Routers as opposed to ATAs

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Andrew Hodgson, Aug 20, 2005.

  1. Hi all,

    I am thinking of going with a VOIP service to use as an extra line,
    for cheaper phone calls. This is primarily for when my sister calls
    friends in the UK for longer periods, tying up the regular phone line.

    There are two possible ways to do this: Get an ATA, give it an IP
    address on the LAN (using a public address). Or, I could get a router
    with VOIP capability, and it can use the IP of the router to make the
    calls. Also, I have seen some routers give automatic prioritisation
    to VOIP calls, whereas if it was on the LAN side, I would have to
    manually set this up through the firebrick.

    Any suggestions? Am I better off sticking with BT 6p a minute option
    for evening calls that last for a lengthy period?

    Thanks.
    Andrew.
    --
    Andrew Hodgson in Bromyard, Herefordshire, UK.
    My Email: use <andrew at hodgsonfamily dot org>.
    Andrew Hodgson, Aug 20, 2005
    #1
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  2. Andrew Hodgson

    Guest

    On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 11:13:35 +0100, Andrew Hodgson <>
    wrote:

    > I would have to
    >manually set this up through the firebrick.

    Parden me but I would think you would be much better using a modem or
    a router I cannot see any connectors or anything on our firebricks all
    I can see on ours are scorch marks from the flames of the fire !! .
    Never heard of firebricks being used in connection with the internet
    or computers in general they usually found around fireplaces .
    , Aug 20, 2005
    #2
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  3. Andrew Hodgson

    Sean Guest

    wrote:


    > Parden me but I would think you would be much better using a modem or
    > a router I cannot see any connectors or anything on our firebricks all
    > I can see on ours are scorch marks from the flames of the fire !! .
    > Never heard of firebricks being used in connection with the internet
    > or computers in general they usually found around fireplaces .


    Think he means firewall :)
    Sean, Aug 20, 2005
    #3
  4. Andrew Hodgson

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "Andrew Hodgson" <> wrote in message
    news:
    > Hi all,
    >
    > I am thinking of going with a VOIP service to use as an
    > extra line, for cheaper phone calls. This is primarily
    > for when my sister calls friends in the UK for longer
    > periods, tying up the regular phone line.
    >
    > There are two possible ways to do this: Get an ATA, give
    > it an IP address on the LAN (using a public address).
    > Or, I could get a router with VOIP capability, and it can
    > use the IP of the router to make the calls. Also, I have
    > seen some routers give automatic prioritisation to VOIP
    > calls, whereas if it was on the LAN side, I would have to
    > manually set this up through the firebrick.
    >
    > Any suggestions? Am I better off sticking with BT 6p a
    > minute option for evening calls that last for a lengthy
    > period?
    >
    > Thanks.
    > Andrew.


    If you're looking for a recommendation for a specific unit, the only one I
    have personal experience of is the AVM Fritz!Box Fon which is an "all in
    one" box containing an ADSL modem, an ATA (single Ethernet port so you'd
    need a switch or hub to connect multiple computers, although it does also
    have a USB port) and two analogue phone ports.

    Each of the phone ports can be configured separately with different
    accounts from the same or different providers and each of the two phones
    connected can be made to ring for calls on either or both numbers. You can
    ring between them as well as a sort of mini-PBX.

    There is also a PSTN phone port which can be connected to either an
    ordinary analogue BT line (the phone port of the ADSL splitter) or an ISDN
    line. This will provide fallback if the VoIP system isn't working for some
    reason, or you can use it to set up dialling rules so that calls to
    mobiles or 0870 numbers go via BT, as a lot of VoIP providers charge more
    than BT for calls to these numbers.

    It does have QoS to give priority to VoIP calls as well, which needs no
    setting up.

    More info at www.avm.de/en if you want to have a look

    Ivor

    PS to Dex and Stefan no I don't have any connection with the company, even
    though they are German..!
    Ivor Jones, Aug 20, 2005
    #4
  5. Andrew Hodgson

    PC999 Guest

    "Ivor Jones" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > "Andrew Hodgson" <> wrote in message
    > news:
    >> Hi all,
    >>
    >> I am thinking of going with a VOIP service to use as an
    >> extra line, for cheaper phone calls. This is primarily
    >> for when my sister calls friends in the UK for longer
    >> periods, tying up the regular phone line.
    >>
    >> There are two possible ways to do this: Get an ATA, give
    >> it an IP address on the LAN (using a public address).
    >> Or, I could get a router with VOIP capability, and it can
    >> use the IP of the router to make the calls. Also, I have
    >> seen some routers give automatic prioritisation to VOIP
    >> calls, whereas if it was on the LAN side, I would have to
    >> manually set this up through the firebrick.
    >>
    >> Any suggestions? Am I better off sticking with BT 6p a
    >> minute option for evening calls that last for a lengthy
    >> period?
    >>
    >> Thanks.
    >> Andrew.

