Re: Who is the biggest internet phone company in the world?

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Andrew Benham, Jun 24, 2011.

  1. On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:23:10 -0500, phonepro wrote:

    > What type of company is skype then? Internet messaging?


    Skype go to great lengths to point out that they are not
    a telephone company. If they were a telephone company, they
    would have been hit by fines for refusing to abide by Ofcom
    rules in the UK, e.g.:

    http://www.computeractive.co.uk/ca/news/1909035/skype-refuses-comply-999-
    ruling

    and I believe rulings in other countries (e.g. FCC in USA).
    Andrew Benham, Jun 24, 2011
    #1
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  2. Andrew Benham

    Chris Blunt Guest

    On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:20:07 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Benham
    <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:23:10 -0500, phonepro wrote:
    >
    >> What type of company is skype then? Internet messaging?

    >
    >Skype go to great lengths to point out that they are not
    >a telephone company. If they were a telephone company, they
    >would have been hit by fines for refusing to abide by Ofcom
    >rules in the UK, e.g.:
    >
    >http://www.computeractive.co.uk/ca/news/1909035/skype-refuses-comply-999-
    >ruling
    >
    >and I believe rulings in other countries (e.g. FCC in USA).


    I don't blame Skype for refusing to comply. The rule makes sense for
    UK fixed lines and mobiles, but a Skype user could be located anywhere
    in the world. The 999 service is abused enough already. Do Ofcom
    really want any Skype user anywhere in the world who happens to dial
    999 from his phone to get connected to the UK emergency service?

    Besides, there is also the question of jurisdiction. If Skype doesn't
    have a physical presence in the UK why should they by subject to UK
    rules? How many UK ISP's comply with rules from various other foreign
    governments around the world?

    Chris
    Chris Blunt, Jun 25, 2011
    #2
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  3. On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 17:51:14 +0700, Chris Blunt wrote:

    > On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:20:07 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Benham
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:23:10 -0500, phonepro wrote:
    >>
    >>> What type of company is skype then? Internet messaging?

    >>
    >>Skype go to great lengths to point out that they are not a telephone
    >>company. If they were a telephone company, they would have been hit by
    >>fines for refusing to abide by Ofcom rules in the UK, e.g.:
    >>
    >>http://www.computeractive.co.uk/ca/news/1909035/skype-refuses-

    comply-999-
    >>ruling
    >>
    >>and I believe rulings in other countries (e.g. FCC in USA).

    >
    > I don't blame Skype for refusing to comply. The rule makes sense for UK
    > fixed lines and mobiles, but a Skype user could be located anywhere in
    > the world. The 999 service is abused enough already. Do Ofcom really
    > want any Skype user anywhere in the world who happens to dial 999 from
    > his phone to get connected to the UK emergency service?


    That's a possible argument, but every UK telco providing VoIP has to
    comply with Ofcom's rule - even if they disagree with it.
    I just think the playing field should be level.
    After all, IIRC one telco got fined by Ofcom after a customer called an
    ambulance with a 999 call over VoIP and hadn't updated his home address
    with the telco - an ambulance was sent to the wrong address and the
    patient died.

    > Besides, there is also the question of jurisdiction. If Skype doesn't
    > have a physical presence in the UK why should they by subject to UK
    > rules? How many UK ISP's comply with rules from various other foreign
    > governments around the world?


    Skype offer a choice of 17 UK area codes for their Skypein service. That
    sounds like a UK presence to me. It also sounds to me rather like
    they're a telephone company, but I must be mistaken.
    Andrew Benham, Jun 27, 2011
    #3
  4. Andrew Benham

    Chris Blunt Guest

    On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:46:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Benham
    <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 17:51:14 +0700, Chris Blunt wrote:
    >
    >> On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:20:07 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Benham
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:23:10 -0500, phonepro wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> What type of company is skype then? Internet messaging?
    >>>
    >>>Skype go to great lengths to point out that they are not a telephone
    >>>company. If they were a telephone company, they would have been hit by
    >>>fines for refusing to abide by Ofcom rules in the UK, e.g.:
    >>>
    >>>http://www.computeractive.co.uk/ca/news/1909035/skype-refuses-

    >comply-999-
    >>>ruling
    >>>
    >>>and I believe rulings in other countries (e.g. FCC in USA).

    >>
    >> I don't blame Skype for refusing to comply. The rule makes sense for UK
    >> fixed lines and mobiles, but a Skype user could be located anywhere in
    >> the world. The 999 service is abused enough already. Do Ofcom really
    >> want any Skype user anywhere in the world who happens to dial 999 from
    >> his phone to get connected to the UK emergency service?

    >
    >That's a possible argument, but every UK telco providing VoIP has to
    >comply with Ofcom's rule - even if they disagree with it.
    >I just think the playing field should be level.
    >After all, IIRC one telco got fined by Ofcom after a customer called an
    >ambulance with a 999 call over VoIP and hadn't updated his home address
    >with the telco - an ambulance was sent to the wrong address and the
    >patient died.
    >
    >> Besides, there is also the question of jurisdiction. If Skype doesn't
    >> have a physical presence in the UK why should they by subject to UK
    >> rules? How many UK ISP's comply with rules from various other foreign
    >> governments around the world?

