Section 92a: The Pirates Will Always Win

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by victor, Jun 7, 2009.

  1. victor

    victor Guest

    "The head of UK ISP TalkTalk, Charles Dunstone, has made the comment
    ahead of the communications minister's Digital Britain report that
    illegal downloading cannot be stopped. He said 'If you try speed humps
    or disconnections for peer-to-peer, people will simply either disguise
    their traffic or share the content another way. It is a game of Tom and
    Jerry and you will never catch the mouse. The mouse always wins in this
    battle and we need to be careful that politicians do not get talked into
    putting legislation in place that, in the end, ends up looking stupid.'
    Instead he advocates allowing users 'to get content easily and cheaply.'"

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jun/05/dunstone-carphone-warehouse-results-pirates
    victor, Jun 7, 2009
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. victor

    Peter Guest

    victor wrote:
    > "Instead he advocates allowing users 'to get content easily and cheaply.'"
    > http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jun/05/dunstone-carphone-

    warehouse-results-pirates

    Quite right, the media corporates made a strategic mistake by trying to deny
    users wanting to access music and video over the internet. If they had
    worked with the new technology, instead of taking a Canute like stance
    against the tide, our world could be a different place today.

    Unfortunately, they are still trying to deny users ...
    http://news.cnet.com/newsblog/?keyword=Stephanie Lenz
    http://www.aardvark.co.nz/daily/2009/0123.shtml
    Peter, Jun 7, 2009
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. victor

    victor Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Mutley <> wrote:
    >
    >> whoisthis <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article <h0fb2l$r0u$>, victor <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "The head of UK ISP TalkTalk, Charles Dunstone, has made the comment
    >>>> ahead of the communications minister's Digital Britain report that
    >>>> illegal downloading cannot be stopped. He said 'If you try speed humps
    >>>> or disconnections for peer-to-peer, people will simply either disguise
    >>>> their traffic or share the content another way. It is a game of Tom and
    >>>> Jerry and you will never catch the mouse. The mouse always wins in this
    >>>> battle and we need to be careful that politicians do not get talked into
    >>>> putting legislation in place that, in the end, ends up looking stupid.'
    >>>> Instead he advocates allowing users 'to get content easily and cheaply.'"
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jun/05/dunstone-carphone-warehouse-
    >>>> res
    >>>> ults-pirates
    >>> iTunes, easily and cheaply, thus there is no excuse..... oh wait unless
    >>> what they mean by cheaply is not to pay anything...

    >> Tried finding a legit source for TV programs recently and I don't mean
    >> the likes of TVNZ and MW online replays.

    >
    > What, like the House 1,2,3,4 I have, or the Boston Legal series, perhaps
    > Outrageous fortune, Greys anatomy, Serenity, Dr Who, Buffy, Angel,
    > Desperate Housewives, Top-Gear.....
    > Now I am interested in getting an old series "Connections by James
    > Burke" but I am not willing to pay the US$ price for it, so guess what,
    > I don't have it nor do I believe I have the right to get a pirated copy.


    Why should anyone care ?
    TV programmes are paid for by advertising rates which are set by Neilson
    ratings which are not affected by downloads.
    victor, Jun 7, 2009
    #3
  4. victor

    Peter Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <4a2b511e$>,
    > Peter <> wrote:
    >> victor wrote:
    >> > "Instead he advocates allowing users 'to get content easily and
    >> > cheaply.'"
    >> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jun/05/dunstone-carphone-

    >> warehouse-results-pirates
    >>
    >> Quite right, the media corporates made a strategic mistake by trying to
    >> deny users wanting to access music and video over the internet. If
    >> they had worked with the new technology, instead of taking a Canute
    >> like stance against the tide, our world could be a different place today.
    >>
    >> Unfortunately, they are still trying to deny users ...
    >> http://news.cnet.com/newsblog/?keyword=Stephanie Lenz
    >> http://www.aardvark.co.nz/daily/2009/0123.shtml

    >
    > ITUNES and other online music stores, excuses gone for the last couple
    > of years.


    As you say, only for the last couple of years.

