SCSI Scanner not being detected

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Ernie Werbel, Mar 25, 2007.

  1. Ernie Werbel

    Ernie Werbel Guest

    Hi all,

    I bought an HP ScanJet IIcx SCSI scanner. I installed the PCI card and
    connected the scanner. I set the address of the scanner to zero with no
    other devices (this is my first time working with SCSI by the way). So I
    booted the machine and the card BIOS goes through addresses 0 up to 7 not
    finding anything. But the scanner also came with a 3.5" diskette, so I
    started Windows and ran the setup program. I rebooted with the scanner on
    as it said to do but it is saying there is no scanner connected. I have
    checked the cables and am pretty sure they're good. Any ideas? Thanksin
    advance for any help.

    Ernie
     
    Ernie Werbel, Mar 25, 2007
    #1
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  2. On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 03:33:36 +0000, Ernie Werbel wrote:

    > I bought an HP ScanJet IIcx SCSI scanner. I installed the PCI card and
    > connected the scanner. I set the address of the scanner to zero with no
    > other devices (this is my first time working with SCSI by the way). So I
    > booted the machine and the card BIOS goes through addresses 0 up to 7 not
    > finding anything. But the scanner also came with a 3.5" diskette, so I
    > started Windows and ran the setup program. I rebooted with the scanner on
    > as it said to do but it is saying there is no scanner connected. I have
    > checked the cables and am pretty sure they're good. Any ideas? Thanksin
    > advance for any help.


    Quick intro to SCSI: You can have multiple SCSI busses in a computer
    system, and they can each have 8 devices on them (numbered 0 through 7).
    Now, as I recall, the host adapter uses address number 0 on the bus,
    though I could be wrong on this point; I seem to recall, though, that
    effectively you can only have 7 SCSI devices on a bus.

    Try increasing the SCSI ID of your scanner to 1 and see what happens. If
    that doesn't do anything, I would try a different cable to see if it is
    that. Always check the things that are low in cost or free before looking
    for larger problems. :)

    Anyway, those are the two things I would check right off--try adjusting
    the SCSI ID first, and if that doesn't work, try swapping out the cables
    for a pair that are known to be good, if you can borrow some that would be
    better. Of course, though, finding those cables today can itself be a bit
    of a PITA.

    -- Mike
     
    Michael B. Trausch, Mar 25, 2007
    #2
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  3. Ernie Werbel

    Ernie Werbel Guest

    Thank you, Michael, for your assistance. I set the address to 1 as you
    suggested and am still having the same problem. I also researched a bit on
    the net since my posting and have come across something called a
    termination. I don't recall this nor do I see anything that looks like one,
    so I am thinking this could be my problem. Is a termination required to run
    an SCSI device? There is a female parallel port on back of the scanner next
    to the larger, SCSI connector... is that port used for the termination?

    "Michael B. Trausch" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 03:33:36 +0000, Ernie Werbel wrote:
    >
    >> I bought an HP ScanJet IIcx SCSI scanner. I installed the PCI card and
    >> connected the scanner. I set the address of the scanner to zero with no
    >> other devices (this is my first time working with SCSI by the way). So I
    >> booted the machine and the card BIOS goes through addresses 0 up to 7 not
    >> finding anything. But the scanner also came with a 3.5" diskette, so I
    >> started Windows and ran the setup program. I rebooted with the scanner
    >> on
    >> as it said to do but it is saying there is no scanner connected. I have
    >> checked the cables and am pretty sure they're good. Any ideas? Thanksin
    >> advance for any help.

    >
    > Quick intro to SCSI: You can have multiple SCSI busses in a computer
    > system, and they can each have 8 devices on them (numbered 0 through 7).
    > Now, as I recall, the host adapter uses address number 0 on the bus,
    > though I could be wrong on this point; I seem to recall, though, that
    > effectively you can only have 7 SCSI devices on a bus.
    >
    > Try increasing the SCSI ID of your scanner to 1 and see what happens. If
    > that doesn't do anything, I would try a different cable to see if it is
    > that. Always check the things that are low in cost or free before looking
    > for larger problems. :)
    >
    > Anyway, those are the two things I would check right off--try adjusting
    > the SCSI ID first, and if that doesn't work, try swapping out the cables
    > for a pair that are known to be good, if you can borrow some that would be
    > better. Of course, though, finding those cables today can itself be a bit
    > of a PITA.
    >
    > -- Mike
     
