SD9 vs. D60 NOISE COMPARISON !!!

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Annika1980, Nov 16, 2003.

  1. Annika1980

    Annika1980 Guest

    Annika1980, Nov 16, 2003
    #1
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  2. "Annika1980" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Now the truth can be told!
    >
    > http://www.pbase.com/image/23330194/original


    That's called a very, very blurry sensor. The 6MP Canons are extremely
    noisey cameras compared to the SD-9, you can see controlled comparisons in
    the link below. While its obvious from the samples that the Canons are
    really bad, Canon's NR routines are designed to spread noise beneath the
    detection gate of the analysis program dpreview used to generate the graph,
    you can see the noise in huge low frequency blobs which successfully fool
    the anayisis program as it looks only for high frequency noise. Also note,
    dpreview to this day refuses to test a production SD-9, their reveiw SD-9
    used beta firmware (as noted on the bottom of the page, even though
    production firmware had been released in time). The SD-9's production
    firmware halves red noise, and significantly decreases blue and green. The
    newest firmware, which is leaking out as we speak, reduces noise even more
    and fixes all remaining "issues" with the camera, notably, redering skin
    tones differently by default, adjusting the matrix metering, and eliminating
    blooming overexposures.

    As you can see, Canon isn't competive with SD-9 noise levels even using the
    beta firmware dpreview used to generate their review...

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmasd9/page15.asp
     
    George Preddy, Nov 16, 2003
    #2
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  3. Annika1980

    Guest

    In message <bp80qr$5bj$>,
    "George Preddy" <> wrote:

    >As you can see, Canon isn't competive with SD-9 noise levels even using the
    >beta firmware dpreview used to generate their review...


    >http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmasd9/page15.asp


    Where's the 10D or 300D review? The D60 is three-year-old technology.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
     
    , Nov 16, 2003
    #3
  4. Annika1980

    Annika1980 Guest

    >From: "George Preddy"

    >http://www.pbase.com/image/23330194/original
    >
    >That's called a very, very blurry sensor. The 6MP Canons are extremely
    >noisey cameras compared to the SD-9, you can see controlled comparisons in
    >the link below.


    The problem with your arguments is that they are in opposition to the examples
    you have shown.

    You say the SD9 has lower noise.
    Yet your photos have higher noise levels.

    You say the D60 produces jaggies.
    Your SD9 images make cat hairs look like a string of beads.

    You claim that dpreview is using an early prototype ("beta firmware") for their
    tests, and yet your real-world samples suck donkey.

    Can you explain why just about everyone who has seen our comparison photos
    thinks that the D60 images are superior?

    Is everyone else delusional or is it just you?
     
    Annika1980, Nov 16, 2003
    #4
  5. <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In message <bp80qr$5bj$>,
    > "George Preddy" <> wrote:
    >
    > >As you can see, Canon isn't competive with SD-9 noise levels even using

    the
    > >beta firmware dpreview used to generate their review...

    >
    > >http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmasd9/page15.asp

    >
    > Where's the 10D or 300D review? The D60 is three-year-old technology.


    Read the text, dpreview (a Canon commercial) says the D60 outperforms the
    10D, which is why it was used (against a beta firmware SD-9).
     
    George Preddy, Nov 16, 2003
    #5
  6. "Annika1980" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >From: "George Preddy"

    >
    > >http://www.pbase.com/image/23330194/original
    > >
    > >That's called a very, very blurry sensor. The 6MP Canons are extremely
    > >noisey cameras compared to the SD-9, you can see controlled comparisons

    in
    > >the link below.

    >
    > The problem with your arguments is that they are in opposition to the

    examples
    > you have shown.
    >
    > You say the SD9 has lower noise.
    > Yet your photos have higher noise levels.


    Not even close, the D60 pic is a real mess. The rest of your post is
    similar trolling.
     
    George Preddy, Nov 16, 2003
    #6
  7. Annika1980

    George Kerby Guest

    On 11/16/03 1:07 PM, in article
    , "Annika1980"
    <> wrote:

    >> From: "George Preddy"

    >
    >> http://www.pbase.com/image/23330194/original
    >>
    >> That's called a very, very blurry sensor. The 6MP Canons are extremely
    >> noisey cameras compared to the SD-9, you can see controlled comparisons in
    >> the link below.

    >
    > The problem with your arguments is that they are in opposition to the examples
    > you have shown.
    >
    > You say the SD9 has lower noise.
    > Yet your photos have higher noise levels.
    >
    > You say the D60 produces jaggies.
    > Your SD9 images make cat hairs look like a string of beads.
    >
    > You claim that dpreview is using an early prototype ("beta firmware") for
    > their
    > tests, and yet your real-world samples suck donkey.
    >
    > Can you explain why just about everyone who has seen our comparison photos
    > thinks that the D60 images are superior?
    >
    > Is everyone else delusional or is it just you?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >

    Anni,
    Like I said before, George gives a new definition to the term "the Mind's
    Eye"!
    LOL!!!


