Recording from cable box

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Just Me, Jan 2, 2007.

  1. Just Me

    Just Me Guest

    My cable TV DVR box has a firewire port that appears to be working. My PC
    also has a firewire port. How do I transfer the DVR recorded shows from the
    cable box to my PC hard drive? And then could I view them on my PC? Thanks
    for any response.
     
    Just Me, Jan 2, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Just Me

    why? Guest

    On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:43:51 GMT, Just Me wrote:

    >My cable TV DVR box has a firewire port that appears to be working. My PC
    >also has a firewire port. How do I transfer the DVR recorded shows from the
    >cable box to my PC hard drive? And then could I view them on my PC? Thanks
    >for any response.


    Do you think it may matter that you don't specify the exact make / model
    of the TV DVR box?

    If not then try, www.google.com
    Web Results 1 - 10 of about 325,000 English pages for
    record tv dvr firewire
    .. (0.16 seconds)

    Me
     
    why?, Jan 2, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Just Me

    Just Me Guest

    Thanks for your response. The cable TV DVR box is a Scientific Atlanta
    Explorer 8300 HD. I tried looking at Google but couldn't get a simple
    answer. I really appreciate any help with this.

    "why?" <fgrirp*sgc@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:43:51 GMT, Just Me wrote:
    >
    >>My cable TV DVR box has a firewire port that appears to be working. My PC
    >>also has a firewire port. How do I transfer the DVR recorded shows from
    >>the
    >>cable box to my PC hard drive? And then could I view them on my PC?
    >>Thanks
    >>for any response.

    >
    > Do you think it may matter that you don't specify the exact make / model
    > of the TV DVR box?
    >
    > If not then try, www.google.com
    > Web Results 1 - 10 of about 325,000 English pages for
    > record tv dvr firewire
    > . (0.16 seconds)
    >
    > Me
     
    Just Me, Jan 3, 2007
    #3
  4. Just Me

    Vanguard Guest

    "Just Me" <> wrote in message
    news:uKCmh.5796$...
    > Thanks for your response. The cable TV DVR box is a Scientific
    > Atlanta Explorer 8300 HD. I tried looking at Google but couldn't get
    > a simple answer. I really appreciate any help with this.
    >
    > "why?" <fgrirp*sgc@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>
    >> On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:43:51 GMT, Just Me wrote:
    >>
    >>>My cable TV DVR box has a firewire port that appears to be working.
    >>>My PC
    >>>also has a firewire port. How do I transfer the DVR recorded shows
    >>>from the
    >>>cable box to my PC hard drive? And then could I view them on my PC?
    >>>Thanks
    >>>for any response.

    >>
    >> Do you think it may matter that you don't specify the exact make /
    >> model
    >> of the TV DVR box?
    >>
    >> If not then try, www.google.com
    >> Web Results 1 - 10 of about 325,000 English pages for
    >> record tv dvr firewire
    >> . (0.16 seconds)
    >>
    >> Me

    >
    >


    "My cable box". So does that mean you actually bought it and it is YOUR
    cable box? If so, why not read the manual. If you meant that you are
    leasing the ISP's cable box, ask them for a manual.

    Your Googling (and subsequent subsearches) didn't lead you to:

    http://www.scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/new_explorer8300HD.htm

    ?

    From there it doesn't take much to find the manual. The "Connecting the
    Explorer ..." doc tells you what the ports are for. You will need to
    find recording software that installs on your PC and can accept input
    via firewire ports. IEEE-1394 defines the interface, not what handles
    the data on each end. The description in their connect guide only means
    firewire used to a HDTV.
     
    Vanguard, Jan 3, 2007
    #4
  5. Just Me

    Just Me Guest

    No, its not actually my cable box, it belongs to the cable company. The
    firewire port appears to be for hooking up a TV that has a firewire port
    too. I found a driver for hooking up the firewire cable from the box to my
    PC. I also got a free capture program but could not get anything to capture
    for some reason. The drivers and the program both triggered a warning from
    Windows XP not to install them. The whole process does not seem favorable.
    It would be nice to have a capture device or PC video card that has a
    firewire port.


