Schools told to wipe Microsoft Office off Mac computers

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by peterwn, May 28, 2007.

  1. peterwn

    peterwn Guest

    See:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10442388&ref=rss

    Microsoft wants the Education Ministry to pay for Microsoft licences for
    MS Office on all Macs in schools although only half of them have the
    suite loaded. Ministry said 'nix' and has told schools to delete
    Microsoft Office from these machines.

    It is a great pity that our kids have to suffer because elephants choose
    to rumble.

    However the good news is that Open Office is available for Mac OS X and
    can be downloaded free or a CD (multi platform version) can be purchased
    for $10 mail order (one CD will do a whole school and can be copied
    legally - no per-seat licencing - it can even be lent to the kids to
    install at home).
     
    peterwn, May 28, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. peterwn

    peterwn Guest

    Katipo wrote:

    >
    > Here was me thinking that even the greedy Microsoft wouldn't have the
    > audacity to demand licence fees for software that computers don't have. Is
    > there no level those guys won't stoop to?
    >
    > OpenOffice is the obvious solution for the affected schools. Not only will
    > the kids be able to carry on with their normal work, but they will also get
    > another valuable lesson - that you don't need to pay exorbitant licensing
    > fees to get quality software!
    >

    Don't hold your breath. The NZ chief of Microsoft will probably be
    seeing the Minister of Education today and there will be a
    'confidential' settlement with a promise to see if the Government can in
    effect pass some intellectual property rights from the 'commons' enjoyed
    by all Kiwis to overseas corporations.
     
    peterwn, May 28, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. peterwn

    Sue Bilstein Guest

    On Tue, 29 May 2007 09:06:12 +1200, peterwn <>
    wrote:
    >Katipo wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Here was me thinking that even the greedy Microsoft wouldn't have the
    >> audacity to demand licence fees for software that computers don't have. Is
    >> there no level those guys won't stoop to?
    >>
    >> OpenOffice is the obvious solution for the affected schools. Not only will
    >> the kids be able to carry on with their normal work, but they will also get
    >> another valuable lesson - that you don't need to pay exorbitant licensing
    >> fees to get quality software!
    >>

    >Don't hold your breath. The NZ chief of Microsoft will probably be
    >seeing the Minister of Education today and there will be a
    >'confidential' settlement with a promise to see if the Government can in
    >effect


    Er ...

    >pass some intellectual property rights from the 'commons' enjoyed
    >by all Kiwis to overseas corporations.



    .... what do you mean by that?

    Quid pro quo, Microsoft provides MS Office to schools in return for
    copyright on schoolkids' artworks?
     
    Sue Bilstein, May 28, 2007
    #3
  4. On Tue, 29 May 2007 07:38:03 +1200, peterwn <>
    wrote:

    > See:
    >
    > http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10442388&ref=rss
    >
    > Microsoft wants the Education Ministry to pay for Microsoft licences for
    > MS Office on all Macs in schools although only half of them have the
    > suite loaded. Ministry said 'nix' and has told schools to delete
    > Microsoft Office from these machines.
    >
    > It is a great pity that our kids have to suffer because elephants choose
    > to rumble.
    >
    > However the good news is that Open Office is available for Mac OS X and
    > can be downloaded free or a CD (multi platform version) can be purchased
    > for $10 mail order (one CD will do a whole school and can be copied
    > legally - no per-seat licencing - it can even be lent to the kids to
    > install at home).


    Yes, and NeoOffice is also available free, and is OpenOffice with the Mac
    GUI.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
     
    Cosmik Debris, May 28, 2007
    #4
  5. peterwn

    peterwn Guest

    Sue Bilstein wrote:
    > On Tue, 29 May 2007 09:06:12 +1200, peterwn <>
    > wrote:
    >> Katipo wrote:
    >>
    >>> Here was me thinking that even the greedy Microsoft wouldn't have the
    >>> audacity to demand licence fees for software that computers don't have. Is
    >>> there no level those guys won't stoop to?
    >>>
    >>> OpenOffice is the obvious solution for the affected schools. Not only will
    >>> the kids be able to carry on with their normal work, but they will also get
    >>> another valuable lesson - that you don't need to pay exorbitant licensing
    >>> fees to get quality software!
    >>>

    >> Don't hold your breath. The NZ chief of Microsoft will probably be
    >> seeing the Minister of Education today and there will be a
    >> 'confidential' settlement with a promise to see if the Government can in
    >> effect

    >
    > Er ...
    >
    >> pass some intellectual property rights from the 'commons' enjoyed
    >> by all Kiwis to overseas corporations.

