Recommendation withdrawn for Symantec products

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by Bill Levinson, Feb 19, 2004.

  1. I have been a strong advocate of Norton Internet Security but I can no
    longer recommend this product due to (1) problems updating my virus
    subscription and (2) problems with technical support.

    Norton Internet Security reminded me last week (Feb. 11) that I needed
    to update my virus definition subscriptions. I went online and did so:

    Internet Order Number: [not posted here for security]
    Order Date: 20040211
    Customer Name: William Levinson
    Product: Internet security subscription service
    Quantity: 1
    Price: USD 29.95
    Estimated Tax: USD 0.00
    Total Charge: USD 29.95

    I was then given a code to enter into Norton Internet Security, and a
    warning that the code expired in two weeks. Upon following directions,
    however, I found that Norton AntiVirus (the tab in the software) would
    not open a window to allow me to enter the code.

    I had to wade through a very large number of windows to even be able to
    E-mail Symantec a request for technical support. Although an answer was
    supposed to be given in something like three business days, I have yet
    to receive a reply to my request for help. I did warn Symantec in this
    letter that I would tell my credit card company to deny payment for the
    update if I was unable to install it.

    I then called the very unfriendly 800 number for technical support. The
    recording at the other end makes it almost impossible for you to do any
    work while waiting for a technical support representative to pick up, by
    playing messages that break your concentration on whatever you are
    trying to do while you wait.

    A representative finally picked up and he promised to update my
    subscription manually. However, a week later, Norton Internet Security
    still tells me that my subscription expires on March 21 2004. So they
    told me they were going to do something and then they just didn't do it.

    I could not even find a feedback page when I specified Norton Internet
    Security 2002 this time, although I was able to find the page I used before.

    In any event, because of (1) Symantec's failure to deliver something for
    which I paid (a subscription update that I cannot install and that
    expires in a few days) and (2) Symantec's failure to respond to both
    written and telephone requests for assistance, in the latter case
    promising to do something and then just not doing it, I can no longer
    recommend Symantec products.

    I'd also like to know how someone keeps installing components of a worm
    on my hard drive despite my having the latest virus updates.

    I'm not sure what to recommend instead as I was very unhappy with a
    McAfee hard drive cleanup product that they forgot to mention didn't
    work with Windows XP.

    It's possible that Norton Internet Security may allow me to install the
    update within 30 days of my subscription's expiration. Nonetheless, due
    to the extreme difficulty in even getting to a page where I can send an
    inquiry, and then having them just not answer after an entire week, I
    can no longer recommend this company.

    --Bill
    http://www.stentorian.com/antispam/
     
    Bill Levinson, Feb 19, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Bill Levinson

    Leythos Guest

    In article <ZPaZb.12320$>,
    says...
    [snip]
    > In any event, because of (1) Symantec's failure to deliver something for
    > which I paid (a subscription update that I cannot install and that
    > expires in a few days) and (2) Symantec's failure to respond to both
    > written and telephone requests for assistance, in the latter case
    > promising to do something and then just not doing it, I can no longer
    > recommend Symantec products.


    I've done the online upgrade many times for clients and never had a
    problem with it. Sooner or later everything gives you a problem and how
    you deal with it determines its impact on you.

    > I'd also like to know how someone keeps installing components of a worm
    > on my hard drive despite my having the latest virus updates.


    This could be the root of your problem - there are many virus programs
    that delete the updates and disable AV products.

    > I'm not sure what to recommend instead as I was very unhappy with a
    > McAfee hard drive cleanup product that they forgot to mention didn't
    > work with Windows XP.


    Uninstall NAV, reinstall it, take the update and reinstall it, you're
    done.

    > It's possible that Norton Internet Security may allow me to install the
    > update within 30 days of my subscription's expiration. Nonetheless, due
    > to the extreme difficulty in even getting to a page where I can send an
    > inquiry, and then having them just not answer after an entire week, I
    > can no longer recommend this company.


    If waiting a week for a call back is going to get you to black-list
    companies you will have a long list.

    If your machine is compromised you have to fix that before you start
    blaming other applications for failing.

