RIAA knocking on evil doer p-2-p uploaders doors to search-n-seize.........

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by 'Ole, Feb 15, 2004.

  1. 'Ole

    'Ole Guest

    I personally have no black and white stance on p-2-p file sharing....

    What I do find amazing (correct me if I'm wrong here) is the RIAA or it's
    Candian equivilant, and it's apparent claim to/right to track down people as
    if it itself, had policing powers ???

    Where do these people get off, and what legal right do they have to go to an
    ISP and demand detailed information about the ISP's users; Don't you
    normally in a democracy (we were one -last time I checked, although Dubya is
    fast ending that with Evil Doer legislation) have to like actually have a
    piece of paper from like a judge or something before you can start knocking
    down doors ?

    My understanding is these people (RIAA) are actually knocking on evil doer
    p-2-p uploaders doors to search-n-seize.........shades of nazi germany......

    --

    ------ 'Ole ------
    'Ole, Feb 15, 2004
    #1
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  2. In article <BeAXb.505148$ts4.141822@pd7tw3no>, REMOVEME-
    says...
    >
    >
    >
    > I personally have no black and white stance on p-2-p file sharing....
    >
    > What I do find amazing (correct me if I'm wrong here) is the RIAA or it's
    > Candian equivilant, and it's apparent claim to/right to track down people as
    > if it itself, had policing powers ???
    >
    > Where do these people get off, and what legal right do they have to go to an
    > ISP and demand detailed information about the ISP's users; Don't you
    > normally in a democracy (we were one -last time I checked, although Dubya is
    > fast ending that with Evil Doer legislation) have to like actually have a
    > piece of paper from like a judge or something before you can start knocking
    > down doors ?
    >
    > My understanding is these people (RIAA) are actually knocking on evil doer
    > p-2-p uploaders doors to search-n-seize.........shades of nazi germany......
    >
    >



    subpoena's can be obtained through a lawyer and registered with the
    courts system, not necessarily by a judge.... therefore, *if* the ISP
    doesn't have the will nor the capital to fund a fight, they'll cave.




    --
    Colonel Flagg
    http://www.internetwarzone.org/

    Privacy at a click:
    http://www.cotse.net

    Q: How many Bill Gates does it take to change a lightbulb?
    A: None, he just defines Darkness? as the new industry standard..."

    "...I see stupid people."
    Colonel Flagg, Feb 15, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. 'Ole

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 01:49:21 GMT, "'Ole"
    <> wrote:

    >My understanding is these people (RIAA) are actually knocking on evil doer
    >p-2-p uploaders doors to search-n-seize


    After all Britney Spears needs an extra jet.

    All I get is Jehova's witlesses.
    --
    Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Feb 15, 2004
    #3
  4. 'Ole

    Solbu Guest

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    On s√łndag 15. februar 2004, 02:49 'Ole tried to express an opinion:

    > Don't you normally in a democracy <snipp> have to like actually have a
    > piece of paper from like a judge or something before you can start knocking
    > down doors ?


    In my country (Norway), they do, yes.

    If they came here & did what apparently RIAA does in the states,
    the Juge would dismiss the case, due to illegal evidence.

    Even in the DVD Jon case, they had to get a search warant.

    - --
    Solbu - http://www.solbu.net
    Remove 'ugyldig' for email
    PGP key ID: 0xFA687324
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

    iD8DBQFALz5dT1rWTfpocyQRAhP8AKDOi1E6m/lCoa3SrssSNdBUVmii+wCg+DzH
    6KFQ39k4zKKrqKYdtAQG5D8=
    =+MFU
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
    Solbu, Feb 15, 2004
    #4
  5. 'Ole

    Harri Mellin Guest

    In article <>,
    Jim Watt <_way> wrote:

    > All I get is Jehova's witlesses.


    if you want them to go open the door naked

    --
    -------------------------------------------
    Swedish Webcams http://zap.to/webcams
    -------------------------------------------
    Harri Mellin, Feb 15, 2004
    #5
  6. 'Ole

    Gladys Pump Guest

    On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:37:39 +0100, Jim Watt <_way>, whilst in
    the alt.computer.security newsfroup, articulated the following sentiments :

    >All I get is Jehova's witlesses.


    Got to remember that one. Hehe.

    Regs, Pete.
    Gladys Pump, Feb 15, 2004
    #6
  7. 'Ole

    Gladys Pump Guest

    On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:33:57 +0100, Harri Mellin
    <>, whilst in the alt.computer.security newsfroup,
    articulated the following sentiments :

    >In article <>,
    > Jim Watt <_way> wrote:
    >
    >> All I get is Jehova's witlesses.