    >
    >
    > ... what do you mean by that?
    >


    I will give you hopefully) a very simple example. Disney had a
    copyright on Micky Mouse for 50 years. Micky Mouse was about to go out
    of copyright. So Disney successfully persuaded US Congress (campaign
    contributions) to extend the copyright to 75 years. This effectively
    means there is a transfer of wealth from the general public to an
    individual corporation which the corporation has not earned. No one can
    say that at the time Micky Mouse was created that the creation was so
    momentous as to justify copyright for a longer period - Walt Disney
    would have been quite delighted if Micky had lasted five years then
    fizzed. This lobbying then continues to coerce the US Administration to
    try and get other nations to 'harmonise' their legislation accordingly.
    Now, limited copyright periods is a reasonable compromise between
    protecting creaters' rights and avoiding 'works' being 'locked up'
    indefinitely (since a creator is not obliged to make his or works
    available to anyone while thy are in copyright). These public policy
    principles were recognised by London judges over 200 years ago.

    To give another example. NZ could come under pressure to make patents
    easier to obtain, extend patents to currently unpatentable areas (eg
    software) and enact draconian sanctions against alleged infringers (eg
    automatic injunctions). With such a regime a local startup company
    could be forced out of business for allegedly infringing a patent which
    had no merit or was obtained by fraud (usual problems are triviality and
    prior art, the latter meaning that the idea was not a new one). Such
    patents would have a value out of all proportion to the creative work
    put into them. Hence such a regime transfers valuable property rights
    from New Zealand to overseas interests.

    Australia got caught with this with its free trade agreement with USA.
    John Howard's Government effectively gave away property rights
    (including parts of the 'commons') belonging to the Australian people
    which were worth billions of dollars. The law drafting people have
    recognised the 'traps' and are drafting the laws as tight as possible to
    salvage something. What is extremely galling with all this, is that USA
    is trying to insist that other nations harmonise laws to USA laws when
    the latter were enacted via undemocratic processes (excessive lobbying
    coupled with campaign contributions).
     
    peterwn, May 28, 2007
    #5
  6. peterwn

    impossible Guest

    "peterwn" <> wrote in message
    news:465b4fad$...
    > Sue Bilstein wrote:
    >> On Tue, 29 May 2007 09:06:12 +1200, peterwn
    >> <>
    >> wrote:
    >>> Katipo wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Here was me thinking that even the greedy Microsoft wouldn't have
    >>>> the audacity to demand licence fees for software that computers
    >>>> don't have. Is there no level those guys won't stoop to?
    >>>>
    >>>> OpenOffice is the obvious solution for the affected schools. Not
    >>>> only will the kids be able to carry on with their normal work,
    >>>> but they will also get another valuable lesson - that you don't
    >>>> need to pay exorbitant licensing fees to get quality software!
    >>>>
    >>> Don't hold your breath. The NZ chief of Microsoft will probably
    >>> be seeing the Minister of Education today and there will be a
    >>> 'confidential' settlement with a promise to see if the Government
    >>> can in effect

    >>
    >> Er ...
    >>
    >>> pass some intellectual property rights from the 'commons' enjoyed
    >>> by all Kiwis to overseas corporations.

    >>
    >>
    >> ... what do you mean by that?

