Re: Why I won't buy a Sony NEX yet

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Rich, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. Rich

    Rich Guest

    On Feb 8, 7:32 pm, Bowser <> wrote:
    > On 2/8/2011 6:06 PM, Rich wrote:
    >
    > > Even though they could be terrific cameras, great sensor, compact,
    > > compatible with all sorts of manual legacy lenses, etc., without an EVF,
    > > they are not acceptable.  Why is it so hard for Sony to do what Olympus and
    > > Panasonic have already done?  Especially Olympus which has produced a very
    > > good clip-on EVF.  I hope the NEX 7 has an EVF, but I doubt it will.

    >
    > I'm betting that a clip on EVF is coming. I haven't seen as much as a
    > rumor, but it makes sense.
    >
    > BTW, Sony finally did something right and opened the E mount
    > specifications to third parties for free. I like this. All those lenses
    > already designed for that size sensor can be adapted, and maybe a few
    > more. Unlike 4/3, which requires different focal lengths to cover like
    > ranges, all the APS-C lenses already exist. For me that's the biggest
    > weakness of NEX right now, the lack of lens choices. I kind of like the
    > system, though, and I think Sony has done a pretty job with the control
    > system for a camera so small.


    Yes, I've never understood those who moan about the implimentation of
    in-menu controls, they can all be learned and used. They aren't as
    fast to use (generally) as buttons, but that's just the price. My
    only issue is the physical one, when you build a body that small,
    hitting the wrong button can happen, so you really have to learn to be
    careful, you don't have the luxury of a big DSLR body with lots of
    room.
     
    Rich, Feb 9, 2011
    #1
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  2. Rich

    Bruce Guest

    Bowser <> wrote:
    >On 2/9/2011 8:54 AM, Rich wrote:
    >> On Feb 8, 7:32 pm, Bowser<> wrote:
    >>> On 2/8/2011 6:06 PM, Rich wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Even though they could be terrific cameras, great sensor, compact,
    >>>> compatible with all sorts of manual legacy lenses, etc., without an EVF,
    >>>> they are not acceptable. Why is it so hard for Sony to do what Olympus and
    >>>> Panasonic have already done? Especially Olympus which has produced a very
    >>>> good clip-on EVF. I hope the NEX 7 has an EVF, but I doubt it will.
    >>>
    >>> I'm betting that a clip on EVF is coming. I haven't seen as much as a
    >>> rumor, but it makes sense.
    >>>
    >>> BTW, Sony finally did something right and opened the E mount
    >>> specifications to third parties for free. I like this. All those lenses
    >>> already designed for that size sensor can be adapted, and maybe a few
    >>> more. Unlike 4/3, which requires different focal lengths to cover like
    >>> ranges, all the APS-C lenses already exist. For me that's the biggest
    >>> weakness of NEX right now, the lack of lens choices. I kind of like the
    >>> system, though, and I think Sony has done a pretty job with the control
    >>> system for a camera so small.

    >>
    >> Yes, I've never understood those who moan about the implimentation of
    >> in-menu controls, they can all be learned and used. They aren't as
    >> fast to use (generally) as buttons, but that's just the price. My
    >> only issue is the physical one, when you build a body that small,
    >> hitting the wrong button can happen, so you really have to learn to be
    >> careful, you don't have the luxury of a big DSLR body with lots of
    >> room.

    >
    >True. I've been using one for a few days now with no control issues.
    >Once you update to the "03" version of the firmware and have control
    >over the soft buttons it's much better. No wrong button pushes yet. Kit
    >lens is kind of stiff, though. Hopefully it'll loosen up.



    There is a high-end NEX body on the way with features that will appeal
    to DSLR users. Expect it Q4/2011. I hope it doesn't slip beyond that
    date because Christmas 2011 sales will be crucial to its success.

    There will also be some high end lenses for NEX. Hopefully there will
    be at least one Carl Zeiss lens this year which should do justice to
    the excellent sensor. The 18-55mm kit zoom is absolutely atrocious
    .... unless you're happy with the quality of kit zooms, of course. The
    16mm pancake lens is even worse.

    I have been invited to a Nikon "major product launch" next month
    (March) and I expect there to be some news of Nikon's mirrorless
    range. However, supplies aren't likely to be available until Q3/2011.
     