    --
    --

    (Remove 999 to reply to me)
     
    Leythos, Feb 19, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Bill Levinson

    Felix Tilley Guest

    In article <ZPaZb.12320$>, Thu,
    19 Feb 2004 15:32:25 -0700, "Bill Levinson"
    <> wrote:

    > I have been a strong advocate of Norton Internet Security but I can no
    > longer recommend this product due to (1) problems updating my virus
    > subscription and (2) problems with technical support.
    >
    > Norton Internet Security reminded me last week (Feb. 11) that I needed
    > to update my virus definition subscriptions. I went online and did so:


    I had trouble too on the Windows side of the box. After a few days, the
    problem went away. I suspect Symantek is having trouble. A few days
    ago, I had to turn off ZoneAlarm to get the download. I do not like
    turning off ZoneAlarm.

    --

    Felix Tilley
    Rank: Capt
    Fanatic Lartvocate
    FL# 555-LART
     
    Felix Tilley, Feb 20, 2004
    #3
  4. Bill Levinson

    vb Guest

    "Leythos" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <ZPaZb.12320$>,
    > says...
    > [snip]
    > > In any event, because of (1) Symantec's failure to deliver something for
    > > which I paid (a subscription update that I cannot install and that
    > > expires in a few days) and (2) Symantec's failure to respond to both
    > > written and telephone requests for assistance, in the latter case
    > > promising to do something and then just not doing it, I can no longer
    > > recommend Symantec products.

    >
    > I've done the online upgrade many times for clients and never had a
    > problem with it. Sooner or later everything gives you a problem and how
    > you deal with it determines its impact on you.
    >
    > > I'd also like to know how someone keeps installing components of a worm
    > > on my hard drive despite my having the latest virus updates.

    >
    > This could be the root of your problem - there are many virus programs
    > that delete the updates and disable AV products.
    >
    > > I'm not sure what to recommend instead as I was very unhappy with a
    > > McAfee hard drive cleanup product that they forgot to mention didn't
    > > work with Windows XP.

    >
    > Uninstall NAV, reinstall it, take the update and reinstall it, you're
    > done.
    >
    > > It's possible that Norton Internet Security may allow me to install the
    > > update within 30 days of my subscription's expiration. Nonetheless, due
    > > to the extreme difficulty in even getting to a page where I can send an
    > > inquiry, and then having them just not answer after an entire week, I
    > > can no longer recommend this company.

    >
    > If waiting a week for a call back is going to get you to black-list
    > companies you will have a long list.
    >
    > If your machine is compromised you have to fix that before you start
    > blaming other applications for failing.


    I started tith McAfee, and had nothing but troubles. when I bought my new
    computer, I installed Norton. Very satisfied, no problems at all.

    V.B.
     
    vb, Feb 20, 2004
    #4
  5. On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:32:25 +0000, Bill Levinson wrote:

    > I have been a strong advocate of Norton Internet Security but I can no
    > longer recommend this product due to (1) problems updating my virus
    > subscription and (2) problems with technical support.



    Bill: Try out F-prot (www.f-prot.com)

    $20/year for 5 machines at home and the updates don't stop working at the
    end fo the year, you just lose access to being able to download the latest
    version of the software.

    Frisk has been around a long time (pretty much invented heuristic
    scanning) and concentrates on writing AV software, not marketing it.
     
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Feb 20, 2004
    #5
  6. Bill Levinson

    Detox Guest

    "Bill Levinson" <> wrote in message
    news:ZPaZb.12320$...
    > I have been a strong advocate of Norton Internet Security but I can no
    > longer recommend this product due to (1) problems updating my virus
    > subscription and (2) problems with technical support.


    I've done the online subscription process several times and have never had
    any problem. Additionally, Norton has never let anything past including my
    experience at $work.

    Views as seen from my corner of the world.


    --
    Regards,
    Detox


    The correct pejorative is "fanboy".
     
    Detox, Feb 20, 2004
    #6
  7. vb wrote:

    > "Leythos" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>In article <ZPaZb.12320$>,
    >> says...
    >>[snip]
    >>
    >>>In any event, because of (1) Symantec's failure to deliver something for
    >>>which I paid (a subscription update that I cannot install and that
    >>>expires in a few days) and (2) Symantec's failure to respond to both
    >>>written and telephone requests for assistance, in the latter case
    >>>promising to do something and then just not doing it, I can no longer
    >>>recommend Symantec products.

    >>
    >>I've done the online upgrade many times for clients and never had a
    >>problem with it. Sooner or later everything gives you a problem and how
    >>you deal with it determines its impact on you.
    >>
    >>
    >>>I'd also like to know how someone keeps installing components of a worm
    >>>on my hard drive despite my having the latest virus updates.

