Re: Why Blu-ray has already won: Burners

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Fred Liken, Jul 17, 2006.

  1. Fred Liken

    Fred Liken Guest

    "Blig Merk" <> wrote in message

    > BenQ, LG, Phillips and Panasonic all have Blu-ray burner PC drives,
    > already on the market or showing up next month for less than $1000.
    > Both the Sony Vaio laptop and desktop have dual layer Blu-ray burners.


    Unless you can use those for piracy, it's moot for the video end.
    Fred Liken, Jul 17, 2006
    #1
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  2. Fred Liken

    Doug Jacobs Guest

    In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Fred Liken <> wrote:
    > "Blig Merk" <> wrote in message


    > > BenQ, LG, Phillips and Panasonic all have Blu-ray burner PC drives,
    > > already on the market or showing up next month for less than $1000.
    > > Both the Sony Vaio laptop and desktop have dual layer Blu-ray burners.


    > Unless you can use those for piracy, it's moot for the video end.
    Doug Jacobs, Jul 17, 2006
    #2
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  3. Fred Liken

    Doug Jacobs Guest

    In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Doug Jacobs <> wrote:

    > > Unless you can use those for piracy, it's moot for the video end.


    Darnit, my finger slipped.

    Anyways, I was going to say aren't the players supposed to already support
    BR-R?

    Or are we going to see a repeat of the DVD silliness where burnable discs
    will only be readable by burners until the successive generations of BR
    players come out with the ability to read BR-R and other formats?

    Surely they wouldn't be that silly...would they? (don't answer that! ;)

    Maybe should we just wait for the "BR players" that can stream video over
    your LAN-connected server - only without the BR drive in it. Reminds me of
    Bender's idea of what an Amusement Park should be ;)
    Doug Jacobs, Jul 17, 2006
    #3
  4. Fred Liken

    Fred Liken Guest

    "Doug Jacobs" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Doug Jacobs <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> > Unless you can use those for piracy, it's moot for the video end.

    >
    > Darnit, my finger slipped.


    I just figured you QFT.

    > Anyways, I was going to say aren't the players supposed to already support
    > BR-R?


    Dunno. I did read the DRM had been hacked, though, I think.
    Fred Liken, Jul 18, 2006
    #4
  5. Fred Liken

    Tarkus Guest

    On 7/17/2006 4:32:07 PM, Fred Liken wrote:

    > I did read the DRM had been hacked, though, I think.


    Not really. They just discovered that you can save a frame using the
    print screen function. You'd still have to find a way to automate saving
    EVERY frame, and then reencoding it into a video format.

    Or just point a camcorder at your monitor. ;)
    --
    "Good evening, I'm Leonard Nimoy. The following tale of alien
    encounters is true. And by true I mean false. It's all lies. But
    they're entertaining lies, so in the end, isn't that the truth? The
    answer is 'no.'"

    Now playing: "Grand Funk Railroad - Heartbreaker"
    Tarkus, Jul 18, 2006
    #5
  6. On 17 Jul 2006 15:42:06 -0500, "Fred Liken"
    <> Gave us:

    >"Blig Merk" <> wrote in message
    >
    >> BenQ, LG, Phillips and Panasonic all have Blu-ray burner PC drives,
    >> already on the market or showing up next month for less than $1000.
    >> Both the Sony Vaio laptop and desktop have dual layer Blu-ray burners.

    >
    >Unless you can use those for piracy, it's moot for the video end.
    >

    You will NEVER be able to burn a disc that carries the full
    resolution or original bit stream as the source. Bit for bit recording
    goes away with these new technologies.

    Don't believe me? Good luck.
    Phat Bytestard, Jul 18, 2006
    #6
  7. On 17 Jul 2006 18:32:07 -0500, "Fred Liken"
    <> Gave us:

    >"Doug Jacobs" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Doug Jacobs <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> > Unless you can use those for piracy, it's moot for the video end.

    >>
    >> Darnit, my finger slipped.

    >
    >I just figured you QFT.


    He was talking about his left hand. :-]
    >
    >> Anyways, I was going to say aren't the players supposed to already support
    >> BR-R?

