Secure Banking

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by RecyclerMan, Jan 31, 2004.

  1. RecyclerMan

    RecyclerMan Guest

    I have had a problem pop up at the begning of the year. When I or my
    wife try to do internet banking using WINXP it stalls and does nothing
    much up to 1/2 to an houre to do a page now the strang thing is use
    another computer on my network and no problem use Win2K on the same box
    no probs use RH9 no probs so I know the problem is in WINXP it does not
    matter witch browser I use It's just don't work I have Vrrused checked
    the system Norton Still wating for the AVG Key in e-mail spyware removed
    using spybot and addaware only had cokkie type's so far as I know my
    machine is cleen I do updates every so often havent done service pack 1
    yet, any comments I might not fix this problem as trying to move the
    wife and kids over to linux:)
    --
    / __/ / / / / /__ / / ___/ / __/ / / / |/ / /__ /
    / / / /_/ / / /_/ / _-' / __/ / / / /_/ / / /| / _-'
    ___\ ____/ ____/ /___/ /____/ /_/ ___\ ____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /___/
     
    RecyclerMan, Jan 31, 2004
    #1
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  2. RecyclerMan

    John Guest

    On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 08:41:05 +1300, RecyclerMan
    <> wrote:

    Is it some routing / dns issue?


    >I have had a problem pop up at the begning of the year. When I or my
    >wife try to do internet banking using WINXP it stalls and does nothing
    >much up to 1/2 to an houre to do a page now the strang thing is use
    >another computer on my network and no problem use Win2K on the same box
    >no probs use RH9 no probs so I know the problem is in WINXP it does not
    >matter witch browser I use It's just don't work I have Vrrused checked
    >the system Norton Still wating for the AVG Key in e-mail spyware removed
    >using spybot and addaware only had cokkie type's so far as I know my
    >machine is cleen I do updates every so often havent done service pack 1
    >yet, any comments I might not fix this problem as trying to move the
    >wife and kids over to linux:)
     
    John, Jan 31, 2004
    #2
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  3. RecyclerMan

    Bok Guest

    RecyclerMan wrote:
    > I have had a problem pop up at the begning of the year. When I or my
    > wife try to do internet banking using WINXP it stalls and does nothing
    > much up to 1/2 to an houre to do a page now the strang thing is use
    > another computer on my network and no problem use Win2K on the same box
    > no probs use RH9 no probs so I know the problem is in WINXP it does not
    > matter witch browser I use It's just don't work I have Vrrused checked
    > the system Norton Still wating for the AVG Key in e-mail spyware removed
    > using spybot and addaware only had cokkie type's so far as I know my
    > machine is cleen I do updates every so often havent done service pack 1
    > yet, any comments I might not fix this problem as trying to move the
    > wife and kids over to linux:)


    It is possible you are encountering something similar to the infamous
    'black hole' router issues described in M$ KB article 314825, for example:

    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;314825

    Try the ping tests described in this article and the suggested
    workaround if it is relevant.

    A number of NZ banks had misconfigured firewalls that were dropping
    essential ICMP packets causing problems as described in this article for
    some users.
     
    Bok, Jan 31, 2004
    #3
  4. In article <bvh0cq$ro1t6$-berlin.de>,
    RecyclerMan <> wrote:

    >I have had a problem pop up at the begning of the year. When I or my
    >wife try to do internet banking using WINXP it stalls and does nothing
    >much up to 1/2 to an houre to do a page now the strang thing is use
    >another computer on my network and no problem use Win2K on the same box
    >no probs use RH9 no probs so I know the problem is in WINXP it does not
    >matter witch browser I use It's just don't work I have Vrrused checked
    >the system Norton Still wating for the AVG Key in e-mail spyware removed
    >using spybot and addaware only had cokkie type's so far as I know my
    >machine is cleen I do updates every so often havent done service pack 1
    >yet, any comments I might not fix this problem as trying to move the
    >wife and kids over to linux:)