    >>
    >>This could be the root of your problem - there are many virus programs
    >>that delete the updates and disable AV products.
    >>
    >>
    >>>I'm not sure what to recommend instead as I was very unhappy with a
    >>>McAfee hard drive cleanup product that they forgot to mention didn't
    >>>work with Windows XP.

    >>
    >>Uninstall NAV, reinstall it, take the update and reinstall it, you're
    >>done.
    >>
    >>
    >>>It's possible that Norton Internet Security may allow me to install the
    >>>update within 30 days of my subscription's expiration. Nonetheless, due
    >>>to the extreme difficulty in even getting to a page where I can send an
    >>>inquiry, and then having them just not answer after an entire week, I
    >>>can no longer recommend this company.

    >>
    >>If waiting a week for a call back is going to get you to black-list
    >>companies you will have a long list.
    >>
    >>If your machine is compromised you have to fix that before you start
    >>blaming other applications for failing.

    >
    >
    > I started tith McAfee, and had nothing but troubles. when I bought my new
    > computer, I installed Norton. Very satisfied, no problems at all.
    >
    > V.B.


    So was I, until last week.

    It's possible that Norton will let me enter the subscription code 30
    days before my subscription runs out and there will be no trouble. OTOH,
    it reminded me to update closer to 40 days before my subscription runs out.

    And the user-unfriendly help system, and failure to respond to inquiries
    and failure of the tech support person to do what he promised are all
    hard to excuse.

    --Bill
    http://www.stentorian.com/antispam/
     
    Bill Levinson, Feb 20, 2004
    #7
  8. In article <>,
    ldomain says...


    > I do not like
    > turning off ZoneAlarm.
    >
    >



    yea, considering they're soooo secure... LOL. root exploit recently
    noted on Zonealarm products: http://secunia.com/advisories/10921/



    --
    Colonel Flagg
    http://www.internetwarzone.org/

    Privacy at a click:
    http://www.cotse.net

    Q: How many Bill Gates does it take to change a lightbulb?
    A: None, he just defines Darkness? as the new industry standard..."

    "...I see stupid people."
     
    Colonel Flagg, Feb 20, 2004
    #8
  9. In article <ZPaZb.12320$>,
    says...

    >
    > I'd also like to know how someone keeps installing components of a worm
    > on my hard drive despite my having the latest virus updates.
    >


    because Norton sucks.


    http://www.f-secure.com
    http://www.f-prot.com
    http://www.grisoft.com/us/us_index.php





    --
    Colonel Flagg
    http://www.internetwarzone.org/

    Privacy at a click:
    http://www.cotse.net

    Q: How many Bill Gates does it take to change a lightbulb?
    A: None, he just defines Darkness? as the new industry standard..."

    "...I see stupid people."
     
    Colonel Flagg, Feb 20, 2004
    #9
  10. Bill Levinson

    B. Kildow Guest

    Bill Levinson wrote:
    > I have been a strong advocate of Norton Internet Security but I can no
    > longer recommend this product due to (1) problems updating my virus
    > subscription and (2) problems with technical support.
    >
    > Norton Internet Security reminded me last week (Feb. 11) that I needed
    > to update my virus definition subscriptions. I went online and did so:
    >
    > Internet Order Number: [not posted here for security]
    > Order Date: 20040211
    > Customer Name: William Levinson
    > Product: Internet security subscription service
    > Quantity: 1
    > Price: USD 29.95
    > Estimated Tax: USD 0.00
    > Total Charge: USD 29.95
    >
    > I was then given a code to enter into Norton Internet Security, and a
    > warning that the code expired in two weeks. Upon following directions,
    > however, I found that Norton AntiVirus (the tab in the software) would
    > not open a window to allow me to enter the code.
    >
    > I had to wade through a very large number of windows to even be able to
    > E-mail Symantec a request for technical support. Although an answer was
    > supposed to be given in something like three business days, I have yet
    > to receive a reply to my request for help. I did warn Symantec in this
    > letter that I would tell my credit card company to deny payment for the
    > update if I was unable to install it.


    (snippage)

    My apologies for a stupid question, but have you tried the online
    support pages? Not the contact, just the support info base? I had the
    same problem with my step-dad-in-law's upgrade/install. I don't
    remember what all I had to do (it was XP--I've tried to block it all
    from my mind), but I did find the solution on their support pages. I
    would've checked to try to find you an answer, but didn't know what you
    were running.

