Re: Will a camera stop working in the heat?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by ray, Jul 2, 2011.

  1. ray

    ray Guest

    On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 18:26:35 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

    > On 2011-07-01 15:49 , Alfred Molon wrote:
    >> I'm wondering if a digital camera would stop working when the ambient
    >> temperature exceeds a certain limit, for instance if you spend an
    >> entire day in a hot desert.

    >
    > There is a point. Look at the spec.
    >
    > For mine the max operating temp is 40°C (104°F).
    >
    > I've used it in Death Valley to 46°C (115°F) with no issues. But I kept
    > it in the shade and well bagged and it had spells in the car with ac).
    > Also walked around (racetrack, esp.) in the heat for over an hour with
    > it - so it definitely soaked above its spec point.
    >
    > It likely would have balked at some point had I been out there longer,
    > or perhaps there may have been artifacts from the sensor. Just did not
    > happen on that trip.
    >
    > Keep some white towels handy, and insulated (well padded) camera bag,
    > and it will probably shoot well most of the day even above the spec
    > point.


    Good point. As far as that goes, if it's a dry climate, keeping it in a
    plastic bag surrounded with damp towels would give good evaporative
    cooling.


    >
    > Note that body and lens lubricants will possibly run more and likely
    > evaporate more in the extreme heat.
     
    ray, Jul 2, 2011
    #1
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  2. ray

    ray Guest

    On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 18:17:50 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

    > On 2011-07-01 18:01:24 -0700, ray <> said:
    >
    >> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 18:26:35 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 2011-07-01 15:49 , Alfred Molon wrote:
    >>>> I'm wondering if a digital camera would stop working when the ambient
    >>>> temperature exceeds a certain limit, for instance if you spend an
    >>>> entire day in a hot desert.
    >>>
    >>> There is a point. Look at the spec.
    >>>
    >>> For mine the max operating temp is 40°C (104°F).
    >>>
    >>> I've used it in Death Valley to 46°C (115°F) with no issues. But I
    >>> kept it in the shade and well bagged and it had spells in the car with
    >>> ac). Also walked around (racetrack, esp.) in the heat for over an hour
    >>> with it - so it definitely soaked above its spec point.
    >>>
    >>> It likely would have balked at some point had I been out there longer,
    >>> or perhaps there may have been artifacts from the sensor. Just did
    >>> not happen on that trip.
    >>>
    >>> Keep some white towels handy, and insulated (well padded) camera bag,
    >>> and it will probably shoot well most of the day even above the spec
    >>> point.

    >>
    >> Good point. As far as that goes, if it's a dry climate, keeping it in a
    >> plastic bag surrounded with damp towels would give good evaporative
    >> cooling.

    >
    > That is not a good idea.
    > Bagged and protected from direct sunlight is probably your best bet. If
    > the bag has some cushioning material to help with insulation it would be
    > a great help, but wrapping with wet towels to add a cooling effect,
    > might prove problematic.


    How so?
     
    ray, Jul 2, 2011
    #2
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  3. ray

    PeterN Guest

    On 7/1/2011 11:59 PM, Savageduck wrote:

    >
    > BTW: along with keeping yourself well hydrated, get a decent hat.
    >


    Even though I drink a lot of water, I don't do well in heat. that is one
    of the reasons I live where I do. This past winter we were tempted by
    the NY snow storms and very low FL prices to possibly become snow birds.
    Without going into gory details, I will just say I was not a happy
    camper and only went out early mornings and late afternoons. I deeply
    regretted mid-day trips on days over 80.


    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, Jul 2, 2011
    #3
  4. ray

    ray Guest

    On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 10:22:19 -0400, PeterN wrote:

    > On 7/1/2011 11:59 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >
    >
    >> BTW: along with keeping yourself well hydrated, get a decent hat.
    >>
    >>

    > Even though I drink a lot of water, I don't do well in heat. that is one
    > of the reasons I live where I do. This past winter we were tempted by
    > the NY snow storms and very low FL prices to possibly become snow birds.
    > Without going into gory details, I will just say I was not a happy
    > camper and only went out early mornings and late afternoons. I deeply
    > regretted mid-day trips on days over 80.