    "Vanguard" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Just Me" <> wrote in message
    > news:uKCmh.5796$...
    >> Thanks for your response. The cable TV DVR box is a Scientific Atlanta
    >> Explorer 8300 HD. I tried looking at Google but couldn't get a simple
    >> answer. I really appreciate any help with this.
    >>
    >> "why?" <fgrirp*sgc@VAINY!Qznq.fpvragvfg.pbz> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>>
    >>> On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:43:51 GMT, Just Me wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>My cable TV DVR box has a firewire port that appears to be working. My
    >>>>PC
    >>>>also has a firewire port. How do I transfer the DVR recorded shows from
    >>>>the
    >>>>cable box to my PC hard drive? And then could I view them on my PC?
    >>>>Thanks
    >>>>for any response.
    >>>
    >>> Do you think it may matter that you don't specify the exact make / model
    >>> of the TV DVR box?
    >>>
    >>> If not then try, www.google.com
    >>> Web Results 1 - 10 of about 325,000 English pages for
    >>> record tv dvr firewire
    >>> . (0.16 seconds)
    >>>
    >>> Me

    >>
    >>

    >
    > "My cable box". So does that mean you actually bought it and it is YOUR
    > cable box? If so, why not read the manual. If you meant that you are
    > leasing the ISP's cable box, ask them for a manual.
    >
    > Your Googling (and subsequent subsearches) didn't lead you to:
    >
    > http://www.scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/new_explorer8300HD.htm
    >
    > ?
    >
    > From there it doesn't take much to find the manual. The "Connecting the
    > Explorer ..." doc tells you what the ports are for. You will need to find
    > recording software that installs on your PC and can accept input via
    > firewire ports. IEEE-1394 defines the interface, not what handles the
    > data on each end. The description in their connect guide only means
    > firewire used to a HDTV.
     
    Just Me, Jan 4, 2007
    #5
  6. Just Me

    Vanguard Guest

    "Just Me" <> wrote in message
    news:nB_mh.7116$...
    > No, its not actually my cable box, it belongs to the cable company.
    > The firewire port appears to be for hooking up a TV that has a
    > firewire port too. I found a driver for hooking up the firewire cable
    > from the box to my PC. I also got a free capture program but could
    > not get anything to capture for some reason. The drivers and the
    > program both triggered a warning from Windows XP not to install them.
    > The whole process does not seem favorable. It would be nice to have a
    > capture device or PC video card that has a firewire port.



    I've seen http://www.adobe.com/products/premiereel/ bundled with a
    3-port firewire card along with mention of capturing your DV camcorder,
    so presumably you connect the camcorder to the firewire port and have
    Elements capture the video coming in on that port. They have a free
    trial to see if it works for you. I don't know what freeware (maybe
    crapware) that you are currently trying. A Google on video capture
    software should turn up lots of possibilities, both free and commercial.
    Sony's Vegas Movie Studio is about $70. Their online manual mentions
    the hardware requirement "OHCI compatible i.LINK connector/IEEE-1394DV
    car (for DV capture and print-to-tape" and also say "All products with
    an IEEE-1394 connector may not communicate with each other" which is
    what I said about IEEE-1394 being an *interface* spec but not a data
    content spec. You might have to check if just any firewire port will do
    or if you need to get a special firewire DV capture card (Newegg has
    them cheap at $23 listed at
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815255014). You
    could try the trialware to see if it works with your current firewire
    ports. I'll leave the investigating of what is OHCI to you (Google
    works, sometimes too well).

    You could then see if realware works with whatever data format is
    outputted by your cable box using your existing firewire ports on your
    PC. If that doesn't work, get the $23 DV capture card with firewire
    ports and try again with the trialware. Then go hunting again for
    freeware solutions since whatever you tried won't work. You might still
    have to connect up separate audio outputs. I'm not techno video junkie
    so you might want to hunt around for newsgroups more focused on digital
    video. Adobe has their own forums, too.
     
