Re: UPS goes crazy for a few minutes every night at 11pm

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Richard, May 29, 2009.

  1. Richard

    Richard Guest

    ofn01 wrote:
    > I have two UPS's - both APC and both bought brand new. THe first one, a
    > Smart UPS model I've had for quite a while with no issues.
    >
    > The second, I bought just this week seems to have the wierdest quirk.
    >
    > Every night at 11pm it starts flicking between battery and power for about 5
    > minutes.
    >
    > I have tried it on two different sockets and still get the same issue.
    >
    > Any idea what could cause this?
    >
    > APC have suggested lowering the sensitivity but lowering it from the factory
    > default is not recommended for computer use in the manual?


    Mine will often kick over to battery momenarily when a large load is
    turned on, and when one of them kicks back to mains, that spike will
    flick the other one on to battery sometimes.

    Main thing to cause it is plugging in one of my stepdown transformers -
    those have a massive inrush draw - or the power amp on the stereo on the
    same circuit so is there something large turning on at around that time?
     
    Richard, May 29, 2009
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. As Malcolm Says, its the f**king ripple control.

    My old-school power amplifier makes a horrendous *barrrrrp* noise every
    night at 11pm.

    Lately the dickheads have taken to swithching the ripple control 20
    times in a row.

    I rang them (both Vector and Genesis) and after much faffing about, they
    promised to ring back with an answer - yeah right! that was 2 weeks ago.

    RtB.

    ofn01 wrote:
    > "ofn01" <> wrote in message
    > news:4a205415$...
    >> "Richard" <> wrote in message
    >> news:gvoosu$cs8$...
    >>> ofn01 wrote:
    >>>> I have two UPS's - both APC and both bought brand new. THe first one, a
    >>>> Smart UPS model I've had for quite a while with no issues.
    >>>>
    >>>> The second, I bought just this week seems to have the wierdest quirk.
    >>>>
    >>>> Every night at 11pm it starts flicking between battery and power for
    >>>> about 5 minutes.
    >>>>
    >>>> I have tried it on two different sockets and still get the same issue.
    >>>>
    >>>> Any idea what could cause this?
    >>>>
    >>>> APC have suggested lowering the sensitivity but lowering it from the
    >>>> factory default is not recommended for computer use in the manual?
    >>> Mine will often kick over to battery momenarily when a large load is
    >>> turned on, and when one of them kicks back to mains, that spike will
    >>> flick the other one on to battery sometimes.
    >>>
    >>> Main thing to cause it is plugging in one of my stepdown transformers -
    >>> those have a massive inrush draw - or the power amp on the stereo on the
    >>> same circuit so is there something large turning on at around that time?

    >> Actually it occurs to me that we have a timer which switches a 2400W oil
    >> column heater on at 10pm and off at 11pm every night
    >>
    >> It is plugged into a socket right on the other side of the house though...
    >>
    >> Could this cause it? Doesn't seem to affect the other UPS

    >
    > Sorry bit more info... This timer also switches the heater on in the
    > mornings and when it turns off again it doesn't cause the same problem. So
    > the problem occurs in sync with the evening switchoff but not the morning
    > one...
    >
    >
     
    Richard Savage, May 29, 2009
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Richard

    Enkidu Guest

    A proper line conditioner would fix it. I'd say that the second UPS has
    cheaper circuits than the first.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    Richard Savage wrote:
    > As Malcolm Says, its the f**king ripple control.
    >
    > My old-school power amplifier makes a horrendous *barrrrrp* noise every
    > night at 11pm.
    >
    > Lately the dickheads have taken to swithching the ripple control 20
    > times in a row.
    >
    > I rang them (both Vector and Genesis) and after much faffing about, they
    > promised to ring back with an answer - yeah right! that was 2 weeks ago.
    >
    > RtB.
    >
    > ofn01 wrote:
    >> "ofn01" <> wrote in message
    >> news:4a205415$...
    >>> "Richard" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:gvoosu$cs8$...
    >>>> ofn01 wrote:
    >>>>> I have two UPS's - both APC and both bought brand new. THe first
    >>>>> one, a Smart UPS model I've had for quite a while with no issues.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The second, I bought just this week seems to have the wierdest quirk.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Every night at 11pm it starts flicking between battery and power
    >>>>> for about 5 minutes.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I have tried it on two different sockets and still get the same issue.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Any idea what could cause this?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> APC have suggested lowering the sensitivity but lowering it from
    >>>>> the factory default is not recommended for computer use in the manual?
    >>>> Mine will often kick over to battery momenarily when a large load is
    >>>> turned on, and when one of them kicks back to mains, that spike will
    >>>> flick the other one on to battery sometimes.
    >>>>
    >>>> Main thing to cause it is plugging in one of my stepdown
    >>>> transformers - those have a massive inrush draw - or the power amp
    >>>> on the stereo on the same circuit so is there something large
    >>>> turning on at around that time?
    >>> Actually it occurs to me that we have a timer which switches a 2400W
    >>> oil column heater on at 10pm and off at 11pm every night
    >>>
    >>> It is plugged into a socket right on the other side of the house
    >>> though...
    >>>
    >>> Could this cause it? Doesn't seem to affect the other UPS

    >>
    >> Sorry bit more info... This timer also switches the heater on in the
    >> mornings and when it turns off again it doesn't cause the same
    >> problem. So the problem occurs in sync with the evening switchoff but
    >> not the morning one...

