Re: UK - running a braodband extension CAT5,5e,6

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Whiskers, Nov 8, 2010.

  1. Whiskers

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2010-11-07, Information <> wrote:
    > Ok , in the dining room is BT broadband router
    >
    > Id like to have a "faceplate" in same room , and use a
    > patch network cable that leads from back of router to faceplate
    >
    > The faceplate has network cable that goes to loft
    >
    > In loft the cable goes to junction box , the junction box
    >
    > splits to send cable to
    > livingroon
    > two bedrooms
    > garage
    >
    > and essentially a faceplate is there ready for cables
    > to computers etc


    That will not work. Each 'faceplate' must be wired directly to the router
    - no 'junction boxes', no splits. You need a socket on the router for
    each 'faceplate'. Most home-user routers can handle 4 wired ethernet
    connections, but models are available with more sockets than that.

    It may be more convenient to use a wireless router or 'access point' for
    some or all of the computers. There are also gadgets for 'data over the
    mains' that might be worth considering.

    > what i dont understand i the differences in cable and which is
    > is compatible with broadband etc
    >
    > and why is some talkingablut twisted pairs etc ... im lost
    >
    > please explain for me !


    "Cat5" is probably OK, and is generally cheaper than "cat5e", but if
    'speed' is important to you then pay for the 'better' cable. You don't
    need to know about twisted-pair cables.

    I suggest you pay a visit to one or two independent computer shops, and
    chains such as Maplin and PC World, to get advice and see what's
    available.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, Nov 8, 2010
    #1
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  2. Whiskers

    PeeCee Guest

    "Information" wrote in message
    news:...

    ""That will not work. Each 'faceplate' must be wired directly to the router
    - no 'junction boxes', no splits. You need a socket on the router for
    each 'faceplate'. Most home-user routers can handle 4 wired ethernet
    connections, but models are available with more sockets than that.""

    THIS IS CONCERNING !

    and involves a huge amount of extra work and cabling

    any ideas to get it to work the way i expected





    If you open this link http://www.gliffy.com/publish/2318437/
    You will find a diagram I've created for your specific situation.

    Points to note:

    1. Each PC must have it's own Cat5 cable, you can not 'share' a cable by
    joining the wires to the one coming from the dining room.
    The only way to 'share' the cable coming from the dining room is to plug it
    into one of the sockets of a 'Switch' (link given in other post)
    The other PC's can then be plugged into any of the other sockets on the
    switch and the switch will automatically switch the data coming up the
    dining room cable to the PC that needs it.
    (and vice versa for outwards data)

    2. As I mention on the diagram while a proper drop cable, wall plate, cable
    run, wall plate, drop cable construction is 'professional' and the the
    preferred way to build it for robustness, running a long drop cable direct
    is perfectly acceptable where it is installed and infrequently disturbed.
    Building the cabling with wall plates etc is also the most expensive way to
    go, each wall plate and its 8P8C socket on its own are probably going to
    cost as much a a the drop cable to do the whole run.

    3. If your BT Broadband Router has four LAN sockets on the back, it will be
    cheaper to run 'one' of these to a switch in the Loft as I have drawn in my
    diagram rather than running 4 leads up into the loft and down to each room.

    Best
    Paul.
     
    PeeCee, Nov 9, 2010
    #2
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  3. Whiskers

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2010-11-09, Information <> wrote:
    > ""That will not work. Each 'faceplate' must be wired directly to the router
    > - no 'junction boxes', no splits. You need a socket on the router for
    > each 'faceplate'. Most home-user routers can handle 4 wired ethernet
    > connections, but models are available with more sockets than that.""
    >
    > THIS IS CONCERNING !
    >
    > and involves a huge amount of extra work and cabling
    >
    > any ideas to get it to work the way i expected


    As I already suggested, either WiFi or data-over-powerline. WiFi is
    usually the easiest and cheapest and most flexible. Most home-user
    wireless routers or access points can handle 'several' computers
    connecting wirelessly at the same time. In most houses, a single WiFi
    router or access point can cover all the rooms and a little beyond, if it
    is placed carefully so as not to be blocked by kitchen equipment or
    mirrors or cupboards full of 'stuff'. I can sometimes use mine (located in
    a back room in a flat one floor up in a concrete building) from inside my
    car parked in the street in front and about 20 yards away.

    Do you need to have access to your network from all four rooms at the same
    time, or do you want to be able to move one computer from room to room and
    still have internet access? Are you trying to create a 'home
    entertainment system'? Is there a particular reason you want to use a
    wired system?

