RF signal over Cat5e network - ie TV over network links

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Hank, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. Hank

    Hank Guest

    Hi all,

    Anyone have any experience or links on howto carry an RF signal over a
    Cat5 network cable?

    Looking to split a single RF signal and then carry the signal out to 4
    different cables and then into the TV's in different rooms. I can't
    afford a $2000+ off the shelf solution so looking for something 'home
    grown' with maybe $200 or under worth of equipment.

    Any ideas?

    Cheers,

    Hank.
     
    Hank, Nov 16, 2006
    #1
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  2. Hank

    Flintstone Guest

    Hank wrote:
    > Hi all,
    >
    > Anyone have any experience or links on howto carry an RF signal over a
    > Cat5 network cable?
    >
    > Looking to split a single RF signal and then carry the signal out to 4
    > different cables and then into the TV's in different rooms. I can't
    > afford a $2000+ off the shelf solution so looking for something 'home
    > grown' with maybe $200 or under worth of equipment.
    >
    > Any ideas?
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Hank.
    >

    So you want something like these?
    http://www.lashen.com/vendors/intelix/AV-Cat5.asp

    Maybe Dick Smith has something suitable.
     
    Flintstone, Nov 16, 2006
    #2
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  3. Hank

    Earl Grey Guest

    Hank wrote:
    > Hi all,
    >
    > Anyone have any experience or links on howto carry an RF signal over a
    > Cat5 network cable?
    >
    > Looking to split a single RF signal and then carry the signal out to 4
    > different cables and then into the TV's in different rooms. I can't
    > afford a $2000+ off the shelf solution so looking for something 'home
    > grown' with maybe $200 or under worth of equipment.
    >
    > Any ideas?
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Hank.
    >


    The conventional way to distribute CATV RF signal is to use a
    distribution amp and RG6 coax cable, that would probably be the cheapest
    option.

    You can send video and audio over cat 5 with baluns available from
    jaycar and various network equipment suppliers.

    CATV on CAT5 baluns are available
    http://www.muxlab.com/products/ve_catv_ii_balun.html

    http://www.hometech.com/video/rf.html

    $US60 each though and you need a pair for each signal path

    You could experiment with a distribution amp and pair of regular 75/300
    coax > ribbon antenna baluns and tell us how you get on.
     
    Earl Grey, Nov 16, 2006
    #3
  4. Hank

    Mathew Good Guest

    On 16 Nov 2006 13:40:53 -0800, "Hank" <> wrote:

    >Hi all,
    >
    >Anyone have any experience or links on howto carry an RF signal over a
    >Cat5 network cable?
    >
    >Looking to split a single RF signal and then carry the signal out to 4
    >different cables and then into the TV's in different rooms. I can't
    >afford a $2000+ off the shelf solution so looking for something 'home
    >grown' with maybe $200 or under worth of equipment.
    >
    >Any ideas?
    >
    >Cheers,
    >
    >Hank.




    This is a BIG NO..

    If you can get under the house just do it with coax cable and "F "connectors this it the only way,
    plus you will need RF booster to handle the splitter loses, 6db per split.
     
    Mathew Good, Nov 17, 2006
    #4
  5. Hank

    Mathew Good Guest

    On 16 Nov 2006 13:40:53 -0800, "Hank" <> wrote:

    >Hi all,
    >
    >Anyone have any experience or links on howto carry an RF signal over a
    >Cat5 network cable?
    >
    >Looking to split a single RF signal and then carry the signal out to 4
    >different cables and then into the TV's in different rooms. I can't
    >afford a $2000+ off the shelf solution so looking for something 'home
    >grown' with maybe $200 or under worth of equipment.
    >
    >Any ideas?
    >
    >Cheers,
    >
    >Hank.




    This is a BIG NO..

    If you can get under the house just do it with coax cable and "F "connectors this it the only way,
    plus you will need RF booster to handle the splitter loses, 6db per split.



    My system consists of a Mast Head Amp and using RG6 cable fed into a 5 way F connector splitter use
    RG6 cable to each room, with F connecter sockets..

    I work in this trade to I do know what I am doing..
     
    Mathew Good, Nov 17, 2006
    #5
  6. Hank

    Richard Guest

    Hank wrote:

    > Looking to split a single RF signal and then carry the signal out to 4
    > different cables and then into the TV's in different rooms. I can't
    > afford a $2000+ off the shelf solution so looking for something 'home
    > grown' with maybe $200 or under worth of equipment.
    >
    > Any ideas?