    Ernie Werbel, Mar 25, 2007
    #3
  4. Ernie Werbel

    pen Guest

    "Ernie Werbel" <> wrote in message
    news:94DNh.3382$5E3.871@trndny01...
    > Thank you, Michael, for your assistance. I set the address to 1 as
    > you suggested and am still having the same problem. I also
    > researched a bit on the net since my posting and have come across
    > something called a termination. I don't recall this nor do I see
    > anything that looks like one, so I am thinking this could be my
    > problem. Is a termination required to run an SCSI device? There is
    > a female parallel port on back of the scanner next to the larger,
    > SCSI connector... is that port used for the termination?
    >
    > "Michael B. Trausch" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 03:33:36 +0000, Ernie Werbel wrote:
    >>
    >>> I bought an HP ScanJet IIcx SCSI scanner. I installed the PCI
    >>> card and
    >>> connected the scanner. I set the address of the scanner to zero
    >>> with no
    >>> other devices (this is my first time working with SCSI by the
    >>> way). So I
    >>> booted the machine and the card BIOS goes through addresses 0 up
    >>> to 7 not
    >>> finding anything. But the scanner also came with a 3.5" diskette,
    >>> so I
    >>> started Windows and ran the setup program. I rebooted with the
    >>> scanner on
    >>> as it said to do but it is saying there is no scanner connected.
    >>> I have
    >>> checked the cables and am pretty sure they're good. Any ideas?
    >>> Thanksin
    >>> advance for any help.

    >>
    >> Quick intro to SCSI: You can have multiple SCSI busses in a
    >> computer
    >> system, and they can each have 8 devices on them (numbered 0
    >> through 7).
    >> Now, as I recall, the host adapter uses address number 0 on the
    >> bus,
    >> though I could be wrong on this point; I seem to recall, though,
    >> that
    >> effectively you can only have 7 SCSI devices on a bus.
    >>
    >> Try increasing the SCSI ID of your scanner to 1 and see what
    >> happens. If
    >> that doesn't do anything, I would try a different cable to see if
    >> it is
    >> that. Always check the things that are low in cost or free before
    >> looking
    >> for larger problems. :)
    >>
    >> Anyway, those are the two things I would check right off--try
    >> adjusting
    >> the SCSI ID first, and if that doesn't work, try swapping out the
    >> cables
    >> for a pair that are known to be good, if you can borrow some that
    >> would be
    >> better. Of course, though, finding those cables today can itself
    >> be a bit
    >> of a PITA.
    >>
    >> -- Mike

    >
    >


    Try these HP sites for new drivers instructions etc. This scanner
    dates from
    windows 3.1 so the parallel connector was probably meant as a
    printer pass through when the scanner was driven by a parallel port.
    http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareList?os=228&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=60107
    http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/setupCategory?lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=60107
     
    pen, Mar 26, 2007
    #4
  5. Ernie Werbel

    Ernie Werbel Guest

    I was digging through another one of the packages and lo and behold, I came
    across the manual for the HP ScanJet IIcx! It appears that I have set it up
    corectly, but they reference the need for a pass-through terminator on the
    parallel port... guess that's what it was after all... hopefully. Hopefully
    if I have time this week I can stop by a computer store and see if they have
    one. I am told CompUSA is closing a bunch of stores in my area...

    Ernie




    Ernie Werbel wrote in message ...
    >Hi all,
    >
    >I bought an HP ScanJet IIcx SCSI scanner. I installed the PCI card and
    >connected the scanner. I set the address of the scanner to zero with no
    >other devices (this is my first time working with SCSI by the way). So I
    >booted the machine and the card BIOS goes through addresses 0 up to 7 not
    >finding anything. But the scanner also came with a 3.5" diskette, so I
    >started Windows and ran the setup program. I rebooted with the scanner on
    >as it said to do but it is saying there is no scanner connected. I have
    >checked the cables and am pretty sure they're good. Any ideas? Thanksin
    >advance for any help.
    >
    >Ernie
    >
    >
     
