Re: Will MS blow up the planet...looks close !

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by William Lyon McKenzie, Aug 22, 2003.

  1. Who is this allegedly said:

    > Welcome to 2003.
    >
    > We suggest Microsoft actually start backing up their promise of
    > Trustworthy Computing.


    Since they made the promise, it has arguably become worse.
     
    William Lyon McKenzie, Aug 22, 2003
    #1
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  2. On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:42:52 +1200, William Lyon McKenzie
    <> wrote:


    >> We suggest Microsoft actually start backing up their promise of
    >> Trustworthy Computing.

    >
    >Since they made the promise, it has arguably become worse.
    >
    >

    Microsofts so called trustworthy computing in its evil incarnation
    as Palladium is designed to make you the untrusted person in your own
    computer.


    Do you really want that?

    Patrick
     
    Patrick FitzGerald, Aug 22, 2003
    #2
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  3. Patrick FitzGerald allegedly said:

    > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:42:52 +1200, William Lyon McKenzie
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>> We suggest Microsoft actually start backing up their promise of
    >>> Trustworthy Computing.

    >>
    >>Since they made the promise, it has arguably become worse.
    >>
    >>

    > Microsofts so called trustworthy computing in its evil incarnation
    > as Palladium is designed to make you the untrusted person in your own
    > computer.
    >
    > Do you really want that?


    You're talking to a Linux user.... :)
     
    William Lyon McKenzie, Aug 22, 2003
    #3
  4. "William Lyon McKenzie" <> wrote in message
    news:0Oc1b.13051$...
    > Who is this allegedly said:
    >
    > > Welcome to 2003.
    > >
    > > We suggest Microsoft actually start backing up their promise of
    > > Trustworthy Computing.

    >
    > Since they made the promise, it has arguably become worse.
    >
    >

    No it hasn't Steve.
    It has stayed about the same, people still have about the same level of
    trust in Microsoft.
    Its a policy, not a promise
     
    Howard Johnson, Aug 22, 2003
    #4
  5. Mainlander allegedly said:

    > In article <0Oc1b.13051$>,
    > says...
    >> Who is this allegedly said:
    >>
    >> > Welcome to 2003.
    >> >
    >> > We suggest Microsoft actually start backing up their promise of
    >> > Trustworthy Computing.

    >>
    >> Since they made the promise, it has arguably become worse.

    >
    > But you don't know anything as you have yourself set up in that self
    > important role of MS expert who doesn't actually use any of their
    > products.


    If I hear you right, you're criticising me for saying things when you have
    assumed I don't know what I'm talking about.

    There is a certain irony here because your own post is based on the
    unfounded assumption I don't use Windows.

    My job requires me to use MS Windows and MS Office all day, every day.

    So if you're looking for someone to criticise for making ill-founded
    statements.....start MUCH closer to home.

    Aren't you glad it was just me and not someone REALLY nasty? :)

    Just think how different it would be if you had addressed the issue of
    Microsoft security instead of wasting your time attacking me - wrongly, as
    it turns out.
     
    William Lyon McKenzie, Aug 22, 2003
    #5
  6. William Lyon McKenzie

    Col^ Guest

    On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 20:00:23 GMT, (Patrick FitzGerald) wrote:

    >On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:00:31 +1200, William Lyon McKenzie
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >>
    >>You're talking to a Linux user.... :)

    >
    >
    >
    > That will not save you from the evil of Palladium.
    >
    > Micro$oft is conspiring with chip makers to micro propgram their
    >domination of your computer.
    >
    >Now is the time for all concerned computer users to work out ways to
    >oppose the evil of Palladium .
    >
    >Patrick


    Patsy, you are the thicko, your spelling betrays you. ©
    --

    Col

    Col's law.
    Thinly sliced cabbage..
     
    Col^, Aug 22, 2003
    #6
  7. William Lyon McKenzie

    Who is this Guest

    In article <>,
    (Patrick FitzGerald) wrote:

    >
    > Now is the time for all concerned computer users to work out ways to
    > oppose the evil of Palladium .



    Why do you think I own Macs...apart from the fact that OSX is a better
    choice anyway.
     
    Who is this, Aug 22, 2003
    #7
  8. On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 10:02:27 +1200, Who is this wrote:

    >
    > Why do you think I own Macs...apart from the fact that OSX is a better
    > choice anyway.