    Vanguard, Jan 4, 2007
    #6
  7. Just Me

    Lookout Guest

    On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:43:51 GMT, "Just Me" <> wrote:

    >My cable TV DVR box has a firewire port that appears to be working. My PC
    >also has a firewire port. How do I transfer the DVR recorded shows from the
    >cable box to my PC hard drive? And then could I view them on my PC? Thanks
    >for any response.
    >

    What did your cable company say?
     
    Lookout, Jan 4, 2007
    #7
  8. Just Me

    Meat Plow Guest

    On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 05:47:43 -0600, Lookout Has Frothed:

    > On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:43:51 GMT, "Just Me" <> wrote:
    >
    >>My cable TV DVR box has a firewire port that appears to be working. My PC
    >>also has a firewire port. How do I transfer the DVR recorded shows from the
    >>cable box to my PC hard drive? And then could I view them on my PC? Thanks
    >>for any response.
    >>

    > What did your cable company say?


    The data files on a DVR are usually encrypted and not viewable on a PC
    unless they are decrypted.

    --
    Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

    COOSN-266-06-25794
     
    Meat Plow, Jan 4, 2007
    #8
  9. Just Me

    Just Me Guest

    I was reading in the manual for the cable box that the firewire port is a
    direct connection of the TV channel thats currently playing on the box. Its
    not a connection to the hard drive inside. You can actually watch TV off
    the firewire port if its connected to another firewire port on a TV set
    (probably the newer ones). The ultimate idea is to run the digital signal
    from the box to the PC. I'm assuming that if you did that, you would get a
    pure digital recording on your PC. At that point, you could pay $50 for the
    Video Redo program and then burn nice dual layer DVD's with HD quality.

    "Meat Plow" <> wrote in message
    news:p-meatplow.local...
    > On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 05:47:43 -0600, Lookout Has Frothed:
    >
    >> On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:43:51 GMT, "Just Me" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>My cable TV DVR box has a firewire port that appears to be working. My
    >>>PC
    >>>also has a firewire port. How do I transfer the DVR recorded shows from
    >>>the
    >>>cable box to my PC hard drive? And then could I view them on my PC?
    >>>Thanks
    >>>for any response.
    >>>

    >> What did your cable company say?

    >
    > The data files on a DVR are usually encrypted and not viewable on a PC
    > unless they are decrypted.
    >
    > --
    > Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004
    >
    > COOSN-266-06-25794
     
    Just Me, Jan 5, 2007
    #9
  10. Just Me

    Just Me Guest

    The cable company said that there was no way to record shows from the cable
    box onto your PC hard drive. I'm finding out that may not be entirely true
    although you might have to be a wiz to understand what to do.

    "Lookout" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:43:51 GMT, "Just Me" <> wrote:
    >
    >>My cable TV DVR box has a firewire port that appears to be working. My PC
    >>also has a firewire port. How do I transfer the DVR recorded shows from
    >>the
    >>cable box to my PC hard drive? And then could I view them on my PC?
    >>Thanks
    >>for any response.
    >>

    > What did your cable company say?
     
    Just Me, Jan 5, 2007
    #10
  11. Just Me

    Just Me Guest

    BTW, if I find out how to do this, do you want to try it?

    "Lookout" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:43:51 GMT, "Just Me" <> wrote:
    >
    >>My cable TV DVR box has a firewire port that appears to be working. My PC
    >>also has a firewire port. How do I transfer the DVR recorded shows from
    >>the
    >>cable box to my PC hard drive? And then could I view them on my PC?
    >>Thanks
    >>for any response.
    >>

    > What did your cable company say?
     
