Re: Truth about hi-capacity replacement batteries?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Ron, Nov 21, 2010.

  1. Ron

    Ron Guest

    "Alfred Molon" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > My experience with cheap Chinese batteries has not been good. Capacity
    > was half of the capacity of the original battery and the batteries
    > developed issues during charging over time.
    > --
    >

    I have had a similar experience with the cheapest Canon BP-511 battery look
    a likes. I bought a couple of $6 replacement batteries and they only lasted
    a few recharges before refusing to accept a charge. However, I have bought
    a number of replacements for $12-$13 that lasted two to three years and many
    many recharges. They are a much better value than a genuine Canon battery
    at $60 or so.

    Ron
    Ron, Nov 21, 2010
    #1
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  2. Ron

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 08:42:10 -0600, "Ron" <> wrote:
    :
    : "Alfred Molon" <> wrote in message
    : news:...
    : > My experience with cheap Chinese batteries has not been good. Capacity
    : > was half of the capacity of the original battery and the batteries
    : > developed issues during charging over time.
    : > --
    : >
    : I have had a similar experience with the cheapest Canon BP-511 battery look
    : a likes. I bought a couple of $6 replacement batteries and they only lasted
    : a few recharges before refusing to accept a charge. However, I have bought
    : a number of replacements for $12-$13 that lasted two to three years and many
    : many recharges. They are a much better value than a genuine Canon battery
    : at $60 or so.

    That reasoning is perfectly valid if your work is exclusively in landscapes,
    architecture, etc. But an event photographer or photojournalist can't afford
    the risk that a battery he thinks is fully charged will suddenly crap out. I
    used to buy knockoff batteries, but eventually concluded that it wasn't worth
    the risk.

    Canon batteries are indeed expensive. But in the overall context of what I've
    spent on photographic equipment, the marginal cost of the three extra Canon
    batteries I bought for my two principal cameras is at the level of roundoff
    error.

    Bob
    Robert Coe, Dec 25, 2012
    #2
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  3. Ron

    NotMe Guest

    "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 08:42:10 -0600, "Ron" <> wrote:
    > :
    > : "Alfred Molon" <> wrote in message
    > : news:...
    > : > My experience with cheap Chinese batteries has not been good. Capacity
    > : > was half of the capacity of the original battery and the batteries
    > : > developed issues during charging over time.
    > : > --
    > : >
    > : I have had a similar experience with the cheapest Canon BP-511 battery
    > look
    > : a likes. I bought a couple of $6 replacement batteries and they only
    > lasted
    > : a few recharges before refusing to accept a charge. However, I have
    > bought
    > : a number of replacements for $12-$13 that lasted two to three years and
    > many
    > : many recharges. They are a much better value than a genuine Canon
    > battery
    > : at $60 or so.
    >
    > That reasoning is perfectly valid if your work is exclusively in
    > landscapes,
    > architecture, etc. But an event photographer or photojournalist can't
    > afford
    > the risk that a battery he thinks is fully charged will suddenly crap out.
    > I
    > used to buy knockoff batteries, but eventually concluded that it wasn't
    > worth
    > the risk.
    >
    > Canon batteries are indeed expensive. But in the overall context of what
    > I've
    > spent on photographic equipment, the marginal cost of the three extra
    > Canon
    > batteries I bought for my two principal cameras is at the level of
    > roundoff
    > error.


    The reality is there are only a few (5 +/-) providers of batteries. ( I was
    lead consulting engineer for a major manufacture of consumer electronics
    before I retired). Everyone down stream either licensed the process or buys
    sub assemblies from one of the big 5.

    Most of my clients received batteries in lots and paid for them by the pound
    with no one vendor as the only source. Even those that owned battery
    manufacturing facilities purchased on the open market.