    >
    > I will give you hopefully) a very simple example. Disney had a
    > copyright on Micky Mouse for 50 years. Micky Mouse was about to go
    > out of copyright. So Disney successfully persuaded US Congress
    > (campaign contributions) to extend the copyright to 75 years. This
    > effectively means there is a transfer of wealth from the general
    > public to an individual corporation which the corporation has not
    > earned. No one can say that at the time Micky Mouse was created
    > that the creation was so momentous as to justify copyright for a
    > longer period - Walt Disney would have been quite delighted if Micky
    > had lasted five years then fizzed. This lobbying then continues to
    > coerce the US Administration to try and get other nations to
    > 'harmonise' their legislation accordingly. Now, limited copyright
    > periods is a reasonable compromise between protecting creaters'
    > rights and avoiding 'works' being 'locked up' indefinitely (since a
    > creator is not obliged to make his or works available to anyone
    > while thy are in copyright). These public policy principles were
    > recognised by London judges over 200 years ago.
    >
    > To give another example. NZ could come under pressure to make
    > patents easier to obtain, extend patents to currently unpatentable
    > areas (eg software) and enact draconian sanctions against alleged
    > infringers (eg automatic injunctions). With such a regime a local
    > startup company could be forced out of business for allegedly
    > infringing a patent which had no merit or was obtained by fraud
    > (usual problems are triviality and prior art, the latter meaning
    > that the idea was not a new one). Such patents would have a value
    > out of all proportion to the creative work put into them. Hence
    > such a regime transfers valuable property rights from New Zealand to
    > overseas interests.
    >
    > Australia got caught with this with its free trade agreement with
    > USA. John Howard's Government effectively gave away property rights
    > (including parts of the 'commons') belonging to the Australian
    > people which were worth billions of dollars. The law drafting
    > people have recognised the 'traps' and are drafting the laws as
    > tight as possible to salvage something. What is extremely galling
    > with all this, is that USA is trying to insist that other nations
    > harmonise laws to USA laws when the latter were enacted via
    > undemocratic processes (excessive lobbying coupled with campaign
    > contributions).


    Nice "simple example". But what does any of this have to do with
    getting office software on school computers? It's money -- not
    intellectual property -- that schools are going to end up parting
    with. Either they pay that money to Microsoft for software licenses,
    or they pay it to some service outfit to support the "free"
    alternatives.
     
    impossible, May 29, 2007
    #6
  7. peterwn

    peterwn Guest

    impossible wrote:
    >
    >>>
    >>> ... what do you mean by that?


    >
    > Nice "simple example". But what does any of this have to do with
    > getting office software on school computers?


    Nothing. I was merely answering Sue's question about intellectual property.

    > It's money -- not
    > intellectual property -- that schools are going to end up parting
    > with. Either they pay that money to Microsoft for software licenses,
    > or they pay it to some service outfit to support the "free"
    > alternatives.
    >


    And I agree that according to TCO studies undertaken by consultants
    and the like funded or otherwise supported by Microsoft, the 'total
    cost of ownership' of Linux is greater than for Windows - it is all
    a matter of the ingredients - just like baking a cake.

    Having said that, I think that it is an insult to the average school
    computer technician, pupil or teacher to suggest that they need costly
    professional assistance to obtain and load up OpenOffice on to a Mac
    computer.
     
    peterwn, May 29, 2007
    #7
  8. peterwn

    Sue Bilstein Guest

    On Tue, 29 May 2007 12:06:03 +1200, peterwn <>
    wrote:
    >impossible wrote:
    >>
    >>>>
    >>>> ... what do you mean by that?

    >
    >>
    >> Nice "simple example". But what does any of this have to do with
    >> getting office software on school computers?

    >
    >Nothing. I was merely answering Sue's question about intellectual property.


    However, I was specifically asking about what you meant in relation to
    software for schools.
    -----
    Er ...

    >pass some intellectual property rights from the 'commons' enjoyed
    >by all Kiwis to overseas corporations.



    .... what do you mean by that?

    Quid pro quo, Microsoft provides MS Office to schools in return for
    copyright on schoolkids' artworks?
    ----


    >
    >> It's money -- not
    >> intellectual property -- that schools are going to end up parting
    >> with. Either they pay that money to Microsoft for software licenses,
    >> or they pay it to some service outfit to support the "free"
    >> alternatives.
    >>

    >
    >And I agree that according to TCO studies undertaken by consultants
    >and the like funded or otherwise supported by Microsoft, the 'total
    >cost of ownership' of Linux is greater than for Windows - it is all
    >a matter of the ingredients - just like baking a cake.
    >
    >Having said that, I think that it is an insult to the average school
    >computer technician, pupil or teacher to suggest that they need costly
    >professional assistance to obtain and load up OpenOffice on to a Mac
    >computer.
     
    Sue Bilstein, May 29, 2007
    #8
  9. peterwn

    peterwn Guest

    Sue Bilstein wrote:

    >> impossible wrote:
    >>>>> ... what do you mean by that?
    >>> Nice "simple example". But what does any of this have to do with
    >>> getting office software on school computers?

    >> Nothing. I was merely answering Sue's question about intellectual property.

    >
    > However, I was specifically asking about what you meant in relation to
    > software for schools.
    > -----
    > Er ...