    Ernie Werbel, Mar 26, 2007
    #5
  6. Ernie Werbel

    Chris Guest

    "Ernie Werbel" <> wrote in message
    news:k4mNh.16905$FD1.11559@trnddc05...
    > Hi all,
    >
    > I bought an HP ScanJet IIcx SCSI scanner. I installed the PCI card and
    > connected the scanner. I set the address of the scanner to zero with no
    > other devices (this is my first time working with SCSI by the way). So I
    > booted the machine and the card BIOS goes through addresses 0 up to 7 not
    > finding anything. But the scanner also came with a 3.5" diskette, so I
    > started Windows and ran the setup program. I rebooted with the scanner on
    > as it said to do but it is saying there is no scanner connected. I have
    > checked the cables and am pretty sure they're good. Any ideas? Thanksin
    > advance for any help.
    >
    > Ernie
    >


    Ernie,
    I seem to remember that ID 7 is the highest priority ID for a SCSI bus so 7
    would be the interface card itself ( not 100% sure of that since it's been
    many years the last time I used SCSI). Ether way an ID from 1 to 6 should
    work fine.
    You mentioned a terminator. That is a device that basically stops the signal
    from continuing on forever, it terminates the signal. It is required for
    proper operation. Some devices have a terminator built in and others require
    you to place one on the last device in the SCSI chain. I don't know if the
    HP ScanJet IIcx has one built in.
    With out a terminator on or built in to the last device, no devices will be
    found, the signal will never bounce back to the card and let it know what
    devices are connected to it.
    Think of it like the radar gun that cops use. If there is nothing to bounce
    the signal off of then the gun will not read any speed. Once an object
    (terminator) reflects the signal then the radar gun can judge the speed.
    If you do need to get a terminator then make sure it is the correct one for
    the device that you have. There are many types of SCSI and a terminator for
    Ultra 2, for example, will not work for Wide SCSI and so on. The device
    needs to be the same type of SCSI as the card and so too does the
    terminator.
     
    Chris, Mar 26, 2007
    #6
  7. Ernie Werbel

    PeeCee Guest

    "Chris" <> wrote in message
    news:fmHNh.76296$...
    >
    > "Ernie Werbel" <> wrote in message
    > news:k4mNh.16905$FD1.11559@trnddc05...
    >> Hi all,
    >>
    >> I bought an HP ScanJet IIcx SCSI scanner. I installed the PCI card and
    >> connected the scanner. I set the address of the scanner to zero with no
    >> other devices (this is my first time working with SCSI by the way). So I
    >> booted the machine and the card BIOS goes through addresses 0 up to 7 not
    >> finding anything. But the scanner also came with a 3.5" diskette, so I
    >> started Windows and ran the setup program. I rebooted with the scanner
    >> on as it said to do but it is saying there is no scanner connected. I
    >> have checked the cables and am pretty sure they're good. Any ideas?
    >> Thanksin advance for any help.
    >>
    >> Ernie
    >>

    >
    > Ernie,
    > I seem to remember that ID 7 is the highest priority ID for a SCSI bus so
    > 7 would be the interface card itself ( not 100% sure of that since it's
    > been many years the last time I used SCSI). Ether way an ID from 1 to 6
    > should work fine.
    > You mentioned a terminator. That is a device that basically stops the
    > signal from continuing on forever, it terminates the signal. It is
    > required for proper operation. Some devices have a terminator built in and
    > others require you to place one on the last device in the SCSI chain. I
    > don't know if the HP ScanJet IIcx has one built in.
    > With out a terminator on or built in to the last device, no devices will
    > be found, the signal will never bounce back to the card and let it know
    > what devices are connected to it.
    > Think of it like the radar gun that cops use. If there is nothing to
    > bounce the signal off of then the gun will not read any speed. Once an
    > object (terminator) reflects the signal then the radar gun can judge the
    > speed.
    > If you do need to get a terminator then make sure it is the correct one
    > for the device that you have. There are many types of SCSI and a
    > terminator for Ultra 2, for example, will not work for Wide SCSI and so
    > on. The device needs to be the same type of SCSI as the card and so too
    > does the terminator.
    >



    Er with respect not correct.

    A terminator on a SCSI bus does not stop the signal and does not introduce
    'bounce' to the signal.
    In fact it does just the opposite, so your Radar Gun analogy is just plain
    'wrong'.

    A Terminator is essentially a resistor connected between each signal line
    and ground.

    Placing a Terminator at the end of the SCSI bus loads the signal lines to
    present a resistive impedance to devices attached to the bus.
    An unterminated SCSI bus will reflect the signals back down the line so the
    device gets confused by the returned signal bouncing back and mixing with
    the original signal.

    Have a read through 'Termination Basics" on this page
    http://www.scsita.org/aboutscsi/SCSI_Termination_Tutorial.html for another
    explanation.
    This Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_matching has a deeper
    explanation of Impedance matching.

