rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in Kodak Z712?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by fgnievinski@terra.com.br, Dec 21, 2007.

  1. Guest

    Hi.

    Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
    camera, please?
    It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
    It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
    expensive.

    I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
    and cheaper.

    Thanks,
    Felipe.
     
    , Dec 21, 2007
    #1
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  2. Ted Edwards Guest

    Re: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in KodakZ712?

    wrote:
    > Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
    > camera, please?
    > It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
    > It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
    > expensive.
    >
    > I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
    > and cheaper.


    I do not know that camera but I have used and am using NiMH AA cells in
    a Kodak, a Fuji and now a Canon digital camera as well as my GPS and AAA
    cells in several LED flashlights with no problems.

    Note that several companies including Sanyo and Maaha are selling the
    new low self discharge cells. A rather informative vendor is
    http://thomasdistributing.com/

    Ted
     
    Ted Edwards, Dec 21, 2007
    #2
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  3. Guest

    Re: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in KodakZ712?

    On Dec 21, 2:08 pm, Ted Edwards <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
    > > camera, please?
    > > It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
    > > It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
    > > expensive.

    >
    > > I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
    > > and cheaper.

    >
    > I do not know that camera but I have used and am using NiMH AA cells in
    > a Kodak, a Fuji and now a Canon digital camera as well as my GPS and AAA
    > cells in several LED flashlights with no problems.
    >

    I assume that lithium is the recommended battery type for the devices
    you mention, and that you tried NiMH is spite of that recommendation,
    right?
    Kodak states that only lithium batteries can be used in my camera. I
    wonder if I could damage the camera trying NiMH on it.

    Thanks,
    Felipe.
     
    , Dec 21, 2007
    #3
  4. Raoul Guest

    On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:13:53 -0800 (PST), ""
    <> wrote:

    >Hi.
    >
    >Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
    >camera, please?
    >It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
    >It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
    >expensive.
    >
    >I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
    >and cheaper.
    >
    >Thanks,
    >Felipe.



    I use AA NiMH batteries in my Z712. They work fine, but I would not
    use them as a primary power source. Get a KLIC-8000 or one of the less
    expensive imitations and save the AAs for those days when you are
    shooting a lot of photos. On a recent trip to Disney World, the
    KLIC-8000 copy I used lasted for at least half the day. I then went
    through 4 pairs of AA cells during the rest of the day.

    If you already own some AA batteries, use them. But don't spend money
    on them instead of buying a Li-Ion battery.
     
    Raoul, Dec 21, 2007
    #4
  5. Ted Edwards Guest

    Re: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in KodakZ712?

    wrote:
    > I assume that lithium is the recommended battery type for the devices
    > you mention, and that you tried NiMH is spite of that recommendation,
    > right?


    Non rechargeable Lithium cells are recommended for my GPS for longer run
    times and better performance at low temperatures. Canon recommend _not_
    to use ordinary Alkalines.

    Some recommend Li, some don't

    > Kodak states that only lithium batteries can be used in my camera. I
    > wonder if I could damage the camera trying NiMH on it.


    I would be truly amazed if NiMH caused a problem. Kodak (and most other
    digital camera manufacturers) recommend against using Alkaline batteries
    because they do not do well when discharged for short times at high
    currents. NiMH cells do not have that problem.

    If it were me, I would try them.

    Ted
     
    Ted Edwards, Dec 21, 2007
    #5
  6. Guest

    On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:13:53 -0800 (PST), ""
    <> wrote:

    >Hi.
    >
    >Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
    >camera, please?
    >It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
    >It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
    >expensive.
    >
    >I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
    >and cheaper.
    >
    >Thanks,
    >Felipe.


    NIMH compared to Lithium

    The problem is that the cameras low voltage indicator and shut
    down are designed for the higher voltage lithium's that pretty much
    maintain a higher voltage until the are mostly depleted.

    The NIMH battery starts at a lower voltage. That lower voltage should
    be the low voltage warning for the lithium's. If you do use the NIMH
    they would have to be freshly charged so that they would be above
    the 1.25 nominal voltage. The best you could expect is to see is the
    low voltage indicator come on soon and the camera shut down before the
    capacity of the NIMH battery is depleted.