    That also depends on where you go. I lived in the desert southwest for 30
    years. I never aclimated to the heat, but I learned to ignore it when
    necessary. There is a huge difference between Florida in the 80's (with
    humidity about the same) and the inland West where often with temps in
    the 80's humidity is no higher than the lower teens. After I retired, I
    moved back to Idaho. We sometimes see summer temps nearing 100, but not
    that many days and as soon as the sun starts to set, it cools rapidly.
     
    ray, Jul 2, 2011
    #4
  5. ray

    ray Guest

    On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 20:59:14 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

    > On 2011-07-01 20:14:25 -0700, ray <> said:
    >
    >> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 18:17:50 -0700, Savageduck wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 2011-07-01 18:01:24 -0700, ray <> said:
    >>>
    >>>> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 18:26:35 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2011-07-01 15:49 , Alfred Molon wrote:
    >>>>>> I'm wondering if a digital camera would stop working when the
    >>>>>> ambient temperature exceeds a certain limit, for instance if you
    >>>>>> spend an entire day in a hot desert.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> There is a point. Look at the spec.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> For mine the max operating temp is 40°C (104°F).
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I've used it in Death Valley to 46°C (115°F) with no issues. But I
    >>>>> kept it in the shade and well bagged and it had spells in the car
    >>>>> with ac). Also walked around (racetrack, esp.) in the heat for over
    >>>>> an hour with it - so it definitely soaked above its spec point.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It likely would have balked at some point had I been out there
    >>>>> longer, or perhaps there may have been artifacts from the sensor.
    >>>>> Just did not happen on that trip.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Keep some white towels handy, and insulated (well padded) camera
    >>>>> bag, and it will probably shoot well most of the day even above the
    >>>>> spec point.
    >>>>
    >>>> Good point. As far as that goes, if it's a dry climate, keeping it in
    >>>> a plastic bag surrounded with damp towels would give good evaporative
    >>>> cooling.
    >>>
    >>> That is not a good idea.
    >>> Bagged and protected from direct sunlight is probably your best bet.
    >>> If the bag has some cushioning material to help with insulation it
    >>> would be a great help, but wrapping with wet towels to add a cooling
    >>> effect, might prove problematic.

    >>
    >> How so?

    >
    > Having the camera kept artificially cool using a make-shift "swamp
    > cooler" with damp towels will invariably lead to condensation issues for
    > lenses and camera.
    >
    > The same can happen when suddenly moving from an air conditioned
    > environment to the oven like heat of the desert.
    >
    > I have experienced what can happen with sudden changes from an
    > artificially cooled environment to the intense heat which can be found
    > in a hot desert climate. Some years ago while traveling in Namibia
    > through the Namib Desert to the coastal town of Swakopmund in an
    > air-conditioned car, I decided to see just what it felt like outside and
    > I rolled the window down. The result was an instant micro-climate
    > weather front created inside the car which completely fogged the
    > interior, forcing us to stop as we had no visibility through the
    > interior cloud. I would not have believed this could have happen so
    > dramatically if I had not experienced it myself.
    >
    > It would not be entirely outside the realm of possibility to have a
    > similar thing happen to the interior of a camera under similar
    > circumstances.
    >
    > As I said, I would keep your camera in a decent camera bag, with
    > appropriate padding (perhaps with an extra wrap). That way if you are in
    > a vehicle with AC and you move into the heat there would not be a steep
    > heat differential. Also if you are out in the heat a bag (it could be a
    > back-pack) would protect the camera from the added heat of direct
    > exposure to the Sun.
    >
    > BTW: along with keeping yourself well hydrated, get a decent hat.


    I see a couple of factors that you failed to mention: if it is a humid
    climate, the 'swamp cooler' would have very little effect in cooling -
    indeed the best you can do theoretically, is to cool to the wet bulb
    temperature. And if it's dry enough that it does very much, then I don't
    think the condensation is going to be a big factor.

    As in my first reply - major thing would be to keep the camera out of the
    sun as much as possible - as you've indicated. Keeping it in anything but
    a white or reflective bag, however, will heat it up some more - though
    not as much as direct sun.
     
    ray, Jul 2, 2011
    #5
  6. ray

    PeterN Guest

    On 7/2/2011 10:46 AM, ray wrote:
    > On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 10:22:19 -0400, PeterN wrote:
    >
    >> On 7/1/2011 11:59 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> BTW: along with keeping yourself well hydrated, get a decent hat.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Even though I drink a lot of water, I don't do well in heat. that is one
    >> of the reasons I live where I do. This past winter we were tempted by
    >> the NY snow storms and very low FL prices to possibly become snow birds.
    >> Without going into gory details, I will just say I was not a happy
    >> camper and only went out early mornings and late afternoons. I deeply
    >> regretted mid-day trips on days over 80.

    >
    > That also depends on where you go. I lived in the desert southwest for 30
    > years. I never aclimated to the heat, but I learned to ignore it when
    > necessary. There is a huge difference between Florida in the 80's (with
    > humidity about the same) and the inland West where often with temps in
    > the 80's humidity is no higher than the lower teens. After I retired, I
    > moved back to Idaho. We sometimes see summer temps nearing 100, but not
    > that many days and as soon as the sun starts to set, it cools rapidly.


    I have spent time in the desert. (Vegas & Phoenix.) You are right about
    the heat being different. But I also need to be near the ocean.