    >
    >if you want them to go open the door naked


    Is that the voice of experience ? :)

    I've noticed they are getting sly in their tactics now. Instead of the
    default 'one-old-bird-and-a-younger-priesty-looking-bloke' stance, they've
    started pressing younger women into action in what I can only assume is a
    ploy to get the male dwellers to the door for more than the standard 10
    seconds it takes to say, "No thanks !". Or a more colourful version.

    Unfortunately, one of the guys I work with is a witless. Right pain in the
    arse too. Too bad if our work syndicate wins anything on the lottery :)

    Regs, Pete.
    Gladys Pump, Feb 15, 2004
    #7
  8. 'Ole

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:19:22 +0000, Gladys Pump
    <> wrote:

    >I've noticed they are getting sly in their tactics now. Instead of the
    >default 'one-old-bird-and-a-younger-priesty-looking-bloke' stance, they've
    >started pressing younger women into action in what I can only assume is a
    >ploy to get the male dwellers to the door for more than the standard 10
    >seconds it takes to say, "No thanks !". Or a more colourful version.


    I believe its a problem as they are only supposed to marry within the
    faith, and there are more women than men.

    However, as they work from a playbook, I suggest:

    Opener: Hello we are going round talking about religion

    Answer: I believe there is one supreme intelligent being,
    you have just met him, you are boring him, now leave.

    .... there is no answer to that.

    You could always ask your man at work why the world did not
    end in 1976 as they predicted.

    There is also the option of a 'no religious callers' sign
    and since the second edition of mine, its been 100%
    effective. Perhaps it could be marketed.
    --
    Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Feb 15, 2004
    #8
  9. 'Ole

    Rowdy Yates Guest

    Jim Watt <_way> wrote in
    news::

    > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 01:49:21 GMT, "'Ole"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>My understanding is these people (RIAA) are actually knocking on evil
    >>doer p-2-p uploaders doors to search-n-seize

    >
    > After all Britney Spears needs an extra jet.


    Ms. Spears makes her money from total entertainment & merchandising. not
    music sales per se.

    I am not saying I feel bad for the music industry. In fact I am getting a
    guitly pleasure out of the whole thing.

    for years the music industiry were selling what cost them $1 to $2 to
    produce for around $20 more or less. not including the dirty accounting
    practices they employ on the actual artists themselves from where the
    product actually comes from. they were laughing all the way to the bank.

    now no one wants to buy music. a classic case of, "you get what's coming
    to you in the end".

    the music industyry is still going to be around. but before that happens
    and the dust settles, that entire industry is going to have to get re-
    engineered from head to tow. which also means a lot of people are going to
    be without jobs. hence, all the pathetic moaning and groaning from the
    major record labels.


    --
    Rowdy Yates
    Things I learnt in the army:
    -------------------------------
    Rule #1 -
    When they say, "We are going to ambush the enemy".
    It really means, "We are heavily outnumbered and no one wants to help us."
    -------------------------------
    I am Against-TCPA
    http://www.againsttcpa.com
    Rowdy Yates, Feb 15, 2004
    #9
  10. 'Ole

    Gladys Pump Guest

    On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:03:47 +0100, Jim Watt <_way>, whilst in
    the alt.computer.security newsfroup, articulated the following sentiments :

    >On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:19:22 +0000, Gladys Pump
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>I've noticed they are getting sly in their tactics now. Instead of the
    >>default 'one-old-bird-and-a-younger-priesty-looking-bloke' stance, they've
    >>started pressing younger women into action in what I can only assume is a
    >>ploy to get the male dwellers to the door for more than the standard 10
    >>seconds it takes to say, "No thanks !". Or a more colourful version.

    >
    >I believe its a problem as they are only supposed to marry within the
    >faith, and there are more women than men.


    In any other case, a welcome change. :)

    >However, as they work from a playbook, I suggest:
    >
    >Opener: Hello we are going round talking about religion
    >
    >Answer: I believe there is one supreme intelligent being,
    >you have just met him, you are boring him, now leave.
    >
    >... there is no answer to that.


    Hmm, might be worth a try if I've got the bottle ! To be honest, I'd be more
    interested in whether or not the birds have got anything on under those big
    coats.

    >You could always ask your man at work why the world did not
    >end in 1976 as they predicted.


    If he wasn't such a rude old coffin-dodger, I would. I'll save that one for
    when he next steps up on his soapbox. Shouldn't have long to wait ... :/

    >There is also the option of a 'no religious callers' sign
    >and since the second edition of mine, its been 100%
    >effective. Perhaps it could be marketed.