    I think the problem is your machine is infected with the Punctuation
    Eater virus The symptom of this is that all punctuation marks disappear
    in outgoing messages from your machine Plus of course you find you can't
    do Internet banking (which relies heavily on punctuation marks) This is
    a serious problem but you can work around it if you hit the punctuation
    keys five or six times they do eventually register and if you keep this
    up you can eventually drive the virus away Hope this helps
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Feb 1, 2004
    #4
  5. RecyclerMan

    Gordon Guest

    On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 14:33:11 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > I think the problem is your machine is infected with the Punctuation
    > Eater virus The symptom of this is that all punctuation marks disappear
    > in outgoing messages from your machine Plus of course you find you can't
    > do Internet banking (which relies heavily on punctuation marks) This is
    > a serious problem but you can work around it if you hit the punctuation
    > keys five or six times they do eventually register and if you keep this
    > up you can eventually drive the virus away Hope this helps


    Yes, indeed. This virus is spreading out in the wild and has been out of
    control for many months now. It has mutated into the Lack of capitals
    virus, which maybe also seen in the wild and elsewhere.

    The typo virus also seems to be getting more powerful, as it is effecting
    more postings. Already there is clear evidence that their has sucumbed to
    it leaving the replacement of there in its place.

    Banking? ;-)

    --
    Fairy stories exist so children get used to real life
     
    Gordon, Feb 1, 2004
    #5
  6. On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:16:34 +1300, Gordon wrote:

    > The typo virus also seems to be getting more powerful, as it is effecting
    > more postings. Already there is clear evidence that their has sucumbed to
    > it leaving the replacement of there in its place.


    Already there is clear evidence that affecting has sucumbed to it
    leaving the replacement of effecting in its place.
     
    Humphrey H. Hollingsmead, Feb 1, 2004
    #6
  7. RecyclerMan

    Gurble Guest

    On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 19:09:43 +1300, Humphrey H. Hollingsmead
    <^h@^h.^h> had this to say:

    >On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:16:34 +1300, Gordon wrote:
    >
    >> The typo virus also seems to be getting more powerful, as it is effecting
    >> more postings. Already there is clear evidence that their has sucumbed to
    >> it leaving the replacement of there in its place.

    >
    >Already there is clear evidence that affecting has sucumbed to it
    >leaving the replacement of effecting in its place.


    Yes, it is quite a nasty one.

    According to the latest writeup by Symantec, early symptoms include
    the second 'c' in 'succumbed' mysteriously disappearing in posts made
    by pots calling kettles black....
     
    Gurble, Feb 1, 2004
    #7
  8. RecyclerMan

    RecyclerMan Guest

    John wrote:
    > On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 08:41:05 +1300, RecyclerMan
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > Is it some routing / dns issue?
    >
    >


    No see calrafication.

    >
    >>I have had a problem pop up at the begning of the year. When I or my
    >>wife try to do internet banking using WINXP it stalls and does nothing
    >>much up to 1/2 to an houre to do a page now the strang thing is use
    >>another computer on my network and no problem use Win2K on the same box
    >>no probs use RH9 no probs so I know the problem is in WINXP it does not
    >>matter witch browser I use It's just don't work I have Vrrused checked
    >>the system Norton Still wating for the AVG Key in e-mail spyware removed
    >>using spybot and addaware only had cokkie type's so far as I know my
    >>machine is cleen I do updates every so often havent done service pack 1
    >>yet, any comments I might not fix this problem as trying to move the
    >>wife and kids over to linux:)

    >
    >

    The Server does nat and handles most things.

    The cruddy machines arround the house rely on dhcp for all of there set
    up and they work GOOD.

    The Three OS's set up on the main machine have been set up manualy 2 out
    of three work ok. as A test I will set up a modem on XP to see if it works.