    Other Kodak cameras would have a switch so that the calibration
    of the voltage sensor/shutdown could be selected between
    Alkaline,Lithium / NIMH
     
    , Dec 22, 2007
    #6
  7. Ron Hunter Guest

    Re: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in KodakZ712?

    wrote:
    > Hi.
    >
    > Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
    > camera, please?
    > It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
    > It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
    > expensive.
    >
    > I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
    > and cheaper.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Felipe.


    The lithium AA cells provide about 3.5 volts if fully charged. Two NiMh
    batteries only provide 2.4 volts. This might, or might not, be
    sufficient. You might try consulting Kodak directly.
     
    Ron Hunter, Dec 22, 2007
    #7
  8. Ron Hunter Guest

    Re: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in KodakZ712?

    wrote:
    > On Dec 21, 2:08 pm, Ted Edwards <> wrote:
    >> wrote:
    >>> Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
    >>> camera, please?
    >>> It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
    >>> It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
    >>> expensive.
    >>> I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
    >>> and cheaper.

    >> I do not know that camera but I have used and am using NiMH AA cells in
    >> a Kodak, a Fuji and now a Canon digital camera as well as my GPS and AAA
    >> cells in several LED flashlights with no problems.
    >>

    > I assume that lithium is the recommended battery type for the devices
    > you mention, and that you tried NiMH is spite of that recommendation,
    > right?
    > Kodak states that only lithium batteries can be used in my camera. I
    > wonder if I could damage the camera trying NiMH on it.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Felipe.


    Probably not, but it might just refuse to function on the lower voltage.
     
    Ron Hunter, Dec 22, 2007
    #8
  9. Guest

    Re: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in KodakZ712?

    Thanks a lot for the info guys, especially Raoul and Ted. I'm going to
    use the NiMH AA I already have while I look for a cheaper KLIC-8000
    imitation -- perhaps on boxing day. ;)

    Just for the record, this is the official response from Kodak. It's a
    pitty that such otherwise respected company throws in what seems pure
    FUD tactic:
    > No, you may not use any "rechargeable AA NiMH
    > batteries" with your camera since this is not a
    > recommended battery type. You may only use the
    > Kodak Lithium Digital Camera Battery CRV3 and the
    > Kodak Li-Ion Rechargeable Digital Camera Battery
    > KLIC-8000.
    >> the manual says the Z712 can take AA lithium
    >> batteries. Can I use rechargable AA NiMH batteries
    >> in my z712? Even if they last less than the lithium
    >> batteries, at least they are rechargable.


    Felipe.
     
    , Dec 22, 2007
    #9
  10. You are wasting money if you are not using rechargeable batteries. Try to
    buy one with the highest power number shown in mAh (0.001 Ampere/hour).
    Check eBay. AA batteries are these days at 2700 mAh and they last very long.
    Buy two sets; one in camera and the other set in bag to use when needed.
    Charge them only when necessary. Battery usually will not take more than
    1000 charges per their life. They should last about 3 years when charges
    every 3rd day. It will be significantly less when you plug it in every
    occasion like phone or PDA into charger.
    I have many cameras and I never ever used non-rechargeable batteries. I have
    over 22,000 pictures in my albums.
    Jan
    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi.
    >
    > Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
    > camera, please?
    > It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
    > It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
    > expensive.
    >
    > I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
    > and cheaper.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Felipe.
     
    Jan Nademlejnsky, Dec 22, 2007
    #10
  11. Ron Hunter Guest

    Re: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in KodakZ712?

    wrote:
    > Thanks a lot for the info guys, especially Raoul and Ted. I'm going to
    > use the NiMH AA I already have while I look for a cheaper KLIC-8000
    > imitation -- perhaps on boxing day. ;)
    >
    > Just for the record, this is the official response from Kodak. It's a
    > pitty that such otherwise respected company throws in what seems pure
    > FUD tactic:
    >> No, you may not use any "rechargeable AA NiMH
    >> batteries" with your camera since this is not a
    >> recommended battery type. You may only use the
    >> Kodak Lithium Digital Camera Battery CRV3 and the
    >> Kodak Li-Ion Rechargeable Digital Camera Battery
    >> KLIC-8000.
    >>> the manual says the Z712 can take AA lithium
    >>> batteries. Can I use rechargable AA NiMH batteries
    >>> in my z712? Even if they last less than the lithium
    >>> batteries, at least they are rechargable.

    >
    > Felipe.


    Generally a company recommends the batteries that will give the best
    functional characteristics for the camera, to avoid problems. Let us
    know how your experiment goes. I rather suspect that a fully charged
    NiMH battery set will give almost immediate 'low battery' indications.
     