    Bruce, Feb 9, 2011
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Rich

    RichA Guest

    On Feb 9, 4:30 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    > Bowser <> wrote:
    > >On 2/9/2011 8:54 AM, Rich wrote:
    > >> On Feb 8, 7:32 pm, Bowser<>  wrote:
    > >>> On 2/8/2011 6:06 PM, Rich wrote:

    >
    > >>>> Even though they could be terrific cameras, great sensor, compact,
    > >>>> compatible with all sorts of manual legacy lenses, etc., without an EVF,
    > >>>> they are not acceptable.  Why is it so hard for Sony to do what Olympus and
    > >>>> Panasonic have already done?  Especially Olympus which has produced a very
    > >>>> good clip-on EVF.  I hope the NEX 7 has an EVF, but I doubt it will.

    >
    > >>> I'm betting that a clip on EVF is coming. I haven't seen as much as a
    > >>> rumor, but it makes sense.

    >
    > >>> BTW, Sony finally did something right and opened the E mount
    > >>> specifications to third parties for free. I like this. All those lenses
    > >>> already designed for that size sensor can be adapted, and maybe a few
    > >>> more. Unlike 4/3, which requires different focal lengths to cover like
    > >>> ranges, all the APS-C lenses already exist. For me that's the biggest
    > >>> weakness of NEX right now, the lack of lens choices. I kind of like the
    > >>> system, though, and I think Sony has done a pretty job with the control
    > >>> system for a camera so small.

    >
    > >> Yes, I've never understood those who moan about the implimentation of
    > >> in-menu controls, they can all be learned and used.  They aren't as
    > >> fast to use (generally) as buttons, but that's just the price.  My
    > >> only issue is the physical one, when you build a body that small,
    > >> hitting the wrong button can happen, so you really have to learn to be
    > >> careful, you don't have the luxury of a big DSLR body with lots of
    > >> room.

    >
    > >True. I've been using one for a few days now with no control issues.
    > >Once you update to the "03" version of the firmware and have control
    > >over the soft buttons it's much better. No wrong button pushes yet. Kit
    > >lens is kind of stiff, though. Hopefully it'll loosen up.

    >
    > There is a high-end NEX body on the way with features that will appeal
    > to DSLR users.  Expect it Q4/2011.  I hope it doesn't slip beyond that
    > date because Christmas 2011 sales will be crucial to its success.
    >
    > There will also be some high end lenses for NEX.  Hopefully there will
    > be at least one Carl Zeiss lens this year which should do justice to
    > the excellent sensor.  The 18-55mm kit zoom is absolutely atrocious
    > ... unless you're happy with the quality of kit zooms, of course.  The
    > 16mm pancake lens is even worse.
    >


    Camera companies could ease their lens design/cost burden by shifting
    from the 3:2 format to 4:3. Less cropping for print ads and things as
    well.
     
    RichA, Feb 10, 2011
    #3
  4. Rich

    Bruce Guest

    RichA <> wrote:
    >On Feb 9, 4:30 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    >> Bowser <> wrote:
    >> >On 2/9/2011 8:54 AM, Rich wrote:
    >> >> On Feb 8, 7:32 pm, Bowser<>  wrote:
    >> >>> On 2/8/2011 6:06 PM, Rich wrote:

    >>
    >> >>>> Even though they could be terrific cameras, great sensor, compact,
    >> >>>> compatible with all sorts of manual legacy lenses, etc., without an EVF,
    >> >>>> they are not acceptable.  Why is it so hard for Sony to do what Olympus and
    >> >>>> Panasonic have already done?  Especially Olympus which has produced a very
    >> >>>> good clip-on EVF.  I hope the NEX 7 has an EVF, but I doubt it will.

    >>
    >> >>> I'm betting that a clip on EVF is coming. I haven't seen as much as a
    >> >>> rumor, but it makes sense.

    >>
    >> >>> BTW, Sony finally did something right and opened the E mount
    >> >>> specifications to third parties for free. I like this. All those lenses
    >> >>> already designed for that size sensor can be adapted, and maybe a few
    >> >>> more. Unlike 4/3, which requires different focal lengths to cover like
    >> >>> ranges, all the APS-C lenses already exist. For me that's the biggest
    >> >>> weakness of NEX right now, the lack of lens choices. I kind of like the
    >> >>> system, though, and I think Sony has done a pretty job with the control
    >> >>> system for a camera so small.

    >>
    >> >> Yes, I've never understood those who moan about the implimentation of
    >> >> in-menu controls, they can all be learned and used.  They aren't as
    >> >> fast to use (generally) as buttons, but that's just the price.  My
    >> >> only issue is the physical one, when you build a body that small,
    >> >> hitting the wrong button can happen, so you really have to learn to be
    >> >> careful, you don't have the luxury of a big DSLR body with lots of
    >> >> room.