    --
    / __/ / / / / /__ / / ___/ / __/ / / / |/ / /__ /
    / / / /_/ / / /_/ / _-' / __/ / / / /_/ / / /| / _-'
    ___\ ____/ ____/ /___/ /____/ /_/ ___\ ____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /___/
     
    RecyclerMan, Feb 1, 2004
    #8
  9. RecyclerMan

    RecyclerMan Guest

    Bok wrote:
    > RecyclerMan wrote:
    >
    >> I have had a problem pop up at the begning of the year. When I or my
    >> wife try to do internet banking using WINXP it stalls and does nothing
    >> much up to 1/2 to an houre to do a page now the strang thing is use
    >> another computer on my network and no problem use Win2K on the same
    >> box no probs use RH9 no probs so I know the problem is in WINXP it
    >> does not matter witch browser I use It's just don't work I have
    >> Vrrused checked the system Norton Still wating for the AVG Key in
    >> e-mail spyware removed using spybot and addaware only had cokkie
    >> type's so far as I know my machine is cleen I do updates every so
    >> often havent done service pack 1 yet, any comments I might not fix
    >> this problem as trying to move the wife and kids over to linux:)

    >
    >
    > It is possible you are encountering something similar to the infamous
    > 'black hole' router issues described in M$ KB article 314825, for example:
    >
    > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;314825
    >
    > Try the ping tests described in this article and the suggested
    > workaround if it is relevant.
    >
    > A number of NZ banks had misconfigured firewalls that were dropping
    > essential ICMP packets causing problems as described in this article for
    > some users.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >

    That is gonna be hard to provee from XP as my server blocks pings out
    going and incoming. I can ping from the server it's self though. But I
    now have enough idears to try.

    --
    / __/ / / / / /__ / / ___/ / __/ / / / |/ / /__ /
    / / / /_/ / / /_/ / _-' / __/ / / / /_/ / / /| / _-'
    ___\ ____/ ____/ /___/ /____/ /_/ ___\ ____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /___/
     
    RecyclerMan, Feb 1, 2004
    #9
  10. RecyclerMan

    Gavin Tunney Guest

    On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 08:41:05 +1300, RecyclerMan
    <> wrote:

    >I have had a problem pop up at the begning of the year. When I or my
    >wife try to do internet banking using WINXP it stalls and does nothing
    >much up to 1/2 to an houre to do a page now the strang thing is use
    >another computer on my network and no problem use Win2K on the same box
    >no probs use RH9 no probs so I know the problem is in WINXP it does not
    >matter witch browser I use It's just don't work I have Vrrused checked
    >the system Norton Still wating for the AVG Key in e-mail spyware removed
    >using spybot and addaware only had cokkie type's so far as I know my
    >machine is cleen I do updates every so often havent done service pack 1
    >yet, any comments I might not fix this problem as trying to move the
    >wife and kids over to linux:)


    If it's just the banking site you're having trouble with then it
    suggests something to do with that site only. It could be a corrupted
    cookie, usually that crashes IE with an illegal operation but XP may
    treat it differently. Try deleting the cookie for the site.

    It could also be a java or ActiveX problem. Try putting the banking
    site in the restricted sites zone, with scripting etc disabled, and
    see if it still hangs on you. If it doesn't hang then try setting
    scripts, java etc to 'prompt' and step thru them until you get the
    problem happening. Could also look at the source & see what kind of
    script it's trying to run. Most activex controls & java applets get
    downloaded to your PC so they run from the hdd on next visiting the
    site. One of them might be corrupted, can usually delete/move the
    downloaded apps & the browser will just download them again.

    Cheers

    Gavin
     
    Gavin Tunney, Feb 1, 2004
    #10
  11. RecyclerMan

    Gavin Tunney Guest

    On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 14:33:11 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    <_zealand> wrote:

    <snip>
    >I think the problem is your machine is infected with the Punctuation
    >Eater virus The symptom of this is that all punctuation marks disappear
    >in outgoing messages from your machine Plus of course you find you can't
    >do Internet banking (which relies heavily on punctuation marks) This is
    >a serious problem but you can work around it if you hit the punctuation
    >keys five or six times they do eventually register and if you keep this
    >up you can eventually drive the virus away Hope this helps


    What the hell is wrong with some of you people? Are newsgroups where
    all the kids who pulled wings off flies end up?

