Server issues

Discussion in 'MCSE' started by Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.], Nov 5, 2007.

  1. Today, my client's Windows 2000 Server freaked out. 3 weeks ago, I added
    4 new user accounts with roaming profiles and mapped drives to user
    folders on the server. All user data (My Documents) was stored on the
    server in there user folders. Today, those 4 accounts and their
    respected folders disappeared from the server. No trace of evidence was
    in the Event Viewer. Nothing.

    On top of that, I could not log on to any domain account from any of the
    computers. The error message stated that the computer account for this
    primary domain was missing. So I logged in locally and rejoined the
    computers to the domain.

    Any idea what in the world happened -- especially to the 4 new accounts,
    their profiles and folders?

    --
    Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
     
    Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.], Nov 5, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Did someone delete the container the accounts were in on another DC before
    replication occured?

    --
    ..rev

    "It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without
    accepting it"
    ~Aristotle
    ..
    "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote in
    message news:%23XbGF$$...
    > Today, my client's Windows 2000 Server freaked out. 3 weeks ago, I added 4
    > new user accounts with roaming profiles and mapped drives to user folders
    > on the server. All user data (My Documents) was stored on the server in
    > there user folders. Today, those 4 accounts and their respected folders
    > disappeared from the server. No trace of evidence was in the Event Viewer.
    > Nothing.
    >
    > On top of that, I could not log on to any domain account from any of the
    > computers. The error message stated that the computer account for this
    > primary domain was missing. So I logged in locally and rejoined the
    > computers to the domain.
    >
    > Any idea what in the world happened -- especially to the 4 new accounts,
    > their profiles and folders?
    >
    > --
    > Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    > Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    > microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
    >
    >
     
    The Rev [MCT], Nov 5, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. "The Rev [MCT]" <> wrote in message
    news:#J#:

    > Did someone delete the container the accounts were in on another DC before
    > replication occured?
    >
    > --
    > .rev
    >
    > "It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without
    > accepting it"
    > ~Aristotle
    > .
    > "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote in
    > message news:%23XbGF$$...
    > > Today, my client's Windows 2000 Server freaked out. 3 weeks ago, I added 4
    > > new user accounts with roaming profiles and mapped drives to user folders
    > > on the server. All user data (My Documents) was stored on the server in
    > > there user folders. Today, those 4 accounts and their respected folders
    > > disappeared from the server. No trace of evidence was in the Event Viewer.
    > > Nothing.
    > >
    > > On top of that, I could not log on to any domain account from any of the
    > > computers. The error message stated that the computer account for this
    > > primary domain was missing. So I logged in locally and rejoined the
    > > computers to the domain.
    > >
    > > Any idea what in the world happened -- especially to the 4 new accounts,
    > > their profiles and folders?
    > >
    > > --
    > > Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    > > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > > CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    > > Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    > > microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
    > >
    > >


    Nope. This is a single server environment.

    --
    Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
     
    Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.], Nov 6, 2007
    #3
  4. Well if there are no Audit logs, no accounts and no user data maybe you only
    thought you did it. Mayhbe it was a dream and then you woke up.

    --
    ..rev

    "It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without
    accepting it"
    ~Aristotle
    ..
    "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote in
    message news:%...
    > "The Rev [MCT]" <> wrote in message
    > news:#J#:
    >
    >> Did someone delete the container the accounts were in on another DC
    >> before
    >> replication occured?
    >>
    >> --
    >> .rev
    >>
    >> "It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought
    >> without
    >> accepting it"
    >> ~Aristotle
    >> .
    >> "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote
    >> in
    >> message news:%23XbGF$$...
    >> > Today, my client's Windows 2000 Server freaked out. 3 weeks ago, I
    >> > added 4
    >> > new user accounts with roaming profiles and mapped drives to user
    >> > folders
    >> > on the server. All user data (My Documents) was stored on the server in
    >> > there user folders. Today, those 4 accounts and their respected folders
    >> > disappeared from the server. No trace of evidence was in the Event
    >> > Viewer.
    >> > Nothing.
    >> >
    >> > On top of that, I could not log on to any domain account from any of
    >> > the
    >> > computers. The error message stated that the computer account for this
    >> > primary domain was missing. So I logged in locally and rejoined the
    >> > computers to the domain.
    >> >
    >> > Any idea what in the world happened -- especially to the 4 new
    >> > accounts,
    >> > their profiles and folders?
    >> >
    >> > --
    >> > Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    >> > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    >> > CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    >> > Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    >> > microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
    >> >
    >> >