    That is OK. It had occurred to me that Microsoft could concede on this
    one or offer a better deal, but in return may seek some quid pro quo
    which may not necessarily education based. A possibility is a
    legislative tweak involving intellectual property which while appearing
    trivial, effectively transfers significant wealth out of NZ - not the
    Government's wealth, but wealth that belongs to everyone.

    Such a deal can be very tempting if it helps solve an immediate problem
    and does cost money to be met from Government funds.

    This concept is a bit difficult to grasp, but nevertheless is a very
    important concept for those interested in general public affairs.

    >
    >> pass some intellectual property rights from the 'commons' enjoyed
    >> by all Kiwis to overseas corporations.

    >
    >
    > ... what do you mean by that?


    Sorry, this is an abstract but nevertheless important statement.

    Take the patent example. A Kiwi start-up develops a product, gets up
    and running and is doing well. An overseas company comes along and
    demands crippling royalties on the strength of a dubious patent. Faced
    with royalty payments which makes the product not worth producing, or a
    legal fight which is morally winnable but financially disastrous, the NZ
    company reluctantly stops production. Meanwhile the overseas company
    steps in with a similar product which Kiwis have to buy at a much higher
    price.

    >
    > Quid pro quo, Microsoft provides MS Office to schools in return for
    > copyright on schoolkids' artworks?
    > ----
    >

    No, I did not mean this, and in any case the school probably does not
    have full IP rights in pupils' works capable of being assigned - the
    'nemo dat' principle. I was thinking more of potential property rights
    which could be extracted out of the 'commons' and effectively vested in
    someone, even an overseas corporation, by a mere legislative enactment
    or amendment. An extreme example would be air, or a more realistic
    example 'carbon emission rights', but would also include intellectual
    property such as 'out of copyright' works, or by virtue of widening the
    scope of patent laws. I can well imagine a company such as Microsoft
    seeking such extremely valuable property rights in return for offering a
    fantastic 'knock down' price for software for schools.

    Sorry, I did not pick the 'link' between your two comments first time round.
     
    peterwn, May 29, 2007
    #9
  10. peterwn

    sam Guest

    impossible wrote:

    >
    > Nice "simple example". But what does any of this have to do with
    > getting office software on school computers? It's money -- not
    > intellectual property -- that schools are going to end up parting
    > with. Either they pay that money to Microsoft for software licenses,
    > or they pay it to some service outfit to support the "free"
    > alternatives.
    >
    >

    What is this "support" ? LOL
    It consists of Datacom distributing the media and managing the licenses
    The PC stuff is a volume licence key deal with the media kit supplied free.
    From what I can see the Mac media is available for $48.95 plus freight
    and GST, so the media beatup seems a bit ambiguous.
    http://www.dsv.co.nz/moe/MoE_info.html
     
    sam, May 29, 2007
    #10
  11. peterwn

    sam Guest

    peterwn wrote:
    > See:
    >
    > http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10442388&ref=rss
    >
    >
    > Microsoft wants the Education Ministry to pay for Microsoft licences for
    > MS Office on all Macs in schools although only half of them have the
    > suite loaded. Ministry said 'nix' and has told schools to delete
    > Microsoft Office from these machines.
    >
    > It is a great pity that our kids have to suffer because elephants choose
    > to rumble.
    >
    > However the good news is that Open Office is available for Mac OS X and
    > can be downloaded free or a CD (multi platform version) can be purchased
    > for $10 mail order (one CD will do a whole school and can be copied
    > legally - no per-seat licencing - it can even be lent to the kids to
    > install at home).


    Do you know what Microsoft are actually charging for the non-core
    software outside the Windows PC volume licensing agreement ?
    I have just been looking at the prices on the pricelist, and they seem
    quite low.
    Here is the schools agreement info page at Datacoms site
    http://www.dsv.co.nz/moe/MoE_State.html
     
    sam, May 29, 2007
    #11
  12. peterwn

    Allistar Guest

    peterwn wrote:

    > Sue Bilstein wrote:
    >
    >>> impossible wrote:
    >>>>>> ... what do you mean by that?
    >>>> Nice "simple example". But what does any of this have to do with
    >>>> getting office software on school computers?
    >>> Nothing. I was merely answering Sue's question about intellectual
    >>> property.

    >>
    >> However, I was specifically asking about what you meant in relation to
    >> software for schools.
    >> -----
    >> Er ...