    For a decade or so, there was no lawful means for NZers to get music on-
    line. For years, you could buy a mp3 player in NZ, but there was no lawful
    way of loading music onto it. (Format shifting of audio was unlawful until
    the law change last year.) This established the situation where most people
    think it is normal to download music from the internet.

    This ridiculous situation still applies to video material (format shifting
    not lawful) and to purchasing backing music for videos users may wish to
    make. (See the links above)
    Peter, Jun 7, 2009
    #4
  5. victor

    AD. Guest

    On Jun 7, 4:42 pm, whoisthis <> wrote:
    > Now I am interested in getting an old series "Connections by James
    > Burke" but I am not willing to pay the US$ price for it, so guess what,
    > I don't have it nor do I believe I have the right to get a pirated copy.


    I was only a kid at the time when I watched it, but that was a great
    series.

    I'd love to watch it again, but no way I'm going to pay US$150 to do
    so. And it sounds like I'm not alone. I often wonder how rights
    holders come up with prices like that.

    It's like they are only going to make a limited number of copies, and
    price it at the max price that only just allows them to sell every
    copy in a set period of time. It's all about controlling the supply
    side of the equation.

    Duplication and distribution doesn't have to be expensive these days -
    why can't they be a bit more innovative and have a go at growing the
    demand side instead?

    --
    Cheers
    Anton
    AD., Jun 8, 2009
    #5
  6. victor

    victor Guest

    AD. wrote:
    > On Jun 7, 4:42 pm, whoisthis <> wrote:
    >> Now I am interested in getting an old series "Connections by James
    >> Burke" but I am not willing to pay the US$ price for it, so guess what,
    >> I don't have it nor do I believe I have the right to get a pirated copy.

    >
    > I was only a kid at the time when I watched it, but that was a great
    > series.
    >
    > I'd love to watch it again, but no way I'm going to pay US$150 to do
    > so. And it sounds like I'm not alone. I often wonder how rights
    > holders come up with prices like that.
    >
    > It's like they are only going to make a limited number of copies, and
    > price it at the max price that only just allows them to sell every
    > copy in a set period of time. It's all about controlling the supply
    > side of the equation.
    >
    > Duplication and distribution doesn't have to be expensive these days -
    > why can't they be a bit more innovative and have a go at growing the
    > demand side instead?
    >
    > --
    > Cheers
    > Anton


    Watch it on Youtube
    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=james burke connections&aq=0&oq=james burke
    victor, Jun 8, 2009
    #6
  7. victor

    Mutlley Guest

    whoisthis <> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > Mutley <> wrote:
    >
    >> whoisthis <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> Tried finding a legit source for TV programs recently and I don't mean
    >> >> >> the likes of TVNZ and MW online replays.
    >> >> >
    >> >> >What, like the House 1,2,3,4 I have, or the Boston Legal series, perhaps
    >> >> >Outrageous fortune, Greys anatomy, Serenity, Dr Who, Buffy, Angel,
    >> >> >Desperate Housewives, Top-Gear.....
    >> >> >Now I am interested in getting an old series "Connections by James
    >> >> >Burke" but I am not willing to pay the US$ price for it, so guess what,
    >> >> >I don't have it nor do I believe I have the right to get a pirated copy.
    >> >>
    >> >> I'm not talking DVDs
    >> >
    >> >Please tell me what you can not get....

    >>
    >> The current US TV programs that are available on iTunes, Hulu and
    >> other online or download and play services. Here in NZ you may have
    >> to wait months , years before these programs get played if at all..
    >>
    >> I gave up years ago waiting for NZ TV networks to play lots of these
    >> programs.

    >
    >And you can not buy the DVDs from overseas ??
    >Or are you one of these people who believes they are entitled to have
    >what ever they want when they want it.


    You know your starting to sound like an apologist for the
    entertainment industry. Hollier than thou
    Mutlley, Jun 8, 2009
    #7
  8. victor

    Lodi Guest

    > Mutlley wrote:

    >> whoisthis <> wrote:

    >


    >> And you can not buy the DVDs from overseas ??
    >> Or are you one of these people who believes they are entitled to have
    >> what ever they want when they want it.