    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, Jul 2, 2011
    #6
  7. ray

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 10:22:19 -0400, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    >On 7/1/2011 11:59 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> BTW: along with keeping yourself well hydrated, get a decent hat.
    >>

    >
    >Even though I drink a lot of water, I don't do well in heat. that is one
    >of the reasons I live where I do. This past winter we were tempted by
    >the NY snow storms and very low FL prices to possibly become snow birds.
    >Without going into gory details, I will just say I was not a happy
    >camper and only went out early mornings and late afternoons. I deeply
    >regretted mid-day trips on days over 80.


    You'd be miserable here this time of year. We've had very heavy rains
    this past week, but its supposed to clear up this weekend. In the
    meantime, the temp outside is 82 and the humidity is so high that its
    like sucking water. If I do anything outside, I have to change shirts
    two or three times a day because they become soaked with sweat.

    My wife would kill me if she knew I was posting this, but she went for
    a "power walk" last week and stuck her mobile phone in her bra. The
    phone stopped working, the tab inside turned pink, and the provider
    said the phone was permanently dead due to water (sweat) damage.

    I wrapped the phone in a sock, put it in the dryer for 40 minutes, and
    let it tumble around in the heat. The phone is now working again.

    I bought her a rubber phone holder with a belt clip that she can use
    next time she walks.




    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jul 2, 2011
    #7
  8. ray

    ray Guest

    On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 08:26:00 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

    > On 2011-07-02 07:49:55 -0700, ray <> said:
    >
    >> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 20:59:14 -0700, Savageduck wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 2011-07-01 20:14:25 -0700, ray <> said:
    >>>
    >>>> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 18:17:50 -0700, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2011-07-01 18:01:24 -0700, ray <> said:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 18:26:35 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> On 2011-07-01 15:49 , Alfred Molon wrote:
    >>>>>>>> I'm wondering if a digital camera would stop working when the
    >>>>>>>> ambient temperature exceeds a certain limit, for instance if you
    >>>>>>>> spend an entire day in a hot desert.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> There is a point. Look at the spec.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> For mine the max operating temp is 40°C (104°F).
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I've used it in Death Valley to 46°C (115°F) with no issues. But
    >>>>>>> I kept it in the shade and well bagged and it had spells in the
    >>>>>>> car with ac). Also walked around (racetrack, esp.) in the heat for
    >>>>>>> over an hour with it - so it definitely soaked above its spec
    >>>>>>> point.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> It likely would have balked at some point had I been out there
    >>>>>>> longer, or perhaps there may have been artifacts from the sensor.
    >>>>>>> Just did not happen on that trip.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Keep some white towels handy, and insulated (well padded) camera
    >>>>>>> bag, and it will probably shoot well most of the day even above
    >>>>>>> the spec point.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Good point. As far as that goes, if it's a dry climate, keeping it
    >>>>>> in a plastic bag surrounded with damp towels would give good
    >>>>>> evaporative cooling.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> That is not a good idea.
    >>>>> Bagged and protected from direct sunlight is probably your best bet.
    >>>>> If the bag has some cushioning material to help with insulation it
    >>>>> would be a great help, but wrapping with wet towels to add a cooling
    >>>>> effect, might prove problematic.
    >>>>
    >>>> How so?
    >>>
    >>> Having the camera kept artificially cool using a make-shift "swamp
    >>> cooler" with damp towels will invariably lead to condensation issues
    >>> for lenses and camera.
    >>>
    >>> The same can happen when suddenly moving from an air conditioned
    >>> environment to the oven like heat of the desert.
    >>>
    >>> I have experienced what can happen with sudden changes from an
    >>> artificially cooled environment to the intense heat which can be found
    >>> in a hot desert climate. Some years ago while traveling in Namibia
    >>> through the Namib Desert to the coastal town of Swakopmund in an
    >>> air-conditioned car, I decided to see just what it felt like outside
    >>> and I rolled the window down. The result was an instant micro-climate
    >>> weather front created inside the car which completely fogged the
    >>> interior, forcing us to stop as we had no visibility through the
    >>> interior cloud. I would not have believed this could have happen so
    >>> dramatically if I had not experienced it myself.
    >>>
    >>> It would not be entirely outside the realm of possibility to have a
    >>> similar thing happen to the interior of a camera under similar
    >>> circumstances.
    >>>
    >>> As I said, I would keep your camera in a decent camera bag, with
    >>> appropriate padding (perhaps with an extra wrap). That way if you are
    >>> in a vehicle with AC and you move into the heat there would not be a
    >>> steep heat differential. Also if you are out in the heat a bag (it
    >>> could be a back-pack) would protect the camera from the added heat of
    >>> direct exposure to the Sun.
    >>>
    >>> BTW: along with keeping yourself well hydrated, get a decent hat.

    >>
    >> I see a couple of factors that you failed to mention: if it is a humid
    >> climate, the 'swamp cooler' would have very little effect in cooling -
    >> indeed the best you can do theoretically, is to cool to the wet bulb
    >> temperature. And if it's dry enough that it does very much, then I
    >> don't think the condensation is going to be a big factor.