    Just Me, Jan 5, 2007
    #11
  12. Just Me

    Just Me Guest

    I've been using the Dazzle Video capture device for a couple of years now
    and it seems to work OK. It actually records TV shows directly to the hard
    drive in mpeg2 DVD quality that could be burned as data files directly to a
    disc. You hook up an S-video cable from the cable box to the capture
    device. I'm thinking that if Dazzle had one with a firewire port, you would
    then get a much better result thats pure digital and hopefully HD quality.

    "Vanguard" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Just Me" <> wrote in message
    > news:nB_mh.7116$...
    >> No, its not actually my cable box, it belongs to the cable company. The
    >> firewire port appears to be for hooking up a TV that has a firewire port
    >> too. I found a driver for hooking up the firewire cable from the box to
    >> my PC. I also got a free capture program but could not get anything to
    >> capture for some reason. The drivers and the program both triggered a
    >> warning from Windows XP not to install them. The whole process does not
    >> seem favorable. It would be nice to have a capture device or PC video
    >> card that has a firewire port.

    >
    >
    > I've seen http://www.adobe.com/products/premiereel/ bundled with a 3-port
    > firewire card along with mention of capturing your DV camcorder, so
    > presumably you connect the camcorder to the firewire port and have
    > Elements capture the video coming in on that port. They have a free trial
    > to see if it works for you. I don't know what freeware (maybe crapware)
    > that you are currently trying. A Google on video capture software should
    > turn up lots of possibilities, both free and commercial. Sony's Vegas
    > Movie Studio is about $70. Their online manual mentions the hardware
    > requirement "OHCI compatible i.LINK connector/IEEE-1394DV car (for DV
    > capture and print-to-tape" and also say "All products with an IEEE-1394
    > connector may not communicate with each other" which is what I said about
    > IEEE-1394 being an *interface* spec but not a data content spec. You
    > might have to check if just any firewire port will do or if you need to
    > get a special firewire DV capture card (Newegg has them cheap at $23
    > listed at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815255014).
    > You could try the trialware to see if it works with your current firewire
    > ports. I'll leave the investigating of what is OHCI to you (Google works,
    > sometimes too well).
    >
    > You could then see if realware works with whatever data format is
    > outputted by your cable box using your existing firewire ports on your PC.
    > If that doesn't work, get the $23 DV capture card with firewire ports and
    > try again with the trialware. Then go hunting again for freeware
    > solutions since whatever you tried won't work. You might still have to
    > connect up separate audio outputs. I'm not techno video junkie so you
    > might want to hunt around for newsgroups more focused on digital video.
    > Adobe has their own forums, too.
     
    Just Me, Jan 5, 2007
    #12
  13. Just Me

    Meat Plow Guest

    On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 01:02:12 +0000, Just Me Has Frothed:

    > I've been using the Dazzle Video capture device for a couple of years now
    > and it seems to work OK. It actually records TV shows directly to the hard
    > drive in mpeg2 DVD quality that could be burned as data files directly to a
    > disc. You hook up an S-video cable from the cable box to the capture
    > device. I'm thinking that if Dazzle had one with a firewire port, you would
    > then get a much better result thats pure digital and hopefully HD quality.


    my stand alone Lite On dvd burner has a firewire input for capturing
    direct from my mini dv cam corder. Also have a capture card that has
    firewire input.

    --
    Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

    COOSN-266-06-25794
     
    Meat Plow, Jan 5, 2007
    #13
  14. Just Me

    Just Me Guest

    I was just installing my drivers for the cable box to PC firewire connection
    when I found out that it was only for MS Media Center computers. I guess
    thats it for me since I don't have one.

    If your DVD recorder records directly from your cam corder by firewire, I'm
    wondering what would happen if you ran firewire from a cable TV box into the
    DVD recorder? And also try your firewire port on your capture card? The
    capture card sounds like the best way to go with this but may not be as easy
    as it sounds.