    >
    > If you're looking for a recommendation for a specific unit, the only one I
    > have personal experience of is the AVM Fritz!Box Fon which is an "all in
    > one" box containing an ADSL modem, an ATA (single Ethernet port so you'd
    > need a switch or hub to connect multiple computers, although it does also
    > have a USB port) and two analogue phone ports.
    >
    > Each of the phone ports can be configured separately with different
    > accounts from the same or different providers and each of the two phones
    > connected can be made to ring for calls on either or both numbers. You can
    > ring between them as well as a sort of mini-PBX.
    >
    > There is also a PSTN phone port which can be connected to either an
    > ordinary analogue BT line (the phone port of the ADSL splitter) or an ISDN
    > line. This will provide fallback if the VoIP system isn't working for some
    > reason, or you can use it to set up dialling rules so that calls to
    > mobiles or 0870 numbers go via BT, as a lot of VoIP providers charge more
    > than BT for calls to these numbers.
    >
    > It does have QoS to give priority to VoIP calls as well, which needs no
    > setting up.
    >
    > More info at www.avm.de/en if you want to have a look
    >
    > Ivor
    >
    > PS to Dex and Stefan no I don't have any connection with the company, even
    > though they are German..!
    >
    >


    i wasnt even going to make that suggestion ivor lovey
    PC999, Aug 20, 2005
    #5
  6. Andrew Hodgson

    Guest

    On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 13:01:21 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    <> wrote:


    >PS to Dex and Stefan no I don't have any connection with the company, even
    >though they are German..!

    Well you do go on about this "AVM Fritz!Box Fon" also Ivor so we can
    put it down to just another of your obsessions then Ivor .
    By the way Ivor that other great and very expensive product we spoke
    on the phone the other day, the manufactures have now admitted that it
    is very buggy when operated in that particular mode .
    , Aug 20, 2005
    #6
  7. Andrew Hodgson

    Ivor Jones Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:
    > On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 13:01:21 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    > <> wrote:


    [snip]

    > > PS to Dex and Stefan no I don't have any connection
    > > with the company, even though they are German..!


    > Well you do go on about this "AVM Fritz!Box Fon" also
    > Ivor so we can put it down to just another of your
    > obsessions then Ivor .


    If by "going on" about it you mean recommending it, then you're right, I
    do, I think it's a great piece of kit. Obsession..? I wouldn't go that
    far.

    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, Aug 20, 2005
    #7
  8. Andrew Hodgson

    PC999 Guest

    "Ivor Jones" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:
    >> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 13:01:21 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    >> <> wrote:

    >
    > [snip]
    >
    >> > PS to Dex and Stefan no I don't have any connection
    >> > with the company, even though they are German..!

    >
    >> Well you do go on about this "AVM Fritz!Box Fon" also
    >> Ivor so we can put it down to just another of your
    >> obsessions then Ivor .

    >
    > If by "going on" about it you mean recommending it, then you're right, I
    > do, I think it's a great piece of kit. Obsession..? I wouldn't go that
    > far.
    >
    > Ivor
    >
    >


    sipgate is your obsession ivor lovey
    PC999, Aug 20, 2005
    #8
  9. Andrew Hodgson

    Guest

    On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 13:44:27 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    <> wrote:


    >If by "going on" about it you mean recommending it, then you're right, I
    >do, I think it's a great piece of kit. Obsession..? I wouldn't go that
    >far.


    Personally I think it is a horrible looking thing now the Sipura 2000
    is a different thing altogether a great looking object mind you I have
    always liked things that are straight and square . I am not all that
    pleased with the Linksys routers due to the slightly curved apperance
    they have when you look at them from the front :)) .
    , Aug 20, 2005
    #9
  10. Andrew Hodgson

    Rupert Guest

    Rupert, Aug 20, 2005
    #10
  11. Andrew Hodgson

    davew Guest

    Sean wrote:
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Parden me but I would think you would be much better using a modem or
    >> a router I cannot see any connectors or anything on our firebricks all
    >> I can see on ours are scorch marks from the flames of the fire !! .
    >> Never heard of firebricks being used in connection with the internet
    >> or computers in general they usually found around fireplaces .