    >>
    >> >True. I've been using one for a few days now with no control issues.
    >> >Once you update to the "03" version of the firmware and have control
    >> >over the soft buttons it's much better. No wrong button pushes yet. Kit
    >> >lens is kind of stiff, though. Hopefully it'll loosen up.

    >>
    >> There is a high-end NEX body on the way with features that will appeal
    >> to DSLR users.  Expect it Q4/2011.  I hope it doesn't slip beyond that
    >> date because Christmas 2011 sales will be crucial to its success.
    >>
    >> There will also be some high end lenses for NEX.  Hopefully there will
    >> be at least one Carl Zeiss lens this year which should do justice to
    >> the excellent sensor.  The 18-55mm kit zoom is absolutely atrocious
    >> ... unless you're happy with the quality of kit zooms, of course.  The
    >> 16mm pancake lens is even worse.
    >>

    >
    >Camera companies could ease their lens design/cost burden by shifting
    >from the 3:2 format to 4:3. Less cropping for print ads and things as
    >well.




    The bad penny makes its twenty millionth appearance.

    Very original, Rich. Not.
     
    Bruce, Feb 10, 2011
    #4
  5. Rich

    Peter N Guest

    On 2/9/2011 7:37 PM, RichA wrote:
    > On Feb 9, 4:30 pm, Bruce<> wrote:
    >> Bowser<> wrote:
    >>> On 2/9/2011 8:54 AM, Rich wrote:
    >>>> On Feb 8, 7:32 pm, Bowser<> wrote:
    >>>>> On 2/8/2011 6:06 PM, Rich wrote:

    >>
    >>>>>> Even though they could be terrific cameras, great sensor, compact,
    >>>>>> compatible with all sorts of manual legacy lenses, etc., without an EVF,
    >>>>>> they are not acceptable. Why is it so hard for Sony to do what Olympus and
    >>>>>> Panasonic have already done? Especially Olympus which has produced a very
    >>>>>> good clip-on EVF. I hope the NEX 7 has an EVF, but I doubt it will.

    >>
    >>>>> I'm betting that a clip on EVF is coming. I haven't seen as much as a
    >>>>> rumor, but it makes sense.

    >>
    >>>>> BTW, Sony finally did something right and opened the E mount
    >>>>> specifications to third parties for free. I like this. All those lenses
    >>>>> already designed for that size sensor can be adapted, and maybe a few
    >>>>> more. Unlike 4/3, which requires different focal lengths to cover like
    >>>>> ranges, all the APS-C lenses already exist. For me that's the biggest
    >>>>> weakness of NEX right now, the lack of lens choices. I kind of like the
    >>>>> system, though, and I think Sony has done a pretty job with the control
    >>>>> system for a camera so small.

    >>
    >>>> Yes, I've never understood those who moan about the implimentation of
    >>>> in-menu controls, they can all be learned and used. They aren't as
    >>>> fast to use (generally) as buttons, but that's just the price. My
    >>>> only issue is the physical one, when you build a body that small,
    >>>> hitting the wrong button can happen, so you really have to learn to be
    >>>> careful, you don't have the luxury of a big DSLR body with lots of
    >>>> room.

    >>
    >>> True. I've been using one for a few days now with no control issues.
    >>> Once you update to the "03" version of the firmware and have control
    >>> over the soft buttons it's much better. No wrong button pushes yet. Kit
    >>> lens is kind of stiff, though. Hopefully it'll loosen up.

    >>
    >> There is a high-end NEX body on the way with features that will appeal
    >> to DSLR users. Expect it Q4/2011. I hope it doesn't slip beyond that
    >> date because Christmas 2011 sales will be crucial to its success.
    >>
    >> There will also be some high end lenses for NEX. Hopefully there will
    >> be at least one Carl Zeiss lens this year which should do justice to
    >> the excellent sensor. The 18-55mm kit zoom is absolutely atrocious
    >> ... unless you're happy with the quality of kit zooms, of course. The
    >> 16mm pancake lens is even worse.
    >>

    >
    > Camera companies could ease their lens design/cost burden by shifting
    > from the 3:2 format to 4:3. Less cropping for print ads and things as
    > well.
    >


    Maybe Brucie, with his close connections will recommend they hire you as
    a consultant.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter N, Feb 10, 2011
    #5
  6. Rich

    Bowser Guest

    "Bruce" wrote in message
    news:...