    >
    >Skype offer a choice of 17 UK area codes for their Skypein service. That
    >sounds like a UK presence to me. It also sounds to me rather like
    >they're a telephone company, but I must be mistaken.


    But not a physical UK presence, or even a legal one. I believe Skype
    are based in Luxembourg. There might not be much that Oftel can do
    about it if Skype decide to ignore them?

    Chris
    Chris Blunt, Jun 28, 2011
    #4
  5. Andrew Benham

    Graham. Guest

    "Chris Blunt" <> wrote in message news:...
    > On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:46:15 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Benham
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 17:51:14 +0700, Chris Blunt wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:20:07 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Benham
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:23:10 -0500, phonepro wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> What type of company is skype then? Internet messaging?
    >>>>
    >>>>Skype go to great lengths to point out that they are not a telephone
    >>>>company. If they were a telephone company, they would have been hit by
    >>>>fines for refusing to abide by Ofcom rules in the UK, e.g.:
    >>>>
    >>>>http://www.computeractive.co.uk/ca/news/1909035/skype-refuses-

    >>comply-999-
    >>>>ruling
    >>>>
    >>>>and I believe rulings in other countries (e.g. FCC in USA).
    >>>
    >>> I don't blame Skype for refusing to comply. The rule makes sense for UK
    >>> fixed lines and mobiles, but a Skype user could be located anywhere in
    >>> the world. The 999 service is abused enough already. Do Ofcom really
    >>> want any Skype user anywhere in the world who happens to dial 999 from
    >>> his phone to get connected to the UK emergency service?

    >>
    >>That's a possible argument, but every UK telco providing VoIP has to
    >>comply with Ofcom's rule - even if they disagree with it.
    >>I just think the playing field should be level.
    >>After all, IIRC one telco got fined by Ofcom after a customer called an
    >>ambulance with a 999 call over VoIP and hadn't updated his home address
    >>with the telco - an ambulance was sent to the wrong address and the
    >>patient died.
    >>
    >>> Besides, there is also the question of jurisdiction. If Skype doesn't
    >>> have a physical presence in the UK why should they by subject to UK
    >>> rules? How many UK ISP's comply with rules from various other foreign
    >>> governments around the world?

    >>
    >>Skype offer a choice of 17 UK area codes for their Skypein service. That
    >>sounds like a UK presence to me. It also sounds to me rather like
    >>they're a telephone company, but I must be mistaken.

    >
    > But not a physical UK presence, or even a legal one. I believe Skype
    > are based in Luxembourg. There might not be much that Oftel can do
    > about it if Skype decide to ignore them?
    >
    > Chris



    A couple of examples.
    Sipgate.co.uk is a wholly German company, albeit aimed at the UK.
    All their free accounts come with a free CLI, they also offer a free
    optional 999 service.

    Localphone.com is based in Sheffield and have withdrawn the geographic
    numbers they once offered on free accounts calls from these Localphone accounts
    present no number, even to another Telco

    I imply no criticism for the stance of either of these two services which I find
    very useful.

    Incidentally, 0808 170 7788 will read back a CLI even if it is flagged withheld.

    --
    Graham.

    %Profound_observation%
    Graham., Jun 28, 2011
    #5
  6. On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 00:54:41 +0100, "Graham." <> wrote:

    > Incidentally, 0808 170 7788 will read back a CLI even if it is flagged withheld.


    It didn't do that for me. I heard this announcement: "Welcome. Please enter
    the number you would like to call and finish by pressing the hash button."
    Anthony R. Gold, Jun 28, 2011
    #6
  7. On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:57:17 +0100, "Anthony R. Gold"
    <> wrote:

    > On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 00:54:41 +0100, "Graham." <> wrote:
    >
    >> Incidentally, 0808 170 7788 will read back a CLI even if it is flagged withheld.

    >
    > It didn't do that for me. I heard this announcement: "Welcome. Please enter
    > the number you would like to call and finish by pressing the hash button."


    I now see why. This facility will not work when the calling number is
    registered with 18866.
    Anthony R. Gold, Jun 28, 2011
    #7
  8. Andrew Benham

    alexd Guest

    Meanwhile, at the uk.telecom.voip Job Justification Hearings, Graham. chose
    the tried and tested strategy of:

    > Sipgate.co.uk is a wholly German company, albeit aimed at the UK.
    > All their free accounts come with a free CLI, they also offer a free
    > optional 999 service.


    Sipgate aim to be a landline replacement, Skype does not, so I can
    understand why Sipgate offer 999 even when they may not have to.

    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    21:54:05 up 10 days, 4:27, 7 users, load average: 0.10, 0.11, 0.16
    "People believe any quote they read on the internet
    if it fits their preconceived notions." - Martin Luther King
    alexd, Jun 29, 2011
    #8
  9. Andrew Benham

    alexd Guest

    Meanwhile, at the uk.telecom.voip Job Justification Hearings, chose the
    tried and tested strategy of:

    > Skype are base in Luxembourg now are they? Interesting.


    Why is that interesting?

    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    21:59:49 up 10 days, 4:33, 7 users, load average: 0.08, 0.13, 0.16
    "People believe any quote they read on the internet
    if it fits their preconceived notions." - Martin Luther King
    alexd, Jun 29, 2011
    #9
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