Rebel XT: CreativePro review doesn't add much, but ...

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Frank ess, Apr 13, 2005.

  1. Frank  ess

    Frank ess Guest

    Frank ess, Apr 13, 2005
    #1
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  2. Frank  ess

    RichA Guest

    On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:32:25 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
    wrote:

    >... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to a
    >comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...
    >
    >http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/22785.html?cprose=daily


    Obviously, Canon tried to position lightness as an attribute,
    something that has a limit, in a camera. All a hyperlight camera
    gets you is insufficient grip area and lots of camera shake
    that a heavier camera helps damp out.
    At least the author mentioned this.
    -Rich
    RichA, Apr 14, 2005
    #2
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  3. Frank  ess

    Ron Hunter Guest

    RichA wrote:
    > On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:32:25 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to a
    >>comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...
    >>
    >>http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/22785.html?cprose=daily

    >
    >
    > Obviously, Canon tried to position lightness as an attribute,
    > something that has a limit, in a camera. All a hyperlight camera
    > gets you is insufficient grip area and lots of camera shake
    > that a heavier camera helps damp out.
    > At least the author mentioned this.
    > -Rich


    Humm. So the ideal camera would weigh in at 20 lbs., and be the size of
    a breadbox? Somehow I doubt I would carry one like that.


    --
    Ron Hunter
    Ron Hunter, Apr 14, 2005
    #3
  4. Frank  ess

    Alan Browne Guest

    RichA wrote:

    > On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:32:25 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to a
    >>comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...
    >>
    >>http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/22785.html?cprose=daily

    >
    >
    > Obviously, Canon tried to position lightness as an attribute,
    > something that has a limit, in a camera. All a hyperlight camera
    > gets you is insufficient grip area and lots of camera shake
    > that a heavier camera helps damp out.



    A heavier camera will tire you out faster making control more difficult.
    A lighter camera, properly held, will not shake in your hands unless
    you have other motor control problems.

    OTOH, there are monopods.


    --
    -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
    -- slr-systems FAQ project: http://tinyurl.com/6m9aw
    -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
    -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
    Alan Browne, Apr 14, 2005
    #4
  5. In article <>,
    RichA <> wrote:

    > On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:32:25 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to a
    > >comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...
    > >
    > >http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/22785.html?cprose=daily

    >
    > Obviously, Canon tried to position lightness as an attribute,
    > something that has a limit, in a camera. All a hyperlight camera
    > gets you is insufficient grip area and lots of camera shake
    > that a heavier camera helps damp out.
    > At least the author mentioned this.
    > -Rich


    Angular momentum is a lot more important than total weight. You want
    the weight at the edges, not the center.

    I doubt there's much difference between the XT and 20D as far as angular
    momentum goes. The quality of your grip on the camera would matter much
    more. You have to try holding them.

    The 10D is a camera where I'd say that weight is a disadvantage. My
    wrist would be in spasms if I had to carry that brick and a lens for a
    few hours.
    Kevin McMurtrie, Apr 15, 2005
    #5
  6. Frank  ess

    ASAAR Guest

    On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:59:04 -0700, Kevin McMurtrie wrote:

    > Angular momentum is a lot more important than total weight.
    > You want the weight at the edges, not the center.


    I know what you mean, but I think that's the wrong term. If the
    camera isn't rotating it has no angular momentum. Sorry, but I
    don't recall what the proper term is. Possibly moment of inertia?
    Or some other term coined with "moment". Placing more of the weight
    at the edges inhibits changes in momentum. For the reason you
    mention I always thought the design of many "pro" cameras would have
    been more functional if some of their excessive height was traded
    for a bit more width.
    ASAAR, Apr 16, 2005
    #6
  7. Frank  ess

    Frank ess Guest

    ASAAR wrote:
    > On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:59:04 -0700, Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
    >
    >> Angular momentum is a lot more important than total weight.
    >> You want the weight at the edges, not the center.

    >
    > I know what you mean, but I think that's the wrong term. If the
    > camera isn't rotating it has no angular momentum. Sorry, but I
    > don't recall what the proper term is. Possibly moment of inertia?
    > Or some other term coined with "moment". Placing more of the weight
    > at the edges inhibits changes in momentum. For the reason you
    > mention I always thought the design of many "pro" cameras would have
    > been more functional if some of their excessive height was traded
    > for a bit more width.


    "Polar moment of inertia"?
    http://www.k12.nf.ca/gc/Staff/Teachers/Crummey/fiero/polarmoment.htm

    Seems to me a light camera on a heavy lens is more likely to rotate
    around some locus in the lens; a heavy-heavy camera-lens is likely to
    rotate around the center of the combination; a light-light is more
    likely to respond to small inputs than either of the preceding.

    I think the determining characteristic is mass. Heavier is harder to
    start and stop, more stable static and in motion. The "balance" is
    pretty much secondary.

    Of course if you clamp that sucker to your forehead with your eye to the
    viewfinder, the system is now quite a bit more stable and complex. It
    may be that technique can compensate for low mass.


    --
    Frank ess
    Frank ess, Apr 16, 2005
    #7
  8. Frank  ess

    ASAAR Guest

    On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:15:42 -0700, Frank ess wrote:

    > "Polar moment of inertia"?
    > http://www.k12.nf.ca/gc/Staff/Teachers/Crummey/fiero/polarmoment.htm


    Thanks. Haven't checked it out yet but that sounds right.


    > Seems to me a light camera on a heavy lens is more likely to rotate
    > around some locus in the lens; a heavy-heavy camera-lens is likely to
    > rotate around the center of the combination; a light-light is more
    > likely to respond to small inputs than either of the preceding.
    >
    > I think the determining characteristic is mass. Heavier is harder to
    > start and stop, more stable static and in motion. The "balance" is
    > pretty much secondary.