    >
    >Dunno. I did read the DRM had been hacked, though, I think.
    Phat Bytestard, Jul 18, 2006
    #7
  8. Fred Liken

    knight37 Guest

    Phat Bytestard wrote:
    > On 17 Jul 2006 15:42:06 -0500, "Fred Liken"
    > <> Gave us:
    >
    > >"Blig Merk" <> wrote in message
    > >
    > >> BenQ, LG, Phillips and Panasonic all have Blu-ray burner PC drives,
    > >> already on the market or showing up next month for less than $1000.
    > >> Both the Sony Vaio laptop and desktop have dual layer Blu-ray burners.

    > >
    > >Unless you can use those for piracy, it's moot for the video end.
    > >

    > You will NEVER be able to burn a disc that carries the full
    > resolution or original bit stream as the source. Bit for bit recording
    > goes away with these new technologies.
    >
    > Don't believe me? Good luck.


    I am betting Blu-Ray gets cracked by 2008, and by cracked, I mean
    people are able to rip high-definition films to their hard drive and
    play them on their PC or stream them to a media device in the living
    room in high def.

    Knight37
    knight37, Jul 18, 2006
    #8
  9. Fred Liken

    Goro Guest

    Phat Bytestard wrote:
    > On 17 Jul 2006 15:42:06 -0500, "Fred Liken"
    > <> Gave us:
    >
    > >"Blig Merk" <> wrote in message
    > >
    > >> BenQ, LG, Phillips and Panasonic all have Blu-ray burner PC drives,
    > >> already on the market or showing up next month for less than $1000.
    > >> Both the Sony Vaio laptop and desktop have dual layer Blu-ray burners.

    > >
    > >Unless you can use those for piracy, it's moot for the video end.
    > >

    > You will NEVER be able to burn a disc that carries the full
    > resolution or original bit stream as the source. Bit for bit recording
    > goes away with these new technologies.
    >
    > Don't believe me? Good luck.


    BluRay (or HDDVD) becomes interesting as soon as there is a player that
    can play burned content. If i could reauthor from DVDs and make a
    15GB DVD then I would be interested... not at the $1000 price point,
    but interested. Additionally, if there's a DivX player that reads
    Bluray media, again, more interested. And if it reads h.264....

    -goro-
    Goro, Jul 19, 2006
    #9
  10. On 18 Jul 2006 13:35:57 -0700, "knight37" <> Gave
    us:

    >Phat Bytestard wrote:
    >> On 17 Jul 2006 15:42:06 -0500, "Fred Liken"
    >> <> Gave us:
    >>
    >> >"Blig Merk" <> wrote in message
    >> >
    >> >> BenQ, LG, Phillips and Panasonic all have Blu-ray burner PC drives,
    >> >> already on the market or showing up next month for less than $1000.
    >> >> Both the Sony Vaio laptop and desktop have dual layer Blu-ray burners.
    >> >
    >> >Unless you can use those for piracy, it's moot for the video end.
    >> >

    >> You will NEVER be able to burn a disc that carries the full
    >> resolution or original bit stream as the source. Bit for bit recording
    >> goes away with these new technologies.
    >>
    >> Don't believe me? Good luck.

    >
    >I am betting Blu-Ray gets cracked by 2008, and by cracked, I mean
    >people are able to rip high-definition films to their hard drive and
    >play them on their PC or stream them to a media device in the living
    >room in high def.
    >


    You obviously have little knowledge of encryption.

    The HD realm will never be cracked.

    Take satellite TV for an example. First series (just like DVD) was
    cracked, and there were hacked receivers all over the country.

    Then, VideoCypher I, and VideoCypher II came out. Neither have as
    yet been cracked. THEN, DigiCypher I and DigiCypher II came out, and
    they won't ever get cracked either.

    Now, HD DVD has taken on many of the same methodologies, and your
    lame attempts at cracking it won't happen, and won't work even if you
    could crack a single disc. There is more than one key.