    If you have a mission critical need it is wise to properly test your
    batteries on a regular basis regardless of who manufactured them.
    NotMe, Dec 27, 2012
    #3
  4. Ron

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:33:46 -0600, "NotMe" <> wrote:
    :
    : "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    : news:...
    : > On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 08:42:10 -0600, "Ron" <> wrote:
    : > :
    : > : "Alfred Molon" <> wrote in message
    : > : news:...
    : > : > My experience with cheap Chinese batteries has not been good. Capacity
    : > : > was half of the capacity of the original battery and the batteries
    : > : > developed issues during charging over time.
    : > : > --
    : > : >
    : > : I have had a similar experience with the cheapest Canon BP-511 battery
    : > look
    : > : a likes. I bought a couple of $6 replacement batteries and they only
    : > lasted
    : > : a few recharges before refusing to accept a charge. However, I have
    : > bought
    : > : a number of replacements for $12-$13 that lasted two to three years and
    : > many
    : > : many recharges. They are a much better value than a genuine Canon
    : > battery
    : > : at $60 or so.
    : >
    : > That reasoning is perfectly valid if your work is exclusively in
    : > landscapes, architecture, etc. But an event photographer or
    : > photojournalist can't afford the risk that a battery he thinks is
    : > fully charged will suddenly crap out. I used to buy knockoff batteries,
    : > but eventually concluded that it wasn't worth the risk.
    : >
    : > Canon batteries are indeed expensive. But in the overall context of what
    : > I've spent on photographic equipment, the marginal cost of the three
    : > extra Canon batteries I bought for my two principal cameras is at the
    : > level of roundoff error.
    :
    : The reality is there are only a few (5 +/-) providers of batteries. ( I was
    : lead consulting engineer for a major manufacture of consumer electronics
    : before I retired). Everyone down stream either licensed the process or buys
    : sub assemblies from one of the big 5.
    :
    : Most of my clients received batteries in lots and paid for them by the pound
    : with no one vendor as the only source. Even those that owned battery
    : manufacturing facilities purchased on the open market.

    I have no reason to question your assertions, but I do wonder what difference
    they make. Whether the camera manufacturer made the batteries or not, he has
    to stand behind their quality and reliability. If a battery vendor fails to
    meet those standards, he risks losing his contract. Even when buying on the
    open market, the camera manufacturers knows which battery models from any
    given vendor are designed and manufattured to meet their standards.

    : If you have a mission critical need it is wise to properly test your
    : batteries on a regular basis regardless of who manufactured them.

    You charge the batteries up, and your meter says they're OK. (Or the charger
    does, since it's a rare meter that would match the pin-outs of a given modern
    camera battery.) Then you use them and hope they don't fail. What other
    testing methods are available?