    >
    > Nope. This is a single server environment.
    >
    > --
    > Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    > Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    > microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
    >
    >
     
    The Rev [MCT], Nov 6, 2007
    #4
  5. "The Rev [MCT]" <> wrote in message
    news::

    > Well if there are no Audit logs, no accounts and no user data maybe you only
    > thought you did it. Mayhbe it was a dream and then you woke up.
    >
    > --
    > .rev
    >
    > "It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without
    > accepting it"
    > ~Aristotle
    > .
    > "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote in
    > message news:%...
    > > "The Rev [MCT]" <> wrote in message
    > > news:#J#:
    > >
    > >> Did someone delete the container the accounts were in on another DC
    > >> before
    > >> replication occured?
    > >>
    > >> --
    > >> .rev
    > >>
    > >> "It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought
    > >> without
    > >> accepting it"
    > >> ~Aristotle
    > >> .
    > >> "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote
    > >> in
    > >> message news:%23XbGF$$...
    > >> > Today, my client's Windows 2000 Server freaked out. 3 weeks ago, I
    > >> > added 4
    > >> > new user accounts with roaming profiles and mapped drives to user
    > >> > folders
    > >> > on the server. All user data (My Documents) was stored on the server in
    > >> > there user folders. Today, those 4 accounts and their respected folders
    > >> > disappeared from the server. No trace of evidence was in the Event
    > >> > Viewer.
    > >> > Nothing.
    > >> >
    > >> > On top of that, I could not log on to any domain account from any of
    > >> > the
    > >> > computers. The error message stated that the computer account for this
    > >> > primary domain was missing. So I logged in locally and rejoined the
    > >> > computers to the domain.
    > >> >
    > >> > Any idea what in the world happened -- especially to the 4 new
    > >> > accounts,
    > >> > their profiles and folders?
    > >> >
    > >> > --
    > >> > Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    > >> > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > >> > CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    > >> > Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    > >> > microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
    > >> >
    > >> >

    > >
    > > Nope. This is a single server environment.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    > > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > > CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    > > Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    > > microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
    > >
    > >


    That was the first thing I said! However the 4 new users had been
    operating for 3 weeks, then poof. Gone right along with their home
    folders, profiles and data.

    --
    Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
     
    Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.], Nov 6, 2007
    #5
  6. "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote in
    message news:%23XbGF$$...
    > Today, my client's Windows 2000 Server freaked out. 3 weeks ago, I added 4
    > new user accounts with roaming profiles and mapped drives to user folders
    > on the server. All user data (My Documents) was stored on the server in
    > there user folders. Today, those 4 accounts and their respected folders
    > disappeared from the server. No trace of evidence was in the Event Viewer.
    > Nothing.
    >
    > On top of that, I could not log on to any domain account from any of the
    > computers. The error message stated that the computer account for this
    > primary domain was missing. So I logged in locally and rejoined the
    > computers to the domain.
    >
    > Any idea what in the world happened -- especially to the 4 new accounts,
    > their profiles and folders?
    >
    > --
    > Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    > Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    > microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
    >
    >


    No mention of whether you back up data or the AD...
     
    Vaughan Butler, Nov 6, 2007
    #6
  7. Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]

    CBIC Guest

    "The Rev [MCT]" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Well if there are no Audit logs, no accounts and no user data maybe you
    > only thought you did it. Mayhbe it was a dream and then you woke up.
    >


    I blame the Rev's bonus.
     
