Re: That slapping mirror

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Don Stauffer in Minnesota, Jul 7, 2008.

  1. On Jul 6, 3:16 pm, Alfred Molon <> wrote:
    > Took the plunge and just bought my first DLSR. Could so far afford the
    > luxury of using cameras without slapping mirrors (my last camera was a
    > Sony R1).
    >
    > Well, this slapping mirror is really an earthquake. When you press the
    > shutter, it makes the entire camera vibrate.
    > I'm still awaiting delivery of a 70-300mm lens, but I'm wondering if
    > this slapping mirror will compromise sharpness at long focal lengths.
    > What is the solution here? Using MLU for every shot can't be an option.
    > --
    >
    > Alfred Molon
    > ------------------------------
    > Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum athttp://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/http://myolympus.org/photo sharing site


    At long focal lengths you should be using a tripod anyway, even with a
    rangefinder. Any decent tripod will elimiinate the motion due to
    mirror bounce. Some mfgs do a better job of cushioning the shock than
    others, but it is not a real performance concern. What is more of a
    problem is when you are trying to be discrete- say in a wedding- and
    everyone can hear every shot :-(
    Don Stauffer in Minnesota, Jul 7, 2008
    #1
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  2. Don Stauffer in Minnesota

    Hans Kruse Guest

    Don Stauffer in Minnesota wrote:
    >
    > At long focal lengths you should be using a tripod anyway, even with a
    > rangefinder. Any decent tripod will elimiinate the motion due to
    > mirror bounce. Some mfgs do a better job of cushioning the shock than
    > others, but it is not a real performance concern.


    Not true. This review
    http://diglloyd.com/diglloyd/infos/TheSharpestImage/TheSharpestImage-info.html
    shows very clearly that even the most sturdy tripod will not dampen the
    vibrations from the shutter, if you demand critically sharp pictures.
    I have found the same on my Canon 1Ds mk3. With lower resolution and APS-C
    with smaller mirrors the problem is slightly less but still there.

    --
    Med venlig hilsen/Kind regards,
    Hans Kruse www.hanskruse.com, http://hans-kruse.blogspot.com/
    Hans Kruse, Jul 8, 2008
    #2
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  3. Don Stauffer in Minnesota

    Steve Guest

    On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:37:28 +0200, "Hans Kruse"
    <> wrote:

    >Don Stauffer in Minnesota wrote:
    >>
    >> At long focal lengths you should be using a tripod anyway, even with a
    >> rangefinder. Any decent tripod will elimiinate the motion due to
    >> mirror bounce. Some mfgs do a better job of cushioning the shock than
    >> others, but it is not a real performance concern.

    >
    >Not true. This review
    >http://diglloyd.com/diglloyd/infos/TheSharpestImage/TheSharpestImage-info.html
    >shows very clearly that even the most sturdy tripod will not dampen the
    >vibrations from the shutter, if you demand critically sharp pictures.
    >I have found the same on my Canon 1Ds mk3. With lower resolution and APS-C
    >with smaller mirrors the problem is slightly less but still there.


    Vibrations from the shutter or mirror? I'm not sure there's much you
    can do about the shutter.

    Steve
    Steve, Jul 8, 2008
    #3
  4. Don Stauffer in Minnesota

    Hans Kruse Guest

    Steve wrote:
    >
    > Vibrations from the shutter or mirror? I'm not sure there's much you
    > can do about the shutter.


    The mirror is the only cause of vibrations that matters.

    --
    Med venlig hilsen/Kind regards,
    Hans Kruse www.hanskruse.com, http://hans-kruse.blogspot.com/
    Hans Kruse, Jul 8, 2008
    #4
  5. Don Stauffer in Minnesota

    Steve Guest

    On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 15:13:04 +0200, "Hans Kruse"
    <> wrote:

    >Steve wrote:
    >>
    >> Vibrations from the shutter or mirror? I'm not sure there's much you
    >> can do about the shutter.

    >
    >The mirror is the only cause of vibrations that matters.


    I would think the shutter matters also, at least a little. Especially
    for a big focal plane shutter. But since there's not much you can do
    about it...

    Steve
    Steve, Jul 8, 2008
    #5
  6. Steve <> wrote:
    >Vibrations from the shutter or mirror? I'm not sure there's much you
    >can do about the shutter.


    Oh yes, you can. Replace those pesky, obsolete, mechanical shutters with
    modern, fancy, electronic shutters. This has been done in P&S for a long
    time and it is surprising that dSLR are so far behind in development.

    At least that's what some people are thinking,I guess. Unless of course
    they are just plain trolling.

    jue
    Jürgen Exner, Jul 8, 2008
    #6
  7. Don Stauffer in Minnesota

    Hans Kruse Guest

    "Steve" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > I would think the shutter matters also, at least a little. Especially
    > for a big focal plane shutter. But since there's not much you can do
    > about it...


    My observation with my own camera (Canon 1Ds mk3) is that image detail and
    sharpnes for shutter speeds to require a tripod for ultimate quality will be
    visibly affected by lack of tripod stability and mirror slapping. Given that
    these two sources are controlled I find very detailed and high quality in
    the resulting images when using first class glass. On a tripod I often use
    only live view and zoomed into 10x so that it is possible to visibly control
    that er no vibrations and then take the picture with a cable release. I
    can't speak for all cameras, but for mine there is no issue with the
    shutter. If there was ther would be a different visible resolution and
    sharpness at lower shutter speeds than at very high shutter speeds and there
    is no difference as long as the light is not very low.

