Serious Questions about Athlon XP

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Computerdom, May 8, 2004.

  1. Computerdom

    Computerdom Guest

    Have always been impressed with the Athlon, yet old habbits die hard.
    We are
    expanding & need additional desktops. Have ruled out Celerons as
    always, but
    the cost between Athlon & P4 makes a difference now. Have been told
    that Athlons run hot can become unstable & are generaly not as
    reliable as Intel.

    Also the same "experts" inform me that after thermal cooling, shims &
    other
    cooling solutions are installed, the price differntial shrinks. Do we
    need
    all of this to maintain longevity & stability ? We are implementing
    the
    boxes mainly for running small network apps & light word processing /
    web coding. Should we just bite the bullet & stick with Intel ?

    Thanks in advance. Alan
     
    Computerdom, May 8, 2004
    #1
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  2. Computerdom

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    (Computerdom) wrote in
    news::

    > Have always been impressed with the Athlon, yet old habbits die hard.
    > We are
    > expanding & need additional desktops. Have ruled out Celerons as
    > always, but
    > the cost between Athlon & P4 makes a difference now. Have been told
    > that Athlons run hot can become unstable & are generaly not as
    > reliable as Intel.


    You have been told wrong. Intel now has the heat crown with the
    Prescott, which hits temps as high as 73C during normal usage with decent
    cooling. The hottest Athlon (XP, 64, any model) rarely breaks 60C.

    AMD is reliable enough a chipmaker that before AMD made their own chips
    they used to make chips for Intel. There is a reason that a company like
    Cray would choose AMD to power their new supercomputer, and it isn't
    because of instability, if you catch my drift ;)

    > Also the same "experts" inform me that after thermal cooling, shims &
    > other
    > cooling solutions are installed, the price differntial shrinks. Do we
    > need
    > all of this to maintain longevity & stability ? We are implementing
    > the
    > boxes mainly for running small network apps & light word processing /
    > web coding. Should we just bite the bullet & stick with Intel ?


    At no point do you need thermal cooling (above and beyond what comes in
    the box with the retail AMD package), a shim, or other cooling solutions
    to keep your AMD system within operating temperatures. You don't need
    any of it. I would have to say whoever in your IT department that is
    making decisions and coming to these conclusions is either heavily "Pro
    Intel" and doesn't care about costs but just blindly thinks Intel is
    better value, or they are a moron. Either way, you can safely ignore
    their opinion on anything related to computing.

    --
    website: http://www.demonlag.com
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email:
     
    DeMoN LaG, May 8, 2004
    #2
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  3. Computerdom

    Plato Guest

    DeMoN LaG wrote:
    >
    > better value, or they are a moron. Either way, you can safely ignore
    > their opinion on anything related to computing.


    Agreed.
     
    Plato, May 8, 2004
    #3
  4. Computerdom

    Michael-NC Guest

    Your information is outdated by 5 years and even then, it was FUD (fear,
    uncertainty and doubt) put out by Intel that launched these notions into the
    public domain. Anyone who believes them is simply naive, gullible or
    uninformed. AMD is every bit the equal to Intel and in many cases they are
    the better solution.


    "Computerdom" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Have always been impressed with the Athlon, yet old habbits die hard.
    > We are
    > expanding & need additional desktops. Have ruled out Celerons as
    > always, but
    > the cost between Athlon & P4 makes a difference now. Have been told
    > that Athlons run hot can become unstable & are generaly not as
    > reliable as Intel.
    >
    > Also the same "experts" inform me that after thermal cooling, shims &
    > other
    > cooling solutions are installed, the price differntial shrinks. Do we
    > need
    > all of this to maintain longevity & stability ? We are implementing
    > the
    > boxes mainly for running small network apps & light word processing /
    > web coding. Should we just bite the bullet & stick with Intel ?
    >
    > Thanks in advance. Alan
     
    Michael-NC, May 8, 2004
    #4
  5. Computerdom

    Wizard Guest

    Computerdom wrote:
    >
    > Have always been impressed with the Athlon, yet old habbits die hard.
    > We are
    > expanding & need additional desktops. Have ruled out Celerons as
    > always, but
    > the cost between Athlon & P4 makes a difference now. Have been told
    > that Athlons run hot can become unstable & are generaly not as
    > reliable as Intel.