    >
    >
    > Think he means firewall :)


    Or one of these:
    http://www.aaisp.net.uk/aa/firebrick/
    davew, Aug 20, 2005
    #11
  12. Andrew Hodgson

    Brian Guest

    On 20.08.2005, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

    > Hi all,
    >
    > I am thinking of going with a VOIP service to use as an extra line,
    > for cheaper phone calls. This is primarily for when my sister calls
    > friends in the UK for longer periods, tying up the regular phone line.


    Having an extra phone line cannot be a bad move. Don't forget it can
    also have its own incoming number which family members can give out to
    their friends.

    How much cheaper outgoing calls will be is dependent on the VOIP service
    chosen. Posts in this newsgroup or a Google search will allow you to
    compare different offerings from various UK providers.

    > There are two possible ways to do this: Get an ATA, give it an IP
    > address on the LAN (using a public address). Or, I could get a router
    > with VOIP capability, and it can use the IP of the router to make the
    > calls. Also, I have seen some routers give automatic prioritisation
    > to VOIP calls, whereas if it was on the LAN side, I would have to
    > manually set this up through the firebrick.


    A third way: software plus microphone and headphones.

    If you already have a router I think I would go for an ATA plus a cheap
    cordless phone. Having no experience of routers with Voip ports
    someone else will have to advise you on whether these have any distinct
    advantages over my suggestion. In particular, I do wonder how effective
    the QoS capabilities are.

    > Any suggestions? Am I better off sticking with BT 6p a minute option
    > for evening calls that last for a lengthy period?


    Estimate the capital cost of equipment, the price of UK VOIP calls and
    how much is saved on renting another BT line. Factor in the importance
    and convenience of a second phone line to your family.

    Brian.
    Brian, Aug 20, 2005
    #12
  13. Andrew Hodgson

    Guest

    On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 15:01:09 +0100, "Rupert"
    <> wrote:

    >"Sean" <> wrote::
    >
    >> Think he means firewall :)

    >
    >http://www.firebrick.co.uk/
    >

    Oh dear what is up with you lot today I did know what he was on about
    I posted my remarks just to see if I could get some one saying I am
    stupid or thick what is up with you lot today :))))))))))))))))))).
    That apart it is quite a long time since I have seen any mantion of
    firebrick in any of the news groups before today .
    , Aug 20, 2005
    #13
  14. Andrew Hodgson

    Guest

    On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 14:13:57 +0000 (UTC), Brian <>
    wrote:


    >A third way: software plus microphone and headphones.

    Yuck !!! .
    >If you already have a router I think I would go for an ATA plus a cheap
    >cordless phone.

    Now you are talking but change the cheap for good quality I don't say
    this with particular reference to VOIP most cheap cordless are crap
    you need to be paying 30 or so pounds to get anything decent .
    >Estimate the capital cost of equipment, the price of UK VOIP calls and
    >how much is saved on renting another BT line. Factor in the importance
    >and convenience of a second phone line to your family.

    If cable Internet is an option no fixed phone lines are necessary at
    all .
    , Aug 20, 2005
    #14
  15. Andrew Hodgson

    Brian Guest

    On 20.08.2005, wrote:

    > On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 14:13:57 +0000 (UTC), Brian <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>A third way: software plus microphone and headphones.

    >
    > Yuck !!! .


    Maybe, but for someone investigating VOIP it is a relatively inexpensive
    way of starting out,

    >>If you already have a router I think I would go for an ATA plus a cheap
    >>cordless phone.

    >
    > Now you are talking but change the cheap for good quality I don't say
    > this with particular reference to VOIP most cheap cordless are crap
    > you need to be paying 30 or so pounds to get anything decent .


    30 GBP could be someone's concept of 'cheap'. On the other hand the
    Binatone I bought at Argus for 18 GBP works well for me and has clear
    audio.

    >>Estimate the capital cost of equipment, the price of UK VOIP calls and
    >>how much is saved on renting another BT line. Factor in the importance
    >>and convenience of a second phone line to your family.