    >
    >True. I've been using one for a few days now with no
    >control issues.
    >Once you update to the "03" version of the firmware and
    >have control
    >over the soft buttons it's much better. No wrong button
    >pushes yet. Kit
    >lens is kind of stiff, though. Hopefully it'll loosen up.



    There is a high-end NEX body on the way with features that
    will appeal
    to DSLR users. Expect it Q4/2011. I hope it doesn't slip
    beyond that
    date because Christmas 2011 sales will be crucial to its
    success.

    There will also be some high end lenses for NEX. Hopefully
    there will
    be at least one Carl Zeiss lens this year which should do
    justice to
    the excellent sensor. The 18-55mm kit zoom is absolutely
    atrocious
    .... unless you're happy with the quality of kit zooms, of
    course. The
    16mm pancake lens is even worse.

    I have been invited to a Nikon "major product launch" next
    month
    (March) and I expect there to be some news of Nikon's
    mirrorless
    range. However, supplies aren't likely to be available
    until Q3/2011.

    ======================================================

    I must have a decent copy of the kit lens. While certainly
    not up to the standards of Canon's L zooms or good primes,
    it isn't bad. I have seen a few reviews of this lens and
    they're all over the map. Likely a pretty wide sample
    variation. The good news is that now that Sony has opened up
    the specs the third party manufacturers will offer some
    choices. I'd prefer to use a Sigma 17-70 OS lens, myself.
    It's not bad at all. Or even the Sigma 18-125 OS. I think
    either of those might be a good match for the NEX.

    Anyway, my goal for the NEX was a substitute for those times
    when my GD back acts up and I need to lighten up, and for
    those times when I'm just taking snaps. Like later this
    month in Harry Potter world and Disney. No way I'm lugging a
    5D II down there.
     
    Bowser, Feb 10, 2011
    #6
  7. Rich

    Bruce Guest

    "Bowser" <> wrote:
    >"Bruce" wrote in message
    >>There is a high-end NEX body on the way with features that will appeal
    >>to DSLR users. Expect it Q4/2011. I hope it doesn't slip beyond that
    >>date because Christmas 2011 sales will be crucial to its success.
    >>
    >>There will also be some high end lenses for NEX. Hopefully there will
    >>be at least one Carl Zeiss lens this year which should do justice to
    >>the excellent sensor. The 18-55mm kit zoom is absolutely
    >>atrocious ... unless you're happy with the quality of kit zooms, of
    >>course. The 16mm pancake lens is even worse.

    >
    >I must have a decent copy of the kit lens. While certainly
    >not up to the standards of Canon's L zooms or good primes,
    >it isn't bad. I have seen a few reviews of this lens and
    >they're all over the map. Likely a pretty wide sample
    >variation. The good news is that now that Sony has opened up
    >the specs the third party manufacturers will offer some
    >choices. I'd prefer to use a Sigma 17-70 OS lens, myself.
    >It's not bad at all. Or even the Sigma 18-125 OS. I think
    >either of those might be a good match for the NEX.



    These lenses are all likely to be comparable. If that's all you need,
    you might as well buy one that you know and are happy with.

    I haven't tried the Sony 18-200mm but we have sold three or four and
    the customers seem happy with them. That might be another option.


    >Anyway, my goal for the NEX was a substitute for those times
    >when my GD back acts up and I need to lighten up, and for
    >those times when I'm just taking snaps. Like later this
    >month in Harry Potter world and Disney. No way I'm lugging a
    >5D II down there.



    NEX is probably a better choice than any of the Panalympus Micro Four
    Thirds models. The IQ of the sensor is superior to any Four Thirds
    sensor that has yet been offered, and by a significant margin, but the
    NEX lenses are a weak point.

    However, Sony's decision to offer the interface to anyone who wants to
    make lenses for the E mount is a game changer, and it will ensure the
    success of NEX. Nikon and Canon have a heck of a lot of catching up
    to do, and they must hope that they have used their time wisely to
    come up with something that will be even better.

    Meanwhile, the only cameras in the Sony Alpha range that are selling
    are the A33 and A55. Despite large price reductions, sales of the
    recently introduced Alpha DSLRs are at a near standstill. I
    understand that the A77 SLT replacement for the A700 DSLR is still
    going to happen, but the future of the remaining Alpha DSLRs looks
    very bleak indeed.
     