    >
    > Anyway I don't believe the wet towel "swamp cooler" is going to prove to
    > be a great idea.
    >
    >
    >> As in my first reply - major thing would be to keep the camera out of
    >> the sun as much as possible - as you've indicated. Keeping it in
    >> anything but a white or reflective bag, however, will heat it up some
    >> more - though not as much as direct sun.

    >
    > Agreed.
    > However most padded contemporary camera bags, regardless of color (with
    > the exception of a black bag) will provide protection against direct
    > exposure to the Sun. I have a forest green LowePro Nova, a light grey
    > Tamrac 612, and a Clikelite ProbodySport backpack in light grey (and
    > that can also accommodate a 3 liter "Camelbak" hydration bladder) those
    > seem to do a pretty good job for me.
    > ...and we have our taste of dry heat around here this week, 102F on
    > Thur, 104F Fri, 104F predicted for today, & 106F tomorrow.


    You have us beat ;) Earlier the NWS had forecast a series of days in the
    low 100's - but currently I don't see anything over 95. Plenty for me -
    I'm happy in the 60's.
     
    ray, Jul 2, 2011
    #8
  9. ray

    PeterN Guest

    On 7/2/2011 11:41 AM, tony cooper wrote:
    > On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 10:22:19 -0400, PeterN
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> On 7/1/2011 11:59 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> BTW: along with keeping yourself well hydrated, get a decent hat.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Even though I drink a lot of water, I don't do well in heat. that is one
    >> of the reasons I live where I do. This past winter we were tempted by
    >> the NY snow storms and very low FL prices to possibly become snow birds.
    >> Without going into gory details, I will just say I was not a happy
    >> camper and only went out early mornings and late afternoons. I deeply
    >> regretted mid-day trips on days over 80.

    >
    > You'd be miserable here this time of year. We've had very heavy rains
    > this past week, but its supposed to clear up this weekend. In the
    > meantime, the temp outside is 82 and the humidity is so high that its
    > like sucking water. If I do anything outside, I have to change shirts
    > two or three times a day because they become soaked with sweat.
    >


    I know that well. I used to travel to FL on business about four to five
    times a year. Our FL vacations were usually on Sanibel between about
    November 15th and the first week of December.

    You are not very likely to find me as a neighbor, if you continue to
    live in FL. (I know, I just gave you a reason not to move.)


    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, Jul 2, 2011
    #9
  10. ray

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 12:37:57 -0400, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    >On 7/2/2011 11:41 AM, tony cooper wrote:
    >> On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 10:22:19 -0400, PeterN
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 7/1/2011 11:59 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> BTW: along with keeping yourself well hydrated, get a decent hat.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Even though I drink a lot of water, I don't do well in heat. that is one
    >>> of the reasons I live where I do. This past winter we were tempted by
    >>> the NY snow storms and very low FL prices to possibly become snow birds.
    >>> Without going into gory details, I will just say I was not a happy
    >>> camper and only went out early mornings and late afternoons. I deeply
    >>> regretted mid-day trips on days over 80.

    >>
    >> You'd be miserable here this time of year. We've had very heavy rains
    >> this past week, but its supposed to clear up this weekend. In the
    >> meantime, the temp outside is 82 and the humidity is so high that its
    >> like sucking water. If I do anything outside, I have to change shirts
    >> two or three times a day because they become soaked with sweat.
    >>

    >
    >I know that well. I used to travel to FL on business about four to five
    >times a year. Our FL vacations were usually on Sanibel between about
    >November 15th and the first week of December.
    >
    >You are not very likely to find me as a neighbor, if you continue to
    >live in FL. (I know, I just gave you a reason not to move.)


    We moved down here from the Chicago area in 1972, but at this same
    time of year...the July 4th weekend. We had two cars: an 1972
    Chevrolet Nova without A/C and a 1969 Volkswagen Camper without A/C.
    The house we bought here was our first house with air conditioning.

    I had an after-market A/C put in the Nova, but traded it for a new
    Impala the next spring. We kept the VW for several years because it
    was ideal for jaunts with our children.

    Between the heat, the humidity, and the cockroaches and mosquitos, we
    thought we'd made a terrible mistake. We're acclimated now, though.

    It was a business decision to move, not a move to get away from the
    cold, slush, and snow. I was offered a very good opportunity in
    Florida by the company I then worked for.





    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jul 2, 2011
    #10
  11. ray

    Wally Guest

    On 2 Jul 2011 16:30:45 GMT, ray <> wrote:

    >You have us beat ;) Earlier the NWS had forecast a series of days in the
    >low 100's -


    The North West South?

    W
     
    Wally, Jul 2, 2011
    #11
  12. ray

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 22:48:24 -0400, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:

    >Never done that with camera gear but ray's idea reminds me of stories
    >from driving in the African desert where a large slightly seeping bag of
    >water was placed over the engine (hood). Driving that way, the water
    >seep would evaporate. By evening of the trip the many litres (100 or
    >so) in the bag would be ice cold...


