Seagate SeaTools for Windows. utter Rubish

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Woger, Mar 29, 2009.

  1. Woger

    Woger Guest

    Testing a FreeAgent drive and the drive was playing up started to click,
    Windows SeaTools Test shows that Drive as 100% but not even showing on the
    Desktop, and I tested the drive over and over again still 100%..

    BUT after quitting SeaTools and running it again it, then could not find the
    drive..

    So how can you trust SeaTools..?
    Woger, Mar 29, 2009
    #1
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  2. Woger

    Arno Guest

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Woger <> wrote:


    > Testing a FreeAgent drive and the drive was playing up started to click,
    > Windows SeaTools Test shows that Drive as 100% but not even showing on the
    > Desktop, and I tested the drive over and over again still 100%..


    > BUT after quitting SeaTools and running it again it, then could not find the
    > drive..


    > So how can you trust SeaTools..?


    You cannot?

    Arno
    Arno, Mar 29, 2009
    #2
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  3. In message <>, Woger wrote:

    > So how can you trust SeaTools..?


    Weren't you the one recommending it before?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Mar 29, 2009
    #3
  4. Woger

    Richard Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <>, Woger wrote:
    >
    >> So how can you trust SeaTools..?

    >
    > Weren't you the one recommending it before?


    No, I believe he had just attached the crap mark to all other disk
    diagnostic products leaving it as the only non crap one.

    Considering that a drive need not be partitioned or have a drive letter
    assigned to it to be able to be tested in seatools I fail to see the not
    displaying in my computer as being anything to be concerned about.

    Its the only one that when you get a faulty answer from its basically no
    problem to return the drive, so it still gets a lot of use from me.

    Even when I have drives which kept having errors kicking them out of a
    raid-5 set they tested fine with seatools so basically it is worthless
    unless you keep testing till you get errors, and some of the long tests
    take ages.
    Richard, Mar 29, 2009
    #4
  5. Woger

    Juarez Guest

    "Woger" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > So how can you trust SeaTools..?
    >


    You can't. I had a similar thing happen with Samsung diagnostics, it never
    found a bad sector on one of my HDDs that HDTune found using the long scan.
    Quickscan would pass but not the long scan and the HDD was definitely the
    culprit for my BSOD at the time.
    Juarez, Mar 29, 2009
    #5
  6. Woger

    impossible Guest

    "Ato_Zee" <> wrote in message
    news:CmLzl.237660$2...
    >
    > On 29-Mar-2009, Arno <> wrote:
    >
    >> > So how can you trust SeaTools..?

    >>
    >> You cannot?

    >
    > Found the same thing, SeaTools is rubbish.
    > Profitable rubbish if it doesn't find faults with
    > drives that should be RMA'd.


    If a Seagate drive fails under waranty, Seagate will replace it. End of
    story.
    impossible, Mar 29, 2009
    #6
  7. "Ato_Zee" <> wrote in news:CmLzl.237660$Bt3.58818
    @newsfe03.ams2:

    >
    > On 29-Mar-2009, Arno <> wrote:
    >
    >> > So how can you trust SeaTools..?

    >>
    >> You cannot?

    >
    > Found the same thing, SeaTools is rubbish.
    > Profitable rubbish if it doesn't find faults with
    > drives that should be RMA'd.


    It works with any drive, too, so it would seem that it has no special
    knowledge of Seagate drives that other drive utilities don't have, imho.
    If I'm incorrect please let me know.
    Justin Goldberg, Mar 29, 2009
    #7
  8. Woger

    impossible Guest

    "Justin Goldberg" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9BDD83A49AAF4j1u2s3t4i5n6forXnews@69.16.185.247...
    > "Ato_Zee" <> wrote in news:CmLzl.237660$Bt3.58818
    > @newsfe03.ams2:
    >
    >>
    >> On 29-Mar-2009, Arno <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> > So how can you trust SeaTools..?
    >>>
    >>> You cannot?

    >>
    >> Found the same thing, SeaTools is rubbish.
    >> Profitable rubbish if it doesn't find faults with
    >> drives that should be RMA'd.

    >
    > It works with any drive, too, so it would seem that it has no special
    > knowledge of Seagate drives that other drive utilities don't have, imho.
    > If I'm incorrect please let me know.