    "Meat Plow" <> wrote in message
    news:p-meatplow.local...
    > On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 01:02:12 +0000, Just Me Has Frothed:
    >
    >> I've been using the Dazzle Video capture device for a couple of years now
    >> and it seems to work OK. It actually records TV shows directly to the
    >> hard
    >> drive in mpeg2 DVD quality that could be burned as data files directly to
    >> a
    >> disc. You hook up an S-video cable from the cable box to the capture
    >> device. I'm thinking that if Dazzle had one with a firewire port, you
    >> would
    >> then get a much better result thats pure digital and hopefully HD
    >> quality.

    >
    > my stand alone Lite On dvd burner has a firewire input for capturing
    > direct from my mini dv cam corder. Also have a capture card that has
    > firewire input.
    >
    > --
    > Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004
    >
    > COOSN-266-06-25794
     
    Just Me, Jan 5, 2007
    #14
  15. Howdy!

    "Just Me" <> wrote in message
    news:nB_mh.7116$...
    > No, its not actually my cable box, it belongs to the cable company. The
    > firewire port appears to be for hooking up a TV that has a firewire port
    > too. I found a driver for hooking up the firewire cable from the box to

    my
    > PC. I also got a free capture program but could not get anything to

    capture
    > for some reason. The drivers and the program both triggered a warning

    from
    > Windows XP not to install them. The whole process does not seem

    favorable.
    > It would be nice to have a capture device or PC video card that has a
    > firewire port.


    Actually *ahem* IF your cable company has the ports enabled, that's
    supposed to be for connecting a FireWire HD to your box for extended
    storage.

    As to the "triggered a warning from Windows XP not to install
    them" - would it have been maybe a "This program is not digitally signed
    that Bill Gates has had his carnal knowledge with the code, so it's not been
    screwed up by Microsoft yet" message? If so, then no, it's not a warning to
    NOT install it, it's a warning that they haven't paid the bucks to Microsoft
    for the digital signature. Use at your own risk, of course, but you really
    SHOULD read the message more carefully next time.

    RwP
     
    Ralph Wade Phillips, Jan 5, 2007
    #15
  16. Just Me

    Top Guest

    Meat Plow <> wrote in
    news:p-meatplow.local:

    >On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 05:47:43 -0600, Lookout Has Frothed:
    >
    >> On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:43:51 GMT, "Just Me"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>My cable TV DVR box has a firewire port that appears to be
    >>>working. My PC also has a firewire port. How do I
    >>>transfer the DVR recorded shows from the cable box to my PC
    >>>hard drive? And then could I view them on my PC? Thanks
    >>>for any response.
    >>>

    >> What did your cable company say?

    >
    > The data files on a DVR are usually encrypted and not
    > viewable on a PC unless they are decrypted.
    >

    Could could this be acomplished with one of the PC digital TV
    cards?

    Top

    --
    ā€œI am a success today because I had a friend who believed in me
    and I didn't have the heart to let him down...ā€
    Abraham Lincoln quote
     
    Top, Jan 5, 2007
    #16
  17. Just Me

    Just Me Guest

    Looks like the SATA port is for connecting a HD for extra storage. The
    firewire is for connecting a TV.

    "Ralph Wade Phillips" <> wrote in message
    news:Gxlnh.2505$...
    > Howdy!
    >
    > "Just Me" <> wrote in message
    > news:nB_mh.7116$...
    >> No, its not actually my cable box, it belongs to the cable company. The
    >> firewire port appears to be for hooking up a TV that has a firewire port
    >> too. I found a driver for hooking up the firewire cable from the box to

    > my
    >> PC. I also got a free capture program but could not get anything to

    > capture
    >> for some reason. The drivers and the program both triggered a warning

    > from
    >> Windows XP not to install them. The whole process does not seem

    > favorable.
    >> It would be nice to have a capture device or PC video card that has a
    >> firewire port.

