Self-taught MCSD

Discussion in 'MCSD' started by Chris Pettingill, Oct 23, 2003.

  1. I've been a Delphi developer since it came out. I want to move our product
    to the .NET platform, and while I understand many of the basics, I don't
    have much practical experience with Visual Studio, XML etc. I figured
    getting an MCSD would be a decent way to get introduced to this stuff, plus
    get the benefits that an MCSD cert would provide. However, I can't see
    paying a tech college $12000 + to learn this stuff - I don't have the
    greatest opinion of these tech colleges. Has anyone here done the MCSD
    training on their own from the MS books? Are they sufficient? I'm an MSDN
    Universal subscriber so I have all the software I need. I'm generally
    self-taught on most of the stuff I use now though I do have a 4 year honors
    degree in Comp Sci from university. I have a number of years of design,
    analysis, development, implementation and support experience. Is the
    self-taught route a good way for me to go? Or, will I really miss something
    trying to do this only from books and MS newsgroups? Are there better books
    than the MS published ones?

    Thanks,
    Chris
     
    Chris Pettingill, Oct 23, 2003
    #1
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  2. Chris Pettingill

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >I'm an MSDN
    >Universal subscriber so I have all the software I need.


    That's all you need.
     
    Kline Sphere, Oct 23, 2003
    #2
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  3. Chris Pettingill

    Jaime Guest

    yep, as long as you have the software to use you can learn all that you
    need.
    "Kline Sphere" <-> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >I'm an MSDN
    > >Universal subscriber so I have all the software I need.

    >
    > That's all you need.
     
    Jaime, Oct 23, 2003
    #3
  4. I am currently getting my MCSD.NET certification without courses, using
    only books. That's exactly how I got my MCSD certification.

    No, the MSPress books are not enough. They are buggy and leave out
    important information that's on the exam. If you're doing your exams in
    C#, buy the Que books by Amit Kalani for 70-315, 70-316 and 70-320.

    A word of warning: the MSPress book for 70-300 is COMPLETELY USELESS.
    Buy Que's ExamCram2 book instead. It's cheaper to boot.

    Sorry Microsoft, I know it's your newsgroup, but your Training Kits suck.

    Chris Pettingill wrote:
    > I've been a Delphi developer since it came out. I want to move our product
    > to the .NET platform, and while I understand many of the basics, I don't
    > have much practical experience with Visual Studio, XML etc. I figured
    > getting an MCSD would be a decent way to get introduced to this stuff, plus
    > get the benefits that an MCSD cert would provide. However, I can't see
    > paying a tech college $12000 + to learn this stuff - I don't have the
    > greatest opinion of these tech colleges. Has anyone here done the MCSD
    > training on their own from the MS books? Are they sufficient? I'm an MSDN
    > Universal subscriber so I have all the software I need. I'm generally
    > self-taught on most of the stuff I use now though I do have a 4 year honors
    > degree in Comp Sci from university. I have a number of years of design,
    > analysis, development, implementation and support experience. Is the
    > self-taught route a good way for me to go? Or, will I really miss something
    > trying to do this only from books and MS newsgroups? Are there better books
    > than the MS published ones?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Chris
     
    General Protection Fault, Oct 23, 2003
    #4
  5. Chris Pettingill

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >Sorry Microsoft, I know it's your newsgroup, but your Training Kits suck.

    Yet the vast majority of their other books are excellent - seems a bit
    strange to me.
     
    Kline Sphere, Oct 23, 2003
    #5
  6. >>Is the self-taught route a good way for me to go?<<

    Chris,

    I am a self-taught MCSD (for VS6), and I've passed my
    first two exams for the MCSD for .NET. I believe that
    what you want to do can be done, but I'm not going to tell
    you that it will be easy. For what it's worth, here's
    what I've done (and am doing):

    When I decide which exam I'm going to take I'll get a
    short "basics" book for the exam, such as the "exam-cram"
    series from Coriolus or one from MS Press. This is
    usually a good start and a decent overview of the
    technology.