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, Nov 9, 2010
    #3
  4. Whiskers

    Jordon Guest

    Whiskers wrote:
    > On 2010-11-07, Information<> wrote:
    >> Ok , in the dining room is BT broadband router
    >>
    >> Id like to have a "faceplate" in same room , and use a
    >> patch network cable that leads from back of router to faceplate
    >>
    >> The faceplate has network cable that goes to loft
    >>
    >> In loft the cable goes to junction box , the junction box
    >>
    >> splits to send cable to
    >> livingroon
    >> two bedrooms
    >> garage
    >>
    >> and essentially a faceplate is there ready for cables
    >> to computers etc

    >
    > That will not work. Each 'faceplate' must be wired directly to the router
    > - no 'junction boxes', no splits.


    What's wrong with putting a 4 port switch at one end of one
    of the cables (in the loft)?
     
    Jordon, Nov 9, 2010
    #4
  5. Whiskers

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2010-11-09, Jordon <jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote:
    > Whiskers wrote:
    >> On 2010-11-07, Information<> wrote:
    >>> Ok , in the dining room is BT broadband router
    >>>
    >>> Id like to have a "faceplate" in same room , and use a
    >>> patch network cable that leads from back of router to faceplate
    >>>
    >>> The faceplate has network cable that goes to loft
    >>>
    >>> In loft the cable goes to junction box , the junction box
    >>>
    >>> splits to send cable to
    >>> livingroon
    >>> two bedrooms
    >>> garage
    >>>
    >>> and essentially a faceplate is there ready for cables
    >>> to computers etc

    >>
    >> That will not work. Each 'faceplate' must be wired directly to the router
    >> - no 'junction boxes', no splits.

    >
    > What's wrong with putting a 4 port switch at one end of one
    > of the cables (in the loft)?


    You mean leave the router (which the OP already has, apparantly, and which
    probably has 4 ethernet ports available) in the Dining-room, run one
    ethernet cable from it to a 'switch' (which the OP almost certainly hasn't
    got yet) and then run 4 cables down from the loft into each of the other
    three rooms? That probably would work, but I suspect the 'switch' would
    cost more than the length of cable 'saved' (unless the loft is a long way
    from the Dining-room).

    But we haven't heard yet why the OP wants to have anything in the loft at
    all, or how accessible the loft is, or if it's suitable for delicate
    electronic equipment to operate in, or even has mains power available.

    A good rule of thumb for any LAN cable run, is 'the shorter the better'.
    Without seeing a plan of the OP's house, we can't suggest what the most
    efficient wiring routes might be. Assuming that ethernet cabling is the
    most appropriate arrangement at all.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, Nov 9, 2010
    #5
  6. Whiskers

    Jordon Guest

    Whiskers wrote:
    > On 2010-11-09, Jordon<jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote:
    >> Whiskers wrote:
    >>> On 2010-11-07, Information<> wrote:
    >>>> Ok , in the dining room is BT broadband router
    >>>>
    >>>> Id like to have a "faceplate" in same room , and use a
    >>>> patch network cable that leads from back of router to faceplate
    >>>>
    >>>> The faceplate has network cable that goes to loft
    >>>>
    >>>> In loft the cable goes to junction box , the junction box
    >>>>
    >>>> splits to send cable to
    >>>> livingroon
    >>>> two bedrooms
    >>>> garage
    >>>>
    >>>> and essentially a faceplate is there ready for cables
    >>>> to computers etc
    >>>
    >>> That will not work. Each 'faceplate' must be wired directly to the router
    >>> - no 'junction boxes', no splits.

    >>
    >> What's wrong with putting a 4 port switch at one end of one
    >> of the cables (in the loft)?

    >
    > You mean leave the router (which the OP already has, apparantly, and which
    > probably has 4 ethernet ports available) in the Dining-room, run one
    > ethernet cable from it to a 'switch' (which the OP almost certainly hasn't
    > got yet) and then run 4 cables down from the loft into each of the other
    > three rooms? That probably would work, but I suspect the 'switch' would
    > cost more than the length of cable 'saved' (unless the loft is a long way
    > from the Dining-room).
    >
    > But we haven't heard yet why the OP wants to have anything in the loft at
    > all, or how accessible the loft is, or if it's suitable for delicate
    > electronic equipment to operate in, or even has mains power available.


    Probably because going down vertically through the inside of a wall
    is a lot easier than going horizontally through the wall. I've installed
    a few LAN's and it's pretty easy to drill a hole through
    the header of the wall (from above) and drop the cable down to where
    you want the faceplate, cut the hole and fish it out. Then put a
    switch in the attic (or loft) and drop the other cables in the same
    way.

    > A good rule of thumb for any LAN cable run, is 'the shorter the better'.


    With a powered switch in the middle of two long lengths of cable you
    shouldn't have any problems. Where I'm at I have our main file server
    about 120 feet from two 16 port switches, then about 20 cables to two
    different buildings. Works quite well.
     
