Serial ATA

Discussion in 'A+ Certification' started by Newt, Jul 18, 2003.

  1. Newt

    Newt Guest

    Newt, Jul 18, 2003
    #1
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  2. Newt

    AD C Guest

    Newt wrote:

    > Anyone who would like to know more about SATA try here
    > http://www.serialata.org/
    >

    Thank you, I bookmarked the URL and well have a look tomorrow, when i am
    more awake. I want to know more about Serial ATA as my board supports them
     
    AD C, Jul 18, 2003
    #2
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  3. Newt

    Baffie Guest

    On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:13:45 +0100, "Newt" <> wrote:

    >Anyone who would like to know more about SATA try here
    >http://www.serialata.org/
    >
    >HTH
    >Newt
    >

    I must take a look at this website - there may well be an explanation
    on why such flimsy connectors were specified when it's pretty obvious
    how easy they can be broken.

    Please reply to newsgroup - it's not my address in the header!
     
    Baffie, Jul 19, 2003
    #3
  4. Newt

    AD C Guest

    Baffie wrote:

    > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:13:45 +0100, "Newt" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Anyone who would like to know more about SATA try here
    >>http://www.serialata.org/
    >>
    >>HTH
    >>Newt
    >>

    >
    > I must take a look at this website - there may well be an explanation
    > on why such flimsy connectors were specified when it's pretty obvious
    > how easy they can be broken.


    they do look flimsy, I must admit, I looked at the cable that came with
    my abit board, I suppose most of the time they are pluged in and left,so
    being flimsy is not a problem.

    You may be able to help me here, one day soon, in the future, when I got
    some money :) , I am looking to buy a Serial ATA drive. I know that
    you need a different data cable, but I also heard you need a convertor
    for the power lead, is that true?

    The only thing that came with my mother board is a data cable and a EIDE
    convertor so I can one my normal har drive on the Serial if I want to.
    See no need to do that yet, unles I was suign raid or I had all my EIDE
    ports filled.
     
    AD C, Jul 19, 2003
    #4
  5. Newt

    AD C Guest

    Robert Baer wrote:

    > Newt wrote:
    >
    >>Anyone who would like to know more about SATA try here
    >>http://www.serialata.org/
    >>
    >>HTH
    >>Newt

    >
    >
    > I think the "fuss" (or hype) is a bit over-rated at best.
    > For example, take a "ho-hum" parallel IDE data transfer rate of
    > 100Mbytes/sec, and make the false assumption that only data is
    > transferred via the cable.
    > Convert it to raw serial data, without any added control bits =
    > 800Mbits/sec or almost 1Ghz data rate.
    > Then add in the control functions, which translates to 1Ghz or more..
    > And the claim it is faster than parallel IDE????????????????????


    I will have a look at what you said when I am more awake and then try
    and understand it :)
     
    AD C, Jul 19, 2003
    #5
  6. Newt

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    Robert Baer <> wrote in
    news::

    > Convert it to raw serial data, without any added control bits =
    > 800Mbits/sec or almost 1Ghz data rate.
    > Then add in the control functions, which translates to 1Ghz or more..
    > And the claim it is faster than parallel IDE????????????????????


    See, the thing is right now SATA isn't really much faster (if any). The
    difference is that PATA is at the end of it's road, and has little future.
    SATA /can/ go faster when needed.
     
    DeMoN LaG, Jul 19, 2003
    #6
  7. Newt

    RussS Guest

    Consider todays serial ATA to be the equivalent as earlier ATA 33
    standards - 66 was an improvement and future SATA will be an improvement on
    current specs. Saying that my current setup with an ASUS P48SX board is
    much quicker and trouble free than my earlier version P4S333 with PATA
    drives - using the same RAM and processor.
     
    RussS, Jul 19, 2003
    #7
  8. Newt

    GB Guest

    "DeMoN LaG" <de_on-lag@co_cast.net> wrote in message
    news:Xns93BD33B95D03AWobbly@216.168.3.30...
    > Robert Baer <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    > > Convert it to raw serial data, without any added control bits =
    > > 800Mbits/sec or almost 1Ghz data rate.
    > > Then add in the control functions, which translates to 1Ghz or more..
    > > And the claim it is faster than parallel IDE????????????????????

    >
    > See, the thing is right now SATA isn't really much faster (if any). The
    > difference is that PATA is at the end of it's road, and has little future.
    > SATA /can/ go faster when needed.


    Surely, then, the message is to avoid SATA for now. Whatever hardware is
    bought now will presumably not work with the new faster standard when it
    comes out?

    Is this just hype-ware?
     
    GB, Jul 19, 2003
    #8
  9. "DeMoN LaG" <de_on-lag@co_cast.net> wrote in message
    news:Xns93BD33B95D03AWobbly@216.168.3.30...
    > Robert Baer <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    > > Convert it to raw serial data, without any added control bits =
    > > 800Mbits/sec or almost 1Ghz data rate.
    > > Then add in the control functions, which translates to 1Ghz or more..
    > > And the claim it is faster than parallel IDE????????????????????

    >
    > See, the thing is right now SATA isn't really much faster (if any). The
    > difference is that PATA is at the end of it's road, and has little future.
    > SATA /can/ go faster when needed.