    >
    > You know your starting to sound like an apologist for the
    > entertainment industry. Hollier than thou


    Totally agree.

    Was curious to see what the fuss was about so I grabbed the first two
    episodes off isohunt. Not bad, but of it's time. Reminded me a bit of
    Richard Hammond's Engineering Connections (or vice versa).

    Might grab a few other episodes. Might not. Certainly not worth US$150

    Holy ones feel free to condemn

    Regards
    Lodi
    Lodi, Jun 8, 2009
    #8
  9. victor

    SlowLearner Guest

    On Jun 8, 7:38 pm, whoisthis <> wrote:
    > In article <>,
    >
    >
    >
    >  Mutley <> wrote:
    > > whoisthis <> wrote:

    >
    > > >> >> Tried finding a legit source for TV programs recently and I don't mean
    > > >> >> the likes  of TVNZ and MW online replays.

    >
    > > >> >What, like the House 1,2,3,4 I have, or the Boston Legal series, perhaps
    > > >> >Outrageous fortune, Greys anatomy, Serenity, Dr Who, Buffy, Angel,
    > > >> >Desperate Housewives, Top-Gear.....
    > > >> >Now I am interested in getting an old series "Connections by James
    > > >> >Burke" but I am not willing to pay the US$ price for it, so guess what,
    > > >> >I don't have it nor do I believe I have the right to get a pirated copy.

    >
    > > >> I'm not talking DVDs

    >
    > > >Please tell me what you can not get....

    >
    > > The current  US TV programs that are available on iTunes, Hulu and
    > > other online  or download and play services.  Here in NZ you may have
    > > to wait months , years before these  programs get played if at all..

    >
    > > I gave up years ago waiting for NZ TV networks to play lots of these
    > > programs.  

    >
    > And you can not buy the DVDs from overseas ??
    > Or are you one of these people who believes they are entitled to have
    > what ever they want when they want it.


    And play it on what? We used to have a DVD player that did multizone.
    Sadly it died and I have not since found a cheapie to replace it with
    yet.

    I have a PS3, it plays DVDs ... oh yeah, zone locked to zone 4 (but I
    am willing to know if it is able to be made multizone) SONY hates it
    when you put money in the pocket of SONY US rather than SONY NZ. So it
    won't play any of my Zone 1 DVDs.

    I have a DVD player in my laptop that will play Zone 1 ... now ...
    after a huge argument with the store becasue the DVD consortium has
    decreed that all DVD drives for PCs are to be RPC-2 zone locked which
    will stop all software zone unlocking unless the firmware was sloppily
    done (ie: not encrypted) so you can get a hacked firmware for it.
    Which you can only assess on a drive by drive basis and lose warranty
    over.

    Yup, after spending thousands on DVDs and CDs I am really feeling like
    my custom is appreciated.

    Ahh, I hadn't mentioned my CDs yet. I have a couple that flat out will
    not rip to my harddrive for transfer to my mp3 player. Well copy
    protected it turns out. I downloaded them.

    As far as I am concerned the 'pirates' and the people that write the
    software that cirumvents copy protection are providing a service for
    people like me who otherwise would struggle to use legally purchased
    media in a legal manner.

    As has been pointed out, if the industries had worked on taking
    advantage of technology from the word go rather than just seeing it as
    an evil, things might be different but by treating honest customers as
    criminals all they did was make the situation worse. As far as I am
    concerned it is hard to decide to spend money on something that in a
    couple of years time I might not be able to watch or listen to.

    The music and movie industries have decided on the business strategy
    of selling a lower quality product for a higher price, I don't know
    how much their executives are paid but it's obviously too much.
    SlowLearner, Jun 9, 2009
    #9
  10. victor

    SlowLearner Guest

    On Jun 9, 9:46 pm, whoisthis <> wrote:
    > In article
    > <>,
    >


    > Dick Smith and a lot of other stores sell them. Region free DVD players
    > in NZ are common and cheap. I have refused to buy zoned DVD players.


    I am aware of this but last time went to have a look (hoping to find a
    sale item over Queens Birthday weekend) the cheapest I could find was
    a $100 DVD player with HDMI out. I know they come down to $50-60 for a
    basic no frills so I am waiting until then.