    Bruce, Feb 10, 2011
    #7
  8. Rich

    Rich Guest

    On Feb 9, 1:44 pm, Bowser <> wrote:
    > On 2/9/2011 8:54 AM, Rich wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Feb 8, 7:32 pm, Bowser<>  wrote:
    > >> On 2/8/2011 6:06 PM, Rich wrote:

    >
    > >>> Even though they could be terrific cameras, great sensor, compact,
    > >>> compatible with all sorts of manual legacy lenses, etc., without an EVF,
    > >>> they are not acceptable.  Why is it so hard for Sony to do what Olympus and
    > >>> Panasonic have already done?  Especially Olympus which has produced a very
    > >>> good clip-on EVF.  I hope the NEX 7 has an EVF, but I doubt it will..

    >
    > >> I'm betting that a clip on EVF is coming. I haven't seen as much as a
    > >> rumor, but it makes sense.

    >
    > >> BTW, Sony finally did something right and opened the E mount
    > >> specifications to third parties for free. I like this. All those lenses
    > >> already designed for that size sensor can be adapted, and maybe a few
    > >> more. Unlike 4/3, which requires different focal lengths to cover like
    > >> ranges, all the APS-C lenses already exist. For me that's the biggest
    > >> weakness of NEX right now, the lack of lens choices. I kind of like the
    > >> system, though, and I think Sony has done a pretty job with the control
    > >> system for a camera so small.

    >
    > > Yes, I've never understood those who moan about the implimentation of
    > > in-menu controls, they can all be learned and used.  They aren't as
    > > fast to use (generally) as buttons, but that's just the price.  My
    > > only issue is the physical one, when you build a body that small,
    > > hitting the wrong button can happen, so you really have to learn to be
    > > careful, you don't have the luxury of a big DSLR body with lots of
    > > room.

    >
    > True. I've been using one for a few days now with no control issues.
    > Once you update to the "03" version of the firmware and have control
    > over the soft buttons it's much better. No wrong button pushes yet. Kit
    > lens is kind of stiff, though. Hopefully it'll loosen up.


    But at least it has a metal outer body, which is nice.
     
    Rich, Feb 10, 2011
    #8
  9. Rich

    Rich Guest

    On Feb 9, 4:30 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    > Bowser <> wrote:
    > >On 2/9/2011 8:54 AM, Rich wrote:
    > >> On Feb 8, 7:32 pm, Bowser<>  wrote:
    > >>> On 2/8/2011 6:06 PM, Rich wrote:

    >
    > >>>> Even though they could be terrific cameras, great sensor, compact,
    > >>>> compatible with all sorts of manual legacy lenses, etc., without an EVF,
    > >>>> they are not acceptable.  Why is it so hard for Sony to do what Olympus and
    > >>>> Panasonic have already done?  Especially Olympus which has produced a very
    > >>>> good clip-on EVF.  I hope the NEX 7 has an EVF, but I doubt it will.

    >
    > >>> I'm betting that a clip on EVF is coming. I haven't seen as much as a
    > >>> rumor, but it makes sense.

    >
    > >>> BTW, Sony finally did something right and opened the E mount
    > >>> specifications to third parties for free. I like this. All those lenses
    > >>> already designed for that size sensor can be adapted, and maybe a few
    > >>> more. Unlike 4/3, which requires different focal lengths to cover like
    > >>> ranges, all the APS-C lenses already exist. For me that's the biggest
    > >>> weakness of NEX right now, the lack of lens choices. I kind of like the
    > >>> system, though, and I think Sony has done a pretty job with the control
    > >>> system for a camera so small.

    >
    > >> Yes, I've never understood those who moan about the implimentation of
    > >> in-menu controls, they can all be learned and used.  They aren't as
    > >> fast to use (generally) as buttons, but that's just the price.  My
    > >> only issue is the physical one, when you build a body that small,
    > >> hitting the wrong button can happen, so you really have to learn to be
    > >> careful, you don't have the luxury of a big DSLR body with lots of
    > >> room.

    >
    > >True. I've been using one for a few days now with no control issues.
    > >Once you update to the "03" version of the firmware and have control
    > >over the soft buttons it's much better. No wrong button pushes yet. Kit
    > >lens is kind of stiff, though. Hopefully it'll loosen up.