    VHF should be fine, since the cables are good to 350 Mhz, I would
    initially try just whacking some baluns on each end and seeing what
    comes out the other end. UHF will be pushing it since that goes all the
    way up to 800's of Mhz
     
    Richard, Nov 17, 2006
    #6
  7. Hank

    Richard Guest

    Mathew Good wrote:

    > This is a BIG NO..
    >
    > If you can get under the house just do it with coax cable and "F "connectors this it the only way,
    > plus you will need RF booster to handle the splitter loses, 6db per split.
    >
    >
    >
    > My system consists of a Mast Head Amp and using RG6 cable fed into a 5 way F connector splitter use
    > RG6 cable to each room, with F connecter sockets..
    >
    > I work in this trade to I do know what I am doing..


    Depends what the OP wants to distribute, if its just the ch3/4 RF out
    from an old VCR or other old modulator, then it _will_ work fine on
    cat5e cables with just a cheap balun at each end of it. If he is wanting
    to send the entire RF band, then no, it will most likly not work.

    Its hard finding antenna installers that know what they are doing. I was
    in serious need of getting the channels here equalised before putting
    into the distribution amp and a few I called had no idea what I was
    talking about. In the end I gave up calling and just whacked a fixed
    tilt compensator on the UHF and a 6dB attenuator on the VHF and it
    worked sweet as removing all the cross channel interference.
     
    Richard, Nov 17, 2006
    #7
  8. Hank

    Mathew Good Guest

    On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:51:44 +1300, Richard <> wrote:

    >Mathew Good wrote:
    >
    >> This is a BIG NO..
    >>
    >> If you can get under the house just do it with coax cable and "F "connectors this it the only way,
    >> plus you will need RF booster to handle the splitter loses, 6db per split.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> My system consists of a Mast Head Amp and using RG6 cable fed into a 5 way F connector splitter use
    >> RG6 cable to each room, with F connecter sockets..
    >>
    >> I work in this trade to I do know what I am doing..

    >
    >Depends what the OP wants to distribute, if its just the ch3/4 RF out
    >from an old VCR or other old modulator, then it _will_ work fine on
    >cat5e cables with just a cheap balun at each end of it. If he is wanting
    >to send the entire RF band, then no, it will most likly not work.
    >
    >Its hard finding antenna installers that know what they are doing. I was
    >in serious need of getting the channels here equalised before putting
    >into the distribution amp and a few I called had no idea what I was
    >talking about. In the end I gave up calling and just whacked a fixed
    >tilt compensator on the UHF and a 6dB attenuator on the VHF and it
    >worked sweet as removing all the cross channel interference.




    Do not use antenna installers as they are mostly copyboys use a TV tech that does antenna
    insulations.


    Plenty of RF repeaters for that use no cables will do that..
     
    Mathew Good, Nov 17, 2006
    #8
  9. Hank

    jasen Guest

    On 2006-11-16, Hank <> wrote:
    > Hi all,
    >
    > Anyone have any experience or links on howto carry an RF signal over a
    > Cat5 network cable?
    >
    > Looking to split a single RF signal and then carry the signal out to 4
    > different cables and then into the TV's in different rooms. I can't
    > afford a $2000+ off the shelf solution so looking for something 'home
    > grown' with maybe $200 or under worth of equipment.
    >
    > Any ideas?


    you'll need a balun.

    -----

    if those TVs are monitors (have AV inputs) use off-the-shelf video baluns.
    ig not get some old VCRs and use them to convert AV to RF and use the same
    video baluns.

    you can get them from jaycar for ~$100 if you've got a trade account
    somewhere that deals in video or security equipment you can probably ge them
    for less...

    you'll need one on each end of each run so 8 off the shelf will do less than
    half the damage you feared.

    -----

    There may be a way to put the RF signal through a cat5 cable....
    going past 100 MHz may no work too well, but you could have success
    in the VL band...

    Cat 5 is 100 ohms, regular tv coax is 75 ohms and regular TV baluns
    are 300 ohms so that's not going to do it by itself.

    You need a 75 to 100 ohms balun.
    this means a turns ratio of sqrt(75/100)
    7:8 is close-enough to that.

    You'll have to wind it on a ferrite that's good for upto 100Mhz
    and you'll need one at each end of each run
    and you'll need to feed it from a VHF-L RF source... (like an old VCR, new
    ones seem to do UHF on the RF out)

    I reckon you could do the balun on regular TV antenna balun cores
    but because of the extra turns you'll need to use thin wire and
    might need to stack them up to stop them from saturating.