    Yes, greater mass is useful, as is the case with the heavy barrels
    used on target rifles. But the distribution of mass also plays a
    part. As Kevin pointed out, distributing it more towards the
    periphery than the center can be beneficial in that it would make
    the camera more resistant to rotational forces. That was my point
    about making the camera wider rather than taller, because I think
    (and may be mistaken) that there would be greater forces trying to
    rotate the camera about a vertical axis than those trying to rotate
    the camera around a horizontal axis, in effect making the camera's
    lens dive towards the ground like a dowsing rod.


    > Of course if you clamp that sucker to your forehead with your eye to the
    > viewfinder, the system is now quite a bit more stable and complex. It
    > may be that technique can compensate for low mass.


    When I first read "clamp" I took it too literally, and the first
    picture that popped into my mind was of some young space cadet
    having a camera clamped to his head like some of those small
    headband mounted flashlights. And getting around from one picture
    location to the next on a pogo stick. That's a technique that needs
    more than mere compensation. :)
    ASAAR, Apr 16, 2005
    #8
  9. Frank  ess

    G.T. Guest

    "RichA" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:32:25 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to a
    > >comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...
    > >
    > >http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/22785.html?cprose=daily

    >
    > Obviously, Canon tried to position lightness as an attribute,
    > something that has a limit, in a camera. All a hyperlight camera
    > gets you is insufficient grip area and lots of camera shake
    > that a heavier camera helps damp out.
    > At least the author mentioned this.


    So that's all a hyperlight camera gets you? I can think of at least one
    major benefit of a lighter camera and I think I'm starting to learn to not
    bother reading your posts. If I need a heavier camera I can always throw on
    the battery grip.

    Greg
    G.T., Apr 17, 2005
    #9
  10. Frank  ess

    Tony Guest

    Apparently some people are steadier if they are carrying an anvil. I think
    they would probably be steadier yet if they left the anvil at home along
    with their pint of Jack Daniels.

    --
    http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
    home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
    The Improved Links Pages are at
    http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
    A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
    http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html

    "G.T." <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "RichA" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:32:25 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > >... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to a
    > > >comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...
    > > >
    > > >http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/22785.html?cprose=daily

    > >
    > > Obviously, Canon tried to position lightness as an attribute,
    > > something that has a limit, in a camera. All a hyperlight camera
    > > gets you is insufficient grip area and lots of camera shake
    > > that a heavier camera helps damp out.
    > > At least the author mentioned this.

    >
    > So that's all a hyperlight camera gets you? I can think of at least one
    > major benefit of a lighter camera and I think I'm starting to learn to not
    > bother reading your posts. If I need a heavier camera I can always throw

    on
    > the battery grip.
    >
    > Greg
    >
    >
    Tony, Apr 17, 2005
    #10
  11. Frank  ess

    RichA Guest

    On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:12:04 -0700, "G.T." <>
    wrote:

    >
    >"RichA" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:32:25 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to a
    >> >comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...
    >> >
    >> >http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/22785.html?cprose=daily

    >>
    >> Obviously, Canon tried to position lightness as an attribute,
    >> something that has a limit, in a camera. All a hyperlight camera
    >> gets you is insufficient grip area and lots of camera shake
    >> that a heavier camera helps damp out.
    >> At least the author mentioned this.

    >
    >So that's all a hyperlight camera gets you? I can think of at least one
    >major benefit of a lighter camera and I think I'm starting to learn to not
    >bother reading your posts. If I need a heavier camera I can always throw on
    >the battery grip.
    >
    >Greg
    >


    If someone really wants the benefit of a light camera, they'd
    do well to consider one of those pocketable compacts from Canon
    like the Elf. Otherwise, stop complaining about weight and do
    something to build up your strength.
    -Rich
    RichA, Apr 18, 2005
    #11
  12. "RichA" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:32:25 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to a
    >>comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...
    >>
    >>http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/22785.html?cprose=daily

    >
    > Obviously, Canon tried to position lightness as an attribute,
    > something that has a limit, in a camera. All a hyperlight camera
    > gets you is insufficient grip area and lots of camera shake
    > that a heavier camera helps damp out.
    > At least the author mentioned this.
    > -Rich


    Particularly as many people seem happy to use 1 +/- 0.3 Kg zoom lenses, I
    would think this makes the camera mass secondary.


    Lester
    Lester Wareham, Apr 18, 2005
    #12
  13. Frank  ess

    G.T. Guest

    "RichA" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:12:04 -0700, "G.T." <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"RichA" <> wrote in message
    > >news:...
    > >> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:32:25 -0700, "Frank ess" <>
    > >> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >... in the penultimate paragraph a link to the author's site leads to

    a
    > >> >comparison of the XT and the 20D, for those who are vacillating ...
    > >> >
    > >> >http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/22785.html?cprose=daily
    > >>
    > >> Obviously, Canon tried to position lightness as an attribute,
    > >> something that has a limit, in a camera. All a hyperlight camera
    > >> gets you is insufficient grip area and lots of camera shake
    > >> that a heavier camera helps damp out.
    > >> At least the author mentioned this.

    > >
    > >So that's all a hyperlight camera gets you? I can think of at least one
    > >major benefit of a lighter camera and I think I'm starting to learn to

    not
    > >bother reading your posts. If I need a heavier camera I can always throw

    on
    > >the battery grip.
    > >
    > >Greg
    > >

    >
    > If someone really wants the benefit of a light camera, they'd
    > do well to consider one of those pocketable compacts from Canon
    > like the Elf. Otherwise, stop complaining about weight and do
    > something to build up your strength.


    Spoken like someone who has never walked farther than the distance from the
    barcalounger to the frigidaire.

    Greg
    G.T., Apr 20, 2005
    #13
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