    > Guess what, thats true of the games too for the PS3 and they are even
    > more copy protected, your vote with your wallet says much, and hell even
    > some printers zone the cartridges, guess what I did NOT buy their
    > products, that is the ONLY right you have. If no one buys then, they
    > change the rules, but no, everyone votes with their wallet and continues
    > to buy.


    Guess what, I know that as well, I was just pointing out that it is
    not all cut and dried on the "just pay for overseas DVDs" front. From
    my understanding one time in the distant past out commerce commision
    actually had balls. They stipulated that DVD players in NZ were
    supposed to be multizone. Now they don't care.

    > > I have a DVD player in my laptop that will play Zone 1 ... now ...
    > > after a huge argument with the store becasue the DVD consortium has
    > > decreed that all DVD drives for PCs are to be RPC-2 zone locked which
    > > will stop all software zone unlocking unless the firmware was sloppily
    > > done (ie: not encrypted) so you can get a hacked firmware for it.
    > > Which you can only assess on a drive by drive basis and lose warranty
    > > over.

    >
    > VLC Player as well as others.


    No it won't. RPC-2 is a total f&*k of a thing to work around. I have
    already made a lengthy post here which was commented on by others. I
    learnt a heck of a lot about DVD zoning, circumvention of zoning and
    drives and the business in my arguments over the DVD drive that came
    with my laptop.

    > You will note that when the are copy protected the do NOT have the CD
    > label on them. You CHOSE to buy them, and if it was not clear they were
    > copy protected then under the consumer guarantees act you can take them
    > back.


    Tried it? I have not as the CDs with copy protection were ones I had
    had for a while so the recipts were long gone. Yes, I could take my
    argument to the distributor but like they care. Going back to the
    laptop, the whole issue with zoning and DRM is too complex for store
    staff, managers and most of head office (with the DVD laptop problem
    the head office people were asking the IT staff for advice). Add that
    to the general reluctance to accept the CGA/FTA for anything other
    than an excuse to rort NZers on price and the signs all over town that
    amount "if we can play the disc when you return it then no refund" and
    you have a hugly costly (in the sense of time) argument ahead of you
    for the sake of a $25-35 piece of plastic, which you can just download
    at CD quality anyway thanks to kind and generous people on the
    internet.

    > I have no issues with zone free players, I have 3 even though I only
    > have zone 4 DVDs. Nor do I have a problem with people transferring the
    > CDs they own onto iPods and the like. However downloading music, movies,
    > etc that you have not purchaced I do have a problem with.


    What about copying DVDs you own? Kids DVDs are notorious for getting
    scratched, still illegal though in NZ. Want to dump your DVD, that you
    own to Hard drive to play via media center? Still illegal. Copying
    music to ipods etc has only recently been made legal did you ever
    break the law before it was legal? what was your excuse if you did? I
    mean, technically the licence you had for the music did not have an
    override to allow format shifting.

    IANAL but from memory VLC media player is technically illegal as it
    breaks the encyption on the DVD which is still illegal. In fact unless
    you only use the big commercial players that pay licence fees the DVD
    software is technically beraking the law.

    > Which is why I buy CDs and DVDs and not buy DRM music online. However
    > many online stores also have non protected high quality music for sale
    > so there is no excuse.


    But for most consumers they do not, nor should they have to know or
    care about the DRM. The only time consumers find out is when it blows
    up in thier face take Microsofts old music servers which after public
    backlash they turned back on and a similar incident recently involving
    some walmart music thing. I have had bad experiences with the DRM on
    the coke music store (never did get that song to play) and with the
    public library audiobook download which rooted windows media player.

    > But its nice to see you have bought into the
    > conspiracy theory to help justify your views.... just another piece of
    > sophistry.


    No conspiracy theory, thats obviously just you trying to argue with
    nothing left. I am not trying to confuse anyone and my 'argument' was
    factual and logical.