    Bob
    Robert Coe, Dec 28, 2012
    #4
  5. Ron

    NotMe Guest

    "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:33:46 -0600, "NotMe" <> wrote:
    > :
    > : "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    > : news:...
    > : > On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 08:42:10 -0600, "Ron" <> wrote:
    > : > :
    > : > : "Alfred Molon" <> wrote in message
    > : > : news:...
    > : > : > My experience with cheap Chinese batteries has not been good.
    > Capacity
    > : > : > was half of the capacity of the original battery and the batteries
    > : > : > developed issues during charging over time.
    > : > : > --
    > : > : >
    > : > : I have had a similar experience with the cheapest Canon BP-511
    > battery
    > : > look
    > : > : a likes. I bought a couple of $6 replacement batteries and they
    > only
    > : > lasted
    > : > : a few recharges before refusing to accept a charge. However, I have
    > : > bought
    > : > : a number of replacements for $12-$13 that lasted two to three years
    > and
    > : > many
    > : > : many recharges. They are a much better value than a genuine Canon
    > : > battery
    > : > : at $60 or so.
    > : >
    > : > That reasoning is perfectly valid if your work is exclusively in
    > : > landscapes, architecture, etc. But an event photographer or
    > : > photojournalist can't afford the risk that a battery he thinks is
    > : > fully charged will suddenly crap out. I used to buy knockoff
    > batteries,
    > : > but eventually concluded that it wasn't worth the risk.
    > : >
    > : > Canon batteries are indeed expensive. But in the overall context of
    > what
    > : > I've spent on photographic equipment, the marginal cost of the three
    > : > extra Canon batteries I bought for my two principal cameras is at the
    > : > level of roundoff error.
    > :
    > : The reality is there are only a few (5 +/-) providers of batteries. ( I
    > was
    > : lead consulting engineer for a major manufacture of consumer electronics
    > : before I retired). Everyone down stream either licensed the process or
    > buys
    > : sub assemblies from one of the big 5.
    > :
    > : Most of my clients received batteries in lots and paid for them by the
    > pound
    > : with no one vendor as the only source. Even those that owned battery
    > : manufacturing facilities purchased on the open market.
    >
    > I have no reason to question your assertions, but I do wonder what
    > difference
    > they make. Whether the camera manufacturer made the batteries or not, he
    > has
    > to stand behind their quality and reliability. If a battery vendor fails
    > to
    > meet those standards, he risks losing his contract. Even when buying on
    > the
    > open market, the camera manufacturers knows which battery models from any
    > given vendor are designed and manufattured to meet their standards.
    >
    > : If you have a mission critical need it is wise to properly test your
    > : batteries on a regular basis regardless of who manufactured them.
    >
    > You charge the batteries up, and your meter says they're OK. (Or the
    > charger
    > does, since it's a rare meter that would match the pin-outs of a given
    > modern
    > camera battery.) Then you use them and hope they don't fail. What other
    > testing methods are available?


    Some are more complicated than others. Most common is a discharge at a
    stated rate (typically C/20 which is rated capacity {C} over 20 hours or
    some set time limit) to a set point where the battery is considered
    discharged. The discharge voltage point varies with each type of battery but
    most are 1 v per cell on average.

    One that I like especially is to track the internal resistance at a set
    discharge rate. In a sense a slightly different and quicker test than the
    C/20 as it gives you a battery voltage with a load.

    The way I've done it is to find a defective camera on line and disassemble
    it to the point where I can solder a resistance load to the internal
    contacts.

    Most battery manufactures can provide that info. If not you can usually
    get the info from generic batteries of similar ratings.

    If you post the make, model and type of battery you have I can give you a
    good guess.
    NotMe, Dec 28, 2012
    #5
  6. NotMe <> wrote:

    > The reality is there are only a few (5 +/-) providers of batteries. ( I was
    > lead consulting engineer for a major manufacture of consumer electronics
    > before I retired). Everyone down stream either licensed the process or buys
    > sub assemblies from one of the big 5.


    If they license the process, they probably *are* a battery
    provider (unless they pass the license on somehow or forget it
    in a drawer). Maybe they don't do the development themselves,
    but they are manufacturers --- and can be diligent or shoddy,
    buy quality or junk material, keep their manufacturing machines
    in order or not, have close or loose tolerances, ...


    > Most of my clients received batteries in lots and paid for them by the pound
    > with no one vendor as the only source. Even those that owned battery
    > manufacturing facilities purchased on the open market.


    Manufacturing facilities can provide you with a steady stream
    of a very few types and sizes. If you need something else,
    it's not exactly a good idea to retool the whole process,
    unless you need a steady stream of them *and* the retooling and
    the not producing of what you formerly produced on the line(s)
    is financially solid. (Building a new line needs even more
    financial layout.) And that's assuming you have the necessary
    licenses and patents you need to produce what you need.


    > If you have a mission critical need it is wise to properly test your
    > batteries on a regular basis regardless of who manufactured them.


    Well, THAT might be a bit hard if your batteries are beyond LEO.
    Monitoring, yes, but testing?


    -Wolfgang
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jan 10, 2013
    #6
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