    _______________________________________________________________________________
    Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
    <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
     
    George Kerby, Nov 16, 2003
    #7
  8. Annika1980

    Annika1980 Guest

    >From: "George Preddy"

    >> The problem with your arguments is that they are in opposition to the

    >examples
    >> you have shown.
    >>
    >> You say the SD9 has lower noise.
    >> Yet your photos have higher noise levels.

    >
    >Not even close, the D60 pic is a real mess. The rest of your post is
    >similar trolling.


    You're calling ME a troll?
    You've been proven to be either delusional, an idiot, or simply a troll.
    I'll let you choose.

    One thing is certain .... the Totally Digital D60 kicks the Sigma's
    poorly-designed butt!
     
    Annika1980, Nov 16, 2003
    #8
  9. "Annika1980" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >From: "George Preddy"

    >
    > >> The problem with your arguments is that they are in opposition to the

    > >examples
    > >> you have shown.
    > >>
    > >> You say the SD9 has lower noise.
    > >> Yet your photos have higher noise levels.

    > >
    > >Not even close, the D60 pic is a real mess. The rest of your post is
    > >similar trolling.

    >
    > You're calling ME a troll?
    > You've been proven to be either delusional, an idiot, or simply a troll.
    > I'll let you choose.
    >
    > One thing is certain .... the Totally Digital D60 kicks the Sigma's
    > poorly-designed butt!
     
    George Preddy, Nov 16, 2003
    #9
  10. Annika1980

    Bill M Guest

    On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:33:23 +0900, "George Preddy"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Annika1980" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> >From: "George Preddy"

    >>
    >> >http://www.pbase.com/image/23330194/original
    >> >
    >> >That's called a very, very blurry sensor. The 6MP Canons are extremely
    >> >noisey cameras compared to the SD-9, you can see controlled comparisons

    >in
    >> >the link below.

    >>
    >> The problem with your arguments is that they are in opposition to the

    >examples
    >> you have shown.
    >>
    >> You say the SD9 has lower noise.
    >> Yet your photos have higher noise levels.

    >
    >Not even close, the D60 pic is a real mess. The rest of your post is
    >similar trolling.
    >

    OMG...bad enough all the wild ass claims you toss about, now you have
    the nerve to call someone a troll because they don't see it your way
    (which, by the way includes 99% involved in these threads)? The rest
    are right...you're a looney tune, go take your meds, you're coming
    unglued foveon boy.
     
    Bill M, Nov 16, 2003
    #10
  11. "Bill M" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:33:23 +0900, "George Preddy"
    > <> wrote:
    > >Not even close, the D60 pic is a real mess. The rest of your post is
    > >similar trolling.
    > >

    > OMG...bad enough all the wild ass claims you toss about, now you have
    > the nerve to call someone a troll because they don't see it your way
    > (which, by the way includes 99% involved in these threads


    99% refuse to believe Bayer interpolates too.
     
    George Preddy, Nov 16, 2003
    #11
  12. Annika1980

    Bill M Guest

    On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:18:09 +0900, "George Preddy"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Bill M" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:33:23 +0900, "George Preddy"
    >> <> wrote:
    >> >Not even close, the D60 pic is a real mess. The rest of your post is
    >> >similar trolling.
    >> >

    >> OMG...bad enough all the wild ass claims you toss about, now you have
    >> the nerve to call someone a troll because they don't see it your way
    >> (which, by the way includes 99% involved in these threads

    >
    >99% refuse to believe Bayer interpolates too.
    >

    God your full of it.,.nobody here has claimed Bayer doesn't
    interpolate color...typical of you tho, ignore facts and make up your
    own
     
    Bill M, Nov 16, 2003
    #12
  13. Annika1980

    Guest

    In message <bp8ggk$cgf$>,
    "George Preddy" <> wrote:

    ><> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> In message <bp80qr$5bj$>,
    >> "George Preddy" <> wrote:


    >> >As you can see, Canon isn't competive with SD-9 noise levels even using
    >> >the
    >> >beta firmware dpreview used to generate their review...


    >> >http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmasd9/page15.asp


    >> Where's the 10D or 300D review? The D60 is three-year-old technology.


    >Read the text, dpreview (a Canon commercial) says the D60 outperforms the
    >10D, which is why it was used (against a beta firmware SD-9).


    Well, then, they're dead wrong. You can not see any noise in a shot of
    a way-out-of-focus and intentionally camera-shake-blurred grey card at
    ISO 100 on the 10D. At ISO 400, it's just barely visible.

