >
    > I am looking to learn an additional language that is more robust. Also, I
    > want something that I can use on a windows desktop as a stand-alone as
    > well as for web programing. However, I want to avoid Microsoft products
    > (such as asp.net, VB, C#... since they are usually expensive and limiting
    > me to their products only)!!!
    >
    > My understanding is that I should use java or Perl since these are free
    > and available on most web hosting packages.
    >
    > can anyone give some feedback?


    The following is just my opinion, others will no doubt disagree :)

    I'd recommend Python myself.

    If you are looking at doing lots of different kinds of stuff eg CGI,
    Sysadmin scripting (incl Windows and Active Directory), Application
    servers (eg Zope/Plone), web frameworks, client GUI apps (wxWidgets, Qt,
    GTK etc), XML handling etc I reckon Python is the most adaptable.

    Java and Perl are good too and would be my second choice depending on just
    what you want to do. They don't cover all the bases as well though. Java
    isn't good at sysadmin scripting and the GUI apps aren't so hot, but it
    excels at server side application server stuff (tons of Apache projects)
    and XML stuff. Perl is really good at CGI and scripting/reporting type
    stuff, but not so good for app server type tasks.

    Python is also easier and more productive than the others, and is even
    coming on strong as a .NET language now. Java is verbose, object
    oriented only and takes longer to learn, while Perl can be cryptic and
    isn't so good at OO stuff. Python is easy to read and maintain, while
    allowing you to choose whether you want an OO design or a procedural one.

    While Java and Perl have plateaued I reckon Python is still on a strong
    upswing.

    --
    Cheers
    Anton
    AD., Feb 11, 2005
    #2
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  3. Guest

    I'll look into python.

    Thanks a lot.
    , Feb 11, 2005
    #3
  4. steven Guest

    On 10 Feb 2005 19:04:23 -0800, wrote:

    > I am currently using PHP to do my programing.
    >
    > I am looking to learn an additional language that is more robust.
    > Also, I want something that I can use on a windows desktop as a
    > stand-alone as well as for web programing.
    > However, I want to avoid Microsoft products (such as asp.net, VB, C#...
    > since they are usually expensive


    bollocks, do some research

    the .net framework sdk is free, includes compilers, debuggers, you can code
    in C#, VB.net, asp.net

    you can run through iis - included with windows, just install it off the
    cd.

    > and limiting me to their products
    > only)!!!


    if you code in pure .net you can run your code on linux, unix, apple. -
    that means no pinvoke (platform invoke for specific platform dependant
    libaries).

    an upside is that you learn OOP because the framework is oo, which are by
    no means is a 'microsoft thing'.

    > My understanding is that I should use java or Perl since these are free
    > and available on most web hosting packages.


    ..net hosting costs about the same, some fucked up hosting companies charge
    more for this 'feature' - take the hint, dont use them.

    --
    -------------------------------------
    Steven H (.net geek)
    Third Year, B.I.T. Otago Polytechnic
    steven, Feb 12, 2005
    #4
  5. T-Boy Guest

    In article <ioxi0nd1rmy8$>,
    says...
    > On 10 Feb 2005 19:04:23 -0800, wrote:
    >
    > > I am currently using PHP to do my programing.
    > >
    > > I am looking to learn an additional language that is more robust.
    > > Also, I want something that I can use on a windows desktop as a
    > > stand-alone as well as for web programing.
    > > However, I want to avoid Microsoft products (such as asp.net, VB, C#...
    > > since they are usually expensive

    >
    > bollocks, do some research
    >
    > the .net framework sdk is free, includes compilers, debuggers, you can code
    > in C#, VB.net, asp.net
    >
    > you can run through iis - included with windows, just install it off the
    > cd.
    >
    > > and limiting me to their products
    > > only)!!!

    >
    > if you code in pure .net you can run your code on linux, unix, apple. -
    > that means no pinvoke (platform invoke for specific platform dependant
    > libaries).
    >
    > an upside is that you learn OOP because the framework is oo, which are by
    > no means is a 'microsoft thing'.
    >
    > > My understanding is that I should use java or Perl since these are free
    > > and available on most web hosting packages.

    >
    > .net hosting costs about the same, some fucked up hosting companies charge
    > more for this 'feature' - take the hint, dont use them.


    Also interesting - I hear Mono (Linux .NET port) is well supported under
    the various Linux dists. Q. for Linux folk then, "what Linux's *don't*
    support Mono?"

    --
    Duncan
    T-Boy, Feb 12, 2005
    #5
  6. AD. Guest

    On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 11:16:41 +1300, T-Boy wrote:

    > Also interesting - I hear Mono (Linux .NET port) is well supported under
    > the various Linux dists. Q. for Linux folk then, "what Linux's *don't*
    > support Mono?"


    That depends on what you mean by "don't support".

    It's in the Debian archive, so that means they'll patch it etc.

    If you are intending to develop cross platform .NET apps, be aware that
    mono is only a subset of the whole thing. You should be ok with most
    ASP.NET type stuff though.

    --
    Cheers
    Anton
    AD., Feb 13, 2005
    #6
  7. Guest

    I never realized that I'll get that much response.

    Can anyone tell me if it is possible to simply have PHP run on windows
    without a server. I guess the correct term is "stand alon" php.