    Did you buy a Rottweiler at the same time Jim ? My signs never work :/

    Ok, they're home-made but I thought they'd still work just the same.

    Example for paperboys/girls:

    NO FREE PAPERS YOU BUNCH OF BORED, DISINTERESTED MISFITS ! AND STOP LOOKING
    AT MY CAR !

    For the Postman :

    FOR F**KS SAKE, WAKE UP AND PUSH THE DAMNED MAIL *ALL* THE WAY THROUGH YOU
    LAZY C**T !

    For the pyramid sellers, sorry ... Multi-heh-level-bwahaha-marketing :

    IT ISN'T GOING TO WORK FOR YOU. EVER. GO AND ASK FOR YOUR REAL JOB BACK.
    YOU'LL THANK ME FOR IT !

    For Religious Callers including, but not limited to, Jehova's Witlesses :

    7PM TONIGHT : BLACK MASS - LIVE GOATS THIS TIME (sorry about before)

    TOMORROW : BINGO


    Actually, come to think of it, I think going to the door naked is the
    quickest. :)

    Regs, Pete.
    Gladys Pump, Feb 15, 2004
    #10
  11. 'Ole

    Ford Prefect Guest

    Colonel Flagg wrote:
    > In article <BeAXb.505148$ts4.141822@pd7tw3no>, REMOVEME-
    > says...
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> I personally have no black and white stance on p-2-p file sharing....
    >>
    >>What I do find amazing (correct me if I'm wrong here) is the RIAA or it's
    >>Candian equivilant, and it's apparent claim to/right to track down people as
    >>if it itself, had policing powers ???
    >>
    >>Where do these people get off, and what legal right do they have to go to an
    >>ISP and demand detailed information about the ISP's users; Don't you
    >>normally in a democracy (we were one -last time I checked, although Dubya is
    >>fast ending that with Evil Doer legislation) have to like actually have a
    >>piece of paper from like a judge or something before you can start knocking
    >>down doors ?
    >>
    >>My understanding is these people (RIAA) are actually knocking on evil doer
    >>p-2-p uploaders doors to search-n-seize.........shades of nazi germany......
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    > subpoena's can be obtained through a lawyer and registered with the
    > courts system, not necessarily by a judge.... therefore, *if* the ISP
    > doesn't have the will nor the capital to fund a fight, they'll cave.


    Not in Canada! The new privacy laws that came into effect nation-wide
    on January 1, 2004, do not allow for this approach, as this is nothing
    more than a fishing expedition. The information can only be released
    if there is a lawful investigation in progress, and even then can be
    protected. In this particular instance, there is no lawful
    investigation in progress.

    >
    >
    >
    >
    Ford Prefect, Feb 15, 2004
    #11
  12. 'Ole

    Ford Prefect Guest

    'Ole wrote:
    > I personally have no black and white stance on p-2-p file sharing....
    >
    > What I do find amazing (correct me if I'm wrong here) is the RIAA or it's
    > Candian equivilant, and it's apparent claim to/right to track down people as
    > if it itself, had policing powers ???


    Caveat -- my comments pertain to the situation in Canada...

    They do not have police powers and therefore have to proveed through
    the courts to obtain any information. They can initiate a civil suit,
    but they cannot enter anyone's premises and demand anything -- if they
    did, they would blow their case out of the water and would be facing
    crimmnal charges of trespassing and threatening.

    Something that may also work against them is that the Canadian
    recording industry lobbied for and succeeded in getting the federal
    government to implement a tax on all recording media. The media taxes
    are meant to compensate artists and comanies for sales losses caused
    by downloading activities. This approach is being regraded in some
    legal cricles as tacit approval of downloading....

    > Where do these people get off,


    They are arrogant and are trying to cover up the fact that they
    screwed up big time -- they missed a golden opportunity to handle this
    properly, but were too stupid and greedy to understand what to do.

    > and what legal right do they have to go to an
    > ISP and demand detailed information about the ISP's users;


    They haven't any legal right to make these demands. They can file a
    civil suit and claim the ISP is causing them damage, but recent CRTC
    rulings and changes to terms and conditions of telecommunications
    service provision may actually work against them.

    > Don't you normally in a democracy (we were one -last time I checked, although Dubya is
    > fast ending that with Evil Doer legislation) have to like actually have a
    > piece of paper from like a judge or something before you can start knocking
    > down doors ?


    They have no rigt to enter any premises without a search warrant...
    and warrants are not issued to companies or associations. This would
    otherwise equate to providing them special police powers or status as
    special constables (very tightly controlled here in the Great White
    North). Entering without a search warrant would be considered "break
    and enter" or trespassing at the least and you could then call the
    cops and have them arrested.