    Run hotter but every bit as good as Intel and just as reliable.

    >
    > Also the same "experts" inform me that after thermal cooling, shims &
    > other
    > cooling solutions are installed, the price differntial shrinks. Do we
    > need
    > all of this to maintain longevity & stability ? We are implementing
    > the
    > boxes mainly for running small network apps & light word processing /
    > web coding. Should we just bite the bullet & stick with Intel ?


    Athlons need a good fan and heat sink $15 which does not out way the 200
    - 300 dollar savings!

    >
    > Thanks in advance. Alan
     
    Wizard, May 10, 2004
    #5
  6. Computerdom

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    Wizard <> wrote in news:409F61A7.A8758F77
    @stinking.ads.com:

    > Run hotter but every bit as good as Intel and just as reliable.


    You are running behind the times, wiz. The new hot chip on the market is
    the Intel Prescott P4

    > Athlons need a good fan and heat sink $15 which does not out way the 200
    > - 300 dollar savings!


    I've never seen a case where more than the standard HSF that comes with the
    Athlon is not enough. I know cases where I used a different one because it
    was more powerful (higher overclocking) or because it was quieter, but it
    was never a necessity.

    --
    website: http://www.demonlag.com
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email:
     
    DeMoN LaG, May 10, 2004
    #6
  7. Computerdom

    ProfGene Guest

    I have been using Athlons for years and never had an overheating problem as
    long as I use the proper fan rated for the processor. The computers in
    question run most of the day and into the night without overheating.
    "Computerdom" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Have always been impressed with the Athlon, yet old habbits die hard.
    > We are
    > expanding & need additional desktops. Have ruled out Celerons as
    > always, but
    > the cost between Athlon & P4 makes a difference now. Have been told
    > that Athlons run hot can become unstable & are generaly not as
    > reliable as Intel.
    >
    > Also the same "experts" inform me that after thermal cooling, shims &
    > other
    > cooling solutions are installed, the price differntial shrinks. Do we
    > need
    > all of this to maintain longevity & stability ? We are implementing
    > the
    > boxes mainly for running small network apps & light word processing /
    > web coding. Should we just bite the bullet & stick with Intel ?
    >
    > Thanks in advance. Alan
     
    ProfGene, May 10, 2004
    #7
  8. Computerdom

    Thor Guest

    "DeMoN LaG" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns94E571B54C78AWobbly@208.42.66.156...
    > Wizard <> wrote in news:409F61A7.A8758F77
    > @stinking.ads.com:
    >
    > > Run hotter but every bit as good as Intel and just as reliable.

    >
    > You are running behind the times, wiz. The new hot chip on the market is
    > the Intel Prescott P4
    >
    > > Athlons need a good fan and heat sink $15 which does not out way the 200
    > > - 300 dollar savings!

    >
    > I've never seen a case where more than the standard HSF that comes with

    the
    > Athlon is not enough.


    The stock AMD fan that came with my XP2000 Palomino core chip wasn't enough.
    In the summer months, when room temps got up to 78-80F, I would get
    heat-related lockups, and the temp would peak at 65C or so when the lockups
    would occur. I replaced the stock 60mm AMD-supplied fan with a more powerful
    60mm fan and all was well. This happened with two different tower cases, all
    wires were tied out of the way to keep from obstructing air, and there were
    4 case ventillation fans supporting the damn thing, no less. 2 in, and 2 out
    with a nice front-to-back airflow. The really thin AMD fan running at
    4600RPM just couldn't push enough air across the stock heatsink to keep it
    cool. Palomino chips are rather hotheaded anyway. Have a T-Bred chip now.
    Runs considerably cooler. I think the stock fan wouldn't have had any
    trouble with this one. But for the other one, the stock fan definitely left
    something to be desired.
     