    If, as a business owner or executive you ignore market trends and
    'stay the course' and continue to 'stay the course' after failure
    after faliure then your business deserves to die. Other businesses
    have worked out ways to monetise change rather than just fight it. The
    executives of the music and movie industries stuck thier heads in the
    sand and pretty much hoped the internet would go away. Then they knee
    jerk reacted (for example the infamous root kit, and the badly
    implmented DRM) which annoyed the consumers affected. They were far
    too slow to work out how to distribute music online with iTunes being
    the first really successful model.

    Point out my factual faliures and I will be happy to address them.

    > > The music and movie industries have decided on the business strategy
    > > of selling a lower quality product for a higher price, I don't know
    > > how much their executives are paid but it's obviously too much.

    >
    > CDs are a MUCH higher quality product than LPs or tapes ever were, true
    > too of DVDs vs VHS tapes and blueray is higher still. Equally when CDs
    > came out there were up to $70 each, or over $120 in current inflation
    > adjusted terms, there are currently many CDs available for less than
    > 1/10th of that now.
    > Equally you can buy single tracks as opposed to buying a whole CD so
    > this has allowed people to buy their music collections at a much reduced
    > price.
    > Online too there is a much wider selection than possible through a
    > physical store and we also have a massive wide selection from around the
    > world than had ever been previously possible.


    As I mentioned they were too slow. By the time they had a model that
    worked 'the internet' had been providing the same service for free for
    years. Then to top it all off when they finally get thier stuff
    together it was initally all compressed when 'the internet' was
    offering CD quality and full DVD rips.

    When I said 'higher quality' I did not mean the LP/CD or VHS/DVD
    difference. I meant the fact that as an informed consumer I can choose
    between paying for a DRM laden DVD that in a few years time I might
    not be able to view without difficulty which comes with a box and
    piece of plastic that I don't want and adverts at the begining I can't
    skip, or I can
    just go download it.

    > So the facts it seems do not stack up for you at all.....


    I don't understand this comment at all. All I was pointing out was
    that in the real world people don't just change the way they do things
    because a business if finally providing the product they have wanted.
    People have gotten used to the idea of copying music from thier
    friends and off the internet because until iTunes came along, other
    than piracy (arr arr) there was no other way to get the one good track
    from the pop CD or to get a song easily on to your iPod without having
    to go through the rigmarole of ripping it, tagging it etc.

    Which does not make it right but then again neither was copying music
    to ipods less than 3 years ago.

    You are quite right that with a store like iTunes offering (finally)
    non-DRM music at track by track reasonable prices people should not be
    pirating but the fact is they have had to for so long that now it is
    second nature.

    As I pointed out they were just too slow, society accellerated past
    them while they stood around scratching thier testicles and they are
    going to have to work hard to catchup.

    But catching up is hard to do when you do are the 'bad guy'. At the
    same time as they are hoping people will stop being mean and stealing
    thier product they are literally buying legislation. You want a
    conspiracy? You can't tell me that almost every western nation
    happened to come up with the idea of a 3 strikes law at the same time
    by chance?

    They contiunue to use DRM on CD media (last time I had a random look
    none of the modern CDs have the CD logo anymore). They continue to
    bleat on about falling album sales while selling single tracks online
    (work it out, its not all piracy). They manipulate the statistics
    (every downloaded song is a lost sale! whatever). In one breath they
    say that as an act of goodwill they will cease prosecuting music
    pirates for a while and then prosecute some music pirates. In short
    they lie.

    I used to think, as you do now, that copying was bad. I felt guilty
    when I was at high school and could not afford a computer game or CD
    and I would copy it or a group of us would chip in and buy it and copy
    it. Later on when I had money I bought some of those same albums on CD
    (not the games though). I used to actually register shareware back in
    the day that shareware was popular. But I hate having to work at
    getting fair use out of what I buy. Why pay to be treated as a
    criminal?

    The main reason I still buy DVDs and CDs is because deep down I like
    having a 'thing'. But everytime I sit down to watch and get forced to
    watch some crappy advert or FBI warnings for three differnt countries
    I wonder why I paid for that.