    (jaycar part LF1220 I'd use a stack use a stack of 4 at each end
    and for the wire WW-4012 (jaycar.co.nz))

    you could build a pair for under $20 (not including plugs etc)
    if it works acceptably build three more pairs and get an RF splitter or
    distribution amplifier, any change from $200 you can send my way.

    -----

    good luck.

    Jasen
     
    jasen, Nov 17, 2006
    #9
  10. Hank

    Richard Guest

    Mathew Good wrote:
    > Do not use antenna installers as they are mostly copyboys use a TV tech that does antenna
    > insulations.
    >
    >
    > Plenty of RF repeaters for that use no cables will do that..


    About 10 years ago I was using telephone cable to get the ch3 output
    from an analog sky box to my room from the lounge tv, worked fine, and
    phone cables not rated anywhere near what cat5e is. You may be surprised
    what works when it really shouldnt.
     
    Richard, Nov 17, 2006
    #10
  11. Hank

    Mathew Good Guest

    On 17 Nov 2006 10:02:54 GMT, jasen <> wrote:

    >On 2006-11-16, Hank <> wrote:
    >> Hi all,
    >>
    >> Anyone have any experience or links on howto carry an RF signal over a
    >> Cat5 network cable?
    >>
    >> Looking to split a single RF signal and then carry the signal out to 4
    >> different cables and then into the TV's in different rooms. I can't
    >> afford a $2000+ off the shelf solution so looking for something 'home
    >> grown' with maybe $200 or under worth of equipment.
    >>
    >> Any ideas?

    >
    >you'll need a balun.
    >
    > -----
    >
    >if those TVs are monitors (have AV inputs) use off-the-shelf video baluns.
    >ig not get some old VCRs and use them to convert AV to RF and use the same
    >video baluns.
    >
    >you can get them from jaycar for ~$100 if you've got a trade account
    >somewhere that deals in video or security equipment you can probably ge them
    >for less...
    >
    >you'll need one on each end of each run so 8 off the shelf will do less than
    >half the damage you feared.
    >
    > -----
    >
    >There may be a way to put the RF signal through a cat5 cable....
    >going past 100 MHz may no work too well, but you could have success
    >in the VL band...
    >
    >Cat 5 is 100 ohms, regular tv coax is 75 ohms and regular TV baluns
    >are 300 ohms so that's not going to do it by itself.
    >
    >You need a 75 to 100 ohms balun.
    >this means a turns ratio of sqrt(75/100)
    >7:8 is close-enough to that.
    >
    >You'll have to wind it on a ferrite that's good for upto 100Mhz
    >and you'll need one at each end of each run
    >and you'll need to feed it from a VHF-L RF source... (like an old VCR, new
    >ones seem to do UHF on the RF out)
    >
    >I reckon you could do the balun on regular TV antenna balun cores
    >but because of the extra turns you'll need to use thin wire and
    >might need to stack them up to stop them from saturating.
    >
    >(jaycar part LF1220 I'd use a stack use a stack of 4 at each end
    >and for the wire WW-4012 (jaycar.co.nz))
    >
    >you could build a pair for under $20 (not including plugs etc)
    >if it works acceptably build three more pairs and get an RF splitter or
    >distribution amplifier, any change from $200 you can send my way.
    >
    > -----
    >
    >good luck.
    >
    > Jasen




    What a utter Stupid way to do this, why not use the real thing, like coax and a "F" splitter box,
    very simple and Cheap..
     
    Mathew Good, Nov 17, 2006
    #11
  12. Hank

    NR Guest

    Mathew Good wrote:
    > On 17 Nov 2006 10:02:54 GMT, jasen <> wrote:
    >
    > >On 2006-11-16, Hank <> wrote:
    > >> Hi all,
    > >>
    > >> Anyone have any experience or links on howto carry an RF signal over a
    > >> Cat5 network cable?
    > >>
    > >> Looking to split a single RF signal and then carry the signal out to 4
    > >> different cables and then into the TV's in different rooms. I can't
    > >> afford a $2000+ off the shelf solution so looking for something 'home
    > >> grown' with maybe $200 or under worth of equipment.
    > >>
    > >> Any ideas?