    SeaTools reads SMART data, which can only be interpreted accurately for a
    given drive by the drive's manufacturer. The same would apply for any
    manufacturer's diagnostic tools. Third-party tools that pretend to know
    better are complete and utter frauds.
    impossible, Mar 29, 2009
    #8
  9. In message <gqnl3t$da9$>, Richard wrote:

    > Considering that a drive need not be partitioned or have a drive letter
    > assigned to it to be able to be tested in seatools I fail to see the not
    > displaying in my computer as being anything to be concerned about.


    You mean, you can't see or use a drive if it hasn't been partitioned?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Mar 29, 2009
    #9
  10. Woger

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 20:36:02 GMT, "impossible" <>
    put finger to keyboard and composed:

    >SeaTools reads SMART data, which can only be interpreted accurately for a
    >given drive by the drive's manufacturer. The same would apply for any
    >manufacturer's diagnostic tools. Third-party tools that pretend to know
    >better are complete and utter frauds.


    A drive manufacturer's diagnostic will pass a drive that has, say, 500
    reallocated sectors, but a tool such as HD Sentinel may fail it. In
    this particular case I'd fail it, too. I certainly wouldn't trust such
    a drive with my data. However, I agree that the raw SMART data don't
    always make much sense, unless you know how the manufacturer has
    encoded them.

    - Franc Zabkar
    --
    Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
    Franc Zabkar, Mar 29, 2009
    #10
  11. Woger

    Woger Guest

    On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 20:36:02 GMT, "impossible" <> wrote:

    >
    >"Justin Goldberg" <> wrote in message
    >news:Xns9BDD83A49AAF4j1u2s3t4i5n6forXnews@69.16.185.247...
    >> "Ato_Zee" <> wrote in news:CmLzl.237660$Bt3.58818
    >> @newsfe03.ams2:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> On 29-Mar-2009, Arno <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> > So how can you trust SeaTools..?
    >>>>
    >>>> You cannot?
    >>>
    >>> Found the same thing, SeaTools is rubbish.
    >>> Profitable rubbish if it doesn't find faults with
    >>> drives that should be RMA'd.

    >>
    >> It works with any drive, too, so it would seem that it has no special
    >> knowledge of Seagate drives that other drive utilities don't have, imho.
    >> If I'm incorrect please let me know.

    >
    >SeaTools reads SMART data, which can only be interpreted accurately for a
    >given drive by the drive's manufacturer. The same would apply for any
    >manufacturer's diagnostic tools. Third-party tools that pretend to know
    >better are complete and utter frauds.




    Seagate dose not support SMART reporting on there USB drives, other firms
    do..
    Woger, Mar 29, 2009
    #11
  12. Woger

    Woger Guest

    On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 09:41:09 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    <_zealand> wrote:

    >In message <gqnl3t$da9$>, Richard wrote:
    >
    >> Considering that a drive need not be partitioned or have a drive letter
    >> assigned to it to be able to be tested in seatools I fail to see the not
    >> displaying in my computer as being anything to be concerned about.

    >
    >You mean, you can't see or use a drive if it hasn't been partitioned?



    They come partitioned with software on them.
    Woger, Mar 29, 2009
    #12
  13. Woger

    Richard Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <gqnl3t$da9$>, Richard wrote:
    >
    >> Considering that a drive need not be partitioned or have a drive letter
    >> assigned to it to be able to be tested in seatools I fail to see the not
    >> displaying in my computer as being anything to be concerned about.

    >
    > You mean, you can't see or use a drive if it hasn't been partitioned?


    Correct.

    You can see the drive in computer management in order to create
    partitions, but untill you do that there is nothing in my computer.
    Richard, Mar 30, 2009
    #13
  14. Woger

    impossible Guest

    "Franc Zabkar" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 20:36:02 GMT, "impossible" <>
    > put finger to keyboard and composed:
    >
    >>SeaTools reads SMART data, which can only be interpreted accurately for a
    >>given drive by the drive's manufacturer. The same would apply for any
    >>manufacturer's diagnostic tools. Third-party tools that pretend to know
    >>better are complete and utter frauds.

    >
    > A drive manufacturer's diagnostic will pass a drive that has, say, 500
    > reallocated sectors, but a tool such as HD Sentinel may fail it.



    Reallocated sectors are commonplace, and they do not necessarily signal a
    failing frive. In any case, you cannot RMA a drive based on an HD Sentinel
    report. Either the drives passes a manufacturer diagnostic or it doesn't.