    Thor, May 10, 2004
    #8
  9. Computerdom

    willah Guest

    "ProfGene" <> wrote in message news:<c7odt9$6q3f$>...
    > I have been using Athlons for years and never had an overheating problem as
    > long as I use the proper fan rated for the processor. The computers in
    > question run most of the day and into the night without overheating.
    > "Computerdom" <> wrote in message


    Indeed, in standby my T-bird gets as low as 32 degrees celcius and
    even with only a single 80mm fan in the case the highest I've ever
    seen it was 61 degrees and that was after a solid three hours of
    gaming. I do use the bundled cooling and it is certainly more than
    sufficient for even a bit of overclocking.
     
    willah, May 10, 2004
    #9
  10. Computerdom

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    "Thor" <> wrote in news::

    > Runs considerably cooler. I think the stock fan wouldn't have had any
    > trouble with this one. But for the other one, the stock fan definitely
    > left something to be desired.
    >


    This is a valid concern I suppose. I noticed that AMD's new HSF (like, the
    one that came with my 2500+) has a copper base to it. Or it is just
    colored aluminum.

    --
    website: http://www.demonlag.com
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email:
     
    DeMoN LaG, May 11, 2004
    #10
  11. Computerdom

    Thor Guest

    "DeMoN LaG" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns94E5EC3B3B2CWobbly@208.42.66.156...
    > "Thor" <> wrote in news::
    >
    > > Runs considerably cooler. I think the stock fan wouldn't have had any
    > > trouble with this one. But for the other one, the stock fan definitely
    > > left something to be desired.
    > >

    >
    > This is a valid concern I suppose. I noticed that AMD's new HSF (like,

    the
    > one that came with my 2500+) has a copper base to it. Or it is just
    > colored aluminum.


    My heatsink was all aluminum, and had the standard thermal transfer square
    of goop on the bottom, and I took the utmost precaution in mounting the HSF
    to the CPU to ensure it was fitted perfectly, so I know the mounting job was
    not the problem. IMHO, the fan supplied with the CPU was rather wimpy for a
    CPU fan. It was very shallow, and seemed a bit on the cheap side,
    construction-wise. I think the fans supplied with Intel chips are definitely
    nicer, more aggressive units. The AMD supplied fan didn't seem to be much
    better quality than most of the really cheap fans I've seen over the years.
    I often wonder if that could be contributing to some of the opinions of AMDs
    being overheat-prone. The fan I replaced it with was about 1/3rd taller, so
    the blades were larger, and the RPM was much higher (over 5200RPM). It
    really moves the air over the heatsink. To give you an idea, with the stock
    fan I was also getting a lot of dust buildup on the really closely spaced
    heatsink fins. I would often have to blow them off with canned air, about
    once a month because I would notice a rise in temperature over and above
    what it normally would run at. But, in the summer months, dust, or no dust,
    it would still overheat. With the new fan, dust doesn't accumulate nearly as
    much because the air velocity is so much higher it simply doesn't stick to
    the fins as easily. I blame the fan primarily because despite using two
    different cases, and 4 case fans in several different configurations of
    airflow, I could not make this thing stay cool enough to stop the lockups,
    (which only happened during hard gaming, I might add) until I changed the
    CPU fan. The systems I sell, never use the stock AMD fan/sink. They all use
    more aggressive CPU fans, and I've never had any trouble with those
    overheating, and they only use two 80mm case fans for case extra
    ventillation.
     
    Thor, May 11, 2004
    #11
  12. Computerdom

    Michael-NC Guest

    Nor have I ever needed more than the stock HSF for an AMD product and I've
    had multiple builds of 650, 750, 1000, 1,200 and 1,300 MHz CPU's as well as
    2100, 2500, 2600, 2800 and 3200 XP units and have never had a heat problem.
    That included systems with only 1- 80 mm fan mounted in the rear of a tower.



    "DeMoN LaG" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns94E571B54C78AWobbly@208.42.66.156...
    > Wizard <> wrote in news:409F61A7.A8758F77
    > @stinking.ads.com:
    >
    > > Run hotter but every bit as good as Intel and just as reliable.

    >
    > You are running behind the times, wiz. The new hot chip on the market is
    > the Intel Prescott P4
    >
    > > Athlons need a good fan and heat sink $15 which does not out way the 200
    > > - 300 dollar savings!

    >
    > I've never seen a case where more than the standard HSF that comes with

    the
    > Athlon is not enough. I know cases where I used a different one because

    it
    > was more powerful (higher overclocking) or because it was quieter, but it
    > was never a necessity.
    >
    > --
    > website: http://www.demonlag.com
    > AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    > email:
     
    Michael-NC, May 12, 2004
    #12
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