    --
    Med venlig hilsen/Kind regards,
    Hans Kruse www.hanskruse.com, http://hans-kruse.blogspot.com/
    Hans Kruse, Jul 8, 2008
    #7
  8. Don Stauffer in Minnesota

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Jürgen Exner
    <> wrote:

    > Steve <> wrote:
    > >Vibrations from the shutter or mirror? I'm not sure there's much you
    > >can do about the shutter.

    >
    > Oh yes, you can. Replace those pesky, obsolete, mechanical shutters with
    > modern, fancy, electronic shutters. This has been done in P&S for a long
    > time and it is surprising that dSLR are so far behind in development.


    which affects shutter lag time and sensor blooming. there's always
    tradeoffs...
    nospam, Jul 8, 2008
    #8
  9. nospam <> wrote:
    >In article <>, Jürgen Exner
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >> Steve <> wrote:
    >> >Vibrations from the shutter or mirror? I'm not sure there's much you
    >> >can do about the shutter.

    >>
    >> Oh yes, you can. Replace those pesky, obsolete, mechanical shutters with
    >> modern, fancy, electronic shutters. This has been done in P&S for a long
    >> time and it is surprising that dSLR are so far behind in development.

    >
    >which affects shutter lag time and sensor blooming. there's always
    >tradeoffs...


    OMG, how large to I have to write those <SARCASM> tags?

    jue
    Jürgen Exner, Jul 8, 2008
    #9
  10. David Harmon <> wrote:
    > On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:30:11 GMT in rec.photo.digital, J?rgen Exner
    > <> wrote,
    >>nospam <> wrote:
    >>>In article <>, J?rgen Exner
    >>><> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Steve <> wrote:
    >>>> >Vibrations from the shutter or mirror? I'm not sure there's much you
    >>>> >can do about the shutter.
    >>>>
    >>>> Oh yes, you can. Replace those pesky, obsolete, mechanical shutters with
    >>>> modern, fancy, electronic shutters. This has been done in P&S for a long
    >>>> time and it is surprising that dSLR are so far behind in development.
    >>>
    >>>which affects shutter lag time and sensor blooming. there's always
    >>>tradeoffs...

    >>
    >>OMG, how large to I have to write those <SARCASM> tags?


    > There is no sarcasm on Usenet. It was tried; it didn't work.


    It didn't work in the US :)

    --
    Chris Malcolm DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
    Chris Malcolm, Jul 9, 2008
    #10
  11. John McWilliams <> wrote:
    > Chris Malcolm wrote:
    >> David Harmon <> wrote:
    >>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:30:11 GMT in rec.photo.digital, J?rgen Exner
    >>> <> wrote,
    >>>> nospam <> wrote:
    >>>>> In article <>, J?rgen Exner
    >>>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Steve <> wrote:
    >>>>>>> Vibrations from the shutter or mirror? I'm not sure there's much you
    >>>>>>> can do about the shutter.
    >>>>>> Oh yes, you can. Replace those pesky, obsolete, mechanical shutters with
    >>>>>> modern, fancy, electronic shutters. This has been done in P&S for a long
    >>>>>> time and it is surprising that dSLR are so far behind in development.
    >>>>> which affects shutter lag time and sensor blooming. there's always
    >>>>> tradeoffs...
    >>>> OMG, how large to I have to write those <SARCASM> tags?

    >>
    >>> There is no sarcasm on Usenet. It was tried; it didn't work.

    >>
    >> It didn't work in the US :)


    > Cute, Chris. You've shown yourself to be a xenophobe, smilies
    > notwithstanding.


    That's a peculiarly parochial definition of xenophobe you're using :)

    --
    Chris Malcolm DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
    Chris Malcolm, Jul 10, 2008
    #11
  12. John McWilliams <> wrote:
    > Chris Malcolm wrote:
    >> John McWilliams <> wrote:
    >>> Chris Malcolm wrote:
    >>>> David Harmon <> wrote:
    >>>>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:30:11 GMT in rec.photo.digital, J?rgen Exner
    >>>>> <> wrote,
    >>>>>> nospam <> wrote:
    >>>>>>> In article <>, J?rgen Exner
    >>>>>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Steve <> wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> Vibrations from the shutter or mirror? I'm not sure there's much you
    >>>>>>>>> can do about the shutter.
    >>>>>>>> Oh yes, you can. Replace those pesky, obsolete, mechanical shutters with
    >>>>>>>> modern, fancy, electronic shutters. This has been done in P&S for a long
    >>>>>>>> time and it is surprising that dSLR are so far behind in development.
    >>>>>>> which affects shutter lag time and sensor blooming. there's always
    >>>>>>> tradeoffs...
    >>>>>> OMG, how large to I have to write those <SARCASM> tags?
    >>>>> There is no sarcasm on Usenet. It was tried; it didn't work.
    >>>> It didn't work in the US :)

    >>
    >>> Cute, Chris. You've shown yourself to be a xenophobe, smilies
    >>> notwithstanding.

    >>
    >> That's a peculiarly parochial definition of xenophobe you're using :)


    > Parochial is as parochial does, n'est-ce pas?


    And a similarly parochial definition of parochial.

    --
    Chris Malcolm DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
    Chris Malcolm, Jul 10, 2008
    #12
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