    > In this particular case I'd fail it, too. I certainly wouldn't trust such
    > a drive with my data.


    That's why you run daily backups.

    > However, I agree that the raw SMART data don't
    > always make much sense, unless you know how the manufacturer has
    > encoded them.
    >


    That's why you're wasting your time with tools like HD Sentinel.
    impossible, Mar 30, 2009
    #14
  15. Woger

    Rod Speed Guest

    impossible wrote
    > Justin Goldberg <> wrote
    >> Ato_Zee <> wrote
    >>> Arno <> wrote


    >>>>> So how can you trust SeaTools..?


    >>>> You cannot?


    >>> Found the same thing, SeaTools is rubbish.
    >>> Profitable rubbish if it doesn't find faults with
    >>> drives that should be RMA'd.


    >> It works with any drive, too, so it would seem that it has no special knowledge of Seagate drives that other drive
    >> utilities don't have, imho. If I'm incorrect please let me know.


    > SeaTools reads SMART data,


    Yes.

    > which can only be interpreted accurately for a given drive by the drive's manufacturer.


    Wrong.

    > The same would apply for any manufacturer's diagnostic tools.


    Wrong again.

    > Third-party tools that pretend to know better are complete and utter frauds.


    Wrong, as always.
    Rod Speed, Mar 30, 2009
    #15
  16. Woger

    Rod Speed Guest

    impossible wrote
    > Franc Zabkar <> wrote
    >> impossible <> wrote


    >>> SeaTools reads SMART data, which can only be interpreted accurately for a given drive by the drive's manufacturer.
    >>> The same would apply for any manufacturer's diagnostic tools. Third-party tools that pretend to know better are
    >>> complete and utter frauds.


    >> A drive manufacturer's diagnostic will pass a drive that has, say,
    >> 500 reallocated sectors, but a tool such as HD Sentinel may fail it.


    > Reallocated sectors are commonplace,


    Yes.

    > and they do not necessarily signal a failing frive.


    That many certainly does.

    > In any case, you cannot RMA a drive based on an HD Sentinel report.


    Yes.

    > Either the drives passes a manufacturer diagnostic or it doesn't.


    Legally its much more complicated than that.

    >> In this particular case I'd fail it, too. I certainly wouldn't trust such a drive with my data.


    > That's why you run daily backups.


    Pity about the stuff that gets lost between them.

    >> However, I agree that the raw SMART data don't always make much sense, unless you know how the manufacturer has
    >> encoded them.


    > That's why you're wasting your time with tools like HD Sentinel.


    Wrong, as always.
    Rod Speed, Mar 30, 2009
    #16
  17. Woger

    Richard Guest

    impossible wrote:

    >>> SeaTools reads SMART data, which can only be interpreted accurately
    >>> for a
    >>> given drive by the drive's manufacturer. The same would apply for any
    >>> manufacturer's diagnostic tools. Third-party tools that pretend to know
    >>> better are complete and utter frauds.

    >>
    >> A drive manufacturer's diagnostic will pass a drive that has, say, 500
    >> reallocated sectors, but a tool such as HD Sentinel may fail it.

    >
    >
    > Reallocated sectors are commonplace, and they do not necessarily signal
    > a failing frive. In any case, you cannot RMA a drive based on an HD
    > Sentinel report. Either the drives passes a manufacturer diagnostic or
    > it doesn't.


    No, but you can RMA it if it is haveing issues that get logged by
    windows liek delayed write failures, getting kicked out of a raid all
    the time, read errors etc. Done it before.

    >> However, I agree that the raw SMART data don't
    >> always make much sense, unless you know how the manufacturer has
    >> encoded them.
    >>

    >
    > That's why you're wasting your time with tools like HD Sentinel.


    They never work when I have tried them anyway. The only controller I can
    use smart on here is an onboard that pretends its pata - everything else
    will not do smart.
    Richard, Mar 30, 2009
    #17
  18. Woger

    impossible Guest

    "Richard" <> wrote in message
    news:gqpblr$tlk$...
    > impossible wrote:
    >
    >>>> SeaTools reads SMART data, which can only be interpreted accurately for
    >>>> a
    >>>> given drive by the drive's manufacturer. The same would apply for any
    >>>> manufacturer's diagnostic tools. Third-party tools that pretend to know
    >>>> better are complete and utter frauds.
    >>>
    >>> A drive manufacturer's diagnostic will pass a drive that has, say, 500
    >>> reallocated sectors, but a tool such as HD Sentinel may fail it.