    >
    > There is a high-end NEX body on the way with features that will appeal
    > to DSLR users.  Expect it Q4/2011.  I hope it doesn't slip beyond that
    > date because Christmas 2011 sales will be crucial to its success.
    >
    > There will also be some high end lenses for NEX.  Hopefully there will
    > be at least one Carl Zeiss lens this year which should do justice to
    > the excellent sensor.  The 18-55mm kit zoom is absolutely atrocious
    > ... unless you're happy with the quality of kit zooms, of course.  The
    > 16mm pancake lens is even worse.
    >
    > I have been invited to a Nikon "major product launch" next month
    > (March) and I expect there to be some news of Nikon's mirrorless
    > range.  However, supplies aren't likely to be available until Q3/2011.


    It's better than I'd hoped.
     
    Rich, Feb 10, 2011
    #9
  10. Rich

    Rich Guest

    On Feb 9, 8:14 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    > RichA <> wrote:
    > >On Feb 9, 4:30 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    > >> Bowser <> wrote:
    > >> >On 2/9/2011 8:54 AM, Rich wrote:
    > >> >> On Feb 8, 7:32 pm, Bowser<>  wrote:
    > >> >>> On 2/8/2011 6:06 PM, Rich wrote:

    >
    > >> >>>> Even though they could be terrific cameras, great sensor, compact,
    > >> >>>> compatible with all sorts of manual legacy lenses, etc., without an EVF,
    > >> >>>> they are not acceptable.  Why is it so hard for Sony to do what Olympus and
    > >> >>>> Panasonic have already done?  Especially Olympus which has produced a very
    > >> >>>> good clip-on EVF.  I hope the NEX 7 has an EVF, but I doubt it will.

    >
    > >> >>> I'm betting that a clip on EVF is coming. I haven't seen as much as a
    > >> >>> rumor, but it makes sense.

    >
    > >> >>> BTW, Sony finally did something right and opened the E mount
    > >> >>> specifications to third parties for free. I like this. All those lenses
    > >> >>> already designed for that size sensor can be adapted, and maybe a few
    > >> >>> more. Unlike 4/3, which requires different focal lengths to cover like
    > >> >>> ranges, all the APS-C lenses already exist. For me that's the biggest
    > >> >>> weakness of NEX right now, the lack of lens choices. I kind of like the
    > >> >>> system, though, and I think Sony has done a pretty job with the control
    > >> >>> system for a camera so small.

    >
    > >> >> Yes, I've never understood those who moan about the implimentation of
    > >> >> in-menu controls, they can all be learned and used.  They aren't as
    > >> >> fast to use (generally) as buttons, but that's just the price.  My
    > >> >> only issue is the physical one, when you build a body that small,
    > >> >> hitting the wrong button can happen, so you really have to learn to be
    > >> >> careful, you don't have the luxury of a big DSLR body with lots of
    > >> >> room.

    >
    > >> >True. I've been using one for a few days now with no control issues.
    > >> >Once you update to the "03" version of the firmware and have control
    > >> >over the soft buttons it's much better. No wrong button pushes yet. Kit
    > >> >lens is kind of stiff, though. Hopefully it'll loosen up.

    >
    > >> There is a high-end NEX body on the way with features that will appeal
    > >> to DSLR users.  Expect it Q4/2011.  I hope it doesn't slip beyond that
    > >> date because Christmas 2011 sales will be crucial to its success.

    >
    > >> There will also be some high end lenses for NEX.  Hopefully there will
    > >> be at least one Carl Zeiss lens this year which should do justice to
    > >> the excellent sensor.  The 18-55mm kit zoom is absolutely atrocious
    > >> ... unless you're happy with the quality of kit zooms, of course.  The
    > >> 16mm pancake lens is even worse.

    >
    > >Camera companies could ease their lens design/cost burden by shifting
    > >from the 3:2 format to 4:3.  Less cropping for print ads and things as
    > >well.

    >
    > The bad penny makes its twenty millionth appearance.
    >
    > Very original, Rich.  Not.


    It's a matter of pure practicality, not esthetics. More published
    images match or are similar to the 4:3rds format than the 3:2 format.
    It's been that way forever.
     
    Rich, Feb 10, 2011
    #10
  11. Rich

    Rich Guest

    On Feb 10, 12:46 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    > "Bowser" <> wrote:
    > >"Bruce"  wrote in message
    > >>There is a high-end NEX body on the way with features that will appeal
    > >>to DSLR users.  Expect it Q4/2011.  I hope it doesn't slip beyond that
    > >>date because Christmas 2011 sales will be crucial to its success.

