Save or Archive file format- problems

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Reid, Feb 14, 2004.

  1. Reid

    Reid Guest

    I have been scanning files for several years and not saving the files
    for future use. Now I have a digital camera (Olympus 5060) and a new
    scanner is on the way (Nikon V ED). Now I will be saving files for
    long term access on CD (I don't have a DVD burner yet).
    Problems- I have been transfering files from the camera to the hard
    drive in 2 locations. They are different folders under Photos in My
    Documents. The JPEG folders in the folder that I had planned to
    transfer to disc became corrupted. They developed color bands accross
    the image- different colors and different locations. The thumbnails
    were fine, but almost all of the files were bad. All of the files in
    the other folder (~aquired) are fine. I work with the files in the
    ~aquired folder before printing.
    Any idea as to what corrupted the files?
    What is the best format for archival storage?
    I use PhotoShop Elements 2. TIFF and RAW images are slow on my camera
    (also,the new RAW plug in is not for Elements). I capture in SHQ
    JPEG. Lately, I have been batch transferring the JPEG files to the
    hard drive in PSD format where I can work with them.
    Please give me some experienced advice on work flow- where and what
    format to use transfering files from camera or scanner for finishing
    in PhotoShop. At what point do I archive my files- Dump from card to
    folder to CD? Save to folder to CD after manipulating?
    Easy CD questions- Save photos to CD-R or CD-RW? I am having
    difficulty saving additional files to a partially used disc. Can I
    periodically dump from card to CD until the CD is full?
    Again, any ideas as to how one set of files got corrupted and the
    other did not?
    I am looking forward to the help.
     
    Reid, Feb 14, 2004
    #1
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  2. Reid

    Ralph Mowery Guest


    > Please give me some experienced advice on work flow- where and what
    > format to use transfering files from camera or scanner for finishing
    > in PhotoShop. At what point do I archive my files- Dump from card to
    > folder to CD? Save to folder to CD after manipulating?
    > Easy CD questions- Save photos to CD-R or CD-RW? I am having
    > difficulty saving additional files to a partially used disc. Can I
    > periodically dump from card to CD until the CD is full?
    > Again, any ideas as to how one set of files got corrupted and the
    > other did not?
    > I am looking forward to the help.


    When you get home from shooting the pix dump the camera to the hard drive
    and then burn a CD in whatever format is on the hard drive. I usaually
    burn in other older pix to fill up the cd. Lets face it , it costs about $
    ..25 or less for a CD, can you replace any lost pix for that. Unless you
    have lots of time involved in the photo shop , you can always redo that from
    the CD. Even then if you back them up the next time you copy the new pix ,
    you will not loose too much work. I think you have just found out what
    saving a couple of dollars have just cost you. Don't even fool with the
    cd-rw or multi sessions due to the cost of the CD.
     
    Ralph Mowery, Feb 14, 2004
    #2
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  3. On 14 Feb 2004 07:39:05 -0800, (Reid) wrote:

    >I have been scanning files for several years and not saving the files
    >for future use. Now I have a digital camera (Olympus 5060) and a new
    >scanner is on the way (Nikon V ED). Now I will be saving files for
    >long term access on CD (I don't have a DVD burner yet).
    >Problems- I have been transfering files from the camera to the hard
    >drive in 2 locations. They are different folders under Photos in My
    >Documents. The JPEG folders in the folder that I had planned to
    >transfer to disc became corrupted. They developed color bands accross
    >the image- different colors and different locations. The thumbnails


    I had problems like that when I was using FAT 32 HD formatting due to
    electrical line noise. Since I changed to NTFS about 7 months ago,
    I've had no problems.

    >were fine, but almost all of the files were bad. All of the files in
    >the other folder (~aquired) are fine. I work with the files in the
    >~aquired folder before printing.
    >Any idea as to what corrupted the files?
    >What is the best format for archival storage?


    I use both CD and DVD.
    As Ralph mentioned, the CD R/W is something to avoid.

    >I use PhotoShop Elements 2. TIFF and RAW images are slow on my camera
    >(also,the new RAW plug in is not for Elements). I capture in SHQ
    >JPEG. Lately, I have been batch transferring the JPEG files to the
    >hard drive in PSD format where I can work with them.
    >Please give me some experienced advice on work flow- where and what
    >format to use transfering files from camera or scanner for finishing
    >in PhotoShop. At what point do I archive my files- Dump from card to
    >folder to CD? Save to folder to CD after manipulating?


    Were it me, I'd save them to the HD and copy the unmanipulated files
    to CD or DVD. Drives are now available that will write to both DVD
    and CD.

    >Easy CD questions- Save photos to CD-R or CD-RW? I am having
    >difficulty saving additional files to a partially used disc. Can I
    >periodically dump from card to CD until the CD is full?