    >>
    >>
    >> Reallocated sectors are commonplace, and they do not necessarily signal a
    >> failing frive. In any case, you cannot RMA a drive based on an HD
    >> Sentinel report. Either the drives passes a manufacturer diagnostic or it
    >> doesn't.

    >
    > No, but you can RMA it if it is haveing issues that get logged by windows
    > liek delayed write failures, getting kicked out of a raid all the time,
    > read errors etc. Done it before.
    >


    Only if the manufacturer approves, and iun the end they're going to use
    their own diagnostic tools to make that decision. Maybe you got a vendor to
    take back a poorly performing drive, but if the vendfor then RMA's the drive
    to the manufacturer under warranty, you can be sure that the manufacturer
    ran their own tests before shipping a free replacement.

    >>> However, I agree that the raw SMART data don't
    >>> always make much sense, unless you know how the manufacturer has
    >>> encoded them.
    >>>

    >>
    >> That's why you're wasting your time with tools like HD Sentinel.

    >
    > They never work when I have tried them anyway. The only controller I can
    > use smart on here is an onboard that pretends its pata - everything else
    > will not do smart.


    I don't know of any drive manufactured in the last 8-10 years that doesn't
    do SMART.
    impossible, Mar 30, 2009
    #18
  19. Woger

    Arno Guest

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage impossible <> wrote:

    > "Justin Goldberg" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns9BDD83A49AAF4j1u2s3t4i5n6forXnews@69.16.185.247...
    >> "Ato_Zee" <> wrote in news:CmLzl.237660$Bt3.58818
    >> @newsfe03.ams2:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> On 29-Mar-2009, Arno <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> > So how can you trust SeaTools..?
    >>>>
    >>>> You cannot?
    >>>
    >>> Found the same thing, SeaTools is rubbish.
    >>> Profitable rubbish if it doesn't find faults with
    >>> drives that should be RMA'd.

    >>
    >> It works with any drive, too, so it would seem that it has no special
    >> knowledge of Seagate drives that other drive utilities don't have, imho.
    >> If I'm incorrect please let me know.


    > SeaTools reads SMART data, which can only be interpreted accurately for a
    > given drive by the drive's manufacturer. The same would apply for any
    > manufacturer's diagnostic tools. Third-party tools that pretend to know
    > better are complete and utter frauds.


    Not necessarily. First, there are the manufacturer thresholds. Then
    there are experience values that can be better than the thresholds,
    for example for reallocated sectors and poending sectors. Also a
    third party tool can have a database of disk pecularities.

    Interpretation of SMART data has been done in this group for years.
    There is not reason at all to put this into a tool.

    Arno
    Arno, Mar 30, 2009
    #19
  20. Woger

    Arno Guest

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage impossible <> wrote:

    > "Franc Zabkar" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 20:36:02 GMT, "impossible" <>
    >> put finger to keyboard and composed:
    >>
    >>>SeaTools reads SMART data, which can only be interpreted accurately for a
    >>>given drive by the drive's manufacturer. The same would apply for any
    >>>manufacturer's diagnostic tools. Third-party tools that pretend to know
    >>>better are complete and utter frauds.

    >>
    >> A drive manufacturer's diagnostic will pass a drive that has, say, 500
    >> reallocated sectors, but a tool such as HD Sentinel may fail it.



    > Reallocated sectors are commonplace, and they do not necessarily signal a
    > failing frive. In any case, you cannot RMA a drive based on an HD Sentinel
    > report. Either the drives passes a manufacturer diagnostic or it doesn't.


    In practice, you can RMA any drive, even one that is perfectly fine.

    Also certain numbers of reallocated sectod do signal a failing drive,
    and a steady increase over a certain rate does to. Not with maximum
    reliability, but SMART also is about early warning, so a bit of
    paranoia is a good idea.

    >> In this particular case I'd fail it, too. I certainly wouldn't trust such
    >> a drive with my data.


    > That's why you run daily backups.


    >> However, I agree that the raw SMART data don't
    >> always make much sense, unless you know how the manufacturer has
    >> encoded them.
    >>


    > That's why you're wasting your time with tools like HD Sentinel.


    Not at all. Seem to me you have limited experience with SMART.

    Arno
    Arno, Mar 30, 2009
    #20
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