    Gavin
     
    Gavin Tunney, Feb 1, 2004
    #11
  12. RecyclerMan

    Gordon Smith Guest

    "RecyclerMan" <> wrote in message
    news:bvjegd$s44nk$-berlin.de...
    > >
    > > A number of NZ banks had misconfigured firewalls that were dropping
    > > essential ICMP packets causing problems as described in this article for
    > > some users.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >

    > That is gonna be hard to provee from XP as my server blocks pings out
    > going and incoming. I can ping from the server it's self though. But I
    > now have enough idears to try.
    >


    Blocking ICMP?
    Then how is path MTU discovery ever going to work? Don't block all ICMP -
    you need to allow type 3 code 4 ICMP traffic.

    You can always rate limit echo, echo-reply, etc. and block icmp redirects
     
    Gordon Smith, Feb 2, 2004
    #12
  13. On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:55:27 +1300, Gordon Smith wrote:

    >> > A number of NZ banks had misconfigured firewalls that were dropping
    >> > essential ICMP packets causing problems as described in this article for
    >> > some users.


    > Blocking ICMP?


    Yup, and then blaming "rocket scientist users" for fudging their settings.

    The problem was that the sub 1500 packet size was an artifact of Jetstart
    shaping.

    > Then how is path MTU discovery ever going to work?


    It didn't, that was the problem.

    > Don't block all ICMP
    > - you need to allow type 3 code 4 ICMP traffic.
    >
    > You can always rate limit echo, echo-reply, etc. and block icmp
    > redirects


    The rocket scientists were working for the banks. The banks in question
    decided their rocjet scientists were infallible experts (who also just
    happened to be Australian as that's where the sites really were) and it
    was all the end user's fault.

    Pissing off customers is generally regarded as a bad idea.
     
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Feb 2, 2004
    #13
  14. Gavin Tunney wrote:
    > What the hell is wrong with some of you people? Are newsgroups where
    > all the kids who pulled wings off flies end up?


    ummm yep.

    --
    Dave Hall
    http://Dave.net.nz
    We have Hangman, Pacman, and Space Invaders
     
    T.N.O. - Dave.net.nz, Feb 2, 2004
    #14
  15. RecyclerMan

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:00:07 GMT, (Gavin Tunney)
    wrote:

    >On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 14:33:11 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    ><_zealand> wrote:
    >
    ><snip>
    >>I think the problem is your machine is infected with the Punctuation
    >>Eater virus The symptom of this is that all punctuation marks disappear
    >>in outgoing messages from your machine Plus of course you find you can't
    >>do Internet banking (which relies heavily on punctuation marks) This is
    >>a serious problem but you can work around it if you hit the punctuation
    >>keys five or six times they do eventually register and if you keep this
    >>up you can eventually drive the virus away Hope this helps

    >
    >What the hell is wrong with some of you people? Are newsgroups where
    >all the kids who pulled wings off flies end up?
    >

    I don't usually mind, but that chunk of brain-dump was almost
    unreadable.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    I think that Don Brash is a Labour mole.
    That would explain everything.
     
    Enkidu, Feb 2, 2004
    #15
  16. RecyclerMan

    RecyclerMan Guest

    Uncle StoatWarbler wrote:
    > On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:55:27 +1300, Gordon Smith wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>>A number of NZ banks had misconfigured firewalls that were dropping
    >>>>essential ICMP packets causing problems as described in this article for
    >>>>some users.

    >
    >
    >>Blocking ICMP?