    Best
    Paul.
     
    PeeCee, Mar 26, 2007
    #7
  8. Ernie Werbel

    PeeCee Guest

    "Ernie Werbel" <> wrote in message
    news:k4mNh.16905$FD1.11559@trnddc05...
    > Hi all,
    >
    > I bought an HP ScanJet IIcx SCSI scanner. I installed the PCI card and
    > connected the scanner. I set the address of the scanner to zero with no
    > other devices (this is my first time working with SCSI by the way). So I
    > booted the machine and the card BIOS goes through addresses 0 up to 7 not
    > finding anything. But the scanner also came with a 3.5" diskette, so I
    > started Windows and ran the setup program. I rebooted with the scanner on
    > as it said to do but it is saying there is no scanner connected. I have
    > checked the cables and am pretty sure they're good. Any ideas? Thanksin
    > advance for any help.
    >
    > Ernie



    Ernie

    The IIcx is quite an old scanner (400 x 400 dpi) now so the software
    (drivers and apps) will reflect that.
    As someone else pointed out Windows "3.1"

    This page
    http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=bps05304&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=es&product=57847
    gives some options on using this and other old HP scanners with XP.

    One note of caution from that page is "For scanners that require a SCSI
    connection, verify that the SCSI card is supported in Windows XP."
    What version of Windows are you using?
    Therein I feel lies the crux of your problems i.e. to see the scanner first
    your OS must see the SCSI card.
    If the SCSI card is the one that came with the scanner have a look on the
    card for the chipset maker and go to their website to find drivers for your
    version of Windows.
    Have a look in Control Panel/System/Device Manager and see if your SCSI card
    is listed, and listed with out a cross or exclamation mark beside it.

    Best
    Paul.
     
    PeeCee, Mar 26, 2007
    #8
  9. Ernie Werbel

    Chris Guest

    > Er with respect not correct.
    >
    > A terminator on a SCSI bus does not stop the signal and does not introduce
    > 'bounce' to the signal.
    > In fact it does just the opposite, so your Radar Gun analogy is just plain
    > 'wrong'.
    >
    > A Terminator is essentially a resistor connected between each signal line
    > and ground.
    >
    > Placing a Terminator at the end of the SCSI bus loads the signal lines to
    > present a resistive impedance to devices attached to the bus.
    > An unterminated SCSI bus will reflect the signals back down the line so
    > the device gets confused by the returned signal bouncing back and mixing
    > with the original signal.
    >
    > Have a read through 'Termination Basics" on this page
    > http://www.scsita.org/aboutscsi/SCSI_Termination_Tutorial.html for another
    > explanation.
    > This Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_matching has a deeper
    > explanation of Impedance matching.
    >
    > Best
    > Paul.
    >
    >
    >


    Thank you for correcting me on that.
    I'm sorry for giving the bad information in the first place, that's how it
    was explained to me many years ago.
    I take no offence to being corrected when I am wrong.
     
    Chris, Mar 28, 2007
    #9
  10. Ernie Werbel

    PeeCee Guest

    "Chris" <> wrote in message
    news:AEmOh.98237$...
    >> Er with respect not correct.
    >>
    >> A terminator on a SCSI bus does not stop the signal and does not
    >> introduce 'bounce' to the signal.
    >> In fact it does just the opposite, so your Radar Gun analogy is just
    >> plain 'wrong'.
    >>
    >> A Terminator is essentially a resistor connected between each signal line
    >> and ground.
    >>
    >> Placing a Terminator at the end of the SCSI bus loads the signal lines to
    >> present a resistive impedance to devices attached to the bus.
    >> An unterminated SCSI bus will reflect the signals back down the line so
    >> the device gets confused by the returned signal bouncing back and mixing
    >> with the original signal.
    >>
    >> Have a read through 'Termination Basics" on this page
    >> http://www.scsita.org/aboutscsi/SCSI_Termination_Tutorial.html for
    >> another explanation.
    >> This Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_matching has a deeper
    >> explanation of Impedance matching.
    >>
    >> Best
    >> Paul.
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Thank you for correcting me on that.
    > I'm sorry for giving the bad information in the first place, that's how it
    > was explained to me many years ago.
    > I take no offence to being corrected when I am wrong.


    Chris

    And no offence intended, pleased to help.

    Best
    Paul.
     
    PeeCee, Mar 28, 2007
    #10
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