Re: Tale of the Laser - redux

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Robert Coe, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:56:40 -0700, Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    : Well here is the outcome of one of the "Laser pointed at aircraft"
    : cases which we had discussed some weeks ago.
    : <
    : http://www.sacbee.com/2013/03/25/5292168/la-man-gets-2-12-years-for-laser.html

    Commit the crime, do the time.

    But this is the USA. His lawyers will get him off on appeeeeeal. :^(

    Bob
    Robert Coe, Mar 28, 2013
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Robert Coe

    Guest Guest

    Robert Coe <> wrote:
    > On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:56:40 -0700, Savageduck
    > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >> Well here is the outcome of one of the "Laser pointed at aircraft"
    >> cases which we had discussed some weeks ago.
    >> <
    >> http://www.sacbee.com/2013/03/25/5292168/la-man-gets-2-12-years-for-laser.html

    >
    > Commit the crime, do the time.
    >
    > But this is the USA. His lawyers will get him off on appeeeeeal. :^(
    >
    > Bob


    When an inmate gets released on appeal, can his attorneys help him sue the
    government for damages due to wrongful imprisonment? If so

    1. Commit crime that has prison sentence.
    2. Get arrested.
    3. ...
    4. Profit.
    Guest, Mar 30, 2013
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 02:51:05 +0000 (UTC), <> wrote:
    : Robert Coe <> wrote:
    : > On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:56:40 -0700, Savageduck
    : > <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    : >> Well here is the outcome of one of the "Laser pointed at aircraft"
    : >> cases which we had discussed some weeks ago.
    : >> <
    : >> http://www.sacbee.com/2013/03/25/5292168/la-man-gets-2-12-years-for-laser.html
    : >
    : > Commit the crime, do the time.
    : >
    : > But this is the USA. His lawyers will get him off on appeeeeeal. :^(
    : >
    : > Bob
    :
    : When an inmate gets released on appeal, can his attorneys help him sue the
    : government for damages due to wrongful imprisonment? If so
    :
    : 1. Commit crime that has prison sentence.
    : 2. Get arrested.
    : 3. ...
    : 4. Profit.

    Don't get me started. Here in Massachusetts we have a savage murderer doing
    life in prison. He's decided that he's unhappy with his sex and would feel
    better about spending the rest of his life in the joint if he were a woman.
    His lawyer has managed to get a Federal judge to order the state to pay for an
    absurdly expensive sex-change operation. The state has appealed the order and
    should obviously take it to the Supreme Court if the appeals court backs the
    judge. But many here suspect that the mealy-mouthed, wishy-washy Commonwealth
    of Massachusetts will eventually cave and let the perp get carved up at public
    expense, as he desires.

    Bob
    Robert Coe, Mar 30, 2013
    #3
  4. "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Don't get me started. Here in Massachusetts we have a savage murderer
    > doing life in prison. He's decided that he's unhappy with his sex and
    > would feel better about spending the rest of his life in the joint if he
    > were a woman. His lawyer has managed to get a Federal judge to order the
    > state to pay for an absurdly expensive sex-change operation. The state has
    > appealed the order and should obviously take it to the Supreme Court if
    > the appeals court backs the judge. But many here suspect that the
    > mealy-mouthed, wishy-washy Commonwealth of Massachusetts will eventually
    > cave and let the perp get carved up at public expense, as he desires.


    Spoken like a true bigot who doesn't understand the first thing about human
    rights law and the challenges facing transgender people. Please, educate
    your knee-jerk mouth before you go shooting it off.

    Some reading for you:

    http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/06/17/historic-decision-united-nations

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_Day_of_Remembrance

    http://www.aidsalliance.org/NewsDetails.aspx?Id=291508
    http://www.aidsalliance.org/includes/Publication/Violencia-e-impunidad-English.- Ver1.1.pdf

    --
    Charles E. Hardwidge
    Charles E. Hardwidge, Mar 31, 2013
    #4
  5. On 3/31/2013 10:19 AM, Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    > "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >> Don't get me started. Here in Massachusetts we have a savage murderer
    >> doing life in prison. He's decided that he's unhappy with his sex and
    >> would feel better about spending the rest of his life in the joint if he
    >> were a woman. His lawyer has managed to get a Federal judge to order the
    >> state to pay for an absurdly expensive sex-change operation. The state
    >> has
    >> appealed the order and should obviously take it to the Supreme Court if
    >> the appeals court backs the judge. But many here suspect that the
    >> mealy-mouthed, wishy-washy Commonwealth of Massachusetts will eventually
    >> cave and let the perp get carved up at public expense, as he desires.