    You won't be getting any of them, however.
    Phat Bytestard, Jul 19, 2006
    #10
  11. Fred Liken

    Alpha Guest

    "Phat Bytestard" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 18 Jul 2006 13:35:57 -0700, "knight37" <> Gave
    > us:
    >
    >>Phat Bytestard wrote:
    >>> On 17 Jul 2006 15:42:06 -0500, "Fred Liken"
    >>> <> Gave us:
    >>>
    >>> >"Blig Merk" <> wrote in message
    >>> >
    >>> >> BenQ, LG, Phillips and Panasonic all have Blu-ray burner PC drives,
    >>> >> already on the market or showing up next month for less than $1000.
    >>> >> Both the Sony Vaio laptop and desktop have dual layer Blu-ray
    >>> >> burners.
    >>> >
    >>> >Unless you can use those for piracy, it's moot for the video end.
    >>> >
    >>> You will NEVER be able to burn a disc that carries the full
    >>> resolution or original bit stream as the source. Bit for bit recording
    >>> goes away with these new technologies.
    >>>
    >>> Don't believe me? Good luck.

    >>
    >>I am betting Blu-Ray gets cracked by 2008, and by cracked, I mean
    >>people are able to rip high-definition films to their hard drive and
    >>play them on their PC or stream them to a media device in the living
    >>room in high def.
    >>

    >
    > You obviously have little knowledge of encryption.
    >
    > The HD realm will never be cracked.
    >
    > Take satellite TV for an example. First series (just like DVD) was
    > cracked, and there were hacked receivers all over the country.
    >
    > Then, VideoCypher I, and VideoCypher II came out. Neither have as
    > yet been cracked. THEN, DigiCypher I and DigiCypher II came out, and
    > they won't ever get cracked either.
    >
    > Now, HD DVD has taken on many of the same methodologies, and your
    > lame attempts at cracking it won't happen, and won't work even if you
    > could crack a single disc. There is more than one key.
    >
    > You won't be getting any of them, however.


    Then encryption is also re-programmable via each disc.
    Alpha, Jul 19, 2006
    #11
  12. In article <>, Alpha <>
    wrote:

    > "Phat Bytestard" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On 18 Jul 2006 13:35:57 -0700, "knight37" <> Gave
    > > us:
    > >
    > >>Phat Bytestard wrote:
    > >>> On 17 Jul 2006 15:42:06 -0500, "Fred Liken"
    > >>> <> Gave us:
    > >>>
    > >>> >"Blig Merk" <> wrote in message
    > >>> >
    > >>> >> BenQ, LG, Phillips and Panasonic all have Blu-ray burner PC drives,
    > >>> >> already on the market or showing up next month for less than $1000.
    > >>> >> Both the Sony Vaio laptop and desktop have dual layer Blu-ray
    > >>> >> burners.
    > >>> >
    > >>> >Unless you can use those for piracy, it's moot for the video end.
    > >>> >
    > >>> You will NEVER be able to burn a disc that carries the full
    > >>> resolution or original bit stream as the source. Bit for bit recording
    > >>> goes away with these new technologies.
    > >>>
    > >>> Don't believe me? Good luck.
    > >>
    > >>I am betting Blu-Ray gets cracked by 2008, and by cracked, I mean
    > >>people are able to rip high-definition films to their hard drive and
    > >>play them on their PC or stream them to a media device in the living
    > >>room in high def.
    > >>

    > >
    > > You obviously have little knowledge of encryption.
    > >
    > > The HD realm will never be cracked.
    > >
    > > Take satellite TV for an example. First series (just like DVD) was
    > > cracked, and there were hacked receivers all over the country.
    > >
    > > Then, VideoCypher I, and VideoCypher II came out. Neither have as
    > > yet been cracked. THEN, DigiCypher I and DigiCypher II came out, and
    > > they won't ever get cracked either.
    > >
    > > Now, HD DVD has taken on many of the same methodologies, and your
    > > lame attempts at cracking it won't happen, and won't work even if you
    > > could crack a single disc. There is more than one key.
    > >
    > > You won't be getting any of them, however.

    >
    > Then encryption is also re-programmable via each disc.
    >
    >
    >


    Any encryption system can be broken, given enough time, effort and
    resources. It's mainly a matter of stubbornness on the part of the
    person doing the reverse engineering!