    > >
    > >you'll need a balun.
    > >
    > > -----
    > >
    > >if those TVs are monitors (have AV inputs) use off-the-shelf video baluns.
    > >ig not get some old VCRs and use them to convert AV to RF and use the same
    > >video baluns.
    > >
    > >you can get them from jaycar for ~$100 if you've got a trade account
    > >somewhere that deals in video or security equipment you can probably ge them
    > >for less...
    > >
    > >you'll need one on each end of each run so 8 off the shelf will do less than
    > >half the damage you feared.
    > >
    > > -----
    > >
    > >There may be a way to put the RF signal through a cat5 cable....
    > >going past 100 MHz may no work too well, but you could have success
    > >in the VL band...
    > >
    > >Cat 5 is 100 ohms, regular tv coax is 75 ohms and regular TV baluns
    > >are 300 ohms so that's not going to do it by itself.
    > >
    > >You need a 75 to 100 ohms balun.
    > >this means a turns ratio of sqrt(75/100)
    > >7:8 is close-enough to that.
    > >
    > >You'll have to wind it on a ferrite that's good for upto 100Mhz
    > >and you'll need one at each end of each run
    > >and you'll need to feed it from a VHF-L RF source... (like an old VCR, new
    > >ones seem to do UHF on the RF out)
    > >
    > >I reckon you could do the balun on regular TV antenna balun cores
    > >but because of the extra turns you'll need to use thin wire and
    > >might need to stack them up to stop them from saturating.
    > >
    > >(jaycar part LF1220 I'd use a stack use a stack of 4 at each end
    > >and for the wire WW-4012 (jaycar.co.nz))
    > >
    > >you could build a pair for under $20 (not including plugs etc)
    > >if it works acceptably build three more pairs and get an RF splitter or
    > >distribution amplifier, any change from $200 you can send my way.
    > >
    > > -----
    > >
    > >good luck.
    > >
    > > Jasen

    >
    >
    >
    > What a utter Stupid way to do this, why not use the real thing, like coax and a "F" splitter box,
    > very simple and Cheap..


    Technically you may be correct about the most economical way to do
    this, but do you have to be so rude about it?

    also have you ever considered that the original poster may just have
    cat5 in place and no ability to install coax?
     
    NR, Nov 17, 2006
    #12
  13. In message <>, Mathew Good
    < wrote:

    > I work in this trade to I do know what I am doing..


    The more you say that, the less convincing it sounds...
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Nov 17, 2006
    #13
  14. In message <>, Mathew Good
    < wrote:

    > On 17 Nov 2006 10:02:54 GMT, jasen <> wrote:
    >
    >>On 2006-11-16, Hank <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Anyone have any experience or links on howto carry an RF signal over a
    >>> Cat5 network cable?
    >>>

    >>you'll need a balun.
    >>

    >
    > What a utter Stupid way to do this...


    Why?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Nov 17, 2006
    #14
  15. Hank

    JohnO Guest

    Mathew Good wrote:
    > On 16 Nov 2006 13:40:53 -0800, "Hank" <> wrote:
    >
    > >Hi all,
    > >
    > >Anyone have any experience or links on howto carry an RF signal over a
    > >Cat5 network cable?
    > >
    > >Looking to split a single RF signal and then carry the signal out to 4
    > >different cables and then into the TV's in different rooms. I can't
    > >afford a $2000+ off the shelf solution so looking for something 'home
    > >grown' with maybe $200 or under worth of equipment.
    > >
    > >Any ideas?
    > >
    > >Cheers,
    > >
    > >Hank.

    >
    >
    >
    > This is a BIG NO..
    >
    > If you can get under the house just do it with coax cable and "F "connectors this it the only way,
    > plus you will need RF booster to handle the splitter loses, 6db per split.
    >
    >
    >
    > My system consists of a Mast Head Amp and using RG6 cable fed into a 5 way F connector splitter use
    > RG6 cable to each room, with F connecter sockets..
    >
    > I work in this trade to I do know what I am doing..


    WOGER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!1
     
    JohnO, Nov 17, 2006
    #15
  16. Hank

    Mathew Good Guest

    On 17 Nov 2006 13:21:47 -0800, "NR" <> wrote:

    >
    >Mathew Good wrote:
    >> On 17 Nov 2006 10:02:54 GMT, jasen <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >On 2006-11-16, Hank <> wrote:
    >> >> Hi all,
    >> >>
    >> >> Anyone have any experience or links on howto carry an RF signal over a
    >> >> Cat5 network cable?
    >> >>
    >> >> Looking to split a single RF signal and then carry the signal out to 4
    >> >> different cables and then into the TV's in different rooms. I can't
    >> >> afford a $2000+ off the shelf solution so looking for something 'home
    >> >> grown' with maybe $200 or under worth of equipment.