    >
    > Spoken like a true bigot who doesn't understand the first thing about human
    > rights law and the challenges facing transgender people. Please, educate
    > your knee-jerk mouth before you go shooting it off.
    >
    > Some reading for you:
    >
    > http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/06/17/historic-decision-united-nations
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_Day_of_Remembrance
    >
    > http://www.aidsalliance.org/NewsDetails.aspx?Id=291508
    > http://www.aidsalliance.org/includes/Publication/Violencia-e-impunidad-English.- Ver1.1.pdf
    >
    >

    Yes, a believer in the notion that miscarriages of justice never occur,
    the law a perfect instrument and all who are charged with crimes are guilty.

    --
    Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

    Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
    James Silverton, Mar 31, 2013
    #5
  6. Robert Coe

    nick c Guest

    Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    > "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >> Don't get me started. Here in Massachusetts we have a savage murderer
    >> doing life in prison. He's decided that he's unhappy with his sex and
    >> would feel better about spending the rest of his life in the joint if he
    >> were a woman. His lawyer has managed to get a Federal judge to order the
    >> state to pay for an absurdly expensive sex-change operation. The state
    >> has
    >> appealed the order and should obviously take it to the Supreme Court if
    >> the appeals court backs the judge. But many here suspect that the
    >> mealy-mouthed, wishy-washy Commonwealth of Massachusetts will eventually
    >> cave and let the perp get carved up at public expense, as he desires.

    >
    > Spoken like a true bigot who doesn't understand the first thing about human
    > rights law and the challenges facing transgender people. Please, educate
    > your knee-jerk mouth before you go shooting it off.


    Bigot!! Coe!! Not as far as I'm concerned. You post an opinion of a new
    mind-set which is nonsense personified. An opinion that can be viewed as
    an example that human-beings ofttimes display a trail-horse mentality.





    >
    > Some reading for you:
    >
    > http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/06/17/historic-decision-united-nations
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_Day_of_Remembrance
    >
    > http://www.aidsalliance.org/NewsDetails.aspx?Id=291508
    > http://www.aidsalliance.org/includes/Publication/Violencia-e-impunidad-English.- Ver1.1.pdf
    >
    >
    nick c, Mar 31, 2013
    #6
  7. "nick c" <> wrote in message
    news:kjadet$379$...
    > Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    >> "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>> Don't get me started. Here in Massachusetts we have a savage murderer
    >>> doing life in prison. He's decided that he's unhappy with his sex and
    >>> would feel better about spending the rest of his life in the joint if he
    >>> were a woman. His lawyer has managed to get a Federal judge to order the
    >>> state to pay for an absurdly expensive sex-change operation. The state
    >>> has appealed the order and should obviously take it to the Supreme Court
    >>> if the appeals court backs the judge. But many here suspect that the
    >>> mealy-mouthed, wishy-washy Commonwealth of Massachusetts will eventually
    >>> cave and let the perp get carved up at public expense, as he desires.

    >>
    >> Spoken like a true bigot who doesn't understand the first thing about
    >> human rights law and the challenges facing transgender people. Please,
    >> educate your knee-jerk mouth before you go shooting it off.

    >
    > Bigot!! Coe!! Not as far as I'm concerned. You post an opinion of a new
    > mind-set which is nonsense personified. An opinion that can be viewed as
    > an example that human-beings ofttimes display a trail-horse mentality.


    Transgender people have been around since whenever and not even the British
    Empire could stamp them out in India. Transgenderism is a recognised medical
    condition and includes but is not limited to a range of intersex conditions.
    According to the latest research transgender people may also suffer from
    transphobia or misunderstanding the condition by cisgender people which may
    cause stress and depression greater than what ethnic and other minorities
    face and, in the cited case at least, may have been a mitigating factor to
    the crime. In large parts of the world including Africa and most of the
    Middle-East their punishment for the crime of existing is the death penalty.

    Not only does Coe show a cavalier disregard for someone's human rights and
    no knowledge of their condition but is also discourteous to a person who is
    medically and legally a woman by going out of his way to misgender her. She
    also has a name which I note Coe is not using in what is an obvious attempt
    to judge and objectify another human being. Her name is Michelle Kosilek for
    anyone not paying attention. Thank you.