    CBIC, Nov 6, 2007
    #7
  8. Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]

    JaR Guest

    CBIC wrote:

    >
    > "The Rev [MCT]" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Well if there are no Audit logs, no accounts and no user data maybe
    > > you only thought you did it. Mayhbe it was a dream and then you
    > > woke up.
    > >

    >
    > I blame the Rev's bonus.


    And Neil, of course.

    --
    JaR
    But mostly the bonus
    Remove hat to reply
     
    JaR, Nov 6, 2007
    #8
  9. Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]

    Consultant Guest

    who else has admin permissions to your server? are there any new admin
    accounts on it?

    "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote in
    message news:%23XbGF$$...
    > Today, my client's Windows 2000 Server freaked out. 3 weeks ago, I added 4
    > new user accounts with roaming profiles and mapped drives to user folders
    > on the server. All user data (My Documents) was stored on the server in
    > there user folders. Today, those 4 accounts and their respected folders
    > disappeared from the server. No trace of evidence was in the Event Viewer.
    > Nothing.
    >
    > On top of that, I could not log on to any domain account from any of the
    > computers. The error message stated that the computer account for this
    > primary domain was missing. So I logged in locally and rejoined the
    > computers to the domain.
    >
    > Any idea what in the world happened -- especially to the 4 new accounts,
    > their profiles and folders?
    >
    > --
    > Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    > Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    > microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
    >
    >
     
    Consultant, Nov 6, 2007
    #9
  10. "Consultant" <> wrote in message
    news::

    > who else has admin permissions to your server? are there any new admin
    > accounts on it?
    >
    > "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote in
    > message news:%23XbGF$$...
    > > Today, my client's Windows 2000 Server freaked out. 3 weeks ago, I added 4
    > > new user accounts with roaming profiles and mapped drives to user folders
    > > on the server. All user data (My Documents) was stored on the server in
    > > there user folders. Today, those 4 accounts and their respected folders
    > > disappeared from the server. No trace of evidence was in the Event Viewer.
    > > Nothing.
    > >
    > > On top of that, I could not log on to any domain account from any of the
    > > computers. The error message stated that the computer account for this
    > > primary domain was missing. So I logged in locally and rejoined the
    > > computers to the domain.
    > >
    > > Any idea what in the world happened -- especially to the 4 new accounts,
    > > their profiles and folders?
    > >
    > > --
    > > Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    > > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > > CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    > > Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    > > microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
    > >
    > >


    One admin account. 2 people know it (including myself). No new admin
    accounts. To be honest, and if it were possible, it looks like someone
    did a Windows XP System Restore to an earlier date! It started Saturday
    around 3pm. Noticeable on Monday when everyone tried to log in. When I
    got that fixed by rejoining all the computer back to the domain, I
    noticed the 4 newest account (about 3 weeks old) were completely gone --
    along with their profiles. Today I noticed the mirror failed. So I
    imported the "foreign disk" and reactivated the mirror. I really think
    it is time for another server, but just want to understand what exactly
    happened.

    --
    Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
     
    Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.], Nov 6, 2007
    #10
  11. no doubt about it

    --
    ..rev

    "It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without
    accepting it"
    ~Aristotle
    ..
    "CBIC" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "The Rev [MCT]" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Well if there are no Audit logs, no accounts and no user data maybe you
    >> only thought you did it. Mayhbe it was a dream and then you woke up.
    >>

    >
    > I blame the Rev's bonus.
    >
     
    The Rev [MCT], Nov 7, 2007
    #11
  12. Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]

    LRM Guest

    "CBIC" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "The Rev [MCT]" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Well if there are no Audit logs, no accounts and no user data maybe you
    >> only thought you did it. Mayhbe it was a dream and then you woke up.
    >>

    >
    > I blame the Rev's bonus.
    >

    I had some network weirdness recently I believe I would also like to blame
    the Rev's bonus. Oh and all of Canadia as well, not just Neil.
     