    The noise they show for the D60 looks like it's been blurred.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
     
    , Nov 17, 2003
    #13
  14. Annika1980

    Guest

    In message <bp8tsd$nj1$>,
    "George Preddy" <> wrote:

    >"Bill M" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:33:23 +0900, "George Preddy"
    >> <> wrote:
    >> >Not even close, the D60 pic is a real mess. The rest of your post is
    >> >similar trolling.
    >> >

    >> OMG...bad enough all the wild ass claims you toss about, now you have
    >> the nerve to call someone a troll because they don't see it your way
    >> (which, by the way includes 99% involved in these threads

    >
    >99% refuse to believe Bayer interpolates too.


    Hardly.

    Bayer interpolates the remaining two RGB values for the one it actually
    measures at each pixel for each output pixel. It does not interpolate
    any pixels out of thin air. In fuji super CCD implementations, 50% of
    the pixels are interpolated out of nowhere.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
     
    , Nov 17, 2003
    #14
  15. <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In message <bp8ggk$cgf$>,
    > "George Preddy" <> wrote:
    > >Read the text, dpreview (a Canon commercial) says the D60 outperforms the
    > >10D, which is why it was used (against a beta firmware SD-9).

    >
    > Well, then, they're dead wrong. You can not see any noise in a shot of
    > a way-out-of-focus and intentionally camera-shake-blurred grey card at
    > ISO 100 on the 10D. At ISO 400, it's just barely visible.
    >
    > The noise they show for the D60 looks like it's been blurred.


    They are about the same, both go multi-colored speckled at ISO 400:
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page18.asp
     
    George Preddy, Nov 17, 2003
    #15
  16. "Bill M" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:18:09 +0900, "George Preddy"
    > <> wrote:


    > >99% refuse to believe Bayer interpolates too.
    > >

    > God your full of it.,.nobody here has claimed Bayer doesn't
    > interpolate color...


    Keep going... it interpolates color, and... it interpolates
    spatially--scales interpolated-output images up 4:1 over the amount of RGB
    information it actually gathers (at a pitiful 25% known color data per
    output pixel). Seems like you are at or below below the 99th percentile.

    > typical of you tho, ignore facts and make up your
    > own
     
    George Preddy, Nov 17, 2003
    #16
  17. <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In message <bp8tsd$nj1$>,
    > "George Preddy" <> wrote:


    > >99% refuse to believe Bayer interpolates too.

    >
    > Hardly.
    >
    > Bayer interpolates the remaining two RGB values for the one it actually
    > measures at each pixel for each output pixel. It does not interpolate
    > any pixels out of thin air. In fuji super CCD implementations, 50% of
    > the pixels are interpolated out of nowhere.


    Not really, SCCD oversamples during the coord transform otherwise the
    transform is too lossy, so it ends up outputing 2 interpolated pixels for
    every 1/3rd color sensor that has complimentary primary information (13%
    color data per output pixel), Bayer normally interpolates to 1 ouput pixel
    for every 1/3rd color sensor with complimentary primary information (25%
    per), Foveon normally outputs 1 pixel for every set of three 1/3rd sensors
    (100% per), and all have complimentary primarys.
     
    George Preddy, Nov 17, 2003
    #17
  18. Annika1980

    Guest Guest

    99% of people are clever than you.
    99% of people are saner than you.
    99% of people think you're an idiot.



    "George Preddy" <> wrote in message
    news:bp8tsd$nj1$...
    >
    > "Bill M" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:33:23 +0900, "George Preddy"
    > > <> wrote:
    > > >Not even close, the D60 pic is a real mess. The rest of your post is
    > > >similar trolling.
    > > >

    > > OMG...bad enough all the wild ass claims you toss about, now you have
    > > the nerve to call someone a troll because they don't see it your way
    > > (which, by the way includes 99% involved in these threads

    >
    > 99% refuse to believe Bayer interpolates too.
    >
    >
     
    Guest, Nov 17, 2003
    #18
  19. <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In message <bp8ggk$cgf$>,
    > "George Preddy" <> wrote:


    > The noise they show for the D60 looks like it's been blurred.


    That's Canon's NR. "NR" meaning, spread under analysis programs' detection
    gate, not actually reduced.
     
    George Preddy, Nov 17, 2003
    #19
  20. Annika1980

    Bill M Guest

    On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:39:20 +0900, "George Preddy"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Bill M" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:18:09 +0900, "George Preddy"
    >> <> wrote:

    >
    >> >99% refuse to believe Bayer interpolates too.
    >> >

    >> God your full of it.,.nobody here has claimed Bayer doesn't
    >> interpolate color...

    >
    >Keep going... it interpolates color, and... it interpolates
    >spatially--scales interpolated-output images up 4:1 over the amount of RGB
    >information it actually gathers (at a pitiful 25% known color data per
    >output pixel). Seems like you are at or below below the 99th percentile.
    >


    you best go read up on how bayer works you buffon....tho I know you
    won't....you prefer to dwell in marketing hype from sigma/fovean and
    remain a ignorant ass....

    in other words, you're wrong AFREAKINGAIN....

    >> typical of you tho, ignore facts and make up your
    >> own

    >
     
    Bill M, Nov 17, 2003
    #20
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