    --
    Charles E. Hardwidge
    Charles E. Hardwidge, Apr 1, 2013
    #7
  8. Robert Coe

    nick c Guest

    On 3/31/2013 6:35 PM, Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    >
    > "nick c" <> wrote in message
    > news:kjadet$379$...
    >> Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    >>> "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>
    >>>> Don't get me started. Here in Massachusetts we have a savage murderer
    >>>> doing life in prison. He's decided that he's unhappy with his sex and
    >>>> would feel better about spending the rest of his life in the joint
    >>>> if he
    >>>> were a woman. His lawyer has managed to get a Federal judge to order
    >>>> the
    >>>> state to pay for an absurdly expensive sex-change operation. The state
    >>>> has appealed the order and should obviously take it to the Supreme
    >>>> Court
    >>>> if the appeals court backs the judge. But many here suspect that the
    >>>> mealy-mouthed, wishy-washy Commonwealth of Massachusetts will
    >>>> eventually
    >>>> cave and let the perp get carved up at public expense, as he desires.
    >>>
    >>> Spoken like a true bigot who doesn't understand the first thing about
    >>> human rights law and the challenges facing transgender people. Please,
    >>> educate your knee-jerk mouth before you go shooting it off.

    >>
    >> Bigot!! Coe!! Not as far as I'm concerned. You post an opinion of a new
    >> mind-set which is nonsense personified. An opinion that can be viewed as
    >> an example that human-beings ofttimes display a trail-horse mentality.

    >
    > Transgender people have been around since whenever and not even the British
    > Empire could stamp them out in India. Transgenderism is a recognised
    > medical
    > condition and includes but is not limited to a range of intersex
    > conditions.
    > According to the latest research transgender people may also suffer from
    > transphobia or misunderstanding the condition by cisgender people which may
    > cause stress and depression greater than what ethnic and other minorities
    > face and, in the cited case at least, may have been a mitigating factor to
    > the crime. In large parts of the world including Africa and most of the
    > Middle-East their punishment for the crime of existing is the death
    > penalty.
    >
    > Not only does Coe show a cavalier disregard for someone's human rights and
    > no knowledge of their condition but is also discourteous to a person who is
    > medically and legally a woman by going out of his way to misgender her. She
    > also has a name which I note Coe is not using in what is an obvious attempt
    > to judge and objectify another human being. Her name is Michelle Kosilek
    > for
    > anyone not paying attention. Thank you.
    >


    ....... and should anyone openly disagree with your definition of a human
    right you would immediately correct the situation through vilification.
    Wise up, it doesn't work.
    nick c, Apr 1, 2013
    #8
  9. "nick c" <> wrote in message
    news:kjb2je$cpa$...

    > ...... and should anyone openly disagree with your definition of a human
    > right you would immediately correct the situation through vilification.
    > Wise up, it doesn't work.


    Sorry but I ain't feeding an obvious troll...

    cya.

    --
    Charles E. Hardwidge
    Charles E. Hardwidge, Apr 1, 2013
    #9
  10. Robert Coe

    nick c Guest

    On 3/31/2013 9:47 PM, Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    >
    > "nick c" <> wrote in message
    > news:kjb2je$cpa$...
    >
    >> ...... and should anyone openly disagree with your definition of a
    >> human right you would immediately correct the situation through
    >> vilification. Wise up, it doesn't work.

    >
    > Sorry but I ain't feeding an obvious troll...
    >
    > cya.
    >


    You can run but you can't hide.
    nick c, Apr 1, 2013
    #10
  11. nick c <> wrote:

    > ...... and should anyone openly disagree with your definition of a human
    > right you would immediately correct the situation through vilification.
    > Wise up, it doesn't work.


    So basically *your* definition of human rights is the only
    valid ones and/or human rights don't apply to certain groups,
    say Negros, Indians, Untermenschen, Jews and felons ...

    -Wolfgang
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Apr 1, 2013
    #11
  12. Robert Coe

    nick c Guest

    On 4/1/2013 1:48 PM, Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
    > nick c <> wrote:
    >
    >> ...... and should anyone openly disagree with your definition of a human
    >> right you would immediately correct the situation through vilification.
    >> Wise up, it doesn't work.

