Salary Survey for MCSD

Discussion in 'MCSD' started by David, Jan 20, 2004.

  1. David

    David Guest

    I just red a salary survey for MCSD at
    http://www.mcpmag.com/salarysurveys/.

    The average salary for an MCSD is $82,300.

    It seems to me that MCSD is designed for intermediate
    developers who expect to take more responsibilities and
    get a salary raise. Is this correct?

    Are those senior developers still willing to take exams?
    It seems to me that the answer is no. They already get
    good positions.

    Any idea?
     
    David, Jan 20, 2004
    #1
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  2. David

    zeus Guest

    But the problem is MCSD is taken and passed but people not even know how
    to code and they are not even eligible as Entry Level Programmer.

    Or there are many students who wish to take MCSD right after their
    graduation or some, before graduation. This is not so bad compared to
    people who don't know how to code and people make the career change from
    other fields.

    I have no qualms with people changing career to IT fields just because
    they think in IT, grass are greener. But I can't stand people who just
    make a change to IT jobs, tried to pass the MCSD (with brain dumps &
    bootcamps etc) and expect to have average salary that you posted.

    So, in a nut shell, I don't really believe those salary surveys because
    there are so many factors involved and that can't be a true indicator.
    And I think salary should go with what people did in thier day-to-day
    job. The certs should enhance their knowledge on those day-to-day jobs,
    not to the pay raise or salary.

    David wrote:

    > I just red a salary survey for MCSD at
    > http://www.mcpmag.com/salarysurveys/.
    >
    > The average salary for an MCSD is $82,300.
    >
    > It seems to me that MCSD is designed for intermediate
    > developers who expect to take more responsibilities and
    > get a salary raise. Is this correct?
    >
    > Are those senior developers still willing to take exams?
    > It seems to me that the answer is no. They already get
    > good positions.
    >
    > Any idea?
     
    zeus, Jan 21, 2004
    #2
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  3. Exactly.

    This is why most companies take the 'value' of these certification
    with a pinch of salt.

    What amazes me the most is that microsoft do nothing to improve the
    worth of their own certs. I guess they [microsoft] take the same
    approach as the red army did in the second world war - quantity before
    quality.

    On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 12:02:40 +0800, zeus <> wrote:

    >But the problem is MCSD is taken and passed but people not even know how
    >to code and they are not even eligible as Entry Level Programmer.
    >
    >Or there are many students who wish to take MCSD right after their
    >graduation or some, before graduation. This is not so bad compared to
    >people who don't know how to code and people make the career change from
    >other fields.
    >
    > I have no qualms with people changing career to IT fields just because
    >they think in IT, grass are greener. But I can't stand people who just
    >make a change to IT jobs, tried to pass the MCSD (with brain dumps &
    >bootcamps etc) and expect to have average salary that you posted.
    >
    >So, in a nut shell, I don't really believe those salary surveys because
    >there are so many factors involved and that can't be a true indicator.
    >And I think salary should go with what people did in thier day-to-day
    >job. The certs should enhance their knowledge on those day-to-day jobs,
    >not to the pay raise or salary.
    >
    >David wrote:
    >
    >> I just red a salary survey for MCSD at
    >> http://www.mcpmag.com/salarysurveys/.
    >>
    >> The average salary for an MCSD is $82,300.
    >>
    >> It seems to me that MCSD is designed for intermediate
    >> developers who expect to take more responsibilities and
    >> get a salary raise. Is this correct?
    >>
    >> Are those senior developers still willing to take exams?
    >> It seems to me that the answer is no. They already get
    >> good positions.
    >>
    >> Any idea?



    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Jan 21, 2004
    #3
  4. David

    Eric Guest

    David wrote:

    > Are those senior developers still willing to take exams?
    > It seems to me that the answer is no. They already get
    > good positions.


    Most of them don't even need a job. They just take the tests to give
    themselves a challange.
     
    Eric, Jan 21, 2004
    #4
  5. David

    Jay Walters Guest

    I concur and to add my own opinion about the original
    question:

    After excluding certified developers that obtain their
    certs through cheating and getting to the core of earnest
    developers:

    In my experience, yes, the certification seems to attract
    more mid level developers.

    Junior devs tend not to have the experience needed to
    pass the exams (without a lot of memorizing and studying).

    Senior devs tend to feel secure because of their lengthy
    experience and premium salaries. (Hey, once you hit a
    certain level, there isn't much to prove.)

    Mid level devs have a good mix of experience and
    enthusiasm, and although less efficient and design
    oriented - they can get the job done at a lesser salary
    than a senior dev.

    Employers often don't mind throwing a few grand to a mid
    level developer for learning a new technology and
    completing a certification - especially if it means the
    employer won't have to hire senior dev.

    This is why I think mid level devs certify more often
    than senior devs.
     
    Jay Walters, Jan 21, 2004
    #5
  6. David

    Guest Guest

    The only reason I got my certification was so I could wear the lapel pin and
    intimidate my fellow co-workers in front of the boss at status meetings.

    <Eric> wrote in message news:#...
    > David wrote:
    >
    > > Are those senior developers still willing to take exams?
    > > It seems to me that the answer is no. They already get
    > > good positions.

    >
    > Most of them don't even need a job. They just take the tests to give
    > themselves a challange.
     
    Guest, Jan 22, 2004
    #6
  7. David

    Eric Guest

    <WKidd> wrote:

    > The only reason I got my certification was so I could wear the lapel
    > pin and intimidate my fellow co-workers in front of the boss at
    > status meetings.