    >



    --

    The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
    the same old personalities show through.
     
    Enkidu, May 29, 2009
    #3
  4. In message <4a2054cb$>, ofn01 wrote:

    > "ofn01" <> wrote in message
    > news:4a205415$...
    >>
    >> Actually it occurs to me that we have a timer which switches a 2400W oil
    >> column heater on at 10pm and off at 11pm every night

    >
    > Sorry bit more info... This timer also switches the heater on in the
    > mornings and when it turns off again it doesn't cause the same problem. So
    > the problem occurs in sync with the evening switchoff but not the morning
    > one...


    It's easy enough to confirm or refute whether this has anything to do with
    the problem, isn't it: just change the night-time off time by a few minutes,
    and see what the effect is. Surely anyone with half a brain could have
    figured that out...
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, May 30, 2009
    #4
  5. Richard

    Richard Guest

    Richard Savage wrote:
    > As Malcolm Says, its the f**king ripple control.
    >
    > My old-school power amplifier makes a horrendous *barrrrrp* noise every
    > night at 11pm.
    >
    > Lately the dickheads have taken to swithching the ripple control 20
    > times in a row.
    >
    > I rang them (both Vector and Genesis) and after much faffing about, they
    > promised to ring back with an answer - yeah right! that was 2 weeks ago.
    >


    Why would they care? The signals are low level and it sounds like your
    amp has a crap power supply in it. Amazingly enough some of the more
    expensive ones have a crap power supply with no filtering - I guess
    thats so that people can justify spending a few grand on overpriced
    power conditioners etc.
     
    Richard, May 30, 2009
    #5
  6. Richard

    victor Guest

    Richard wrote:
    > Richard Savage wrote:
    >> As Malcolm Says, its the f**king ripple control.
    >>
    >> My old-school power amplifier makes a horrendous *barrrrrp* noise
    >> every night at 11pm.
    >>
    >> Lately the dickheads have taken to swithching the ripple control 20
    >> times in a row.
    >>
    >> I rang them (both Vector and Genesis) and after much faffing about,
    >> they promised to ring back with an answer - yeah right! that was 2
    >> weeks ago.
    >>

    >
    > Why would they care? The signals are low level and it sounds like your
    > amp has a crap power supply in it. Amazingly enough some of the more
    > expensive ones have a crap power supply with no filtering - I guess
    > thats so that people can justify spending a few grand on overpriced
    > power conditioners etc.


    How do they get rid of the 100Hz without filtering ?
     
    victor, May 30, 2009
    #6
  7. Richard

    Richard Guest

    victor wrote:
    > Richard wrote:


    >
    > How do they get rid of the 100Hz without filtering ?


    They have a cap for that, but no inductance inline with the incoming
    mains or capacitors across it - you know, the things that even a budget
    computer power supply will have in them.

    Worst offender I have seen was an old non descript NZ made amp - mains
    went straight to the transformer thru a switch, and the output also had
    no conditioning before going to the bridge rectifier.

    That thing made massive noise when anything was turned on or off and
    apparnatly it was not a cheap amp like its design would lead you to believe.
     
    Richard, May 30, 2009
    #7
  8. Richard

    victor Guest

    Richard wrote:
    > victor wrote:
    >> Richard wrote:

    >
    >>
    >> How do they get rid of the 100Hz without filtering ?

    >
    > They have a cap for that, but no inductance inline with the incoming
    > mains or capacitors across it - you know, the things that even a budget
    > computer power supply will have in them.
    >
    > Worst offender I have seen was an old non descript NZ made amp - mains
    > went straight to the transformer thru a switch, and the output also had
    > no conditioning before going to the bridge rectifier.
    >
    > That thing made massive noise when anything was turned on or off and
    > apparnatly it was not a cheap amp like its design would lead you to
    > believe.


    So the caps are filtering the 100Hz ripple from the bridge rectifier,
    but the 3v of ripple control at 500Hz or whatever, that isn't filtered out ?
     
    victor, May 30, 2009
    #8
  9. Richard

    Richard Guest

    victor wrote:

    > So the caps are filtering the 100Hz ripple from the bridge rectifier,
    > but the 3v of ripple control at 500Hz or whatever, that isn't filtered
    > out ?


    Correct, or the transients of turning things off and on, or the HF whine
    of an inverter driven motor on in the same property.
     