    >
    > That is OK. It had occurred to me that Microsoft could concede on this
    > one or offer a better deal, but in return may seek some quid pro quo
    > which may not necessarily education based. A possibility is a
    > legislative tweak involving intellectual property which while appearing
    > trivial, effectively transfers significant wealth out of NZ - not the
    > Government's wealth, but wealth that belongs to everyone.


    The current environment (of the government paying for *any* MS product at
    all) sees significant "wealth that belongs to everyone" transferred out of
    NZ.

    The government has no wealth it doesn't take from it's citizens.

    > Such a deal can be very tempting if it helps solve an immediate problem
    > and does cost money to be met from Government funds.


    I strongly suggest free (as in no license fees) alternatives to MS operating
    systems and MS office suites.

    > This concept is a bit difficult to grasp, but nevertheless is a very
    > important concept for those interested in general public affairs.


    It is important. The government staying in bed with a large overseas
    corporate (that has been convicted of monopoly abuse) is not in the public
    interest.

    >>> pass some intellectual property rights from the 'commons' enjoyed
    >>> by all Kiwis to overseas corporations.

    >>
    >>
    >> ... what do you mean by that?

    >
    > Sorry, this is an abstract but nevertheless important statement.
    >
    > Take the patent example. A Kiwi start-up develops a product, gets up
    > and running and is doing well. An overseas company comes along and
    > demands crippling royalties on the strength of a dubious patent. Faced
    > with royalty payments which makes the product not worth producing, or a
    > legal fight which is morally winnable but financially disastrous, the NZ
    > company reluctantly stops production. Meanwhile the overseas company
    > steps in with a similar product which Kiwis have to buy at a much higher
    > price.


    Which is why patents (especially trivial ones, and especially on software)
    are generally a bad idea. They have their place but they have gotten out of
    hand.

    NZ should not be bound by overseas patents unless those patents are
    successfully registered here as well.

    >> Quid pro quo, Microsoft provides MS Office to schools in return for
    >> copyright on schoolkids' artworks?


    > No, I did not mean this, and in any case the school probably does not
    > have full IP rights in pupils' works capable of being assigned - the
    > 'nemo dat' principle. I was thinking more of potential property rights
    > which could be extracted out of the 'commons' and effectively vested in
    > someone, even an overseas corporation, by a mere legislative enactment
    > or amendment. An extreme example would be air, or a more realistic
    > example 'carbon emission rights', but would also include intellectual
    > property such as 'out of copyright' works, or by virtue of widening the
    > scope of patent laws. I can well imagine a company such as Microsoft
    > seeking such extremely valuable property rights in return for offering a
    > fantastic 'knock down' price for software for schools.


    The government should look into the practices of this company and
    investigate alternatives.

    > Sorry, I did not pick the 'link' between your two comments first time
    > round.


    Allistar.
     
    Allistar, May 29, 2007
    #12
  13. peterwn

    peterwn Guest

    sam wrote:
    > peterwn wrote:
    >
    > Do you know what Microsoft are actually charging for the non-core
    > software outside the Windows PC volume licensing agreement ?
    > I have just been looking at the prices on the pricelist, and they seem
    > quite low.
    > Here is the schools agreement info page at Datacoms site
    > http://www.dsv.co.nz/moe/MoE_State.html


    It is a bit tricky to tell, I am involved no more than those who read
    public media. It seems that Microsoft thinks the Ministry should be
    paying something for each Mac in schools whether MS Office is loaded or
    not. It seems that the Ministry thinks it should pay on the basis of
    the Macs actually running Microsoft Office (about 50% of the total). I
    had always thought the Ministry paid a negotiated fee (about $7M) for an
    'omnibus' licence hence there could perhaps be a charge component that
    does not go via Datacom. I had assumed from the Herald article that the
    Ministry is paying per seat for Mac MS Office but that MS wants a
    payment per Mac in schools regardless of whether MS Office is loaded or
    not.