    If you ever get the chance, listen to "three dead trolls in a baggie",
    "technical help desk"
     
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Aug 23, 2003
    #8
  9. William Lyon McKenzie

    Who is this Guest

    In article <N9x1b.13254$>,
    "Howard Johnson" <> wrote:

    > "Who is this" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > In article <>,
    > > (Patrick FitzGerald) wrote:
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Now is the time for all concerned computer users to work out ways to
    > > > oppose the evil of Palladium .

    > >
    > >
    > > Why do you think I own Macs...apart from the fact that OSX is a better
    > > choice anyway.

    >
    > Plural ? Most MacZealots are single box types.


    Well I have 3 and will be buying a 4th.

    > Because you have rather simple and limited needs and expectations.


    No, I have complex needs.

    > Because you have no need to run AutoCAD or accounting software that is only
    > written for Windows


    Autocad is crap, and just because something is exclusive to windows does
    not make it better. There are also many applications that are mac only
    and they are also damn good Apps.

    > Because you don't realise the cost benefits of running cheap i32 hardware
    > with Linux for storage, serving routing processing for your Apple desktop
    > client.
     
    Who is this, Aug 23, 2003
    #9
  10. "Who is this" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <N9x1b.13254$>,
    > "Howard Johnson" <> wrote:
    >
    > > "Who is this" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > In article <>,
    > > > (Patrick FitzGerald) wrote:
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Now is the time for all concerned computer users to work out ways

    to
    > > > > oppose the evil of Palladium .
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Why do you think I own Macs...apart from the fact that OSX is a better
    > > > choice anyway.

    > >
    > > Plural ? Most MacZealots are single box types.

    >
    > Well I have 3 and will be buying a 4th.
    >
    > > Because you have rather simple and limited needs and expectations.

    >
    > No, I have complex needs.
    >
    > > Because you have no need to run AutoCAD or accounting software that is

    only
    > > written for Windows

    >
    > Autocad is crap, and just because something is exclusive to windows does
    > not make it better. There are also many applications that are mac only
    > and they are also damn good Apps.


    There are great applications for Macs, I really like them.
    I'm just not a MacZealot, I choose platforms according to the application I
    need.
    Unfortunately just saying "AutoCAD is crap" (in a woger like fashion) is not
    an option if one has to operate in a community of AutoCAD users, which
    includes all building documentation for all contractors that I deal with.
    If I want to drive a router plotter or vinyl cutter, all the solutions are
    Windows. If I want to edit dialogue for a film the best solution is a Mac.
    If I want access to a vast archive of free software tools I use Debian.
     
    Howard Johnson, Aug 23, 2003
    #10
  11. William Lyon McKenzie

    Peter Guest

    this quote is from The Flash of Sun, 24 Aug 2003 00:02 :
    > If you think that the goal of removing viruses and Spam are
    > detrimental to computer users you are wrong.


    Removing viruses and spam would be great, but this is not the purpose of
    palladium. Palladium is to ensure that the USA corporations have more
    control over your computer than you do. The "trust" bit means that
    Microsoft et al can trust your computer to do as they wish, and not what a
    user may want to do. They will control what software you can run, and what
    data files you can access.
    http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html
    http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html


    Peter
     
    Peter, Aug 23, 2003
    #11
  12. On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 13:35:09 +1200, Howard Johnson wrote:

    > I'm just not a MacZealot, I choose platforms according to the application I
    > need.


    Which is the way to approach things.

    I have a WinCE Ipaq. It's not running linux because it runs a $2500
    wireless intrusion detection program which will only run on an Ipaq.

    If I want to play games, I'll buy a PS/2 or Xbox

    If I want to control a lathe, I'll buy a CNC processing box.

    The reality is that for 99.9% of what I want to do, Linux works and works
    well. I'd like to see anyone running _reliable_ clustered computing with
    Windows (Hint, the Titanic team dumped Wolfpack because it was slow and
    buggy).

    Most of the software I work with was developed on *nix or VMS systems, for
    *nix or VMS systems. Uptimes of several years are not unusual.
     