    You didn't have to be in Africa to see them. They were a common sight
    in the American western desert roads as late as the 50s and even the
    60s. The evaporating water cooled the engine better than the fan did.

    You see the bags frequently on eBay:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Desert-...157?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2311f057d5

    I suppose a Swamp Cooler, used to keep the people inside the
    automobile cool, would be impractical to attach to a camera case.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_cooler

    You'd have to run very fast to keep the air running through the
    device.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jul 3, 2011
    #12
  13. ray

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Sat, 2 Jul 2011 14:23:33 -0700, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
    wrote:
    : On 2011-07-02 13:45:45 -0700, Wally <> said:
    :
    : > On 2 Jul 2011 16:30:45 GMT, ray <> wrote:
    : >
    : >> You have us beat ;) Earlier the NWS had forecast a series of days in the
    : >> low 100's -
    : >
    : > The North West South?
    : >
    : > W
    :
    : I have a sneekin' suspicion that "NSW" indicates "New South Wales."

    Without reading ahead, I'll guess "National Weather Service". ;^)

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jul 3, 2011
    #13
  14. ray

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:21:35 -0400, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:

    >On 2011-07-02 23:58 , tony cooper wrote:
    >> On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 22:48:24 -0400, Alan Browne
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Never done that with camera gear but ray's idea reminds me of stories
    >>>from driving in the African desert where a large slightly seeping bag of
    >>> water was placed over the engine (hood). Driving that way, the water
    >>> seep would evaporate. By evening of the trip the many litres (100 or
    >>> so) in the bag would be ice cold...

    >>
    >> You didn't have to be in Africa to see them. They were a common sight
    >> in the American western desert roads as late as the 50s and even the
    >> 60s. The evaporating water cooled the engine better than the fan did.

    >
    >In my recollection it had little to do with engine cooling.


    I was never on a road trip where one was used, but somewhere in my
    boxes of old family photos there's a snap of my aunt standing in front
    of her Ford with one hanging on the grille. The snap was taken
    somewhere in the west when she and some girlfriends drove from Indiana
    to California with stops in Arizona and New Mexico to visit relatives.

    She was told that the water bag would turn the incoming hot air to
    cool air and stop the overheating the of the water in the radiator,
    and thus cool the engine. I remember asking her about the thing when
    I saw the photo. I don't recall her saying they ever drank the water.

    >The hood
    >position just provided a lot of evaporation as the vehicle moved through
    >the air. Engine cooling air mostly goes out through the bottom of the
    >engine compartment when the vehicle is moving.
    >
    >Indeed, on stopping you'd want to get the water off of there quickly as
    >the heat of the stopped engine would have nowhere to go.


    The bags aren't large enough to block air flow.

    >Could also be on the roof of the vehicle - but that usually had other cargo.
    >
    >>
    >> You see the bags frequently on eBay:
    >> http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Desert-...157?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2311f057d5
    >>
    >> I suppose a Swamp Cooler, used to keep the people inside the
    >> automobile cool, would be impractical to attach to a camera case.
    >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_cooler

    >
    >Cool. Never seen those before.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jul 3, 2011
    #14
  15. ray

    tony cooper Guest

    On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 11:37:44 -0400, Alan Browne
    <> wrote:

    >On 2011-07-03 10:40 , tony cooper wrote:
    >> On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:21:35 -0400, Alan Browne
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 2011-07-02 23:58 , tony cooper wrote:
    >>>> On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 22:48:24 -0400, Alan Browne
    >>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Never done that with camera gear but ray's idea reminds me of stories
    >>>> >from driving in the African desert where a large slightly seeping bag of
    >>>>> water was placed over the engine (hood). Driving that way, the water
    >>>>> seep would evaporate. By evening of the trip the many litres (100 or
    >>>>> so) in the bag would be ice cold...
    >>>>
    >>>> You didn't have to be in Africa to see them. They were a common sight
    >>>> in the American western desert roads as late as the 50s and even the
    >>>> 60s. The evaporating water cooled the engine better than the fan did.
    >>>
    >>> In my recollection it had little to do with engine cooling.

    >>
    >> I was never on a road trip where one was used, but somewhere in my
    >> boxes of old family photos there's a snap of my aunt standing in front
    >> of her Ford with one hanging on the grille. The snap was taken
    >> somewhere in the west when she and some girlfriends drove from Indiana
    >> to California with stops in Arizona and New Mexico to visit relatives.
    >>
    >> She was told that the water bag would turn the incoming hot air to
    >> cool air and stop the overheating the of the water in the radiator,
    >> and thus cool the engine. I remember asking her about the thing when
    >> I saw the photo. I don't recall her saying they ever drank the water.