    It depends on the program you are using and how familiar/proficient
    you become with it.
    Until you are really comfortable with the file writing/copying program
    I'd stick with just saving each session to a single CD. (they're
    cheap)

    Bother Nero and Roxio will allow you to run multiple recording
    sessions. I/E you can copy all files from a session and leave the disk
    open for writing. The next session can be added until the CD is full.
    I'd still save the images and copy them prior to manipulation to
    individual CDs per session and *then* experiment with copying multiple
    sessions to a CD. That way you run far less risk of corrupting files.

    >Again, any ideas as to how one set of files got corrupted and the
    >other did not?


    It sounds like line noise, power interruptions, or even "brown outs".

    IF you are using FAT 32 with XP I'd change to NTFS.
    I'd also invest in a *good* UPS with line conditioning to eliminate
    line noise.

    >I am looking forward to the help.


    Good luck,

    Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
    (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
    www.rogerhalstead.com
     
    Roger Halstead, Feb 14, 2004
    #3
  4. Reid

    Steve Guest

    I suggest CD-R, not CD-RW.
    First, they are dirt cheap - as little as 10 cents each.
    Second, as you are building an archive, you want a storage medium that is
    made for save-once, never erase. If you don't fill up a CD with whatever
    you have at hand at a given time, it doesn't matter.
    You can store your originals on one set of CDs, and your edited versions on
    another.
    Find an application that catalogs CDs so you know what is where.

    Good luck,
    Steve


    "Reid" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I have been scanning files for several years and not saving the files
    > for future use. Now I have a digital camera (Olympus 5060) and a new
    > scanner is on the way (Nikon V ED). Now I will be saving files for
    > long term access on CD (I don't have a DVD burner yet).
    > Problems- I have been transfering files from the camera to the hard
    > drive in 2 locations. They are different folders under Photos in My
    > Documents. The JPEG folders in the folder that I had planned to
    > transfer to disc became corrupted. They developed color bands accross
    > the image- different colors and different locations. The thumbnails
    > were fine, but almost all of the files were bad. All of the files in
    > the other folder (~aquired) are fine. I work with the files in the
    > ~aquired folder before printing.
    > Any idea as to what corrupted the files?
    > What is the best format for archival storage?
    > I use PhotoShop Elements 2. TIFF and RAW images are slow on my camera
    > (also,the new RAW plug in is not for Elements). I capture in SHQ
    > JPEG. Lately, I have been batch transferring the JPEG files to the
    > hard drive in PSD format where I can work with them.
    > Please give me some experienced advice on work flow- where and what
    > format to use transfering files from camera or scanner for finishing
    > in PhotoShop. At what point do I archive my files- Dump from card to
    > folder to CD? Save to folder to CD after manipulating?
    > Easy CD questions- Save photos to CD-R or CD-RW? I am having
    > difficulty saving additional files to a partially used disc. Can I
    > periodically dump from card to CD until the CD is full?
    > Again, any ideas as to how one set of files got corrupted and the
    > other did not?
    > I am looking forward to the help.
     
    Steve, Feb 14, 2004
    #4
  5. Reid

    John Guest

    Reid wrote:

    > I have been scanning files for several years and not saving the files
    > for future use. Now I have a digital camera (Olympus 5060) and a new
    > scanner is on the way (Nikon V ED). Now I will be saving files for
    > long term access on CD (I don't have a DVD burner yet).
    > Problems- I have been transfering files from the camera to the hard
    > drive in 2 locations. They are different folders under Photos in My
    > Documents. The JPEG folders in the folder that I had planned to
    > transfer to disc became corrupted. They developed color bands accross
    > the image- different colors and different locations. The thumbnails
    > were fine, but almost all of the files were bad. All of the files in
    > the other folder (~aquired) are fine. I work with the files in the
    > ~aquired folder before printing.
    > Any idea as to what corrupted the files?
    > What is the best format for archival storage?
    > I use PhotoShop Elements 2. TIFF and RAW images are slow on my camera
    > (also,the new RAW plug in is not for Elements). I capture in SHQ
    > JPEG. Lately, I have been batch transferring the JPEG files to the
    > hard drive in PSD format where I can work with them.
    > Please give me some experienced advice on work flow- where and what
    > format to use transfering files from camera or scanner for finishing
    > in PhotoShop. At what point do I archive my files- Dump from card to
    > folder to CD? Save to folder to CD after manipulating?
    > Easy CD questions- Save photos to CD-R or CD-RW? I am having
    > difficulty saving additional files to a partially used disc. Can I
    > periodically dump from card to CD until the CD is full?
    > Again, any ideas as to how one set of files got corrupted and the
    > other did not?
    > I am looking forward to the help.


    Kinda hard to say what caused the corruption. Could be bad
    cable/connection to camera. Have you ever discovered a bad
    image and retransfer the image from your camera? Did the
    second transfer look the same as the first bad image?

    I'm not clear about how your two folders, thumbnails, etc.
    were created, but read on...

    If you truly want the best format for archival storage it would
    be Tiff. Tiff is generic and non-lossy. Raw is a second choice
    but I'm not sure if the Olympus format is proprietary or not.
    If it's proprietary then you run the risk that the software that
    you have in 10 years may not be able to read it.