    LRM, Nov 7, 2007
    #12
  13. Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]

    LRM Guest

    "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    > "Consultant" <> wrote in message
    > news::
    >
    >> who else has admin permissions to your server? are there any new admin
    >> accounts on it?
    >>
    >> "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote
    >> in
    >> message news:%23XbGF$$...
    >> > Today, my client's Windows 2000 Server freaked out. 3 weeks ago, I
    >> > added 4
    >> > new user accounts with roaming profiles and mapped drives to user
    >> > folders
    >> > on the server. All user data (My Documents) was stored on the server in
    >> > there user folders. Today, those 4 accounts and their respected folders
    >> > disappeared from the server. No trace of evidence was in the Event
    >> > Viewer.
    >> > Nothing.
    >> >
    >> > On top of that, I could not log on to any domain account from any of
    >> > the
    >> > computers. The error message stated that the computer account for this
    >> > primary domain was missing. So I logged in locally and rejoined the
    >> > computers to the domain.
    >> >
    >> > Any idea what in the world happened -- especially to the 4 new
    >> > accounts,
    >> > their profiles and folders?
    >> >
    >> > --
    >> > Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    >> > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    >> > CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    >> > Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    >> > microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
    >> >
    >> >

    >
    > One admin account. 2 people know it (including myself). No new admin
    > accounts. To be honest, and if it were possible, it looks like someone did
    > a Windows XP System Restore to an earlier date! It started Saturday around
    > 3pm. Noticeable on Monday when everyone tried to log in. When I got that
    > fixed by rejoining all the computer back to the domain, I noticed the 4
    > newest account (about 3 weeks old) were completely gone --
    > along with their profiles. Today I noticed the mirror failed. So I
    > imported the "foreign disk" and reactivated the mirror. I really think it
    > is time for another server, but just want to understand what exactly
    > happened.
    >

    In your situation you have too many variables to permit a logically derived
    answer from any forum. You would need to fully disclose all events, get some
    scalding water and the other admin in the room as well. In your situation,
    you could have an admin gone bad, as well as a mirrored set that didn't
    function properly, along with someone let loose on the network with a ghost
    image. You do not have control of your client and need to get control fast
    or drop them all together. You cannot manage a network without having
    security in place, the first being no one will touch the network without an
    independent login. Dude, seriously what are you doing there?
     
    LRM, Nov 7, 2007
    #13
  14. "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote in
    news::

    > One admin account. 2 people know it


    Have you heard of "Waterboarding?" This technique can be used to make the
    other party fess up to his/her crimes if they are still claiming they did
    nothing to your server.
     
    Red Swingline Stapler, Nov 7, 2007
    #14
  15. Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]

    TBone Guest

    And on the eigth day "LRM" <> did cause the
    electrons to come together and form the following words:

    > You do not have control of
    > your client and need to get control fast or drop them all together.
    > You cannot manage a network without having security in place, the
    > first being no one will touch the network without an independent
    > login. Dude, seriously what are you doing there?


    Because these are the type of clients who provide the most business.
    Particularly of the "I know you told us we neeed to change this and now we
    see why. Can you come in on overtime to fix this?" type.

    Provide you cover your, um, assets, of course.

    -------

    T-Bone
    MCNGP XL
     
    TBone, Nov 7, 2007
    #15
  16. "LRM" <> wrote in message
    news:#J$:

    > "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote in
    > message news:...
    > > "Consultant" <> wrote in message
    > > news::
    > >
    > >> who else has admin permissions to your server? are there any new admin
    > >> accounts on it?
    > >>
    > >> "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote
    > >> in
    > >> message news:%23XbGF$$...
    > >> > Today, my client's Windows 2000 Server freaked out. 3 weeks ago, I
    > >> > added 4
    > >> > new user accounts with roaming profiles and mapped drives to user
    > >> > folders
    > >> > on the server. All user data (My Documents) was stored on the server in
    > >> > there user folders. Today, those 4 accounts and their respected folders
    > >> > disappeared from the server. No trace of evidence was in the Event
    > >> > Viewer.
    > >> > Nothing.
    > >> >
    > >> > On top of that, I could not log on to any domain account from any of
    > >> > the
    > >> > computers. The error message stated that the computer account for this
    > >> > primary domain was missing. So I logged in locally and rejoined the
    > >> > computers to the domain.
    > >> >
    > >> > Any idea what in the world happened -- especially to the 4 new
    > >> > accounts,
    > >> > their profiles and folders?
    > >> >
    > >> > --
    > >> > Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    > >> > The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    > >> > CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    > >> > Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    > >> > microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
    > >> >
    > >> >

    > >
    > > One admin account. 2 people know it (including myself). No new admin
    > > accounts. To be honest, and if it were possible, it looks like someone did
    > > a Windows XP System Restore to an earlier date! It started Saturday around
    > > 3pm. Noticeable on Monday when everyone tried to log in. When I got that
    > > fixed by rejoining all the computer back to the domain, I noticed the 4
    > > newest account (about 3 weeks old) were completely gone --
    > > along with their profiles. Today I noticed the mirror failed. So I
    > > imported the "foreign disk" and reactivated the mirror. I really think it
    > > is time for another server, but just want to understand what exactly
    > > happened.
    > >

    > In your situation you have too many variables to permit a logically derived
    > answer from any forum. You would need to fully disclose all events, get some
    > scalding water and the other admin in the room as well. In your situation,
    > you could have an admin gone bad, as well as a mirrored set that didn't
    > function properly, along with someone let loose on the network with a ghost
    > image. You do not have control of your client and need to get control fast
    > or drop them all together. You cannot manage a network without having
    > security in place, the first being no one will touch the network without an
    > independent login. Dude, seriously what are you doing there?


    It not as bad as that. And the setup is quite simple. The only thing
    this server is for is authentication, and file and print sharing. The
    clients do not touch the server. The only other person that knows the
    admin password only knows it for fault tolerance (meaning if I cannot be
    reached). There is nothing that indicates this behavior in the event
    viewer.

    The clients themselves are not the issue. But I totally agree with you
    concerning the situation. If I did not trust them, or they did not
    adhere to my networking rules, I would not have them as clients. I am
    not in the business of babysitting.

    There is just not enough evidence (really none at all) to figure out
    what happened. I was wondering if anyone had come across this before. I
    researched it on the Internet and found that my first issue of not being
    able to access the domain from client computers was solved by logging in
    locally and rejoining them again. This was the fix, but nothing stated
    why it happened in the first place. As for the user accounts
    disappearing along with profiles and home directories, I have came
    across nothing.

    --
    Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
     
    Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.], Nov 7, 2007
    #16
  17. "Red Swingline Stapler" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns99E1509B8E227nowaycom@207.46.248.16:

    > "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    > > One admin account. 2 people know it

    >
    > Have you heard of "Waterboarding?" This technique can be used to make the
    > other party fess up to his/her crimes if they are still claiming they did
    > nothing to your server.


    Although it is fun and entertaining, torture is not a reliable. When
    pain of any sort is involved, you can get anyone to say anything you
    want. However, still good entertainment.

    --
    Michael D. Alligood, MCITP, MCTS, MCSA, MCDST
    The I.T. Classroom - http://www.theitclassroom.com/
    CertGuard, Inc. - http://www.certguard.com/
    Microsoft Exam Security Newsgroup -
    microsoft.public.certification.exam.security
     
    Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.], Nov 7, 2007
    #17
  18. Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]

    John R Guest

    "Michael D. Alligood [CertGuard, Inc.]" <> wrote in
    message news:%...

    > Although it is fun and entertaining, torture is not a reliable. When pain
    > of any sort is involved, you can get anyone to say anything you want.
    > However, still good entertainment.
    >


    Hey, if it was good enough for my wife to get me to propose...

    John R
     
    John R, Nov 7, 2007
    #18
    1. Advertising

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