    I suspect that Microsoft may also be after something for every school
    computer running Linux on the grounds that Linux allegedly contains
    Microsoft IP.
     
    peterwn, May 29, 2007
    #13
  14. peterwn

    sam Guest

    peterwn wrote:
    > sam wrote:
    >> peterwn wrote:
    >>
    >> Do you know what Microsoft are actually charging for the non-core
    >> software outside the Windows PC volume licensing agreement ?
    >> I have just been looking at the prices on the pricelist, and they seem
    >> quite low.
    >> Here is the schools agreement info page at Datacoms site
    >> http://www.dsv.co.nz/moe/MoE_State.html

    >
    > It is a bit tricky to tell, I am involved no more than those who read
    > public media. It seems that Microsoft thinks the Ministry should be
    > paying something for each Mac in schools whether MS Office is loaded or
    > not. It seems that the Ministry thinks it should pay on the basis of
    > the Macs actually running Microsoft Office (about 50% of the total). I
    > had always thought the Ministry paid a negotiated fee (about $7M) for an
    > 'omnibus' licence hence there could perhaps be a charge component that
    > does not go via Datacom. I had assumed from the Herald article that the
    > Ministry is paying per seat for Mac MS Office but that MS wants a
    > payment per Mac in schools regardless of whether MS Office is loaded or
    > not.



    Well lets take the figures from the article. $2.7 million divided by
    25,000 Macintoshes is $1080 per Mac which does sound quite expensive
    given that the retail price of Microsoft Office for Macs is $720
    Perhaps it wasn't a good deal ?



    >
    > I suspect that Microsoft may also be after something for every school
    > computer running Linux on the grounds that Linux allegedly contains
    > Microsoft IP.
    >
    >


    Some evidence to back up that completely unsubstantiated claim would
    help your case.
     
    sam, May 29, 2007
    #14
  15. peterwn

    sam Guest

    sam wrote:
    > peterwn wrote:
    >> sam wrote:
    >>> peterwn wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Do you know what Microsoft are actually charging for the non-core
    >>> software outside the Windows PC volume licensing agreement ?
    >>> I have just been looking at the prices on the pricelist, and they
    >>> seem quite low.
    >>> Here is the schools agreement info page at Datacoms site
    >>> http://www.dsv.co.nz/moe/MoE_State.html

    >>
    >> It is a bit tricky to tell, I am involved no more than those who read
    >> public media. It seems that Microsoft thinks the Ministry should be
    >> paying something for each Mac in schools whether MS Office is loaded
    >> or not. It seems that the Ministry thinks it should pay on the basis
    >> of the Macs actually running Microsoft Office (about 50% of the
    >> total). I had always thought the Ministry paid a negotiated fee
    >> (about $7M) for an 'omnibus' licence hence there could perhaps be a
    >> charge component that does not go via Datacom. I had assumed from the
    >> Herald article that the Ministry is paying per seat for Mac MS Office
    >> but that MS wants a payment per Mac in schools regardless of whether
    >> MS Office is loaded or not.

    >
    >
    > Well lets take the figures from the article. $2.7 million divided by
    > 25,000 Macintoshes is $1080 per Mac which does sound quite expensive
    > given that the retail price of Microsoft Office for Macs is $720
    > Perhaps it wasn't a good deal ?
    >
    >

    Whoops, make that $108 per Mac, thats better, but still not great
    compared to the probable cost per Windows PC
    Still I can see that it would be easier with the volume licensing keys
    and all to separate out the Macintosh Office licenses from the Windows deal.
     
    sam, May 29, 2007
    #15
  16. peterwn

    peterwn Guest

    sam wrote:
    > peterwn wrote:


    >> I suspect that Microsoft may also be after something for every school
    >> computer running Linux on the grounds that Linux allegedly contains
    >> Microsoft IP.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Some evidence to back up that completely unsubstantiated claim would
    > help your case.
    >


    A suspicion is not a claim. A foundation for the suspicion is that
    Microsoft considers that Linux breaches 250 or so Microsoft patents and
    hence is devising ways of collecting a royalty (I often describe it in a
    more colourful way) from users (as evidenced by the Microsoft - Novell
    deal, and various Microsoft comments including one from Steve Ballmer).
     
    peterwn, May 29, 2007
    #16
  17. peterwn

    sam Guest

    peterwn wrote:
    > sam wrote:
    >> peterwn wrote:

    >
    >>> I suspect that Microsoft may also be after something for every school
    >>> computer running Linux on the grounds that Linux allegedly contains
    >>> Microsoft IP.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Some evidence to back up that completely unsubstantiated claim would
    >> help your case.
    >>

    >
    > A suspicion is not a claim. A foundation for the suspicion is that
    > Microsoft considers that Linux breaches 250 or so Microsoft patents and
    > hence is devising ways of collecting a royalty (I often describe it in a
    > more colourful way) from users (as evidenced by the Microsoft - Novell
    > deal, and various Microsoft comments including one from Steve Ballmer).