    The movie industry still has a chance, currently it is still better
    from a quality and enjoyment point of view to purchase or rent rather
    than download but times are changing fast and so should they. If they
    have smarts they'll succeed where the big music companies failed.
    SlowLearner, Jun 10, 2009
    #10
  11. victor

    victor Guest

    SlowLearner wrote:

    >
    > IANAL but from memory VLC media player is technically illegal as it
    > breaks the encyption on the DVD which is still illegal. In fact unless
    > you only use the big commercial players that pay licence fees the DVD
    > software is technically beraking the law.


    The DVD logo means the license has been paid and the DVD association has
    supplied the keys.
    New Zealand doesn't have the US DMCA and is not a party to the WIPO
    copyright treaty
    If you are using VLC to view a DVD, that is not an infringing act, and
    using it to defeat region coding seems to be explicitly exempted by the
    Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Act

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2008/0027/latest/whole.html#DLM1122723

    Definitions of TPM terms

    *

    In sections 226A to 226E, unless the context otherwise requires,—

    “TPM or technological protection measure—
    o

    “(a) means any process, treatment, mechanism, device, or
    system that in the normal course of its operation prevents or inhibits
    the infringement of copyright in a TPM work; but
    o

    “(b) for the avoidance of doubt, does not include a
    process, treatment, mechanism, device, or system to the extent that, in
    the normal course of operation, it only controls any access to a work
    for non-infringing purposes (for example, it does not include a process,
    treatment, mechanism, device, or system to the extent that it controls
    geographic market segmentation by preventing the playback in New Zealand
    of a non-infringing copy of a work)
    victor, Jun 10, 2009
    #11
  12. victor

    victor Guest

    SlowLearner wrote:

    >
    > IANAL but from memory VLC media player is technically illegal as it
    > breaks the encyption on the DVD which is still illegal. In fact unless
    > you only use the big commercial players that pay licence fees the DVD
    > software is technically beraking the law.


    The DVD logo means the license has been paid and the DVD association has
    supplied the keys.
    New Zealand doesn't have the US DMCA and is not a party to the WIPO
    copyright treaty
    If you are using VLC to view a DVD, that is not an infringing act, and
    using it to defeat region coding seems to be explicitly exempted by the
    Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Act

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2008/0027/latest/whole.html#DLM1122723

    Definitions of TPM terms

    *

    In sections 226A to 226E, unless the context otherwise requires,—

    “TPM or technological protection measure—
    o

    “(a) means any process, treatment, mechanism, device, or
    system that in the normal course of its operation prevents or inhibits
    the infringement of copyright in a TPM work; but
    o

    “(b) for the avoidance of doubt, does not include a
    process, treatment, mechanism, device, or system to the extent that, in
    the normal course of operation, it only controls any access to a work
    for non-infringing purposes (for example, it does not include a process,
    treatment, mechanism, device, or system to the extent that it controls
    geographic market segmentation by preventing the playback in New Zealand
    of a non-infringing copy of a work)
    victor, Jun 10, 2009
    #12
  13. victor

    victor Guest

    SlowLearner wrote:

    >
    > IANAL but from memory VLC media player is technically illegal as it
    > breaks the encyption on the DVD which is still illegal. In fact unless
    > you only use the big commercial players that pay licence fees the DVD
    > software is technically beraking the law.


    The DVD logo means the license has been paid and the DVD association has
    supplied the keys.
    New Zealand doesn't have the US DMCA and is not a party to the WIPO
    copyright treaty
    If you are using VLC to view a DVD, that is not an infringing act, and
    using it to defeat region coding seems to be explicitly exempted by the
    Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Act

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2008/0027/latest/whole.html#DLM1122723

    Definitions of TPM terms

    *

    In sections 226A to 226E, unless the context otherwise requires,—

    “TPM or technological protection measure—
    o

    “(a) means any process, treatment, mechanism, device, or
    system that in the normal course of its operation prevents or inhibits
    the infringement of copyright in a TPM work; but
    o

    “(b) for the avoidance of doubt, does not include a
    process, treatment, mechanism, device, or system to the extent that, in
    the normal course of operation, it only controls any access to a work
    for non-infringing purposes (for example, it does not include a process,
    treatment, mechanism, device, or system to the extent that it controls
    geographic market segmentation by preventing the playback in New Zealand
    of a non-infringing copy of a work)
    victor, Jun 10, 2009
    #13
  14. In message <>, whoisthis wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > Mutley <> wrote:
    >
    >> I gave up years ago waiting for NZ TV networks to play lots of these
    >> programs.