    Jordon, Nov 9, 2010
    #6
  7. Whiskers

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2010-11-09, Jordon <jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote:
    > Whiskers wrote:
    >> On 2010-11-09, Jordon<jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote:
    >>> Whiskers wrote:
    >>>> On 2010-11-07, Information<> wrote:


    [...]

    >> But we haven't heard yet why the OP wants to have anything in the loft at
    >> all, or how accessible the loft is, or if it's suitable for delicate
    >> electronic equipment to operate in, or even has mains power available.

    >
    > Probably because going down vertically through the inside of a wall
    > is a lot easier than going horizontally through the wall. I've installed
    > a few LAN's and it's pretty easy to drill a hole through
    > the header of the wall (from above) and drop the cable down to where
    > you want the faceplate, cut the hole and fish it out. Then put a
    > switch in the attic (or loft) and drop the other cables in the same
    > way.


    That supposes hollow walls with easy access to the cavity at the top, and
    no blockages by inconvenient things such as (for example) floors. I've
    never lived in a house that didn't have solid masonry walls (apart from an
    occasional partition, usually sub-dividing a large room). Where I live
    now the floors are all solid concrete too. Post-construction cable runs
    have to go through doorways or windows, unless some heavy drilling can be
    done (and any such holes are meant to be made fire-proof afterwards).

    A continuous vertical cavity from ground to roof-space sounds to me like a
    fire-hazard; I don't think such a construction would be permitted here.

    >> A good rule of thumb for any LAN cable run, is 'the shorter the better'.

    >
    > With a powered switch in the middle of two long lengths of cable you
    > shouldn't have any problems. Where I'm at I have our main file server
    > about 120 feet from two 16 port switches, then about 20 cables to two
    > different buildings. Works quite well.


    And is very different from a small house!

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, Nov 10, 2010
    #7
  8. Whiskers

    Jordon Guest

    Whiskers wrote:
    > On 2010-11-09, Jordon<jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote:
    >> Whiskers wrote:
    >>> On 2010-11-09, Jordon<jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote:
    >>>> Whiskers wrote:
    >>>>> On 2010-11-07, Information<> wrote:

    >
    > [...]
    >
    >>> But we haven't heard yet why the OP wants to have anything in the loft at
    >>> all, or how accessible the loft is, or if it's suitable for delicate
    >>> electronic equipment to operate in, or even has mains power available.

    >>
    >> Probably because going down vertically through the inside of a wall
    >> is a lot easier than going horizontally through the wall. I've installed
    >> a few LAN's and it's pretty easy to drill a hole through
    >> the header of the wall (from above) and drop the cable down to where
    >> you want the faceplate, cut the hole and fish it out. Then put a
    >> switch in the attic (or loft) and drop the other cables in the same
    >> way.

    >
    > That supposes hollow walls with easy access to the cavity at the top, and
    > no blockages by inconvenient things such as (for example) floors. I've
    > never lived in a house that didn't have solid masonry walls


    I could be wrong but I don't think the OP has masonry walls. Adding
    a "face plate" would be sort of difficult without major work. Maybe
    plasterboard?

    > (apart from an
    > occasional partition, usually sub-dividing a large room). Where I live
    > now the floors are all solid concrete too. Post-construction cable runs
    > have to go through doorways or windows, unless some heavy drilling can be
    > done (and any such holes are meant to be made fire-proof afterwards).
    >
    > A continuous vertical cavity from ground to roof-space sounds to me like a
    > fire-hazard; I don't think such a construction would be permitted here.


    Where's here?

    Ground to roof? I'm just talking from one floor to the loft or attic
    above it. In an attic it's easy to find the walls below and in millions
    of residences in the states there are no horizontal studs to deal with,
    just insulation. But if you come across them, find it on the exterior
    of the wall, use a large bit and drill a hole at a steep enough angle
    above the stud to go through the wallboard and the stud and come out
    the other side of the stud on the inside of the wall. Fish the cable
    through the hole in the stud and patch the wall. Anyone that's worked
    with wallboard would find it easy. It's how many professional cabling
    companies wire existing buildings. I've done it several times.

    >>> A good rule of thumb for any LAN cable run, is 'the shorter the better'.

    >>
    >> With a powered switch in the middle of two long lengths of cable you
    >> shouldn't have any problems. Where I'm at I have our main file server
    >> about 120 feet from two 16 port switches, then about 20 cables to two
    >> different buildings. Works quite well.

    >
    > And is very different from a small house!


    How so? A $20 four port switch in the loft accomplishes the same thing.
    You mentioned keeping cable runs short. You don't have to. Using cat 6
    the maximum single cable length is longer than a football field, that
    is, if we're talking American football.