    >
    > So basically *your* definition of human rights is the only
    > valid ones and/or human rights don't apply to certain groups,
    > say Negros, Indians, Untermenschen, Jews and felons ...
    >
    > -Wolfgang
    >


    What definition of mine are you referring to?
    nick c, Apr 1, 2013
    #12
  13. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 02:35:18 +0100, "Charles E. Hardwidge"
    <> wrote:
    :
    : "nick c" <> wrote in message
    : news:kjadet$379$...
    : > Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    : >> "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    : >> news:...
    : >>
    : >>> Don't get me started. Here in Massachusetts we have a savage murderer
    : >>> doing life in prison. He's decided that he's unhappy with his sex and
    : >>> would feel better about spending the rest of his life in the joint if he
    : >>> were a woman. His lawyer has managed to get a Federal judge to order the
    : >>> state to pay for an absurdly expensive sex-change operation. The state
    : >>> has appealed the order and should obviously take it to the Supreme Court
    : >>> if the appeals court backs the judge. But many here suspect that the
    : >>> mealy-mouthed, wishy-washy Commonwealth of Massachusetts will eventually
    : >>> cave and let the perp get carved up at public expense, as he desires.
    : >>
    : >> Spoken like a true bigot who doesn't understand the first thing about
    : >> human rights law and the challenges facing transgender people. Please,
    : >> educate your knee-jerk mouth before you go shooting it off.
    : >
    : > Bigot!! Coe!! Not as far as I'm concerned. You post an opinion of a new
    : > mind-set which is nonsense personified. An opinion that can be viewed as
    : > an example that human-beings ofttimes display a trail-horse mentality.
    :
    : Transgender people have been around since whenever and not even the British
    : Empire could stamp them out in India.

    The situation of eunuchs in India is so radically different that the
    comparison is ludicrous.

    : Transgenderism is a recognised medical condition and includes but is not
    : limited to a range of intersex conditions.

    Whatever that means.

    : According to the latest research transgender people may also suffer from
    : transphobia or misunderstanding the condition by cisgender people which may
    : cause stress and depression greater than what ethnic and other minorities
    : face and, in the cited case at least, may have been a mitigating factor to
    : the crime.

    I don't believe the defense brought it up at trial, and I doubt that
    Massachusetts law recognizes it as a mitigating factor anyway.

    : In large parts of the world including Africa and most of the Middle-East
    : their punishment for the crime of existing is the death penalty.

    This guy murdered his wife, and the facts of the case are not in dispute,
    AFAIK. In any case, he was convicted under due process of law. And
    Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty, so your dragging in Africa and
    the Middle East is also nonsense.

    : Not only does Coe show a cavalier disregard for someone's human rights and
    : no knowledge of their condition but is also discourteous

    "Discourteous" to a convicted murderer?? Surely you jest.

    : to a person who is medically and legally a woman

    Rubbish. I'm 99% certain that you're neither a lawyer nor a physician, so that
    statement is meaningless.

    : by going out of his way to misgender her.

    Him. Whatever a person's mental persuasion regarding his/her sexuality,
    his/her sex is what it is for genetic reasons. A "sex change" operation (which
    he hasn't even had) doesn't affect that.

    : She also has a name which I note Coe is not using in what is an obvious
    : attempt to judge and objectify another human being. Her name is Michelle
    : Kosilek for anyone not paying attention. Thank you.

    He tried to get his name legally changed, but I believe he was unsuccessful.
    It may still be being litigated. You seem to think you know a lot about the
    case; do you have anything factual to contribute?

    All of this is irrelevant anyway. The law in Massachusetts doesn't allow a
    convicted and imprisoned felon to demand and get a sex change operation. It's
    the Federal Government's order, and it should be appealed by the state, IMO.