    >> What a utter Stupid way to do this, why not use the real thing, like coax and a "F" splitter box,
    >> very simple and Cheap..

    >
    >Technically you may be correct about the most economical way to do
    >this, but do you have to be so rude about it?
    >
    >also have you ever considered that the original poster may just have
    >cat5 in place and no ability to install coax?




    Why post if you done not have any thing better to suggest..

    Plus Plus Cat5 is just not suitable, wrong impedance and high loose.
     
    Mathew Good, Nov 18, 2006
    #16
  17. Mathew Good wrote:
    > On 17 Nov 2006 13:21:47 -0800, "NR" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Mathew Good wrote:
    >>> On 17 Nov 2006 10:02:54 GMT, jasen <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On 2006-11-16, Hank <> wrote:
    >>>>> Hi all,
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Anyone have any experience or links on howto carry an RF signal over a
    >>>>> Cat5 network cable?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Looking to split a single RF signal and then carry the signal out to 4
    >>>>> different cables and then into the TV's in different rooms. I can't
    >>>>> afford a $2000+ off the shelf solution so looking for something 'home
    >>>>> grown' with maybe $200 or under worth of equipment.

    >
    >>> What a utter Stupid way to do this, why not use the real thing, like coax and a "F" splitter box,
    >>> very simple and Cheap..

    >> Technically you may be correct about the most economical way to do
    >> this, but do you have to be so rude about it?
    >>
    >> also have you ever considered that the original poster may just have
    >> cat5 in place and no ability to install coax?

    >
    >
    >
    > Why post if you done not have any thing better to suggest..
    >
    > Plus Plus Cat5 is just not suitable, wrong impedance


    That's why you use a balun dummy.

    and high loose.

    You what ?

    I hope married life is treating you well.

    Sadly, Roger is probably right. For a $200 budget a conventional coax solution
    is probably the best option. Having the CAT5 in place as a draw wire is a major
    advantage.

    CAT5 could be made to work, but you can't go and buy a 1 into 4 CAT5 splitter.
    CAT5 is generally not shielded and thus interference is more likely even with
    the common mode advantage.
     
    Mark Robinson, Nov 18, 2006
    #17
  18. Hank

    Mathew Good Guest

    On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 11:51:45 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:

    >In message <>, Mathew Good
    >< wrote:
    >
    >> I work in this trade to I do know what I am doing..

    >
    >The more you say that, the less convincing it sounds...





    And the Reason for this Empty Post is..?
     
    Mathew Good, Nov 18, 2006
    #18
  19. Hank

    Mathew Good Guest

    On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 11:52:53 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:

    >In message <>, Mathew Good
    >< wrote:
    >
    >> On 17 Nov 2006 10:02:54 GMT, jasen <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On 2006-11-16, Hank <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> Anyone have any experience or links on howto carry an RF signal over a
    >>>> Cat5 network cable?
    >>>>
    >>>you'll need a balun.
    >>>

    >>
    >> What a utter Stupid way to do this...

    >
    >Why?




    If you don't know go to a School and find out, its so simple..
     
    Mathew Good, Nov 18, 2006
    #19
  20. Hank

    Mathew Good Guest

    On 17 Nov 2006 15:02:40 -0800, "JohnO" <> wrote:

    >
    >Mathew Good wrote:
    >> On 16 Nov 2006 13:40:53 -0800, "Hank" <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >Hi all,
    >> >
    >> >Anyone have any experience or links on howto carry an RF signal over a
    >> >Cat5 network cable?
    >> >
    >> >Looking to split a single RF signal and then carry the signal out to 4
    >> >different cables and then into the TV's in different rooms. I can't
    >> >afford a $2000+ off the shelf solution so looking for something 'home
    >> >grown' with maybe $200 or under worth of equipment.
    >> >
    >> >Any ideas?
    >> >
    >> >Cheers,
    >> >
    >> >Hank.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> This is a BIG NO..
    >>
    >> If you can get under the house just do it with coax cable and "F "connectors this it the only way,
    >> plus you will need RF booster to handle the splitter loses, 6db per split.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> My system consists of a Mast Head Amp and using RG6 cable fed into a 5 way F connector splitter use
    >> RG6 cable to each room, with F connecter sockets..
    >>
    >> I work in this trade to I do know what I am doing..

    >
    >WOGER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!1




    What crap have you posted it seems that you have nothing at all to offer..
     
    Mathew Good, Nov 18, 2006
    #20
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