    Ron Hunter, Dec 22, 2007
    #11
  12. ray Guest

    On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:13:53 -0800, wrote:

    > Hi.
    >
    > Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
    > camera, please?
    > It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
    > It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
    > expensive.
    >
    > I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
    > and cheaper.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Felipe.


    You may get some useful information from batterdata.com.
     
    ray, Dec 22, 2007
    #12
  13. Ted Edwards Guest

    Re: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in KodakZ712?

    Ron Hunter wrote:
    > Generally a company recommends the batteries that will give the best
    > functional characteristics for the camera, to avoid problems. Let us
    > know how your experiment goes. I rather suspect that a fully charged
    > NiMH battery set will give almost immediate 'low battery' indications.


    Only if Kodak are willing to go so far as to try to force their
    customers to buy their overpriced Lithium batteries. From their web
    site, they want $6.99 for CRV3 whereas Thomas Distributing want $9.87
    for _four_ MAHA low self discharge AA NiMH cells that will last for
    several hundred charge/discharge cycles. Of course you will have to buy
    a charger. A particularly cost effective one is the MAHA MH-C401FS for
    $39.97 from Thomas Distributing. Note that there are higher Amp-hour
    capacity cells but the low self discharge types are reputed to have a
    lower internal resistance. This is a Good Thing.
    <
    http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=122_104_106&products_id=1020&SP_id=68
    >


    If you want to see the discharge curve for Kodak's CRV3, go to the
    bottom right hand corner of
    <
    http://www.kodak.com/eknec/documents/fd/0900688a8019d7fd/KCRV3.pdf
    >

    An excellent comparison between alkaline and NiMH is at
    < http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/1.5_vs_1.2_Volt_Batteries.pdf >
    He thoroughly debunks the lower voltage myth.

    Ted
     
    Ted Edwards, Dec 22, 2007
    #13
  14. Paul Allen Guest

    Re: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in KodakZ712?

    On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:13:53 -0800 (PST)
    "" <> wrote:

    > Hi.
    >
    > Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
    > camera, please?
    > It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
    > It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
    > expensive.
    >
    > I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
    > and cheaper.


    The KLIC-8000 is a rechargeable Li-ion battery. A casual search found
    copies going for between $10 and $40. NiMH batteries will probably
    work, but their lower nominal voltage might fool the camera into
    thinking they're depleted early.

    This is a no-brainer. Get a couple KLIC-8000 knock-offs and a charger,
    and be happy.

    Paul Allen
     
    Paul Allen, Dec 22, 2007
    #14
  15. Guest

    Re: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in KodakZ712?

    On Dec 22, 6:22 pm, Paul Allen <>
    wrote:
    > On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:13:53 -0800 (PST)
    >
    > "" <> wrote:
    > > Hi.

    >
    > > Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
    > > camera, please?
    > > It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
    > > It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
    > > expensive.

    >
    > > I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
    > > and cheaper.

    >
    > The KLIC-8000 is a rechargeable Li-ion battery. A casual search found
    > copies going for between $10 and $40. NiMH batteries will probably
    > work, but their lower nominal voltage might fool the camera into
    > thinking they're depleted early.
    >
    > This is a no-brainer. Get a couple KLIC-8000 knock-offs and a charger,
    > and be happy.
    >

    That will raise the price of an usable camera by 30%!!!
    I paid $179.99+8.5%=$195.29 for the Z712; a cheap charger+4 AA NiMH
    costs $20; that comes to a total of $215.29.
    Now if you go the Kodak way, you get one KLIC-8000 battery for $40
    plus another $40 for a charger; total of $275.29.
    Bear that in mind, potential buyers!

    Felipe.
     
    , Dec 22, 2007
    #15
  16. Guest


    >He thoroughly debunks the lower voltage myth.
    >
    >Ted


    Your post really doesn't apply to the camera in question.

    This camera recommends lithium cells only which outperform
    the alkaline's you are comparing to NIMH.

    This link shows just how much better a lithium performs than alkaline
    http://www.humanedgetech.com/manuals/power/energizerspecs.pdf

    You can't debunk the low voltage myth of the NIMH if the cameras
    electronics are set to shut down at a lithium's low voltage point
    rather than the NIMH batteries low voltage point.
     
    , Dec 23, 2007
    #16
  17. Ron Hunter Guest

    Re: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in KodakZ712?