    Indeed...SATA 300 is due mid 2004, and SATA 600 is due sometime 2006.
     
    Richard Dower, Jul 19, 2003
    #9
  10. Newt

    V W Wall Guest

    Robert Baer wrote:
    >
    > DeMoN LaG wrote:
    > >
    > > Robert Baer <> wrote in
    > > news::
    > >
    > > > Convert it to raw serial data, without any added control bits =
    > > > 800Mbits/sec or almost 1Ghz data rate.
    > > > Then add in the control functions, which translates to 1Ghz or more..
    > > > And the claim it is faster than parallel IDE????????????????????

    > >
    > > See, the thing is right now SATA isn't really much faster (if any). The
    > > difference is that PATA is at the end of it's road, and has little future.
    > > SATA /can/ go faster when needed.

    >
    > Only with rise/fall times in the 100 picosecond region on the basis of
    > what i stated.
    > Assuming one used 1Ghz signalling rate with 100 picosecond rise/fall
    > times, it is obvious that a parallel (byte-wide) protocol is *eight
    > times* faster than a serial (bit-wide) protocol.
    > If one used a fast signalling method like that to get greater speed,
    > then it is stupid to slow down the data transfer by a factor of eight
    > (at minimum), thereby wasting that greater speed.
    > If one thinks that 100Mbyte/sec is slow, certainly 1,000Mbytes/sec
    > would be fairly fast.
    > Obviously, the cable as-is cannot easily support such a data ratem so
    > differnt vabling would be in order - perhaps similar to whatever is
    > being contemplated for SATA (have not looked) ?


    Thor explained the problems with increasing the data transfer rate with
    the present parallel ATA standard(s). Also, remember that the ultimate
    origin and destiny of the data is on the surface of a hard disk platter.
    This is, of itself, a "serial" data train.

    There is some work being done on "parallel" data recording. Multi layers
    in optical data media are being investigated, but using magnetic media,
    SATA looks like the best near-term solution.

    Incidently, without some major change in optical recording, the data density
    is limited by the wavelength of the recording "light". Magnetic recording
    has no such theoretical limitation.

    Virg Wall

    --
    Be not the first by whom the new are tried,
    Nor yet the last to lay the old aside.
     
    V W Wall, Jul 20, 2003
    #10
  11. Newt

    AD C Guest

    DeMoN LaG wrote:


    > See, the thing is right now SATA isn't really much faster (if any). The
    > difference is that PATA is at the end of it's road, and has little future.
    > SATA /can/ go faster when needed.


    That is true, but there is one problem with SATA and that is you can
    only put one drive on each port, so to put four drive into a computer,
    you need 4 SATA ports.

    I will not doubt buy a SATA drive when I get a larger hard drive, the
    prices are coming down already and as my board supports them, it leves
    the PATAs free for CDwriter and other slow products.
     
    AD C, Jul 20, 2003
    #11
  12. Newt

    AD C Guest

    GB wrote:


    > Surely, then, the message is to avoid SATA for now. Whatever hardware is
    > bought now will presumably not work with the new faster standard when it
    > comes out?
    >
    > Is this just hype-ware?
    >
    >

    It will be beack ward compatible, just like PATA and usb is now.
     
    AD C, Jul 20, 2003
    #12
  13. Newt

    AD C Guest

    Thor wrote:


    >>How do Sata drives get their power, do they use the normal molex

    >
    > connector?
    >
    > No. They use a new style small connector adjacent to the S-ATA Data
    > connector. However, current S-ATA drives are often coming with the old-style
    > molex for compatibility reasons. There are also adapters available for older
    > power supplies. The new ATX spec coming out will have the new S-ATA power
    > connector, so new power supplies should start showing up with it.
    >


    I see, So when I get a drive, I got to make sure what connector it got.
    Maybe they should have stuck with the old power conectors, they seem to
    work ok.
     
    AD C, Jul 21, 2003
    #13
  14. Newt

    AD C Guest

    Nick wrote:

    >> I see, So when I get a drive, I got to make sure what connector it got.
    >> Maybe they should have stuck with the old power conectors, they seem
    >> to work ok.

    >
    >
    >
    >
    > As I understand it, the SATA drives work at a lower voltage.


    I can not see that, as the motors will still need 12 volts to run.
     
    AD C, Jul 22, 2003
    #14
  15. Newt

    AD C Guest

    Thor wrote:


    >
    > On the data cable, yes. The signalling is 250mv instead of the 5V signalling
    > that P-ATA uses. But, the S-ATA *power* connectors still supply 12V (motors)
    > and 5V (logic) just like the old molex connector, but the S-ATA power supply
    > connectors now also supply a 3.3V source for anticipated future low power
    > mobile devices. In today's desktop machines, the 3.3V is not utilized on the
    > S-ATA drives, so a simple adapter for the standard 12V/5V AT/ATX molex
    > connector is available to fit the drive. Many drives are also still coming
    > with the old-style molex anyway.
    >



    Now we know, thank you, I did not think the motors would have a lower
    voltage.
     
    AD C, Jul 22, 2003
    #15
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