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Aug 23, 2003
    #12
  13. William Lyon McKenzie

    The Flash Guest

    "Peter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > this quote is from The Flash of Sun, 24 Aug 2003 00:02 :
    > > If you think that the goal of removing viruses and Spam are
    > > detrimental to computer users you are wrong.

    >
    > Removing viruses and spam would be great, but this is not the purpose of
    > palladium. Palladium is to ensure that the USA corporations have more
    > control over your computer than you do. The "trust" bit means that
    > Microsoft et al can trust your computer to do as they wish, and not what a
    > user may want to do. They will control what software you can run, and

    what
    > data files you can access.
    > http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
    > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html
    > http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html
    >
    >
    > Peter


    Not their plan but as spammers and virus writers will not be able to
    digitally sign and prove a trusted client the two major problems will be
    hugely reduced, just a side affect.

    Why do I want to run untrusted software or an untrusted os? Yes if you are
    pirate / cracker / hacker / thief it will impact on you. If you purchased
    your OS and apps it will make little differance.

    The world is changing, much like in the 50's you could cobble up a valve
    shortwave transmitter throw up an aerial and start chatting to folk around
    the world, more people started doing / technology moved on and along came
    strict regulations.

    The internet / personal computers / handheld connected devices have reached
    this point, the Golden days of PTP, hacking and cracking are quickly ending.
    Yes I will be sorry to see them gone but we all have to accept that this is
    the way things were cannot continue.

    Freedom? Lost that along time ago.
     
    The Flash, Aug 25, 2003
    #13
  14. William Lyon McKenzie

    Mark Harris Guest

    On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:53:12 +1200, "The Flash"
    <> wrote:

    >Not their plan but as spammers and virus writers will not be able to
    >digitally sign and prove a trusted client the two major problems will be
    >hugely reduced, just a side affect.
    >

    Think again. Once you have a "trusted environment", anybody on the
    inside can wreak havoc. It's an axiom of IT: if one can make it,
    another can break it. What happens when the black hats get hold of or
    forge a digital cert of the type required? Where's your protection
    then? What happens when they discover the inevitable security hole
    left by Microsoft, not as a backdoor, but as a cockup? Experience
    shows that this WILL happen - it's only a matter of when.

    >Why do I want to run untrusted software or an untrusted os? Yes if you are
    >pirate / cracker / hacker / thief it will impact on you. If you purchased
    >your OS and apps it will make little differance.
    >

    I suggest you read up on the whole Palladium/DRM issue as you haven't
    understood what it's about. MS doesn't want to protect you, it wants
    to protect it's intellectual property. Read the EULAs for Media
    Player, W2K SP3 and XP - you grant them the right to make changes to
    your system to protect THEIR intellectual property rights. See comment
    above about the inevitable cockup.

    You may have purchased an entirely legitimate piece of software only
    to find it will no longer run because Microsoft have decided the
    manufacturer is no longer "trusted". And don't say it won't happen -
    it already has - see the DR-DOS saga.

    MS has been convicted of abusing their monopoly position.
    Unfortunately, they got a lucky break when Dubya stole the US
    Presidency and gave them the courtesy of one crook to another, so they
    only got slapped with a wet bus ticket. They will do it again - some
    reports indicate they never stopped.

    >The world is changing, much like in the 50's you could cobble up a valve
    >shortwave transmitter throw up an aerial and start chatting to folk around
    >the world, more people started doing / technology moved on and along came
    >strict regulations.
    >

    This is an excuse for giving up control of your life? Regulation for
    the good of all is one thing. Palladium is a straitjacket controlled
    by a single corporate entity. To borrow you analogy, it's like you put
    up your arial but you're only allowed to recieve the one or two
    stations that Microsoft permits you to receive.

    >The internet / personal computers / handheld connected devices have reached
    >this point, the Golden days of PTP, hacking and cracking are quickly ending.
    >Yes I will be sorry to see them gone but we all have to accept that this is
    >the way things were cannot continue.
    >

    Don't think so. P2P and wireless offer more of a revolution than ever
    before.

    >Freedom? Lost that along time ago.
    >

    Only in your mind.

    cheers

    mark
    --
    "Someone's been mean to you! Tell me who it is, so I can punch him tastefully."
    - Ralph Bakshi's Mighty Mouse
     
    Mark Harris, Aug 28, 2003
    #14
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