    >
    > >>There will also be some high end lenses for NEX.  Hopefully there will
    > >>be at least one Carl Zeiss lens this year which should do justice to
    > >>the excellent sensor.  The 18-55mm kit zoom is absolutely
    > >>atrocious ... unless you're happy with the quality of kit zooms, of
    > >>course.  The 16mm pancake lens is even worse.

    >
    > >I must have a decent copy of the kit lens. While certainly
    > >not up to the standards of Canon's L zooms or good primes,
    > >it isn't bad. I have seen a few reviews of this lens and
    > >they're all over the map. Likely a pretty wide sample
    > >variation. The good news is that now that Sony has opened up
    > >the specs the third party manufacturers will offer some
    > >choices. I'd prefer to use a Sigma 17-70 OS lens, myself.
    > >It's not bad at all. Or even the Sigma 18-125 OS. I think
    > >either of those might be a good match for the NEX.

    >
    > These lenses are all likely to be comparable.  If that's all you need,
    > you might as well buy one that you know and are happy with.
    >
    > I haven't tried the Sony 18-200mm but we have sold three or four and
    > the customers seem happy with them.  That might be another option.
    >
    > >Anyway, my goal for the NEX was a substitute for those times
    > >when my GD back acts up and I need to lighten up, and for
    > >those times when I'm just taking snaps. Like later this
    > >month in Harry Potter world and Disney. No way I'm lugging a
    > >5D II down there.

    >
    > NEX is probably a better choice than any of the Panalympus Micro Four
    > Thirds models.  The IQ of the sensor is superior to any Four Thirds
    > sensor that has yet been offered, and by a significant margin, but the
    > NEX lenses are a weak point.  
    >


    Yes, nothing like a low-noise images that is unsharp and aberrated.
     
    Rich, Feb 10, 2011
    #11
  12. Rich

    Bruce Guest

    Rich <> wrote:

    >On Feb 9, 8:14 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    >> RichA <> wrote:
    >> >On Feb 9, 4:30 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    >> >> Bowser <> wrote:
    >> >> >On 2/9/2011 8:54 AM, Rich wrote:
    >> >> >> On Feb 8, 7:32 pm, Bowser<>  wrote:
    >> >> >>> On 2/8/2011 6:06 PM, Rich wrote:

    >>
    >> >> >>>> Even though they could be terrific cameras, great sensor, compact,
    >> >> >>>> compatible with all sorts of manual legacy lenses, etc., without an EVF,
    >> >> >>>> they are not acceptable.  Why is it so hard for Sony to do what Olympus and
    >> >> >>>> Panasonic have already done?  Especially Olympus which has produced a very
    >> >> >>>> good clip-on EVF.  I hope the NEX 7 has an EVF, but I doubt it will.

    >>
    >> >> >>> I'm betting that a clip on EVF is coming. I haven't seen as much as a
    >> >> >>> rumor, but it makes sense.

    >>
    >> >> >>> BTW, Sony finally did something right and opened the E mount
    >> >> >>> specifications to third parties for free. I like this. All those lenses
    >> >> >>> already designed for that size sensor can be adapted, and maybe a few
    >> >> >>> more. Unlike 4/3, which requires different focal lengths to cover like
    >> >> >>> ranges, all the APS-C lenses already exist. For me that's the biggest
    >> >> >>> weakness of NEX right now, the lack of lens choices. I kind of like the
    >> >> >>> system, though, and I think Sony has done a pretty job with the control
    >> >> >>> system for a camera so small.

    >>
    >> >> >> Yes, I've never understood those who moan about the implimentation of
    >> >> >> in-menu controls, they can all be learned and used.  They aren't as
    >> >> >> fast to use (generally) as buttons, but that's just the price.  My
    >> >> >> only issue is the physical one, when you build a body that small,
    >> >> >> hitting the wrong button can happen, so you really have to learn to be
    >> >> >> careful, you don't have the luxury of a big DSLR body with lots of
    >> >> >> room.

    >>
    >> >> >True. I've been using one for a few days now with no control issues.
    >> >> >Once you update to the "03" version of the firmware and have control
    >> >> >over the soft buttons it's much better. No wrong button pushes yet. Kit
    >> >> >lens is kind of stiff, though. Hopefully it'll loosen up.

    >>
    >> >> There is a high-end NEX body on the way with features that will appeal
    >> >> to DSLR users.  Expect it Q4/2011.  I hope it doesn't slip beyond that
    >> >> date because Christmas 2011 sales will be crucial to its success.