    BTW, there are those who have claimed to have broken both the
    VideoCypher and DigiCypher encryptions, although I have no real source
    for this.
    Heinrich Galland, Jul 19, 2006
    #12
  13. Fred Liken

    Doug Jacobs Guest

    In alt.games.video.xbox Phat Bytestard <> wrote:

    > You obviously have little knowledge of encryption.


    You too, obviously.

    Any encryption routine can be cracked. It's just a matter of time,
    computing power, and determination.

    Even then, the strongest locks in the world won't make a bit of difference
    if the theives just drive a truck through the wall. In other words, you may
    not have to crack the encryption if you can otherwise bypass it altogether.
    Doug Jacobs, Jul 20, 2006
    #13
  14. On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:20:29 -0000, Doug Jacobs
    <> Gave us:

    >Any encryption routine can be cracked. It's just a matter of time,
    >computing power, and determination.


    VideoCypher I and II as well as DigiCypher I and II have yet to be.
    They have been around for decades.

    You lose. There are even false keys in the stream. Have fun... good
    luck... see ya in the next life, turkey. Bwuahahahaha!
    Phat Bytestard, Jul 21, 2006
    #14
  15. On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:20:29 -0000, Doug Jacobs
    <> Gave us:

    >Even then, the strongest locks in the world won't make a bit of difference
    >if the theives just drive a truck through the wall.


    Stupid analogy.

    > In other words, you may
    >not have to crack the encryption if you can otherwise bypass it altogether.


    It isn't some stupid console gaming system.

    Not if the firmware checks for it in more than one location and at
    more than one instance during playback. You won't be hacking these
    players any time soon.

    HD, High res signals won't be on your DVR any time soon either. Even
    those that would claim so have a dumbed down (overtly compressed)
    datagram.

    Good luck with that.
    Phat Bytestard, Jul 21, 2006
    #15
  16. Fred Liken

    GMAN Guest

    In article <>, Phat Bytestard <> wrote:
    >On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:20:29 -0000, Doug Jacobs
    ><> Gave us:
    >
    >>Even then, the strongest locks in the world won't make a bit of difference
    >>if the theives just drive a truck through the wall.

    >
    > Stupid analogy.
    >
    >> In other words, you may
    >>not have to crack the encryption if you can otherwise bypass it altogether.

    >
    > It isn't some stupid console gaming system.
    >
    > Not if the firmware checks for it in more than one location and at
    >more than one instance during playback. You won't be hacking these
    >players any time soon.
    >
    > HD, High res signals won't be on your DVR any time soon either. Even
    >those that would claim so have a dumbed down (overtly compressed)
    >datagram.
    >
    > Good luck with that.

    WTF are you talking about? I already own a HiDef DirecTV reciever with Tivo. I
    already can record HD stuff and i have been able to for damn near 2 years now.
    GMAN, Jul 21, 2006
    #16
  17. On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 04:52:32 GMT, (GMAN) Gave us:

    >In article <>, Phat Bytestard <> wrote:
    >>On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:20:29 -0000, Doug Jacobs
    >><> Gave us:
    >>
    >>>Even then, the strongest locks in the world won't make a bit of difference
    >>>if the theives just drive a truck through the wall.

    >>
    >> Stupid analogy.
    >>
    >>> In other words, you may
    >>>not have to crack the encryption if you can otherwise bypass it altogether.

    >>
    >> It isn't some stupid console gaming system.
    >>
    >> Not if the firmware checks for it in more than one location and at
    >>more than one instance during playback. You won't be hacking these
    >>players any time soon.
    >>
    >> HD, High res signals won't be on your DVR any time soon either. Even
    >>those that would claim so have a dumbed down (overtly compressed)
    >>datagram.
    >>
    >> Good luck with that.

    >WTF are you talking about? I already own a HiDef DirecTV reciever with Tivo. I
    >already can record HD stuff and i have been able to for damn near 2 years now.