    >
    >
    > Yup, and then blaming "rocket scientist users" for fudging their settings.
    >
    > The problem was that the sub 1500 packet size was an artifact of Jetstart
    > shaping.
    >
    >
    >>Then how is path MTU discovery ever going to work?

    >
    >
    > It didn't, that was the problem.
    >
    >
    >>Don't block all ICMP
    >>- you need to allow type 3 code 4 ICMP traffic.
    >>
    >>You can always rate limit echo, echo-reply, etc. and block icmp
    >>redirects

    >
    >
    > The rocket scientists were working for the banks. The banks in question
    > decided their rocjet scientists were infallible experts (who also just
    > happened to be Australian as that's where the sites really were) and it
    > was all the end user's fault.
    >
    > Pissing off customers is generally regarded as a bad idea.
    >
    >

    Just a point. I am on dial up with orcon. You have said problem was that
    the sub 1500 packet size was an artifact of Jetstart shaping I am going
    to log the tcpdump eth0 on my server and wach what happens for each OS I
    am going to watch the boot and log on to the internet and then banking
    to see what if any difference there is. then read the stuff on tcpip and
    see where that takes me.

    --
    / __/ / / / / /__ / / ___/ / __/ / / / |/ / /__ /
    / / / /_/ / / /_/ / _-' / __/ / / / /_/ / / /| / _-'
    ___\ ____/ ____/ /___/ /____/ /_/ ___\ ____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /___/
     
    RecyclerMan, Feb 2, 2004
    #16
  17. RecyclerMan

    RecyclerMan Guest

    Gavin Tunney wrote:
    > On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 08:41:05 +1300, RecyclerMan
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I have had a problem pop up at the begning of the year. When I or my
    >>wife try to do internet banking using WINXP it stalls and does nothing
    >>much up to 1/2 to an houre to do a page now the strang thing is use
    >>another computer on my network and no problem use Win2K on the same box
    >>no probs use RH9 no probs so I know the problem is in WINXP it does not
    >>matter witch browser I use It's just don't work I have Vrrused checked
    >>the system Norton Still wating for the AVG Key in e-mail spyware removed
    >>using spybot and addaware only had cokkie type's so far as I know my
    >>machine is cleen I do updates every so often havent done service pack 1
    >>yet, any comments I might not fix this problem as trying to move the
    >>wife and kids over to linux:)

    >
    >
    > If it's just the banking site you're having trouble with then it
    > suggests something to do with that site only. It could be a corrupted
    > cookie, usually that crashes IE with an illegal operation but XP may
    > treat it differently. Try deleting the cookie for the site.
    >
    > It could also be a java or ActiveX problem. Try putting the banking
    > site in the restricted sites zone, with scripting etc disabled, and
    > see if it still hangs on you. If it doesn't hang then try setting
    > scripts, java etc to 'prompt' and step thru them until you get the
    > problem happening. Could also look at the source & see what kind of
    > script it's trying to run. Most activex controls & java applets get
    > downloaded to your PC so they run from the hdd on next visiting the
    > site. One of them might be corrupted, can usually delete/move the
    > downloaded apps & the browser will just download them again.
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > Gavin

    I would like to hope it is just that simple how does xp handle cookies
    in mozilla? would never use IE for banking. The only time IE gets used
    here is for the sister in law so she can do her Avon a site that chokes
    on mozilla oh yes and when I do the updates for XP:) there was a MSN
    gaming site that the wife used to use but she has not useded it on this
    install. I think I will investigate a more through cleen of the system.

    Robert.