    Richard, May 30, 2009
    #9
  10. Richard

    victor Guest

    Richard wrote:
    > victor wrote:
    >
    >> So the caps are filtering the 100Hz ripple from the bridge rectifier,
    >> but the 3v of ripple control at 500Hz or whatever, that isn't filtered
    >> out ?

    >
    > Correct, or the transients of turning things off and on, or the HF whine
    > of an inverter driven motor on in the same property.


    But those are a lot smaller than the 100v ripple from the bridge rectifier.
     
    victor, May 30, 2009
    #10
  11. In message <gvr814$n8$>, Richard wrote:

    > Worst offender I have seen was an old non descript NZ made amp - mains
    > went straight to the transformer thru a switch, and the output also had
    > no conditioning before going to the bridge rectifier.
    >
    > That thing made massive noise when anything was turned on or off and
    > apparnatly it was not a cheap amp like its design would lead you to
    > believe.


    Ah, but you see all those nasty capacitors and coils affect the “purity†of
    the sound.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, May 31, 2009
    #11
  12. Richard

    Richard Guest

    victor wrote:
    > Richard wrote:
    >> victor wrote:
    >>
    >>> So the caps are filtering the 100Hz ripple from the bridge rectifier,
    >>> but the 3v of ripple control at 500Hz or whatever, that isn't
    >>> filtered out ?

    >>
    >> Correct, or the transients of turning things off and on, or the HF
    >> whine of an inverter driven motor on in the same property.

    >
    > But those are a lot smaller than the 100v ripple from the bridge rectifier.


    Yeah, go figure - but there was no mains hum on the amp at all, and
    there was a very audible beeping at the time the ripple control was
    active - same as you hear out of a cieling fan or other cheap shaded
    pole motor when they trigger the ripple control.

    And the woofers would move when a load was turned on and off in the same
    property, and move a lot if you turned off something inductive - all
    that without even a source connected so it wasnt a groundloop or
    anything - just a shit amp.
     
    Richard, May 31, 2009
    #12
  13. In message <4a209758$>, ofn01 wrote:

    > "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    > news:gvq29i$sos$...
    >
    >> In message <4a2054cb$>, ofn01 wrote:
    >>
    >>> "ofn01" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:4a205415$...
    >>>>
    >>>> Actually it occurs to me that we have a timer which switches a 2400W
    >>>> oil column heater on at 10pm and off at 11pm every night
    >>>
    >>> Sorry bit more info... This timer also switches the heater on in the
    >>> mornings and when it turns off again it doesn't cause the same problem.
    >>> So the problem occurs in sync with the evening switchoff but not the
    >>> morning one...

    >>
    >> It's easy enough to confirm or refute whether this has anything to do
    >> with the problem, isn't it: just change the night-time off time by a few
    >> minutes, and see what the effect is. Surely anyone with half a brain
    >> could have figured that out...

    >
    > I only considered the timer playing a part this morning. 11pm was last
    > night. In the meantime I thought I would still get some opinions. Surely
    > anyone with half a brain could have figured that out...


    So, have you made fruitful use of the last night or two to collect data as
    per the above suggestion, or are you still waiting for someone to help you
    achieve half-brain status?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, May 31, 2009
    #13
  14. Richard

    greg Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >
    > So, have you made fruitful use of the last night or two to collect data as
    > per the above suggestion, or are you still waiting for someone to help you
    > achieve half-brain status?
    >


    that would still be half a brain more than you!!!
     
    greg, May 31, 2009
    #14
  15. Richard wrote:

    A load of shite

    I already said that the amp was old-school. I know that a modern power
    amp with a switch mode power supply won't be affected by the ripple
    control. BUT I've only got an old amp. What a wanker.


    > victor wrote:
    >> Richard wrote:
    >>> victor wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> So the caps are filtering the 100Hz ripple from the bridge
    >>>> rectifier, but the 3v of ripple control at 500Hz or whatever, that
    >>>> isn't filtered out ?
    >>>
    >>> Correct, or the transients of turning things off and on, or the HF
    >>> whine of an inverter driven motor on in the same property.

    >>
    >> But those are a lot smaller than the 100v ripple from the bridge
    >> rectifier.

    >
    > Yeah, go figure - but there was no mains hum on the amp at all, and
    > there was a very audible beeping at the time the ripple control was
    > active - same as you hear out of a cieling fan or other cheap shaded
    > pole motor when they trigger the ripple control.
    >
    > And the woofers would move when a load was turned on and off in the same
    > property, and move a lot if you turned off something inductive - all
    > that without even a source connected so it wasnt a groundloop or
    > anything - just a shit amp.
     
    Richard Savage, Jun 1, 2009
    #15
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Replies:
    0
    Views:
    977
  2. Omar
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    1,080
  3. markm75
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    421
    Jack \(MVP-Networking\).
    Oct 31, 2007
  4. Enkidu
    Replies:
    6
    Views:
    617
    Enkidu
    May 31, 2009
  5. steve
    Replies:
    19
    Views:
    534
Loading...

Share This Page