    >
    > Actually *ahem* IF your cable company has the ports enabled, that's
    > supposed to be for connecting a FireWire HD to your box for extended
    > storage.
    >
    > As to the "triggered a warning from Windows XP not to install
    > them" - would it have been maybe a "This program is not digitally signed
    > that Bill Gates has had his carnal knowledge with the code, so it's not
    > been
    > screwed up by Microsoft yet" message? If so, then no, it's not a warning
    > to
    > NOT install it, it's a warning that they haven't paid the bucks to
    > Microsoft
    > for the digital signature. Use at your own risk, of course, but you
    > really
    > SHOULD read the message more carefully next time.
    >
    > RwP
    >
    >
     
    Just Me, Jan 5, 2007
    #17
  18. Just Me

    Lookout Guest

    On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 07:58:49 -0500, Meat Plow <>
    wrote:

    >On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 05:47:43 -0600, Lookout Has Frothed:
    >
    >> On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:43:51 GMT, "Just Me" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>My cable TV DVR box has a firewire port that appears to be working. My PC
    >>>also has a firewire port. How do I transfer the DVR recorded shows from the
    >>>cable box to my PC hard drive? And then could I view them on my PC? Thanks
    >>>for any response.
    >>>

    >> What did your cable company say?

    >
    >The data files on a DVR are usually encrypted and not viewable on a PC
    >unless they are decrypted.


    I have a Motorola DVR from CableOne and all I need is the card for the
    PC.
     
    Lookout, Jan 5, 2007
    #18
  19. Just Me

    Just Me Guest

    I would suggest not just a firewire card but a video card that has a
    firewire port. You could only assume that the signal from the cable box
    would be recognized and show up on the monitor OK. Ideally, you would want
    to read on the box the card comes in that its able to read the signal from a
    cable box. I'm also finding out that you would want to have MS Media Center
    on your computer. That sounds reasonable since you would be trying to view
    the TV media. My Dazzle capture card says nothing about running a S-Video
    straight from a cable box but it works OK with it. It only recommends a
    camcorder or a VCR.

    "Lookout" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 07:58:49 -0500, Meat Plow <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 05:47:43 -0600, Lookout Has Frothed:
    >>
    >>> On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:43:51 GMT, "Just Me" <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>My cable TV DVR box has a firewire port that appears to be working. My
    >>>>PC
    >>>>also has a firewire port. How do I transfer the DVR recorded shows from
    >>>>the
    >>>>cable box to my PC hard drive? And then could I view them on my PC?
    >>>>Thanks
    >>>>for any response.
    >>>>
    >>> What did your cable company say?

    >>
    >>The data files on a DVR are usually encrypted and not viewable on a PC
    >>unless they are decrypted.

    >
    > I have a Motorola DVR from CableOne and all I need is the card for the
    > PC.
     
    Just Me, Jan 6, 2007
    #19
  20. "Just Me" <> wrote in message
    news:ZFrnh.7500$...
    > Looks like the SATA port is for connecting a HD for extra storage. The
    > firewire is for connecting a TV.


    Then SA has changed the possible definitions since I had one a year or more
    ago.

    According to the manual currently, it's to connect to a HDTV's IEEE 1394
    port.

    Back a year ago (and yes, it was a PDF, and no, I have no link to it), it
    was an "Option IEEE-1394 port for hard disk drive (support by cable provider
    only)" as was the e-SATA port.

    Tempus fugit.

    RwP
     
    Ralph Wade Phillips, Jan 8, 2007
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Tommy Halnet

    w2k box cannot browse w98 box with netbeui

    Tommy Halnet, Jan 2, 2004, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    439
    Tommy Halnet
    Jan 2, 2004
  2. az
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    460
    Owdio
    Feb 26, 2005
  3. NiteDawg

    recording from cable box?

    NiteDawg, Jan 2, 2005, in forum: DVD Video
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    437
    NiteDawg
    Jan 2, 2005
  4. MadMike42

    Recording Sky One from NTL Box

    MadMike42, Oct 22, 2006, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    428
    MadMike42
    Oct 22, 2006
  5. norswoolki
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    870
    norswoolki
    May 5, 2011
Loading...

Share This Page