    BK
     
    B. Kildow, Feb 20, 2004
    #10
  11. Bill Levinson

    donutbandit Guest

    Colonel Flagg <> wrote in
    news::

    >> I'd also like to know how someone keeps installing components of a worm
    >> on my hard drive despite my having the latest virus updates.
    >>

    >
    > because Norton sucks.


    Norton.... Zone Alarm... my, how this group has fallen the past year. I
    remember when just mentioning that you run this crap would get you roasted
    to a crisp in here.
     
    donutbandit, Feb 20, 2004
    #11
  12. Bill Levinson

    Someone Else Guest

    Uncle StoatWarbler wrote:

    > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:32:25 +0000, Bill Levinson wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I have been a strong advocate of Norton Internet Security but I can no
    >>longer recommend this product due to (1) problems updating my virus
    >>subscription and (2) problems with technical support.

    >
    >
    >
    > Bill: Try out F-prot (www.f-prot.com)
    >
    > $20/year for 5 machines at home and the updates don't stop working at the
    > end fo the year, you just lose access to being able to download the latest
    > version of the software.
    >
    > Frisk has been around a long time (pretty much invented heuristic
    > scanning) and concentrates on writing AV software, not marketing it.


    100% endorsement for f-prot. Absolutely the best record I've
    heard of. But, you should get the DOS version:

    1) Works from the DOS prompt. E.g., if you can't even get
    windows to come up, you can still boot in pure DOS mode. It is
    slower in pure DOS, but it runs.

    2) Free for individual use.

    3) Updated as regularly as the for-$ versions (as in constantly).

    4) They actually answer email questions (e.g., 'Is this a false
    alarm?'), even if you're using the free version. In my
    experience, within 24 hours.

    David

    --
    To make invalid valid, reverse the letters
     
    Someone Else, Feb 20, 2004
    #12
  13. "Colonel Flagg" <>
    wrote in message news:...
    > In article

    <ZPaZb.12320$>,
    > says...
    >
    > >
    > > I'd also like to know how someone keeps installing components of

    a worm
    > > on my hard drive despite my having the latest virus updates.
    > >

    >
    > because Norton sucks.
    >
    >
    > http://www.f-secure.com
    > http://www.f-prot.com
    > http://www.grisoft.com/us/us_index.php


    There are many $$ at the checkstand AV products with "higher
    vacuum" than Norton; but why bother ??

    Flagg's freebie list is good but add
    http://www.avast.com/i_idt_226.html

    It's also free; just not as well-known .
     
    R. Asby Dragon, Feb 20, 2004
    #13
  14. Bill Levinson

    Roger Bryant Guest

    Thusly spoke the voices from beneath Bill Levinson's tin-foil hat on
    2/19/2004 2:32 PM:

    >
    > --Bill
    > http://www.stentorian.com/antispam/
    >
    >

    I used to use Norton for the past 4 years (since I got my computer).
    Very recently, when I did a reformat/reinstall of Windows, I decided to
    try an alternative. Right now I'm using AVG 6 (available a grisoft.com)
    and Kerio personal firewall. AVG is updated almost daily, and it picks
    upp stuff that Norton never detected. Kerio is a different interface
    from Norton, but has the same capabilities (and you can mention here
    without getting flamed for plugging symantec). Oh, and they're both *free*.

    --
    Test, Jamie, Test.
    Remove nospam. to email.
     
    Roger Bryant, Feb 20, 2004
    #14
  15. Bill Levinson

    Ian.H Guest

    On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:32:25 +0000, Bill Levinson wrote:

    > I have been a strong advocate of Norton Internet Security but I can no
    > longer recommend this product due to (1) problems updating my virus
    > subscription and (2) problems with technical support.



    If you like poor performance, spam via shills, bloated software.. stupid
    windoze XP style gfx.. norton is "great" (hah) I guess.

    For anyone even remotely serious about their box will just laugh at Norton
    and move along on their merry way.



    Regards,

    Ian

    --
    Ian.H
    digiServ Network
    London, UK
    http://digiserv.net/
     
    Ian.H, Feb 20, 2004
    #15
  16. Bill Levinson

    Ian.H Guest

    On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:17:56 -0500, Colonel Flagg wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > ldomain says...
    >
    >
    >> I do not like
    >> turning off ZoneAlarm.