    >
    >Different use then of what I had seen (on the hood not in front of the
    >grille). It does makes sense of course. Cooling is all about
    >difference in temperature.
    >
    >I was just reading up about the seeping water cooler. Apparently the
    >taste of the water was an unpleasant canvas taste.... so would not be
    >popular in our pampered world.
    >
    >OTOH by using more advanced materials that "wick" one way, it could
    >probably be made less foul tasting.
    >
    >>> The hood
    >>> position just provided a lot of evaporation as the vehicle moved through
    >>> the air. Engine cooling air mostly goes out through the bottom of the
    >>> engine compartment when the vehicle is moving.
    >>>
    >>> Indeed, on stopping you'd want to get the water off of there quickly as
    >>> the heat of the stopped engine would have nowhere to go.

    >>
    >> The bags aren't large enough to block air flow.

    >
    >Again, I was referring to bags on the hood, not in front of the grille.


    You've forced me to Google this:

    http://10engines.blogspot.com/2009/05/radiator-water-bag.html

    In case you don't want to open a link, it shows the bags hung in front
    of the grille and the copy says:

    "Not being a vintage car buff, or from the west coast/desert states, I
    had not heard of or seen these until yesterday.... but radiator water
    bags were soaked then filled with water (surprise) and hung over the
    radiator cap or emblem as cars travelled during hot times of the day
    or year... by evaporation the bag would cool, cooling the radiator,
    bonus, you then had extra water to top up the radiator if needed."



    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jul 3, 2011
    #15
  16. ray

    ray Guest

    On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 08:04:57 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

    > On 2011-07-03 07:30:58 -0700, ray <> said:
    >
    >> On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 22:48:24 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 2011-07-01 21:17 , Savageduck wrote:
    >>>> On 2011-07-01 18:01:24 -0700, ray <> said:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 18:26:35 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On 2011-07-01 15:49 , Alfred Molon wrote:
    >>>>>>> I'm wondering if a digital camera would stop working when the
    >>>>>>> ambient temperature exceeds a certain limit, for instance if you
    >>>>>>> spend an entire day in a hot desert.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> There is a point. Look at the spec.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> For mine the max operating temp is 40°C (104°F).
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I've used it in Death Valley to 46°C (115°F) with no issues. But I
    >>>>>> kept it in the shade and well bagged and it had spells in the car
    >>>>>> with ac). Also walked around (racetrack, esp.) in the heat for over
    >>>>>> an hour with it - so it definitely soaked above its spec point.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> It likely would have balked at some point had I been out there
    >>>>>> longer, or perhaps there may have been artifacts from the sensor.
    >>>>>> Just did not happen on that trip.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Keep some white towels handy, and insulated (well padded) camera
    >>>>>> bag, and it will probably shoot well most of the day even above the
    >>>>>> spec point.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Good point. As far as that goes, if it's a dry climate, keeping it
    >>>>> in a plastic bag surrounded with damp towels would give good
    >>>>> evaporative cooling.
    >>>>
    >>>> That is not a good idea.
    >>>> Bagged and protected from direct sunlight is probably your best bet.
    >>>> If the bag has some cushioning material to help with insulation it
    >>>> would be a great help, but wrapping with wet towels to add a cooling
    >>>> effect, might prove problematic.
    >>>
    >>> It's not a bad idea. When I golf in the high heat I wring out a towel
    >>> as much as I can and place it around my neck. The evaporation removes
    >>> a lot of heat. The marshal can **** himself if it's sartorially
    >>> incompatible with his high standards.

    >>
    >> There are, or were, commercially manufactured neck devices about 3/4"
    >> in diameter when soaked in water - tie it around somewhat like a
    >> bandana. When completely dried out, it was essentially flat with a few
    >> beads of some material floating around inside. Haven't needed one since
    >> I left the desert southwest seven years ago.
    >>
    >>
    >>> Never done that with camera gear but ray's idea reminds me of stories
    >>> from driving in the African desert where a large slightly seeping bag
    >>> of water was placed over the engine (hood). Driving that way, the
    >>> water seep would evaporate. By evening of the trip the many litres
    >>> (100 or so) in the bag would be ice cold...
    >>>
    >>> So if the camera bag can be protected, the cooling will definitely
    >>> prevent overheating the bag. No matter what the insulation thermal
    >>> equilibrium is inevitable. Might as well reverse the sign.

    >>
    >> The point is that the contents would generally not be cooled that much
    >> in ambient airflow. We're talking about knocking the inside temp down
    >> from 120F to maybe 90F. Unless it's a comparatively damp climate, that
    >> will still be above the dew point - hence no condensation. It takes a
    >> goodly air flow to get the temps down anywhere near the dew point.

    >
    > I have this image of a camera bag covered in dripping cloth, hanging off
    > the front of the vehicle in the slipstream. I just hope there is enough
    > padding to absorb the potential impact damage. ...and it might end up a
    > degree or two cooler.