    Bob
    Robert Coe, Apr 2, 2013
    #13
  14. "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 02:35:18 +0100, "Charles E. Hardwidge"
    > <> wrote:
    > :
    > : "nick c" <> wrote in message
    > : news:kjadet$379$...
    > : > Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    > : >> "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    > : >> news:...
    > : >>
    > : >>> Don't get me started. Here in Massachusetts we have a savage
    > murderer
    > : >>> doing life in prison. He's decided that he's unhappy with his sex
    > and
    > : >>> would feel better about spending the rest of his life in the joint
    > if he
    > : >>> were a woman. His lawyer has managed to get a Federal judge to order
    > the
    > : >>> state to pay for an absurdly expensive sex-change operation. The
    > state
    > : >>> has appealed the order and should obviously take it to the Supreme
    > Court
    > : >>> if the appeals court backs the judge. But many here suspect that the
    > : >>> mealy-mouthed, wishy-washy Commonwealth of Massachusetts will
    > eventually
    > : >>> cave and let the perp get carved up at public expense, as he
    > desires.
    > : >>
    > : >> Spoken like a true bigot who doesn't understand the first thing about
    > : >> human rights law and the challenges facing transgender people.
    > Please,
    > : >> educate your knee-jerk mouth before you go shooting it off.
    > : >
    > : > Bigot!! Coe!! Not as far as I'm concerned. You post an opinion of a
    > new
    > : > mind-set which is nonsense personified. An opinion that can be viewed
    > as
    > : > an example that human-beings ofttimes display a trail-horse mentality.
    > :
    > : Transgender people have been around since whenever and not even the
    > British
    > : Empire could stamp them out in India.
    >
    > The situation of eunuchs in India is so radically different that the
    > comparison is ludicrous.
    >
    > : Transgenderism is a recognised medical condition and includes but is not
    > : limited to a range of intersex conditions.
    >
    > Whatever that means.
    >
    > : According to the latest research transgender people may also suffer from
    > : transphobia or misunderstanding the condition by cisgender people which
    > may
    > : cause stress and depression greater than what ethnic and other
    > minorities
    > : face and, in the cited case at least, may have been a mitigating factor
    > to
    > : the crime.
    >
    > I don't believe the defense brought it up at trial, and I doubt that
    > Massachusetts law recognizes it as a mitigating factor anyway.
    >
    > : In large parts of the world including Africa and most of the Middle-East
    > : their punishment for the crime of existing is the death penalty.
    >
    > This guy murdered his wife, and the facts of the case are not in dispute,
    > AFAIK. In any case, he was convicted under due process of law. And
    > Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty, so your dragging in Africa
    > and
    > the Middle East is also nonsense.
    >
    > : Not only does Coe show a cavalier disregard for someone's human rights
    > and
    > : no knowledge of their condition but is also discourteous
    >
    > "Discourteous" to a convicted murderer?? Surely you jest.
    >
    > : to a person who is medically and legally a woman
    >
    > Rubbish. I'm 99% certain that you're neither a lawyer nor a physician, so
    > that
    > statement is meaningless.
    >
    > : by going out of his way to misgender her.
    >
    > Him. Whatever a person's mental persuasion regarding his/her sexuality,
    > his/her sex is what it is for genetic reasons. A "sex change" operation
    > (which
    > he hasn't even had) doesn't affect that.
    >
    > : She also has a name which I note Coe is not using in what is an obvious
    > : attempt to judge and objectify another human being. Her name is Michelle
    > : Kosilek for anyone not paying attention. Thank you.
    >
    > He tried to get his name legally changed, but I believe he was
    > unsuccessful.
    > It may still be being litigated. You seem to think you know a lot about
    > the
    > case; do you have anything factual to contribute?
    >
    > All of this is irrelevant anyway. The law in Massachusetts doesn't allow a
    > convicted and imprisoned felon to demand and get a sex change operation.
    > It's
    > the Federal Government's order, and it should be appealed by the state,
    > IMO.


    I've personally taken the time to educate myself about transgender law and
    medical practice and history on multiple continents. Bearing in mind I'm in
    the UK why should I educate a bigoted American about what's going on in
    their own back yard?

    * Michelle Kosilek's transgender status was a contributory factor to the
    original crime. The defence pointed out in trial how her now deceased wife
    made an issue of this. All of this information including different views to
    legislators and prosecutors with an agenda is available with a web search.

    * There is very little academic research conducted on transgender issues
    with the vast bulk being researched in the US. The very latest research from
    Boston University last year confirms the impact on transphobia on mental
    health (before we even get into issues like denial of healthcare and
    employment and hate crimes).

    * Oppression of transgenders is often linked to political and religious
    transphobia. Transgenders were part of earlier pagan culture much like they
    are in India before the Catholic church stamped them out - a tradition which
    puritan Americans and British imperialists inherited. Anglo-Saxon political
    and religious wingnuttery may not by as bad as Africa and the Middle-East
    but is certainly a contributory factor.

    * There is no known single cause of transgenderism. The condition covers a
    range of physiological and sociological issues and includes but is not
    limited to intersex conditions and chimerism. Transgenders are persistent
    across history and cultures with an estimated incidence of around 1% which
    is suggestive of something very real not a fashion statement.