    > My understanding is these people (RIAA) are actually knocking on evil doer
    > p-2-p uploaders doors to search-n-seize.........shades of nazi germany......


    They do so at their own peril up here... they do not have the
    authority for such actions with out a court order and police involvement.
    >
    Ford Prefect, Feb 15, 2004
    #12
  13. 'Ole

    Harri Mellin Guest

    In article <>,
    Gladys Pump <> wrote:

    > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:33:57 +0100, Harri Mellin
    > <>, whilst in the alt.computer.security newsfroup,
    > articulated the following sentiments :
    >
    > >In article <>,
    > > Jim Watt <_way> wrote:
    > >
    > >> All I get is Jehova's witlesses.

    > >
    > >if you want them to go open the door naked

    >
    > Is that the voice of experience ? :)


    nope info on how to get rid of them on a cd with punk music =)

    > I've noticed they are getting sly in their tactics now. Instead of the
    > default 'one-old-bird-and-a-younger-priesty-looking-bloke' stance, they've
    > started pressing younger women into action in what I can only assume is a
    > ploy to get the male dwellers to the door for more than the standard 10
    > seconds it takes to say, "No thanks !". Or a more colourful version.
    >
    > Unfortunately, one of the guys I work with is a witless. Right pain in the
    > arse too. Too bad if our work syndicate wins anything on the lottery :)
    >


    here in sweden they moved over to telephone terror insted of door terror =)

    --
    -------------------------------------------
    Swedish Webcams http://zap.to/webcams
    -------------------------------------------
    Harri Mellin, Feb 15, 2004
    #13
  14. 'Ole

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:36:59 +0000, Gladys Pump
    <> wrote:

    <snip>

    How about a 'I hired Tony Martin as a doorman'
    sticker?
    --
    Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Feb 15, 2004
    #14
  15. 'Ole

    Ford Prefect Guest

    'Ole wrote:
    > I personally have no black and white stance on p-2-p file sharing....
    >
    > What I do find amazing (correct me if I'm wrong here) is the RIAA or it's
    > Candian equivilant, and it's apparent claim to/right to track down people as
    > if it itself, had policing powers ???
    >
    > Where do these people get off, and what legal right do they have to go to an
    > ISP and demand detailed information about the ISP's users; Don't you
    > normally in a democracy (we were one -last time I checked, although Dubya is
    > fast ending that with Evil Doer legislation) have to like actually have a
    > piece of paper from like a judge or something before you can start knocking
    > down doors ?
    >
    > My understanding is these people (RIAA) are actually knocking on evil doer
    > p-2-p uploaders doors to search-n-seize.........shades of nazi germany......
    >


    Note the difference in Canada... it is NOT illegal to download music
    or other files from the Internet, but it IS illegal to upload the
    files and make them readily available. The CRIA (Canadian Recording
    Industry Association) is going after the ones who are making the files
    avialable, not those users who are donloading them.

    As of this afternoon, the CRIA case is on hold until March 12th.
    Ford Prefect, Feb 17, 2004
    #15
  16. 'Ole

    'Ole Guest

    any good links to this CRIA stuff ?


    --

    ------ 'Ole ------






    "Ford Prefect" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > 'Ole wrote:
    > > I personally have no black and white stance on p-2-p file

    sharing....
    > >
    > > What I do find amazing (correct me if I'm wrong here) is the RIAA or

    it's
    > > Candian equivilant, and it's apparent claim to/right to track down

    people as
    > > if it itself, had policing powers ???
    > >
    > > Where do these people get off, and what legal right do they have to go

    to an
    > > ISP and demand detailed information about the ISP's users; Don't you
    > > normally in a democracy (we were one -last time I checked, although

    Dubya is
    > > fast ending that with Evil Doer legislation) have to like actually have

    a
    > > piece of paper from like a judge or something before you can start

    knocking
    > > down doors ?
    > >
    > > My understanding is these people (RIAA) are actually knocking on evil

    doer
    > > p-2-p uploaders doors to search-n-seize.........shades of nazi

    germany......
    > >

    >
    > Note the difference in Canada... it is NOT illegal to download music
    > or other files from the Internet, but it IS illegal to upload the
    > files and make them readily available. The CRIA (Canadian Recording
    > Industry Association) is going after the ones who are making the files
    > avialable, not those users who are donloading them.
    >
    > As of this afternoon, the CRIA case is on hold until March 12th.
    >
    'Ole, Feb 20, 2004
    #16
  17. 'Ole

    Ford Prefect Guest

    Ford Prefect, Feb 22, 2004
    #17
    1. Advertising

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