Serious OT: Be Afraid, Very Afraid - Orwell's 1984 is Under Construction

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Freedom&Liberty, Apr 21, 2005.

  1. Released today:
    -Secret Actions Being Taken To Create A Global Surveillance Society.
    -Process driven by the United States......

    -read this:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/21/icam_surveillance_report/

    -full report here:
    http://www.statewatch.org/news/2005/apr/icams-report.pdf

    -summary here:
    http://www.statewatch.org/news/2005/apr/icams-exec-summary.pdf

    <quote>
    THE EMERGENCE OF A GLOBAL INFRASTRUCTURE
    FOR MASS REGISTRATION AND SURVEILLANCE

    Global security and the “war on terror†now dominate the global
    political agenda. Driven largely by the United States, a growing web
    of anti-terrorism and security measures are being adopted by nations
    around the world. This new “security†paradigm is being used to roll
    back freedom and increase police powers in order to exercise
    increasing control over individuals and populations.

    Within this context, governments have begun to construct, through
    numerous initiatives, what amounts to a global registration and
    surveillance infrastructure. This infrastructure would ensure that
    populations around the world are registered, that travel is tracked
    globally, that electronic communications and transactions can be
    easily monitored, and that all the information that is collected in
    public and private databases about individuals is stored, linked,
    data-mined, and made available to state security agents.

    The object of the infrastructure is not ordinary police work, but mass
    surveillance of entire populations. In its technological capacity and
    global reach, it is an unprecedented project of social control.
    Already, the United States and other countries are aggressively using
    information gathered and shared through this infrastructure to crack
    down on dissent, close borders to refugees and activists, and seize
    and detain people without reasonable grounds.

    And, all of this is taking place at a time when the U.S. and its
    allies are maintaining a system of secret and extraterritorial prisons
    around the world, in which unknown numbers of prisoners are facing
    indefinite, arbitrary detention and torture.

    It is time for the public to take stock of the road that governments
    are leading us down with these new registration and surveillance
    initiatives. The ten “signposts†described below show just how far
    down the road we have already traveled, and the dangers that lie
    ahead for all of us if we fail to make governments turn back....
    </quote>
    Freedom&Liberty, Apr 21, 2005
    #1
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  2. Freedom&Liberty

    trout Guest

    Freedom&Liberty wrote:

    > Released today:


    Were you? Prematurely, it seems.
    --
    There's no real 'cure'. You must continue to take the medication.
    trout, Apr 21, 2005
    #2
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  3. Freedom&Liberty

    Old Gringo Guest

    Freedom&Liberty wrote:
    > Released today:
    > -Secret Actions Being Taken To Create A Global Surveillance Society.
    > -Process driven by the United States......
    >
    > -read this:
    > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/21/icam_surveillance_report/
    >
    > -full report here:
    > http://www.statewatch.org/news/2005/apr/icams-report.pdf
    >
    > -summary here:
    > http://www.statewatch.org/news/2005/apr/icams-exec-summary.pdf
    >
    > <quote>
    > THE EMERGENCE OF A GLOBAL INFRASTRUCTURE
    > FOR MASS REGISTRATION AND SURVEILLANCE
    >
    > Global security and the “war on terror†now dominate the global
    > political agenda. Driven largely by the United States, a growing web
    > of anti-terrorism and security measures are being adopted by nations
    > around the world. This new “security†paradigm is being used to roll
    > back freedom and increase police powers in order to exercise
    > increasing control over individuals and populations.
    >
    > Within this context, governments have begun to construct, through
    > numerous initiatives, what amounts to a global registration and
    > surveillance infrastructure. This infrastructure would ensure that
    > populations around the world are registered, that travel is tracked
    > globally, that electronic communications and transactions can be
    > easily monitored, and that all the information that is collected in
    > public and private databases about individuals is stored, linked,
    > data-mined, and made available to state security agents.
    >
    > The object of the infrastructure is not ordinary police work, but mass
    > surveillance of entire populations. In its technological capacity and
    > global reach, it is an unprecedented project of social control.
    > Already, the United States and other countries are aggressively using
    > information gathered and shared through this infrastructure to crack
    > down on dissent, close borders to refugees and activists, and seize
    > and detain people without reasonable grounds.
    >
    > And, all of this is taking place at a time when the U.S. and its
    > allies are maintaining a system of secret and extraterritorial prisons
    > around the world, in which unknown numbers of prisoners are facing
    > indefinite, arbitrary detention and torture.
    >
    > It is time for the public to take stock of the road that governments
    > are leading us down with these new registration and surveillance
    > initiatives. The ten “signposts†described below show just how far
    > down the road we have already traveled, and the dangers that lie
    > ahead for all of us if we fail to make governments turn back....
    > </quote>

    I am from a small town in a very remote part of the US where everyone
    knows everyone else business. I don't have a problem with this, as
    the last major crime committed in this town was back in 1883 by a
    stranger passing through. Some one needs to keep an eye on those who
    would rather not be seen and get away with what they please. What I
    do I would do in front of the world. What do you do?