    I will then (this is the most important part) spend some
    time actually working with the technology -- I'll either
    do some volunteer work for a local organization or I will
    set myself a task and a timeline and *do it*.

    Finally, I will get a set of practice tests from one of
    the reputable vendors such as Transcender, and I will take
    all of those repeatedly until I can pass them all. At that
    point, I am usually ready to take the exam and pass it.

    I cannot stress enough that actually working with the
    products is the most important training you're goint to
    get.

    I think you'll find that if you are an experienced Delphi
    developer a lot of your skills should transfer fairly
    easily: designing good apps is hard in any language, and
    the rest is just syntax. }:)

    Joseph H. Ackerman, MCSD
    ACKnowledge Software
     
    Joseph H. Ackerman, Oct 23, 2003
    #6
  7. Thanks for the info. I was just about to ask how long people were finding
    the prep took. It sounds like you're spending a lot more time than the 5 or
    so days that Microsoft and some of the tech colleges talk about for each
    exam.

    I do have a lot of experience with stuff other than straight Delphi (i.e.
    DAO/ADO/ADOX, Office Automation, VBA, Access, SQL Server 7/2000, HTML, ASP,
    Windows Installer etc.) so I'm hoping I can pick up most of the stuff pretty
    quick. My understanding is that one of the big brains behind Delphi was
    also one of the main people behind C# so I'm thinking of taking the C#
    route. I think I've read that C# builds on a lot of Delphi ideas (with a
    lot of C mixed in of course). I've never really liked VB much compared to
    Delphi, and I figure if I can get C# I'll be able to figure out the VB.NET
    later if I need to.


    "Joseph H. Ackerman" <> wrote in message
    news:0ad601c399a3$7f64d760$...
    > >>Is the self-taught route a good way for me to go?<<

    >
    > Chris,
    >
    > I am a self-taught MCSD (for VS6), and I've passed my
    > first two exams for the MCSD for .NET. I believe that
    > what you want to do can be done, but I'm not going to tell
    > you that it will be easy. For what it's worth, here's
    > what I've done (and am doing):
    >
    > When I decide which exam I'm going to take I'll get a
    > short "basics" book for the exam, such as the "exam-cram"
    > series from Coriolus or one from MS Press. This is
    > usually a good start and a decent overview of the
    > technology.
    >
    > I will then (this is the most important part) spend some
    > time actually working with the technology -- I'll either
    > do some volunteer work for a local organization or I will
    > set myself a task and a timeline and *do it*.
    >
    > Finally, I will get a set of practice tests from one of
    > the reputable vendors such as Transcender, and I will take
    > all of those repeatedly until I can pass them all. At that
    > point, I am usually ready to take the exam and pass it.
    >
    > I cannot stress enough that actually working with the
    > products is the most important training you're goint to
    > get.
    >
    > I think you'll find that if you are an experienced Delphi
    > developer a lot of your skills should transfer fairly
    > easily: designing good apps is hard in any language, and
    > the rest is just syntax. }:)
    >
    > Joseph H. Ackerman, MCSD
    > ACKnowledge Software
     
    Chris Pettingill, Oct 23, 2003
    #7
  8. Thanks, I am thinking I'll go C# so I'll definitely check out the Que books.
    How much time have you found you had to devote to preparing for each exam?



    "General Protection Fault" <> wrote
    in message news:%...
    > I am currently getting my MCSD.NET certification without courses, using
    > only books. That's exactly how I got my MCSD certification.
    >
    > No, the MSPress books are not enough. They are buggy and leave out
    > important information that's on the exam. If you're doing your exams in
    > C#, buy the Que books by Amit Kalani for 70-315, 70-316 and 70-320.
    >
    > A word of warning: the MSPress book for 70-300 is COMPLETELY USELESS.
    > Buy Que's ExamCram2 book instead. It's cheaper to boot.
    >
    > Sorry Microsoft, I know it's your newsgroup, but your Training Kits suck.
    >
    > Chris Pettingill wrote:
    > > I've been a Delphi developer since it came out. I want to move our

    product
    > > to the .NET platform, and while I understand many of the basics, I don't
    > > have much practical experience with Visual Studio, XML etc. I figured
    > > getting an MCSD would be a decent way to get introduced to this stuff,

    plus
    > > get the benefits that an MCSD cert would provide. However, I can't see
    > > paying a tech college $12000 + to learn this stuff - I don't have the
    > > greatest opinion of these tech colleges. Has anyone here done the MCSD
    > > training on their own from the MS books? Are they sufficient? I'm an