    --
    / __/ / / / / /__ / / ___/ / __/ / / / |/ / /__ /
    / / / /_/ / / /_/ / _-' / __/ / / / /_/ / / /| / _-'
    ___\ ____/ ____/ /___/ /____/ /_/ ___\ ____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /___/
     
    RecyclerMan, Feb 2, 2004
    #17
  18. RecyclerMan

    RecyclerMan Guest

    Gavin Tunney wrote:
    > On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 08:41:05 +1300, RecyclerMan
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I have had a problem pop up at the begning of the year. When I or my
    >>wife try to do internet banking using WINXP it stalls and does nothing
    >>much up to 1/2 to an houre to do a page now the strang thing is use
    >>another computer on my network and no problem use Win2K on the same box
    >>no probs use RH9 no probs so I know the problem is in WINXP it does not
    >>matter witch browser I use It's just don't work I have Vrrused checked
    >>the system Norton Still wating for the AVG Key in e-mail spyware removed
    >>using spybot and addaware only had cokkie type's so far as I know my
    >>machine is cleen I do updates every so often havent done service pack 1
    >>yet, any comments I might not fix this problem as trying to move the
    >>wife and kids over to linux:)

    >
    >
    > If it's just the banking site you're having trouble with then it
    > suggests something to do with that site only. It could be a corrupted
    > cookie, usually that crashes IE with an illegal operation but XP may
    > treat it differently. Try deleting the cookie for the site.
    >
    > It could also be a java or ActiveX problem. Try putting the banking
    > site in the restricted sites zone, with scripting etc disabled, and
    > see if it still hangs on you. If it doesn't hang then try setting
    > scripts, java etc to 'prompt' and step thru them until you get the
    > problem happening. Could also look at the source & see what kind of
    > script it's trying to run. Most activex controls & java applets get
    > downloaded to your PC so they run from the hdd on next visiting the
    > site. One of them might be corrupted, can usually delete/move the
    > downloaded apps & the browser will just download them again.
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > Gavin

    Seems to be Secure Banking sites only have had no problem with the
    singal secure site page only extended pages like banks.

    --
    / __/ / / / / /__ / / ___/ / __/ / / / |/ / /__ /
    / / / /_/ / / /_/ / _-' / __/ / / / /_/ / / /| / _-'
    ___\ ____/ ____/ /___/ /____/ /_/ ___\ ____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /___/
     
    RecyclerMan, Feb 2, 2004
    #18
  19. RecyclerMan

    sharyn Guest

    "Uncle StoatWarbler" <> wrote in
    message news:p...
    >
    >
    > > Blocking ICMP?

    >
    > Yup, and then blaming "rocket scientist users" for fudging their settings.
    >
    > The problem was that the sub 1500 packet size was an artifact of Jetstart
    > shaping.
    >
    > > Then how is path MTU discovery ever going to work?

    >
    > It didn't, that was the problem.
    >
    > > Don't block all ICMP
    > > - you need to allow type 3 code 4 ICMP traffic.
    > >
    > > You can always rate limit echo, echo-reply, etc. and block icmp
    > > redirects

    >
    > The rocket scientists were working for the banks. The banks in question
    > decided their rocjet scientists were infallible experts (who also just
    > happened to be Australian as that's where the sites really were) and it
    > was all the end user's fault.
    >
    > Pissing off customers is generally regarded as a bad idea.
    >
    >


    Yep, I've had this argument with more than a few so-called professionals
    that
    run banking websites. One told me that they blocked all icmp because
    someone might find a way to hack them using icmp..... I offered to buy him a
    copy of "Networking for Dummies" :)
    The conversation went downhill after that.

    The pMTU problem can also be seen on dialups that are tunneled when the link
    doesn't support frames greater that 1500 bytes i.e. jumbo frames.
    Came across this when we trialed the Telstra dial offload when it was first
    launched.
    That uses vpdn tunnels to the provider's edge routers. An interim fix was to
    apply
    a route-map that intercepted user traffic anf cleared the df bit in the
    packet header.
    Of course, the down side of doing that is it breaks vpn's, since packet
    checksums
    will no longer match....

    nothing is easy.... :)
     
    sharyn, Feb 3, 2004
    #19
  20. RecyclerMan

    Gordon Smith Guest

    Oops... guess I should check the settings on my wife's pc before using to
    reply to usenet posts :)
     
    Gordon Smith, Feb 3, 2004
    #20
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