    Sounds like you are bullshitting
     
    sam, May 29, 2007
    #17
  18. peterwn

    Barry Lennox Guest

    On Tue, 29 May 2007 07:38:03 +1200, peterwn <>
    wrote:

    >See:
    >
    >http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10442388&ref=rss
    >
    >Microsoft wants the Education Ministry to pay for Microsoft licences for
    >MS Office on all Macs in schools although only half of them have the
    >suite loaded. Ministry said 'nix' and has told schools to delete
    >Microsoft Office from these machines.
    >
    >It is a great pity that our kids have to suffer because elephants choose
    >to rumble.
    >
    >However the good news is that Open Office is available for Mac OS X and
    >can be downloaded free or a CD (multi platform version) can be purchased
    >for $10 mail order (one CD will do a whole school and can be copied
    >legally - no per-seat licencing - it can even be lent to the kids to
    >install at home).


    No problemo then. Use Open Office and tell Bill Gates to sod off.
    Everybody wins, and the kids won't suffer a bit. In fact they have
    learnt a few valuable lessons.

    If you are big, you may be temped to bully others.
    Others may call your bluff
    You don't need to pay very much for some excellent software.

    There was some crazed apologist from MS here in this NG a while ago.
    You still there? Comments please. Or are you too busy trying to work
    out how to charge every window manufacturer in the world royalty fees?
     
    Barry Lennox, May 29, 2007
    #18
  19. peterwn

    Bobs Guest

    peterwn wrote:
    > See:
    >
    > http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10442388&ref=rss
    >
    >
    > Microsoft wants the Education Ministry to pay for Microsoft licences for
    > MS Office on all Macs in schools although only half of them have the
    > suite loaded. Ministry said 'nix' and has told schools to delete
    > Microsoft Office from these machines.
    >
    > It is a great pity that our kids have to suffer because elephants choose
    > to rumble.
    >
    > However the good news is that Open Office is available for Mac OS X and
    > can be downloaded free or a CD (multi platform version) can be purchased
    > for $10 mail order (one CD will do a whole school and can be copied
    > legally - no per-seat licencing - it can even be lent to the kids to
    > install at home).


    **** sounds awesome!!! Who's going to support this software though? You
    know, the part where the real money comes into it.

    I've seen it time and time again. X Company moves to open source
    software because it's "free" only to realize that when things go wrong
    (and they do) there's no support and the lost productivity far outweighs
    the cost of any purchasing of licenses.

    Oh yeah, and Open Office is complete bloated rubbish. If you're going to
    give someone a free office suite, at least try to recommend a good one.
     
    Bobs, May 29, 2007
    #19
  20. peterwn

    sam Guest

    Bobs wrote:
    > peterwn wrote:
    >> See:
    >>
    >> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10442388&ref=rss
    >>
    >>
    >> Microsoft wants the Education Ministry to pay for Microsoft licences
    >> for MS Office on all Macs in schools although only half of them have
    >> the suite loaded. Ministry said 'nix' and has told schools to delete
    >> Microsoft Office from these machines.
    >>
    >> It is a great pity that our kids have to suffer because elephants
    >> choose to rumble.
    >>
    >> However the good news is that Open Office is available for Mac OS X
    >> and can be downloaded free or a CD (multi platform version) can be
    >> purchased for $10 mail order (one CD will do a whole school and can be
    >> copied legally - no per-seat licencing - it can even be lent to the
    >> kids to install at home).

    >
    > **** sounds awesome!!! Who's going to support this software though? You
    > know, the part where the real money comes into it.
    >


    The same people that provide support for the MS product
    http://www.tki.org.nz/r/ict/helpdesk/ms_faq_e.php
     
    sam, May 29, 2007
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Au79

    Indian Schools Ditch Microsoft for Linux

    Au79, Sep 10, 2006, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    422
  2. Shane
    Replies:
    21
    Views:
    639
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    Jun 6, 2007
  3. Angel Eyes

    Microsoft Office Excell 2003 & Microsoft Office Word 2003

    Angel Eyes, May 19, 2008, in forum: Microsoft Certification
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    970
    lynwood
    Jun 30, 2008
  4. John O
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    3,328
    Bill Eitner
    Jun 5, 2008
  5. John O
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    2,037
    John O
    Jun 13, 2008
Loading...

Share This Page