    MSDN
    > > Universal subscriber so I have all the software I need. I'm generally
    > > self-taught on most of the stuff I use now though I do have a 4 year

    honors
    > > degree in Comp Sci from university. I have a number of years of design,
    > > analysis, development, implementation and support experience. Is the
    > > self-taught route a good way for me to go? Or, will I really miss

    something
    > > trying to do this only from books and MS newsgroups? Are there better

    books
    > > than the MS published ones?
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > > Chris

    >
     
    Chris Pettingill, Oct 23, 2003
    #8
  9. Many people are self taught. Plenty of books that guide you are available.
    The only caveat is that self taught requires the discipline and the time and
    it usually takes much longer if you've got a regular job.

    Wray

    "Chris Pettingill" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I've been a Delphi developer since it came out. I want to move our

    product
    > to the .NET platform, and while I understand many of the basics, I don't
    > have much practical experience with Visual Studio, XML etc. I figured
    > getting an MCSD would be a decent way to get introduced to this stuff,

    plus
    > get the benefits that an MCSD cert would provide. However, I can't see
    > paying a tech college $12000 + to learn this stuff - I don't have the
    > greatest opinion of these tech colleges. Has anyone here done the MCSD
    > training on their own from the MS books? Are they sufficient? I'm an

    MSDN
    > Universal subscriber so I have all the software I need. I'm generally
    > self-taught on most of the stuff I use now though I do have a 4 year

    honors
    > degree in Comp Sci from university. I have a number of years of design,
    > analysis, development, implementation and support experience. Is the
    > self-taught route a good way for me to go? Or, will I really miss

    something
    > trying to do this only from books and MS newsgroups? Are there better

    books
    > than the MS published ones?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Chris
    >
    >
     
    Wray Smallwood, Oct 24, 2003
    #9
  10. It looks like I'll be able to take at least some paid time off to devote to
    this. I'm trying to figure out how much time I'm looking at though. The
    colleges and the MS site seem to talk about 3-5 days to prepare for each
    exam. Is that reasonble for self study if I devote full time days to it?

    I will be using almost everything in the MCSD courses for building the new
    platform for our software product. But, I'd like to finish the course first
    rather than use our new project as on-the-job training for the MCSD. I'm
    thinking taking the MCSD first will help me make good design decisions
    before I spend a lot of time going down the right path. I will be putting
    pretty much everything I learn from the MCSD cert to use right away once
    I've completed it.


    "Wray Smallwood" <0m> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Many people are self taught. Plenty of books that guide you are available.
    > The only caveat is that self taught requires the discipline and the time

    and
    > it usually takes much longer if you've got a regular job.
    >
    > Wray
    >
    > "Chris Pettingill" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > I've been a Delphi developer since it came out. I want to move our

    > product
    > > to the .NET platform, and while I understand many of the basics, I don't
    > > have much practical experience with Visual Studio, XML etc. I figured
    > > getting an MCSD would be a decent way to get introduced to this stuff,

    > plus
    > > get the benefits that an MCSD cert would provide. However, I can't see
    > > paying a tech college $12000 + to learn this stuff - I don't have the
    > > greatest opinion of these tech colleges. Has anyone here done the MCSD
    > > training on their own from the MS books? Are they sufficient? I'm an

    > MSDN
    > > Universal subscriber so I have all the software I need. I'm generally
    > > self-taught on most of the stuff I use now though I do have a 4 year

    > honors
    > > degree in Comp Sci from university. I have a number of years of design,
    > > analysis, development, implementation and support experience. Is the
    > > self-taught route a good way for me to go? Or, will I really miss

    > something
    > > trying to do this only from books and MS newsgroups? Are there better

    > books
    > > than the MS published ones?
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > > Chris
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Chris Pettingill, Oct 24, 2003
    #10
  11. For 70-300 I studied an average of 2.5 hours a day for 4 weeks.
    For 70-320 I studied an average of 2 hours a day for 6 weeks.
    But that's because I was learning a lot of stuff that overlaps with
    70-315 and 70-316, so I anticipate writing both in the same day in about
    3-4 weeks.