    Ted Edwards wrote:
    > Ron Hunter wrote:
    >> Generally a company recommends the batteries that will give the best
    >> functional characteristics for the camera, to avoid problems. Let us
    >> know how your experiment goes. I rather suspect that a fully charged
    >> NiMH battery set will give almost immediate 'low battery' indications.

    >
    > Only if Kodak are willing to go so far as to try to force their
    > customers to buy their overpriced Lithium batteries. From their web
    > site, they want $6.99 for CRV3 whereas Thomas Distributing want $9.87
    > for _four_ MAHA low self discharge AA NiMH cells that will last for
    > several hundred charge/discharge cycles. Of course you will have to buy
    > a charger. A particularly cost effective one is the MAHA MH-C401FS for
    > $39.97 from Thomas Distributing. Note that there are higher Amp-hour
    > capacity cells but the low self discharge types are reputed to have a
    > lower internal resistance. This is a Good Thing.
    > <
    > http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=122_104_106&products_id=1020&SP_id=68
    > >

    >
    > If you want to see the discharge curve for Kodak's CRV3, go to the
    > bottom right hand corner of
    > <
    > http://www.kodak.com/eknec/documents/fd/0900688a8019d7fd/KCRV3.pdf
    > >

    > An excellent comparison between alkaline and NiMH is at
    > < http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/1.5_vs_1.2_Volt_Batteries.pdf >
    > He thoroughly debunks the lower voltage myth.
    >
    > Ted


    Lower voltage of NiMH batteries is NO MYTH. The basic chemical
    properties of the battery determine this, and the voltage (nominal) for
    a NiMH battery is 1.24V. For an alkaline, 1.6 volts, and for a
    disposable lithium, 1.7 volts. If the 'cutoff' voltage in the camera is
    set for 1.25 volts, then a freshly charged NiMH battery will reach that
    cutoff voltage in just a few uses. NOT a good situation.
    Bottom line, use the battery recommended by the camera manufacturer, or
    a replacement (third party) battery with the SAME, or better, voltage,
    and current ratings.
     
    Ron Hunter, Dec 23, 2007
    #17
  18. Mark B. Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks a lot for the info guys, especially Raoul and Ted. I'm going to
    > use the NiMH AA I already have while I look for a cheaper KLIC-8000
    > imitation -- perhaps on boxing day. ;)
    >
    > Just for the record, this is the official response from Kodak. It's a
    > pitty that such otherwise respected company throws in what seems pure
    > FUD tactic:
    >> No, you may not use any "rechargeable AA NiMH
    >> batteries" with your camera since this is not a
    >> recommended battery type. You may only use the
    >> Kodak Lithium Digital Camera Battery CRV3 and the
    >> Kodak Li-Ion Rechargeable Digital Camera Battery
    >> KLIC-8000.
    >>> the manual says the Z712 can take AA lithium
    >>> batteries. Can I use rechargable AA NiMH batteries
    >>> in my z712? Even if they last less than the lithium
    >>> batteries, at least they are rechargable.

    >
    > Felipe.



    Gosh, imagine that - Kodak only recommends Kodak branded batteries. Yeah,
    I'd definitely try the NiMH.

    Mark
     
    Mark B., Dec 23, 2007
    #18
  19. Guest


    >Gosh, imagine that - Kodak only recommends Kodak branded batteries. Yeah,
    >I'd definitely try the NiMH.
    >
    >Mark
    >

    Before jumping on the conspiracy wagon maybe you should read
    the manual.
     
    , Dec 23, 2007
    #19
  20. Ted Edwards Guest

    Re: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in KodakZ712?

    Ron Hunter wrote:

    > Lower voltage of NiMH batteries is NO MYTH. The basic chemical
    > properties of the battery determine this, and the voltage (nominal) for
    > a NiMH battery is 1.24V. For an alkaline, 1.6 volts, and for a
    > disposable lithium, 1.7 volts.


    I guess you didn't read the referenced articles. e.g. You quote 1.6v
    for alkaline. I have yet to measure over 1.56V (Fluke DVM) on a new
    open circuit alkaline and that is way high under load at the half life
    point.

    My old GPS-II+ would let me read the actual battery voltage while the
    unit was operating. It made it rather easy to observe the voltage vs.
    operating time for various chemistries, particularly alkaline vs. NiMH.

    Ted
     
    Ted Edwards, Dec 23, 2007
    #20
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