    >
    > And you can not buy the DVDs from overseas ??


    But that's infringement of the content holders' Intellectual Property rights
    too, isn't it? After all, they made their content available on the
    understanding it would be controlled by region-coding restrictions. When you
    buy DVDs from overseas, you're infringing these restrictions--doesn't that
    count as stealing the content? Or do you believe that certain kinds of
    Intellectual Property infringement are OK?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jun 13, 2009
    #14
  15. victor

    victor Guest

    whoisthis wrote:

    >
    > iTunes, easily and cheaply, thus there is no excuse..... oh wait unless
    > what they mean by cheaply is not to pay anything...


    A great way of money laundering.
    "A group, including a number of DJs, have been accused of making
    hundreds of thousands of pounds by buying their own music online with
    stolen credit cards."
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/music/newsid_8094000/8094637.stm
    victor, Jun 13, 2009
    #15
  16. victor

    victor Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <h0v2bq$1j1$>, victor <> wrote:
    >
    >> whoisthis wrote:
    >>
    >>> iTunes, easily and cheaply, thus there is no excuse..... oh wait unless
    >>> what they mean by cheaply is not to pay anything...

    >> A great way of money laundering.
    >> "A group, including a number of DJs, have been accused of making
    >> hundreds of thousands of pounds by buying their own music online with
    >> stolen credit cards."
    >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/music/newsid_8094000/8094637.stm

    >
    > As with all things, they are designed for honest people and there will
    > always be those who can not create, so seek to destroy.


    It is probably only the tip of the iceberg.
    How much are Apple and Amazon pocketing from similar scams ?
    victor, Jun 13, 2009
    #16
  17. victor

    David Empson Guest

    victor <> wrote:

    > whoisthis wrote:
    > > In article <h0v2bq$1j1$>, victor <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> whoisthis wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> iTunes, easily and cheaply, thus there is no excuse..... oh wait unless
    > >>> what they mean by cheaply is not to pay anything...
    > >> A great way of money laundering.
    > >> "A group, including a number of DJs, have been accused of making
    > >> hundreds of thousands of pounds by buying their own music online with
    > >> stolen credit cards."
    > >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/music/newsid_8094000/8094637.stm

    > >
    > > As with all things, they are designed for honest people and there will
    > > always be those who can not create, so seek to destroy.

    >
    > It is probably only the tip of the iceberg.
    > How much are Apple and Amazon pocketing from similar scams ?


    Apple says they don't make a lot of money on music sales - enough to
    cover the cost of providing the service, so presumably there is a small
    profit involved. The bulk of the sale price goes to the record company
    (or indie). I expect this could be estimated based on Apple's quarterly
    financial reports (broken down into company segments) and their reported
    number of music sales within the same period, but I haven't gone hunting
    for a detailed analysis.

    The main point of the iTunes Store is for Apple to sell more iPods and
    iPhones, which is where they make the money. It ensures there is a legal
    supply of music which can be downloaded for use on iPods and iPhones,
    and it can be accessed directly from the iPod Touch and iPhone. (Music
    sales for use on Mac OS or Windows are a side benefit.)

    --
    David Empson
    David Empson, Jun 13, 2009
    #17
  18. victor

    victor Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <h0v6mm$50s$>, victor <> wrote:
    >
    >> whoisthis wrote:
    >>> In article <h0v2bq$1j1$>, victor <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> whoisthis wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> iTunes, easily and cheaply, thus there is no excuse..... oh wait unless
    >>>>> what they mean by cheaply is not to pay anything...
    >>>> A great way of money laundering.
    >>>> "A group, including a number of DJs, have been accused of making
    >>>> hundreds of thousands of pounds by buying their own music online with
    >>>> stolen credit cards."
    >>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/music/newsid_8094000/8094637.stm
    >>> As with all things, they are designed for honest people and there will
    >>> always be those who can not create, so seek to destroy.