    > yea, considering they're soooo secure... LOL. root exploit recently noted
    > on Zonealarm products: http://secunia.com/advisories/10921/



    ZA has known to be a joke application for some years now.. why people
    still use it (you can actually use it?) is beyond me. Oh yeah, it's free..
    and that seems to be all that some think about.



    Regards,

    Ian

    --
    Ian.H
    digiServ Network
    London, UK
    http://digiserv.net/
     
    Ian.H, Feb 20, 2004
    #16
  17. Bill Levinson

    Ian.H Guest

    On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:48:05 +0000, Someone Else wrote:

    >> Bill: Try out F-prot (www.f-prot.com)
    >>
    >> $20/year for 5 machines at home and the updates don't stop working at
    >> the end fo the year, you just lose access to being able to download the
    >> latest version of the software.
    >>
    >> Frisk has been around a long time (pretty much invented heuristic
    >> scanning) and concentrates on writing AV software, not marketing it.

    >
    > 100% endorsement for f-prot. Absolutely the best record I've heard of.



    Agreed.. used here since I dropped Doc Solly's back on DOS sometime. Now
    happily runs on my 2K box (when it's up and running) and both FreeBSD
    boxes.


    > But, you should get the DOS version:



    No!


    >
    > 1) Works from the DOS prompt. E.g., if you can't even get windows to come
    > up, you can still boot in pure DOS mode. It is slower in pure DOS, but it
    > runs.



    The DOS version won't handle NTFS partitions properly.

    Last I checked, my 2K box didn't come with _any_ kind of "real DOS" at all.


    > 2) Free for individual use.



    DOS version only.


    > 3) Updated as regularly as the for-$ versions (as in constantly).
    >
    > 4) They actually answer email questions (e.g., 'Is this a false alarm?'),
    > even if you're using the free version. In my experience, within 24 hours.



    And the founder can be contacted direct via Usenet too, which is great for
    "live" info so to speak =)


    If anyone's looking at getting it.. get the windoze version (assuming
    you're aiming for a win box) as this comes with fpcmd.exe too, which
    will scan NTFS partitions from the cmdline.



    Regards,

    Ian

    --
    Ian.H
    digiServ Network
    London, UK
    http://digiserv.net/
     
    Ian.H, Feb 20, 2004
    #17
  18. Bill Levinson

    Ian.H Guest

    On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:19:38 -0500, Colonel Flagg wrote:

    > In article <ZPaZb.12320$>,
    > says...
    >
    >
    >> I'd also like to know how someone keeps installing components of a worm
    >> on my hard drive despite my having the latest virus updates.
    >>
    >>

    > because Norton sucks.
    >
    >
    > http://www.f-secure.com
    > http://www.f-prot.com


    > http://www.grisoft.com/us/us_index.php



    LOL! Contradiction?

    "Norton sucks" and then you provide a grisoft link!?

    That's like saying I'm anti-violence.. just before I sit down on the
    detonator ;)

    But Norton is crap, yes.



    Regards,

    Ian

    --
    Ian.H
    digiServ Network
    London, UK
    http://digiserv.net/
     
    Ian.H, Feb 20, 2004
    #18
  19. Bill Levinson

    Dick Cardy Guest

    "Bill Levinson" <> wrote in message
    news:ZPaZb.12320$...
    > I have been a strong advocate of Norton Internet Security but I can no
    > longer recommend this product due to (1) problems updating my virus
    > subscription and (2) problems with technical support.
    >

    Bill

    Try AVG.
    I have stopped using NAV because I have seen 2 instances of a computer that
    NAV
    says is clean and the computers are infected

    Dick
     
    Dick Cardy, Feb 20, 2004
    #19
  20. Bill Levinson

    Tom Betz Guest

    Quoth "Ian.H" <> in
    news:p:

    >
    > If you like poor performance, spam via shills, bloated software.. stupid
    > windoze XP style gfx.. norton is "great" (hah) I guess.


    The mistake people make is buying Norton's consumer-grade bloatware.

    Their Corporate antivirus product does a superb job, and has a very small
    footprint. I've found only one or two Win 98 machines where it has had any
    problem, and those have had to do with conflicts from poorly-written video
    drivers.

    --
    "I am afeard there are few die well that die in a battle; for how can they
    charitably dispose of anything when blood is their argument? Now, if these
    men do not die well, it will be a black matter for the King that led them
    to it; who to disobey were against all proportion of subjection." - W.S.
     
    Tom Betz, Feb 20, 2004
    #20
    1. Advertising

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