    When you say Tiff & Raw images are "slow on my camera" do
    you mean it's slow to transfer from camera to computer? If so
    and you have USB 2.0 or Firewire, get one of those Multi Card Readers
    where you can just pop in your card and transfer much faster
    (I think you have USB 1.1).

    To organize, I would just create a folder manually in "Photos"
    based on date or event and just use Explorer to copy the files
    from your camera.

    Do you archive these original files and/or manipulated files
    generated from Elements? It depends on your own personal
    preference. If you're the type that just wants the final result
    and would never go back to the original then just archive the
    manipulated files. Personally I archive both. I look at the
    originals as "negatives". Once you lose these, your out of luck.
    The manipulated are the cleaned up, cropped, etc. that what
    I would duplicate if needed without having to redo the work.

    CD-R and not CR-RW. When using Easy CD (which version?)
    make sure you "Finalize Session. Don't Finalize Disk".
    This will allow you to continue to write more "sessions" to
    the CD-R.
     
    John, Feb 14, 2004
    #5
  6. Reid

    John Guest

    Oh, and don't use the cheapest CD-R media you can find. Archiving
    means keeping a long time and you want to be able to retrieve it
    reliably. Cheap media are a risk. When buying media, look carefully
    at the package and look for "Made in Japan". The quality is much
    higher. Check alt.comp.periphs.cdr newgroup.
     
    John, Feb 14, 2004
    #6
  7. Reid

    Steve Guest

    Uh, oh. You mean my "Hi-Val" brand, made in Taiwan CDRs that I bought in
    Staples for $4.99 for 50 wasn't a great idea? Damn.

    "John" <> wrote in message news:...
    > Oh, and don't use the cheapest CD-R media you can find. Archiving
    > means keeping a long time and you want to be able to retrieve it
    > reliably. Cheap media are a risk. When buying media, look carefully
    > at the package and look for "Made in Japan". The quality is much
    > higher. Check alt.comp.periphs.cdr newgroup.
    >
     
    Steve, Feb 14, 2004
    #7
  8. Reid

    Reid Guest

    Thanks for the responses.
    My hard drive is in NTFS format.
    Intestingly, today, I have been able to reproduce the problem with the
    corrupted files. If I close PSE and/or reboot the files load
    correctly. This is definitly more of a problem from CD than HD.
    When I run multisession CDR the session closes unexpectedly. ie. I
    can save many files, remove the disk, reboot, etc. and keep saving
    additional files, then on and occasion the session closes and the disk
    is not longer usable (it is not full, but appears full). I think it
    may have to do with opening files from the CD.
    I think I will dump files to the discs until it is full or closes.
    I will save an additional original to HD for manipulation.
    I will save favorite files to additional CDs.
    Suggestions for organizing software- Easy CD, PS Album, etc. or
    develop a separate system?
    Thanks,
    Reid
     
    Reid, Feb 15, 2004
    #8
  9. Reid

    John Guest

    > Intestingly, today, I have been able to reproduce the problem with the
    > corrupted files. If I close PSE and/or reboot the files load
    > correctly. This is definitly more of a problem from CD than HD.
    > When I run multisession CDR the session closes unexpectedly. ie. I
    > can save many files, remove the disk, reboot, etc. and keep saving
    > additional files, then on and occasion the session closes and the disk
    > is not longer usable (it is not full, but appears full). I think it
    > may have to do with opening files from the CD.
    > I think I will dump files to the discs until it is full or closes.
    > I will save an additional original to HD for manipulation.
    > I will save favorite files to additional CDs.
    > Suggestions for organizing software- Easy CD, PS Album, etc. or
    > develop a separate system?


    What do you mean "session closes unexpectedly"? Do you mean
    something happens when you burn it with Easy CD? What version
    of Easy CD are you using?

    It could be you may be having Operating System issues. Which
    version are you using?
     
    John, Feb 15, 2004
    #9
  10. Reid

    Reid Guest

    >
    > What do you mean "session closes unexpectedly"? Do you mean
    > something happens when you burn it with Easy CD? What version
    > of Easy CD are you using?
    >
    > It could be you may be having Operating System issues. Which
    > version are you using?


    John,
    Thank you for your replies. I have used Easy CD 5 & 6 and the Windows
    XP CD writing systems on this computer and another computer. I will
    have great success adding information to a CD-R for a while. At some
    point the session appears to finalize without my request. This may
    relate to opening files from the disc or manipulating the file from
    the disc and inadvertantly attempting to resave the file to the same
    disc (message read only).
    I will continue to work with this.

    In another post you asked about TIFF and RAW on my camera- image
    capture to the compact flash card is 14-17sec for TIFF and 5-9sec for
    RAW. During this time, no additional pictures can be added (ie
    frozen). For my purposes, I will continue mostly with SHQ JPEG.

    I will save the original file to CD.

    As I mentioned elsewhere, the "corrupted" files are OK after reopening
    PSE or rebooting.

    Thanks again,
    Reid
     
    Reid, Feb 15, 2004
    #10
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