    --
    Old Gringo George
    Magic Weaver Of Life
    Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
    Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-Industries.com>
    Old Gringo, Apr 21, 2005
    #3
  4. "Old Gringo" <> wrote in message
    news:MRU9e.1148$...
    [snip]
    > I am from a small town in a very remote part of the US where everyone
    > knows everyone else business.


    Irrelevant to government surveillance of individuals.

    > I don't have a problem with this, as the last major crime committed in
    > this town was back in 1883 by a stranger passing through. Some one needs
    > to keep an eye on those who would rather not be seen and get away with
    > what they please.


    So...you want a camera in your living room? Your bedroom?

    Ya know, the founders of the US were men from the time of the enlightenment.
    They knew all too well that the power of government must be limited.
    Franklin said (paraphrasing) that people who will trade little liberty for a
    little safety will have neither. I think old Ben was on the right track.


    > What I do I would do in front of the world. What do you do?


    Absolutely misses the point. Did Orwell's 1984 seem like a charming picture
    of the world to you?
    Oxford Systems, Apr 22, 2005
    #4
  5. "Freedom&Liberty" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Released today:
    > -Secret Actions Being Taken To Create A Global Surveillance Society.
    > -Process driven by the United States......
    >
    > -read this:
    > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/21/icam_surveillance_report/
    >
    > -full report here:
    > http://www.statewatch.org/news/2005/apr/icams-report.pdf
    >
    > -summary here:
    > http://www.statewatch.org/news/2005/apr/icams-exec-summary.pdf
    >
    > <quote>
    > THE EMERGENCE OF A GLOBAL INFRASTRUCTURE
    > FOR MASS REGISTRATION AND SURVEILLANCE
    >
    > Global security and the "war on terror" now dominate the global
    > political agenda. Driven largely by the United States, a growing web
    > of anti-terrorism and security measures are being adopted by nations
    > around the world. This new "security" paradigm is being used to roll
    > back freedom and increase police powers in order to exercise
    > increasing control over individuals and populations.


    [snip]

    People today are sheep. Most of them don't give a sh*t about abstract
    freedoms like freedom of thought, privacy, and speech. As long as they can
    get 118 channels to keep them entertained and the price of consumer goods
    keeps coming down, they'll gladly trade their last bit of liberty.

    We can be free or we can be safe. It's hard to be both. Until recently we've
    had something of a balance here in the US thanks to the limits on government
    power (most people don't seem to know or understand that we are supposed to
    have a "limited government" with powers that derive only from the consent of
    the governed) in the constitution. Now? Now people stand by like sheep and
    say "Keep us safe! Keep us safe!" and don't care in the least if someone is
    detained forever without charge or trial or if the authorities pass laws
    (unconstitutional on their face) which allow for warrantless searches.

    You'll hear "What do you have to hide?" from morons left and right. Funny
    thing is that is the sort of attitude which was part of the totalitarian
    USSR and is part of totalitarian regimes today. Guess it's easy to see what
    path we're on.

    "The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedience, and by
    parts." - Edmund Burke

    Put the frog in the pot of cold water and turn the heat up slowly. The frog
    will sit there until it's cooked. We're getting cooked and anyone who points
    out the rising temperature is regarded as a loon.
    Oxford Systems, Apr 22, 2005
    #5
  6. Freedom&Liberty

    Old Gringo Guest

    Oxford Systems wrote:
    > "Old Gringo" <> wrote in message
    > news:MRU9e.1148$...


    >> What I do I would do in front of the world. What do you do?

    >
    >
    > Absolutely misses the point. Did Orwell's 1984 seem like a charming picture
    > of the world to you?
    >
    >
    >
    >


    Don't mix fantasy with reality. Major US cities are full of cameras
    watching the people and I for one am damn glad they are. 36 miles
    west of where I live the US Border Patrol has a balloon high in the
    air visible for miles around. The cameras in that balloon can see
    the date on a dime anywhere within a 120 miles radius of it. I for
    one am damn glad of that also. I may have missed your point, but I
    did not miss mine, so as far as I am concerned the case is closed.
    --
    Old Gringo George
    Magic Weaver Of Life
    Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
    Freedom For The World <http://www.nuboy-Industries.com>
    Old Gringo, Apr 22, 2005
    #6
  7. Freedom&Liberty

    Joel Rubin Guest

    There are certainly aspects of 1984, especially after 9/11. But I
    should agree with the late humorist Jean Shepherd that we are moving
    much more towards the dystopia described in Huxley's "Brave New
    World". Big Brother won't be a giant nasty inspiring fear. He'll be a
    group of benevolent bureaucrats and Madison Avenue types, nicely
    suggesting your proper place in the world, despensing drugs and
    reprogramming when you aren't quite sure.
    Joel Rubin, Apr 22, 2005
    #7
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