    >
    > If cable Internet is an option no fixed phone lines are necessary at
    > all .


    Not being familiar with cable services do I take it that a second
    telephone line is provided at no cost?

    Brian.
    Brian, Aug 20, 2005
    #15
  16. Andrew Hodgson

    Guest

    On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 15:10:46 +0000 (UTC), Brian <>
    wrote:


    >30 GBP could be someone's concept of 'cheap'. On the other hand the
    >Binatone I bought at Argus for 18 GBP works well for me and has clear
    >audio.

    We have the Binatone twin pack bought from Currys 28.00 a little while
    ago and I agree they do work well a friend bought the 4 pack the other
    week from Argos 74.00 I think he said .The BT Diverse X10 is an
    exceptionally good single phone also but are a little hard to come by
    now around 34.00 from "The Phone Shop" .

    >Not being familiar with cable services do I take it that a second
    >telephone line is provided at no cost?

    Has I stated Brian with VOIP you just do not need a FIXED phone line
    at all .
    , Aug 20, 2005
    #16
  17. Andrew Hodgson

    Brian Guest

    On 20.08.2005, wrote:

    > On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 15:10:46 +0000 (UTC), Brian <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Not being familiar with cable services do I take it that a second
    >>telephone line is provided at no cost?

    >
    > Has I stated Brian with VOIP you just do not need a FIXED phone line
    > at all .


    Yes, I understand that but I originally pointed out that one of the
    considerations when taking the VOIP route is not having to acquire
    another line. Now I did mention BT but could have written 'BT/cable'.
    In either case the cost saving has to be balanced against expenditure on
    other items.

    Brian.
    Brian, Aug 20, 2005
    #17
  18. Andrew Hodgson

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "davew" <daviey.walker*SPAM*virgin.net> wrote in message
    news:
    > Sean wrote:


    [snip]

    > > Think he means firewall :)

    >
    > Or one of these:
    > http://www.aaisp.net.uk/aa/firebrick/


    Nice kit, shame about the price..!

    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, Aug 20, 2005
    #18
  19. Andrew Hodgson

    Ivor Jones Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:
    > On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 13:44:27 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > > If by "going on" about it you mean recommending it,
    > > then you're right, I do, I think it's a great piece of
    > > kit. Obsession..? I wouldn't go that far.

    >
    > Personally I think it is a horrible looking thing now the
    > Sipura 2000 is a different thing altogether a great
    > looking object mind you I have always liked things that
    > are straight and square . I am not all that pleased with
    > the Linksys routers due to the slightly curved apperance
    > they have when you look at them from the front :)) .


    Well I agree with you to a certain extent but at the end of the day it's
    how it works that is the important thing, isn't it.

    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, Aug 20, 2005
    #19
  20. Andrew Hodgson

    Me Guest

    >
    >If you're looking for a recommendation for a specific unit, the only one I
    >have personal experience of is the AVM Fritz!Box Fon which is an "all in
    >one" box containing an ADSL modem, an ATA (single Ethernet port so you'd
    >need a switch or hub to connect multiple computers, although it does also
    >have a USB port) and two analogue phone ports.
    >
    >Each of the phone ports can be configured separately with different
    >accounts from the same or different providers and each of the two phones
    >connected can be made to ring for calls on either or both numbers. You can
    >ring between them as well as a sort of mini-PBX.
    >
    >There is also a PSTN phone port which can be connected to either an
    >ordinary analogue BT line (the phone port of the ADSL splitter) or an ISDN
    >line. This will provide fallback if the VoIP system isn't working for some
    >reason, or you can use it to set up dialling rules so that calls to
    >mobiles or 0870 numbers go via BT, as a lot of VoIP providers charge more
    >than BT for calls to these numbers.
    >
    >It does have QoS to give priority to VoIP calls as well, which needs no
    >setting up.
    >
    >More info at www.avm.de/en if you want to have a look
    >


    Personally, I think you cannot go wrong with the Speedtouch 716 WL

    http://www.speedtouch.co.uk/prod716WL.asp?menuCurrPos=2.

    It is a modem / router/ wireless with 2 VOIP ports - so you just plug
    in an ordinary phone put in the name of your VOIP provider and your
    username and password and you are away. It also has QOS of required.

    It costs around £90

    Me
    Me, Aug 20, 2005
    #20
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