    >>
    >> >> There will also be some high end lenses for NEX.  Hopefully there will
    >> >> be at least one Carl Zeiss lens this year which should do justice to
    >> >> the excellent sensor.  The 18-55mm kit zoom is absolutely atrocious
    >> >> ... unless you're happy with the quality of kit zooms, of course.  The
    >> >> 16mm pancake lens is even worse.

    >>
    >> >Camera companies could ease their lens design/cost burden by shifting
    >> >from the 3:2 format to 4:3.  Less cropping for print ads and things as
    >> >well.

    >>
    >> The bad penny makes its twenty millionth appearance.
    >>
    >> Very original, Rich.  Not.

    >
    >It's a matter of pure practicality, not esthetics. More published
    >images match or are similar to the 4:3rds format than the 3:2 format.
    >It's been that way forever.



    The 20,000,001st appearance.
     
    Bruce, Feb 10, 2011
    #12
  13. Rich wrote:
    > On Feb 9, 8:14 pm, Bruce<> wrote:
    >> RichA<> wrote:
    >>> On Feb 9, 4:30 pm, Bruce<> wrote:
    >>>> Bowser<> wrote:
    >>>>> On 2/9/2011 8:54 AM, Rich wrote:
    >>>>>> On Feb 8, 7:32 pm, Bowser<> wrote:
    >>>>>>> On 2/8/2011 6:06 PM, Rich wrote:

    >>
    >>>>>>>> Even though they could be terrific cameras, great sensor, compact,
    >>>>>>>> compatible with all sorts of manual legacy lenses, etc., without an EVF,
    >>>>>>>> they are not acceptable. Why is it so hard for Sony to do what Olympus and
    >>>>>>>> Panasonic have already done? Especially Olympus which has produced a very
    >>>>>>>> good clip-on EVF. I hope the NEX 7 has an EVF, but I doubt it will.

    >>
    >>>>>>> I'm betting that a clip on EVF is coming. I haven't seen as much as a
    >>>>>>> rumor, but it makes sense.

    >>
    >>>>>>> BTW, Sony finally did something right and opened the E mount
    >>>>>>> specifications to third parties for free. I like this. All those lenses
    >>>>>>> already designed for that size sensor can be adapted, and maybe a few
    >>>>>>> more. Unlike 4/3, which requires different focal lengths to cover like
    >>>>>>> ranges, all the APS-C lenses already exist. For me that's the biggest
    >>>>>>> weakness of NEX right now, the lack of lens choices. I kind of like the
    >>>>>>> system, though, and I think Sony has done a pretty job with the control
    >>>>>>> system for a camera so small.

    >>
    >>>>>> Yes, I've never understood those who moan about the implimentation of
    >>>>>> in-menu controls, they can all be learned and used. They aren't as
    >>>>>> fast to use (generally) as buttons, but that's just the price. My
    >>>>>> only issue is the physical one, when you build a body that small,
    >>>>>> hitting the wrong button can happen, so you really have to learn to be
    >>>>>> careful, you don't have the luxury of a big DSLR body with lots of
    >>>>>> room.

    >>
    >>>>> True. I've been using one for a few days now with no control issues.
    >>>>> Once you update to the "03" version of the firmware and have control
    >>>>> over the soft buttons it's much better. No wrong button pushes yet. Kit
    >>>>> lens is kind of stiff, though. Hopefully it'll loosen up.

    >>
    >>>> There is a high-end NEX body on the way with features that will appeal
    >>>> to DSLR users. Expect it Q4/2011. I hope it doesn't slip beyond that
    >>>> date because Christmas 2011 sales will be crucial to its success.

    >>
    >>>> There will also be some high end lenses for NEX. Hopefully there will
    >>>> be at least one Carl Zeiss lens this year which should do justice to
    >>>> the excellent sensor. The 18-55mm kit zoom is absolutely atrocious
    >>>> ... unless you're happy with the quality of kit zooms, of course. The
    >>>> 16mm pancake lens is even worse.

    >>
    >>> Camera companies could ease their lens design/cost burden by shifting
    >> >from the 3:2 format to 4:3. Less cropping for print ads and things as
    >>> well.

    >>
    >> The bad penny makes its twenty millionth appearance.
    >>
    >> Very original, Rich. Not.

    >
    > It's a matter of pure practicality, not esthetics. More published
    > images match or are similar to the 4:3rds format than the 3:2 format.
    > It's been that way forever.


    I take pix with the highest quality setting on JPEG and the format with
    the most pixels. I can always crop afterwards, if necessary.

    Mort Linder
     
    Morton Linder, Feb 11, 2011
    #13
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