    Chris Pettingill wrote:

    > Thanks, I am thinking I'll go C# so I'll definitely check out the Que books.
    > How much time have you found you had to devote to preparing for each exam?
    >
    >
    >
    > "General Protection Fault" <> wrote
    > in message news:%...
    >
    >>I am currently getting my MCSD.NET certification without courses, using
    >>only books. That's exactly how I got my MCSD certification.
    >>
    >>No, the MSPress books are not enough. They are buggy and leave out
    >>important information that's on the exam. If you're doing your exams in
    >>C#, buy the Que books by Amit Kalani for 70-315, 70-316 and 70-320.
    >>
    >>A word of warning: the MSPress book for 70-300 is COMPLETELY USELESS.
    >>Buy Que's ExamCram2 book instead. It's cheaper to boot.
    >>
    >>Sorry Microsoft, I know it's your newsgroup, but your Training Kits suck.
    >>
    >>Chris Pettingill wrote:
    >>
    >>>I've been a Delphi developer since it came out. I want to move our

    >
    > product
    >
    >>>to the .NET platform, and while I understand many of the basics, I don't
    >>>have much practical experience with Visual Studio, XML etc. I figured
    >>>getting an MCSD would be a decent way to get introduced to this stuff,

    >
    > plus
    >
    >>>get the benefits that an MCSD cert would provide. However, I can't see
    >>>paying a tech college $12000 + to learn this stuff - I don't have the
    >>>greatest opinion of these tech colleges. Has anyone here done the MCSD
    >>>training on their own from the MS books? Are they sufficient? I'm an

    >
    > MSDN
    >
    >>>Universal subscriber so I have all the software I need. I'm generally
    >>>self-taught on most of the stuff I use now though I do have a 4 year

    >
    > honors
    >
    >>>degree in Comp Sci from university. I have a number of years of design,
    >>>analysis, development, implementation and support experience. Is the
    >>>self-taught route a good way for me to go? Or, will I really miss

    >
    > something
    >
    >>>trying to do this only from books and MS newsgroups? Are there better

    >
    > books
    >
    >>>than the MS published ones?
    >>>
    >>>Thanks,
    >>>Chris
     
    General Protection Fault, Oct 24, 2003
    #11
  12. Chris Pettingill

    Jaime Guest

    If that isn't the truth, all I do when I get home at night and on weekends
    is study; it's very hard when you work 50 and 60 hour weeks.

    Sleep, what's that again?
    "Wray Smallwood" <0m> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Many people are self taught. Plenty of books that guide you are available.
    > The only caveat is that self taught requires the discipline and the time

    and
    > it usually takes much longer if you've got a regular job.
    >
    > Wray
    >
    > "Chris Pettingill" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > I've been a Delphi developer since it came out. I want to move our

    > product
    > > to the .NET platform, and while I understand many of the basics, I don't
    > > have much practical experience with Visual Studio, XML etc. I figured
    > > getting an MCSD would be a decent way to get introduced to this stuff,

    > plus
    > > get the benefits that an MCSD cert would provide. However, I can't see
    > > paying a tech college $12000 + to learn this stuff - I don't have the
    > > greatest opinion of these tech colleges. Has anyone here done the MCSD
    > > training on their own from the MS books? Are they sufficient? I'm an

    > MSDN
    > > Universal subscriber so I have all the software I need. I'm generally
    > > self-taught on most of the stuff I use now though I do have a 4 year

    > honors
    > > degree in Comp Sci from university. I have a number of years of design,
    > > analysis, development, implementation and support experience. Is the
    > > self-taught route a good way for me to go? Or, will I really miss

    > something
    > > trying to do this only from books and MS newsgroups? Are there better

    > books
    > > than the MS published ones?
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > > Chris
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Jaime, Oct 24, 2003
    #12
  13. Chris Pettingill

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >If that isn't the truth, all I do when I get home at night and on weekends
    >is study; it's very hard when you work 50 and 60 hour weeks.