    This way I can use my current knowledge of PHP rather than have to
    learn a whole new language.

    I am not a professional and don't intend on becoming one. This purely a
    hoby. DOn't have much time and need for the advanced stuff. I just
    thought it would be nice to know a langauge that can help me automate
    tasks I need to do... like creating forms for information I want to
    enter in MS excel. I already know PHP and I hate Microsoft so I don't
    want to use their products if not obsolutly needed.

    Python seems simple enough. HOwever, I already know PHP. Also,
    continuing with php would allow me to improve on my php skills.


    AD. wrote:
    > On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 19:04:23 -0800, danarz wrote:
    >
    > > I am currently using PHP to do my programing.
    > >
    > > I am looking to learn an additional language that is more robust.

    Also, I
    > > want something that I can use on a windows desktop as a stand-alone

    as
    > > well as for web programing. However, I want to avoid Microsoft

    products
    > > (such as asp.net, VB, C#... since they are usually expensive and

    limiting
    > > me to their products only)!!!
    > >
    > > My understanding is that I should use java or Perl since these are

    free
    > > and available on most web hosting packages.
    > >
    > > can anyone give some feedback?

    >
    > The following is just my opinion, others will no doubt disagree :)
    >
    > I'd recommend Python myself.
    >
    > If you are looking at doing lots of different kinds of stuff eg CGI,
    > Sysadmin scripting (incl Windows and Active Directory), Application
    > servers (eg Zope/Plone), web frameworks, client GUI apps (wxWidgets,

    Qt,
    > GTK etc), XML handling etc I reckon Python is the most adaptable.
    >
    > Java and Perl are good too and would be my second choice depending on

    just
    > what you want to do. They don't cover all the bases as well though.

    Java
    > isn't good at sysadmin scripting and the GUI apps aren't so hot, but

    it
    > excels at server side application server stuff (tons of Apache

    projects)
    > and XML stuff. Perl is really good at CGI and scripting/reporting

    type
    > stuff, but not so good for app server type tasks.
    >
    > Python is also easier and more productive than the others, and is

    even
    > coming on strong as a .NET language now. Java is verbose, object
    > oriented only and takes longer to learn, while Perl can be cryptic

    and
    > isn't so good at OO stuff. Python is easy to read and maintain, while
    > allowing you to choose whether you want an OO design or a procedural

    one.
    >
    > While Java and Perl have plateaued I reckon Python is still on a

    strong
    > upswing.
    >
    > --
    > Cheers
    > Anton
    , Feb 15, 2005
    #7
  8. AD. Guest

    On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:25:08 -0800, danarz wrote:

    > I never realized that I'll get that much response.
    >
    > Can anyone tell me if it is possible to simply have PHP run on windows
    > without a server. I guess the correct term is "stand alon" php.


    You mean as a general scripting language? I know it can be done on Unix
    like machines - it might be able to on Windows as well.

    http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/darrell20000319.php3
    http://www.zend.com/zend/spotlight/shellscriptingp1.php

    Keep in mind that it won't be as good as Perl or Python for this.

    >
    > This way I can use my current knowledge of PHP rather than have to learn a
    > whole new language.


    I can understand that. You should have a go with PHP first, and see if it
    can do what you want.

    >
    > I am not a professional and don't intend on becoming one. This purely a
    > hoby. DOn't have much time and need for the advanced stuff. I just thought
    > it would be nice to know a langauge that can help me automate tasks I need
    > to do... like creating forms for information I want to enter in MS excel.
    > I already know PHP and I hate Microsoft so I don't want to use their
    > products if not obsolutly needed.
    >
    > Python seems simple enough. HOwever, I already know PHP. Also, continuing
    > with php would allow me to improve on my php skills.


    Don't give up on Python. It's win32 and COM support walk all over PHPs.
    PHP would be ok for dealing with text files and managing directories etc,
    but if you want to script Excel and Windows objects plus edit registries
    etc Python would be much better. It might be harder work getting PHP to do
    what you want than learning Python.

    Python on Windows:
    http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythonwin32/
    http://www.python.org/windows/win32/
    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python?kwd=System

    Some Excel examples:
    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/325735
    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/192914

    Beginners guide to Python
    http://www.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide

    Good luck!

    --
    Cheers
    Anton
    AD., Feb 15, 2005
    #8
  9. Adder Guest

    In article <> in nz.comp on Wed,
    16 Feb 2005 10:38:10 +1300, AD. <> says...
    > On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:25:08 -0800, danarz wrote:
    >
    > > I never realized that I'll get that much response.
    > >
    > > Can anyone tell me if it is possible to simply have PHP run on windows
    > > without a server. I guess the correct term is "stand alon" php.

    >
    > You mean as a general scripting language? I know it can be done on Unix
    > like machines - it might be able to on Windows as well.
    >
    > http://www.phpbuilder.com/columns/darrell20000319.php3
    > http://www.zend.com/zend/spotlight/shellscriptingp1.php
    >
    > Keep in mind that it won't be as good as Perl or Python for this.


    you can instal;l apache with php on a qwindows desktop
    i suppose that is still a server
    there is a command line version of php
    Adder, Feb 16, 2005
    #9
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