    I think I suggested 'damp' rather than 'dripping' and I don't believe I'd
    have it in the slipstream. Could wind up being 20 or 30 degrees cooler,
    depending on the conditions. But you still can't cool something, by means
    of evaporation, to a point where it would condense.
     
    ray, Jul 3, 2011
    #16
  17. ray

    ray Guest

    On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 12:26:56 -0400, tony cooper wrote:

    > On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 11:37:44 -0400, Alan Browne
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>On 2011-07-03 10:40 , tony cooper wrote:
    >>> On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:21:35 -0400, Alan Browne
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On 2011-07-02 23:58 , tony cooper wrote:
    >>>>> On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 22:48:24 -0400, Alan Browne
    >>>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Never done that with camera gear but ray's idea reminds me of
    >>>>>> stories
    >>>>> >from driving in the African desert where a large slightly seeping
    >>>>> >bag of
    >>>>>> water was placed over the engine (hood). Driving that way, the
    >>>>>> water seep would evaporate. By evening of the trip the many litres
    >>>>>> (100 or so) in the bag would be ice cold...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> You didn't have to be in Africa to see them. They were a common
    >>>>> sight in the American western desert roads as late as the 50s and
    >>>>> even the 60s. The evaporating water cooled the engine better than
    >>>>> the fan did.
    >>>>
    >>>> In my recollection it had little to do with engine cooling.
    >>>
    >>> I was never on a road trip where one was used, but somewhere in my
    >>> boxes of old family photos there's a snap of my aunt standing in front
    >>> of her Ford with one hanging on the grille. The snap was taken
    >>> somewhere in the west when she and some girlfriends drove from Indiana
    >>> to California with stops in Arizona and New Mexico to visit relatives.
    >>>
    >>> She was told that the water bag would turn the incoming hot air to
    >>> cool air and stop the overheating the of the water in the radiator,
    >>> and thus cool the engine. I remember asking her about the thing when
    >>> I saw the photo. I don't recall her saying they ever drank the water.

    >>
    >>Different use then of what I had seen (on the hood not in front of the
    >>grille). It does makes sense of course. Cooling is all about
    >>difference in temperature.
    >>
    >>I was just reading up about the seeping water cooler. Apparently the
    >>taste of the water was an unpleasant canvas taste.... so would not be
    >>popular in our pampered world.
    >>
    >>OTOH by using more advanced materials that "wick" one way, it could
    >>probably be made less foul tasting.
    >>
    >>>> The hood
    >>>> position just provided a lot of evaporation as the vehicle moved
    >>>> through the air. Engine cooling air mostly goes out through the
    >>>> bottom of the engine compartment when the vehicle is moving.
    >>>>
    >>>> Indeed, on stopping you'd want to get the water off of there quickly
    >>>> as the heat of the stopped engine would have nowhere to go.
    >>>
    >>> The bags aren't large enough to block air flow.

    >>
    >>Again, I was referring to bags on the hood, not in front of the grille.

    >
    > You've forced me to Google this:
    >
    > http://10engines.blogspot.com/2009/05/radiator-water-bag.html
    >
    > In case you don't want to open a link, it shows the bags hung in front
    > of the grille and the copy says:
    >
    > "Not being a vintage car buff, or from the west coast/desert states, I
    > had not heard of or seen these until yesterday.... but radiator water
    > bags were soaked then filled with water (surprise) and hung over the
    > radiator cap or emblem as cars travelled during hot times of the day or
    > year... by evaporation the bag would cool, cooling the radiator, bonus,
    > you then had extra water to top up the radiator if needed."


    I don't think blocking the radiator air flow is going to improve the
    engine cooling much. The main effect is to cool the contents, not the air
    around it. The bags work in the following fashion: first, soak the bags
    so that the fibers expand, allowing the liquid to be retained. As the bag
    is in the airflow, water evaporates from the surface, cooling the surface
    and thence the contents. As the water evaporates from the surface, it
    does 'wick out' to replenish. If you've ever used one, you'll be aware
    that the surface, after much time, is damp but certainly not soaking.

    We used to use one when I was a kid. I've used them up to the early 80's.
    In the earlier days, it was not so easy to carry much cool water - but
    modern coolers have made it much simpler.
     
    ray, Jul 3, 2011
    #17
  18. ray

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Jul 2, 4:59 am, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    > On 2011-07-01 20:14:25 -0700, ray <> said:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 18:17:50 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

    >
    > >> On 2011-07-01 18:01:24 -0700, ray <> said:

    >
    > >>> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 18:26:35 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

    >
    > >>>> On 2011-07-01 15:49 , Alfred Molon wrote:
    > >>>>> I'm wondering if a digital camera would stop working when the ambient
    > >>>>> temperature exceeds a certain limit, for instance if you spend an
    > >>>>> entire day in a hot desert.

    >
    > >>>> There is a point.  Look at the spec.