    I do agree with you though, going wireless is much easier but for
    whatever reason, the OP doesn't (or hasn't or is reluctant to) consider
    it.
     
    Jordon, Nov 10, 2010
    #8
  9. Whiskers

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2010-11-10, Jordon <jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote:
    > Whiskers wrote:
    >> On 2010-11-09, Jordon<jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote:
    >>> Whiskers wrote:
    >>>> On 2010-11-09, Jordon<jordon@REMOVE~THISmyrealbox.com> wrote:
    >>>>> Whiskers wrote:
    >>>>>> On 2010-11-07, Information<> wrote:

    >>
    >> [...]
    >>
    >>>> But we haven't heard yet why the OP wants to have anything in the loft at
    >>>> all, or how accessible the loft is, or if it's suitable for delicate
    >>>> electronic equipment to operate in, or even has mains power available.
    >>>
    >>> Probably because going down vertically through the inside of a wall
    >>> is a lot easier than going horizontally through the wall. I've installed
    >>> a few LAN's and it's pretty easy to drill a hole through
    >>> the header of the wall (from above) and drop the cable down to where
    >>> you want the faceplate, cut the hole and fish it out. Then put a
    >>> switch in the attic (or loft) and drop the other cables in the same
    >>> way.

    >>
    >> That supposes hollow walls with easy access to the cavity at the top, and
    >> no blockages by inconvenient things such as (for example) floors. I've
    >> never lived in a house that didn't have solid masonry walls

    >
    > I could be wrong but I don't think the OP has masonry walls. Adding
    > a "face plate" would be sort of difficult without major work. Maybe
    > plasterboard?


    The surface mounting box was invented for this.

    A modern building here, or one that has been extensively re-furbished,
    might have plasterboard fixed to the masonry walls (either by dabs of
    plaster or by nailing to bits of wood fixed to the wall) which does leave
    a narrow cavity between the plasterboard and the masonry - but the cavity
    doesn't extend beyond that room. Plaster applied directly to the masonry
    is more 'traditional' though. If new cable or pipe runs are to be
    concealed, the walls have to be 'chased out' to carve a groove into which
    the cable or pipe is fitted and then plastered over. In such a case,
    chasing out space for a wall-box for fitting a 'flush' faceplate is a
    minor consideration.

    >> (apart from an
    >> occasional partition, usually sub-dividing a large room). Where I live
    >> now the floors are all solid concrete too. Post-construction cable runs
    >> have to go through doorways or windows, unless some heavy drilling can be
    >> done (and any such holes are meant to be made fire-proof afterwards).
    >>
    >> A continuous vertical cavity from ground to roof-space sounds to me like a
    >> fire-hazard; I don't think such a construction would be permitted here.

    >
    > Where's here?


    Like the OP's indication in the Subject - UK.

    > Ground to roof? I'm just talking from one floor to the loft or attic
    > above it.


    The OP hasn't suggested that his house is a bungalow.

    > In an attic it's easy to find the walls below and in millions
    > of residences in the states there are no horizontal studs to deal with,
    > just insulation.


    No wonder so many US buildings blow away in hurricanes, collapse in
    floods, or go up like torches if there's a fire.

    > But if you come across them, find it on the exterior
    > of the wall, use a large bit and drill a hole at a steep enough angle
    > above the stud to go through the wallboard and the stud and come out
    > the other side of the stud on the inside of the wall. Fish the cable
    > through the hole in the stud and patch the wall. Anyone that's worked
    > with wallboard would find it easy. It's how many professional cabling
    > companies wire existing buildings. I've done it several times.


    Electricians and plumbers over here usually come equipped with masonry
    drills. Buildings that have to be 'retro-fitted' with lots of cables for
    using as offices often end up with 'false floors' and suspended ceilings
    to create space for them.

    >>>> A good rule of thumb for any LAN cable run, is 'the shorter the better'.
    >>>
    >>> With a powered switch in the middle of two long lengths of cable you
    >>> shouldn't have any problems. Where I'm at I have our main file server
    >>> about 120 feet from two 16 port switches, then about 20 cables to two
    >>> different buildings. Works quite well.

    >>
    >> And is very different from a small house!

    >
    > How so? A $20 four port switch in the loft accomplishes the same thing.
    > You mentioned keeping cable runs short. You don't have to. Using cat 6
    > the maximum single cable length is longer than a football field, that
    > is, if we're talking American football.


    You might get it to work, but if you're trying to connect adjoining rooms
    it wouldn't work as well as a 6' cable going straight through the wall.

    > I do agree with you though, going wireless is much easier but for
    > whatever reason, the OP doesn't (or hasn't or is reluctant to) consider
    > it.


    What happened to the OP?

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, Nov 11, 2010
    #9
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