    >> It is probably only the tip of the iceberg.
    >> How much are Apple and Amazon pocketing from similar scams ?

    >
    > Thats right up there is asking how much oil companies are pocketing from
    > stolen cars.


    Not a great analogy, think about it.
    victor, Jun 13, 2009
    #18
  19. victor

    victor Guest

    David Empson wrote:
    > victor <> wrote:
    >
    >> whoisthis wrote:
    >>> In article <h0v2bq$1j1$>, victor <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> whoisthis wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> iTunes, easily and cheaply, thus there is no excuse..... oh wait unless
    >>>>> what they mean by cheaply is not to pay anything...
    >>>> A great way of money laundering.
    >>>> "A group, including a number of DJs, have been accused of making
    >>>> hundreds of thousands of pounds by buying their own music online with
    >>>> stolen credit cards."
    >>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/music/newsid_8094000/8094637.stm
    >>> As with all things, they are designed for honest people and there will
    >>> always be those who can not create, so seek to destroy.

    >> It is probably only the tip of the iceberg.
    >> How much are Apple and Amazon pocketing from similar scams ?

    >
    > Apple says they don't make a lot of money on music sales - enough to
    > cover the cost of providing the service, so presumably there is a small
    > profit involved. The bulk of the sale price goes to the record company
    > (or indie). I expect this could be estimated based on Apple's quarterly
    > financial reports (broken down into company segments) and their reported
    > number of music sales within the same period, but I haven't gone hunting
    > for a detailed analysis.
    >
    > The main point of the iTunes Store is for Apple to sell more iPods and
    > iPhones, which is where they make the money. It ensures there is a legal
    > supply of music which can be downloaded for use on iPods and iPhones,
    > and it can be accessed directly from the iPod Touch and iPhone. (Music
    > sales for use on Mac OS or Windows are a side benefit.)
    >


    The figures are in the article. 459k spent for 200k return, so who kept
    the major share ?
    Its a great way of money laundering.
    victor, Jun 13, 2009
    #19
  20. victor

    victor Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <h0vke7$gs0$>, victor <> wrote:
    >
    >> whoisthis wrote:
    >>> In article <h0v6mm$50s$>, victor <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> whoisthis wrote:
    >>>>> In article <h0v2bq$1j1$>, victor <> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> whoisthis wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> iTunes, easily and cheaply, thus there is no excuse..... oh wait unless
    >>>>>>> what they mean by cheaply is not to pay anything...
    >>>>>> A great way of money laundering.
    >>>>>> "A group, including a number of DJs, have been accused of making
    >>>>>> hundreds of thousands of pounds by buying their own music online with
    >>>>>> stolen credit cards."
    >>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/music/newsid_8094000/8094637.stm
    >>>>> As with all things, they are designed for honest people and there will
    >>>>> always be those who can not create, so seek to destroy.
    >>>> It is probably only the tip of the iceberg.
    >>>> How much are Apple and Amazon pocketing from similar scams ?
    >>> Thats right up there is asking how much oil companies are pocketing from
    >>> stolen cars.

    >> Not a great analogy, think about it.

    >
    > Oh... I think it is just as accurate.


    Only if the crooks made the cars and bought them with dirty money to
    launder it. Its a lot better than other methods like racing and gambling
    victor, Jun 13, 2009
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Lodi

    Torrent and section 92A question

    Lodi, Feb 17, 2009, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    21
    Views:
    1,304
  2. Nik Coughlin

    Internet Blackout NZ - protest Section 92a

    Nik Coughlin, Feb 17, 2009, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    6
    Views:
    367
    PeeCee
    Feb 18, 2009
  3. Nik Coughlin

    Section 92a on hold

    Nik Coughlin, Feb 23, 2009, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    11
    Views:
    631
    PeeCee
    Feb 24, 2009
  4. Nik Coughlin
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    376
    oneofus
    Mar 13, 2009
  5. Nik Coughlin

    Google has its say on Section 92A

    Nik Coughlin, Mar 19, 2009, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    446
    ~misfit~
    Mar 23, 2009
Loading...

Share This Page