    Ah...the lapel pin! This is what distinguishes MCPs from "average"
    people. Wear it proudly - like a badge!
     
    Eric, Jan 22, 2004
    #7
  8. >I concur and to add my own opinion about the original
    >question:
    >After excluding certified developers that obtain their
    >certs through cheating and getting to the core of earnest
    >developers:


    I wish we could....

    >In my experience, yes, the certification seems to attract
    >more mid level developers.


    low level.

    >Junior devs tend not to have the experience needed to
    >pass the exams (without a lot of memorizing and studying).


    Nothing wrong with that, as long as 'memorizing' and studying results
    in an understanding of the subject area which can used in the real
    world.

    >Senior devs tend to feel secure because of their lengthy
    >experience and premium salaries. (Hey, once you hit a
    >certain level, there isn't much to prove.)


    And those people, such a myself, may not care. The only ways in which
    I could earn more money is to leave (no chance) or try for a change of
    career (too old).

    >Mid level devs have a good mix of experience and
    >enthusiasm, and although less efficient and design
    >oriented - they can get the job done at a lesser salary
    >than a senior dev.


    The true costs involved cannot be judged by the salary costs alone.
    Cheap does not always cheaper....

    >Employers often don't mind throwing a few grand to a mid
    >level developer for learning a new technology and
    >completing a certification - especially if it means the
    >employer won't have to hire senior dev.


    This should be the case for all levels. In this business you never
    stop learning because the pace of change is so rapid. My company
    values it's people and although software development is not it's core
    business, they recognize the importance of a successful IT
    infrastructure and are quite prepared to invest in it's people to
    ensure the continuing success of the company.

    >This is why I think mid level devs certify more often
    >than senior devs.


    I don't know, but think you are correct.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Jan 22, 2004
    #8
  9. >The only reason I got my certification was so I could wear the lapel pin and
    >intimidate my fellow co-workers in front of the boss at status meetings.


    It's also a great chick magnet - ask Consultant, he'll tell you.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Jan 22, 2004
    #9
  10. >Ah...the lapel pin! This is what distinguishes MCPs from "average"
    >people. Wear it proudly - like a badge!


    ..... or a brace.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Jan 22, 2004
    #10
  11. David

    Guest Guest

    When I wear my lapel pin in public, fathers will proudly offer me their
    daughter for marriage. High school kids would approach me on the street and
    ask for an autograph and career advice. Frankly, I've stopped wearing it,
    becuase it's just too much of a hassle.

    "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >The only reason I got my certification was so I could wear the lapel pin

    and
    > >intimidate my fellow co-workers in front of the boss at status meetings.

    >
    > It's also a great chick magnet - ask Consultant, he'll tell you.
    >
    > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    Guest, Jan 23, 2004
    #11
  12. David

    Jay Walters Guest

    >
    >This should be the case for all levels. In this business

    you never
    >stop learning because the pace of change is so rapid. My

    company
    >values it's people and although software development is

    not it's core
    >business, they recognize the importance of a successful

    IT
    >infrastructure and are quite prepared to invest in it's

    people to
    >ensure the continuing success of the company.
    >


    I agree - I see resumes every week for senior devs with
    outdated technology. Got one the other day, "Lotus
    Notes". They move on, to become plumbers. :)

    All kidding aside, I think smart companies are willing to
    invest in their people, there is a lot to be said
    about 'domain knowledge'. - Companies with a lot of turn
    over usally have a piss poor engineering team.
     
    Jay Walters, Jan 23, 2004
    #12
  13. >When I wear my lapel pin in public, fathers will proudly offer me their
    >daughter for marriage. High school kids would approach me on the street and
    >ask for an autograph and career advice. Frankly, I've stopped wearing it,
    >becuase it's just too much of a hassle.


    Oh the price of fame...

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Jan 23, 2004
    #13
  14. David

    Consultant Guest

    such is life

    "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >When I wear my lapel pin in public, fathers will proudly offer me their
    > >daughter for marriage. High school kids would approach me on the street

    and
    > >ask for an autograph and career advice. Frankly, I've stopped wearing it,
    > >becuase it's just too much of a hassle.

    >
    > Oh the price of fame...
    >
    > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    Consultant, Jan 23, 2004
    #14
  15. David

    ¢harlie Guest

    Lapel pin!

    The one for MCSE is so big and clunky that it should be a chest protector!!!

    I can't wait to see what the MCSD ones look like..


    "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >When I wear my lapel pin in public, fathers will proudly offer me their
    > >daughter for marriage. High school kids would approach me on the street

    and
    > >ask for an autograph and career advice. Frankly, I've stopped wearing it,
    > >becuase it's just too much of a hassle.

    >
    > Oh the price of fame...
    >
    > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    ¢harlie, Jan 23, 2004
    #15
  16. David

    Consultant Guest

    we refer to it as a shield

    "¢harlie" <> wrote in message
    news:_IgQb.107022$5V2.479299@attbi_s53...
    > Lapel pin!
    >
    > The one for MCSE is so big and clunky that it should be a chest

    protector!!!
    >
    > I can't wait to see what the MCSD ones look like..
    >
    >
    > "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > >When I wear my lapel pin in public, fathers will proudly offer me their
    > > >daughter for marriage. High school kids would approach me on the street

    > and
    > > >ask for an autograph and career advice. Frankly, I've stopped wearing

    it,
    > > >becuase it's just too much of a hassle.

    > >
    > > Oh the price of fame...
    > >
    > > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

    >
    >
     
    Consultant, Jan 23, 2004
    #16
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