    >
    > >>>> For mine the max operating temp is 40°C (104°F).

    >
    > >>>> I've used it in Death Valley to 46°C (115°F) with no issues.  But I
    > >>>> kept it in the shade and well bagged and it had spells in the car with
    > >>>> ac). Also walked around (racetrack, esp.) in the heat for over an hour
    > >>>> with it - so it definitely soaked above its spec point.

    >
    > >>>> It likely would have balked at some point had I been out there longer,
    > >>>> or perhaps there may have been artifacts from the sensor.  Just did
    > >>>> not happen on that trip.

    >
    > >>>> Keep some white towels handy, and insulated (well padded) camera bag,
    > >>>> and it will probably shoot well most of the day even above the spec
    > >>>> point.

    >
    > >>> Good point. As far as that goes, if it's a dry climate, keeping it ina
    > >>> plastic bag surrounded with damp towels would give good evaporative
    > >>> cooling.

    >
    > >> That is not a good idea.
    > >> Bagged and protected from direct sunlight is probably your best bet. If
    > >> the bag has some cushioning material to help with insulation it would be
    > >> a great help, but wrapping with wet towels to add a cooling effect,
    > >> might prove problematic.

    >
    > > How so?

    >
    > Having the camera kept artificially cool using a make-shift "swamp
    > cooler" with damp towels will invariably lead to condensation issues
    > for lenses and camera.
    >
    > The same can happen when suddenly moving from an air conditioned
    > environment to the oven like heat of the desert.
    >
    > I have experienced what can happen with sudden changes from an
    > artificially cooled environment to the intense heat which can be found
    > in a hot desert climate. Some years ago while traveling in Namibia
    > through the Namib Desert to the coastal town of Swakopmund in an
    > air-conditioned car, I decided to see just what it felt like outside
    > and I rolled the window down. The result was an instant micro-climate
    > weather front created inside the car which completely fogged the
    > interior, forcing us to stop as we had no visibility through the
    > interior cloud. I would not have believed this could have happen so
    > dramatically if I had not experienced it myself.
    >
    > It would not be entirely outside the realm of possibility to have a
    > similar thing happen to the interior of a camera under similar
    > circumstances.
    >
    > As I said, I would keep your camera in a decent camera bag, with
    > appropriate padding (perhaps with an extra wrap). That way if you are
    > in a vehicle with AC and you move into the heat there would not be a
    > steep heat differential. Also if you are out in the heat a bag (it
    > could be a back-pack) would protect the camera from the added heat of
    > direct exposure to the Sun.
    >
    > BTW: along with keeping yourself well hydrated, get a decent hat.


    And sun glasses, some hefty suntan lotion and cold beer :)
     
    Whisky-dave, Jul 4, 2011
    #18
  19. ray

    John Turco Guest

    Savageduck wrote:
    >
    > > On 2011-07-02 12:29:07 -0700, Alfred Molon <>
    > > said:
    > >
    > >> Savageduck says...
    > >> However most padded contemporary camera bags, regardless of color
    > >> (with the exception of a black bag) will provide protection against
    > >> direct exposure to the Sun.

    > >
    > > Lots of (perhaps most) camera bags are black :-(

    >
    > My LowePro is green and my Tamrac and ClikElite are light grey.
    > All my ThinkTank stuff is black.
    >
    > The important thing is protection from the direct heat of the Sun.
    > The ambient temperature is something you will just have to deal
    > with.



    UV (ultraviolet) radiation is a damaging component of sunlight.

    Among other potential hazards (such as skin cancer), it can make
    plastic brittle, unless preventative measures are taken (e.g.,
    the use of "Armor All" protectant).

    --
    Cordially,
    John Turco <>

    Marie's Musings <http://fairiesandtails.blogspot.com>
     
    John Turco, Jul 9, 2011
    #19
  20. ray

    PeterN Guest

    On 7/8/2011 11:48 PM, John Turco wrote:
    > Savageduck wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 2011-07-02 12:29:07 -0700, Alfred Molon<>
    >>> said:
    >>>
    >>>> Savageduck says...
    >>>> However most padded contemporary camera bags, regardless of color
    >>>> (with the exception of a black bag) will provide protection against
    >>>> direct exposure to the Sun.
    >>>
    >>> Lots of (perhaps most) camera bags are black :-(

    >>
    >> My LowePro is green and my Tamrac and ClikElite are light grey.
    >> All my ThinkTank stuff is black.
    >>
    >> The important thing is protection from the direct heat of the Sun.
    >> The ambient temperature is something you will just have to deal
    >> with.

    >
    >
    > UV (ultraviolet) radiation is a damaging component of sunlight.
    >
    > Among other potential hazards (such as skin cancer), it can make
    > plastic brittle, unless preventative measures are taken (e.g.,
    > the use of "Armor All" protectant).
    >


    Doesn't that make it greasy?

    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, Jul 9, 2011
    #20
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