    It is wide format, but not True HD. What you watch is, but what you
    are able to record gets downgraded. And temporal recording onto a
    hard drive is NOT permanent recording on optical storage mediums.
    Phat Bytestard, Jul 21, 2006
    #17
  18. Fred Liken

    Alpha Guest

    "Phat Bytestard" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 04:52:32 GMT, (GMAN) Gave us:
    >
    >>In article <>, Phat Bytestard
    >><> wrote:
    >>>On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:20:29 -0000, Doug Jacobs
    >>><> Gave us:
    >>>
    >>>>Even then, the strongest locks in the world won't make a bit of
    >>>>difference
    >>>>if the theives just drive a truck through the wall.
    >>>
    >>> Stupid analogy.
    >>>
    >>>> In other words, you may
    >>>>not have to crack the encryption if you can otherwise bypass it
    >>>>altogether.
    >>>
    >>> It isn't some stupid console gaming system.
    >>>
    >>> Not if the firmware checks for it in more than one location and at
    >>>more than one instance during playback. You won't be hacking these
    >>>players any time soon.
    >>>
    >>> HD, High res signals won't be on your DVR any time soon either. Even
    >>>those that would claim so have a dumbed down (overtly compressed)
    >>>datagram.
    >>>
    >>> Good luck with that.

    >>WTF are you talking about? I already own a HiDef DirecTV reciever with
    >>Tivo. I
    >>already can record HD stuff and i have been able to for damn near 2 years
    >>now.

    >
    >
    > It is wide format, but not True HD. What you watch is, but what you
    > are able to record gets downgraded. And temporal recording onto a
    > hard drive is NOT permanent recording on optical storage mediums.


    It should be noted that laws have been introduced that would make Tivos that
    do not respond to copy protection streams illegal. Therefore, Tivo must
    make it possible to have its units remotely disabled....not a very good
    business model.
    Alpha, Jul 21, 2006
    #18
  19. In article <e9pmik$h4n$>, (GMAN) wrote:

    > WTF are you talking about? I already own a HiDef DirecTV reciever
    > with Tivo. I already can record HD stuff and i have been able to for
    > damn near 2 years now.


    Not to mention lots of people can record HDTV broadcasts. I have an
    Intel based iMac, a small Miglia MiniHD that plugs into the USB2, and
    its EyeTV software that displays and records full stream ATSC HD
    broadcasts like a TiVo. Works great!
    Mike O'Connor, Jul 22, 2006
    #19
  20. Fred Liken

    GMAN Guest

    In article <>, Phat Bytestard <> wrote:
    >On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 04:52:32 GMT, (GMAN) Gave us:
    >
    >>In article <>, Phat Bytestard

    > <> wrote:
    >>>On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:20:29 -0000, Doug Jacobs
    >>><> Gave us:
    >>>
    >>>>Even then, the strongest locks in the world won't make a bit of difference
    >>>>if the theives just drive a truck through the wall.
    >>>
    >>> Stupid analogy.
    >>>
    >>>> In other words, you may
    >>>>not have to crack the encryption if you can otherwise bypass it altogether.
    >>>
    >>> It isn't some stupid console gaming system.
    >>>
    >>> Not if the firmware checks for it in more than one location and at
    >>>more than one instance during playback. You won't be hacking these
    >>>players any time soon.
    >>>
    >>> HD, High res signals won't be on your DVR any time soon either. Even
    >>>those that would claim so have a dumbed down (overtly compressed)
    >>>datagram.
    >>>
    >>> Good luck with that.

    >>WTF are you talking about? I already own a HiDef DirecTV reciever with Tivo. I

    >
    >>already can record HD stuff and i have been able to for damn near 2 years now.

    >
    >
    > It is wide format, but not True HD. What you watch is, but what you
    >are able to record gets downgraded. And temporal recording onto a
    >hard drive is NOT permanent recording on optical storage mediums.

    Never said it was recorded to optical, but it is permanent as long as i choose
    not to delete it off my HR10-250 unit. I have a pair of 400 gb drives in mine.

    Actuall is is true HDTV. The way directv records the signal onto the HR10-250,
    is the actual bitstream received from the satellite as broadcast. Same with
    the OTA HDTV channel received via its built in ATSC tuner. It isnt recorded
    the same way that standalone tivo units work.
    GMAN, Jul 22, 2006
    #20
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