    Is there any point in living!
     
    Kline Sphere, Oct 24, 2003
    #13
  14. Chris Pettingill

    Jaime Guest

    Doesn't feel that way a lot of the time, lol
    "Kline Sphere" <-> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >If that isn't the truth, all I do when I get home at night and on

    weekends
    > >is study; it's very hard when you work 50 and 60 hour weeks.

    >
    > Is there any point in living!
     
    Jaime, Oct 25, 2003
    #14
  15. Chris Pettingill

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >it usually takes much longer if you've got a regular job.

    I don't think so! If that's the case, those people should not be
    employed. I mean, if you use the tools each day, the exams should be
    easy.
     
    Kline Sphere, Oct 25, 2003
    #15
  16. Chris Pettingill

    Jaime Guest

    Just because you are employed it doesn't mean you are coding in vs.net
    everyday.
    "Kline Sphere" <-> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >it usually takes much longer if you've got a regular job.

    >
    > I don't think so! If that's the case, those people should not be
    > employed. I mean, if you use the tools each day, the exams should be
    > easy.
     
    Jaime, Oct 25, 2003
    #16
  17. Chris Pettingill

    Vijja Guest

    Hi,
    I am a preparing for the exam 70-175, Distributed
    Applications with MS Visual Basic 6.0. I am using the
    MSPress book and some MS Certification CD's for this exam
    I am planning to do some Measureup Exams afterwards.

    Do you think that these have enough material for this
    exam? Do i need to look @ any other bokks etc.

    Self-study is my only option and I would appreciate any
    help from you

    Thanks

    Vijja


    >-----Original Message-----
    >I am currently getting my MCSD.NET certification without

    courses, using
    >only books. That's exactly how I got my MCSD

    certification.
    >
    >No, the MSPress books are not enough. They are buggy and

    leave out
    >important information that's on the exam. If you're

    doing your exams in
    >C#, buy the Que books by Amit Kalani for 70-315, 70-316

    and 70-320.
    >
    >A word of warning: the MSPress book for 70-300 is

    COMPLETELY USELESS.
    >Buy Que's ExamCram2 book instead. It's cheaper to boot.
    >
    >Sorry Microsoft, I know it's your newsgroup, but your

    Training Kits suck.
    >
    >Chris Pettingill wrote:
    >> I've been a Delphi developer since it came out. I want

    to move our product
    >> to the .NET platform, and while I understand many of

    the basics, I don't
    >> have much practical experience with Visual Studio, XML

    etc. I figured
    >> getting an MCSD would be a decent way to get introduced

    to this stuff, plus
    >> get the benefits that an MCSD cert would provide.

    However, I can't see
    >> paying a tech college $12000 + to learn this stuff - I

    don't have the
    >> greatest opinion of these tech colleges. Has anyone

    here done the MCSD
    >> training on their own from the MS books? Are they

    sufficient? I'm an MSDN
    >> Universal subscriber so I have all the software I

    need. I'm generally
    >> self-taught on most of the stuff I use now though I do

    have a 4 year honors
    >> degree in Comp Sci from university. I have a number of

    years of design,
    >> analysis, development, implementation and support

    experience. Is the
    >> self-taught route a good way for me to go? Or, will I

    really miss something
    >> trying to do this only from books and MS newsgroups?

    Are there better books
    >> than the MS published ones?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Chris

    >
    >.
    >
     
    Vijja, Oct 29, 2003
    #17
  18. Chris Pettingill

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >Do you think that these have enough material for this
    >exam?

    No.
     
    Kline Sphere, Oct 29, 2003
    #18
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