    * Transgenders are not mental. Indeed, without the contribution of
    transgender women like Lynn Conway the integrated circuit as we know it
    would not exist, you would not be reading this post on a computer, and your
    digital camera would still only exist in the realms of science fiction.

    It's not my job to educate people on this and, quite frankly, I just don't
    care enough about transphobes to argue it out with them. According to the
    latest surveys this is mostly a generational issue. All the old white men,
    like Robert KKKoe, who don't get it will be dying off soon and almost
    everyone under the age of 30 does get it.

    --
    Charles E. Hardwidge
    Charles E. Hardwidge, Apr 2, 2013
    #14
  15. nick c <> wrote:
    > On 4/1/2013 1:48 PM, Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
    >> nick c <> wrote:


    >>> ...... and should anyone openly disagree with your definition of a human
    >>> right you would immediately correct the situation through vilification.
    >>> Wise up, it doesn't work.


    >> So basically *your* definition of human rights is the only
    >> valid ones and/or human rights don't apply to certain groups,
    >> say Negros, Indians, Untermenschen, Jews and felons ...


    > What definition of mine are you referring to?


    The one you are using, never mind if you are even able to
    write it down.

    -Wolfgang
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Apr 2, 2013
    #15
  16. Robert Coe <> wrote:
    > On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 02:35:18 +0100, "Charles E. Hardwidge"


    >: Transgender people have been around since whenever and not even the British
    >: Empire could stamp them out in India.


    > The situation of eunuchs in India is so radically different that the
    > comparison is ludicrous.


    You think Eunuchs == Transgender and Transgender == Eunuchs?
    Really?


    >: Transgenderism is a recognised medical condition and includes but is not
    >: limited to a range of intersex conditions.


    > Whatever that means.


    ICD-10 F64


    >: Not only does Coe show a cavalier disregard for someone's human rights and
    >: no knowledge of their condition but is also discourteous


    > "Discourteous" to a convicted murderer?? Surely you jest.


    If you truly believe convicted persons are subhuman and you
    need to denigrate yourself by being uncivilised towards them,
    you're right. (I'll let your theologican explain to you how
    your religion sees such a thing.)


    >: by going out of his way to misgender her.


    > Him. Whatever a person's mental persuasion regarding his/her sexuality,
    > his/her sex is what it is for genetic reasons. A "sex change" operation (which
    > he hasn't even had) doesn't affect that.


    sex != gender.
    And sex != sexuality (an obvious one is sex: male,
    sexuality: prefers males)

    Read closely: "misgender", not "missex".

    Oh, it may be that your definitions of gender and sex don't
    match the dictionary.

    -Wolfgang
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Apr 2, 2013
    #16
  17. Robert Coe

    Tony Cooper Guest

    On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 06:49:40 +0100, "Charles E. Hardwidge"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 02:35:18 +0100, "Charles E. Hardwidge"
    >> <> wrote:
    >> :
    >> : "nick c" <> wrote in message
    >> : news:kjadet$379$...
    >> : > Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    >> : >> "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    >> : >> news:...
    >> : >>
    >> : >>> Don't get me started. Here in Massachusetts we have a savage
    >> murderer
    >> : >>> doing life in prison. He's decided that he's unhappy with his sex
    >> and
    >> : >>> would feel better about spending the rest of his life in the joint
    >> if he
    >> : >>> were a woman. His lawyer has managed to get a Federal judge to order
    >> the
    >> : >>> state to pay for an absurdly expensive sex-change operation. The
    >> state
    >> : >>> has appealed the order and should obviously take it to the Supreme
    >> Court
    >> : >>> if the appeals court backs the judge. But many here suspect that the
    >> : >>> mealy-mouthed, wishy-washy Commonwealth of Massachusetts will
    >> eventually
    >> : >>> cave and let the perp get carved up at public expense, as he
    >> desires.
    >> : >>
    >> : >> Spoken like a true bigot who doesn't understand the first thing about
    >> : >> human rights law and the challenges facing transgender people.
    >> Please,
    >> : >> educate your knee-jerk mouth before you go shooting it off.
    >> : >
    >> : > Bigot!! Coe!! Not as far as I'm concerned. You post an opinion of a
    >> new
    >> : > mind-set which is nonsense personified. An opinion that can be viewed
    >> as
    >> : > an example that human-beings ofttimes display a trail-horse mentality.
    >> :
    >> : Transgender people have been around since whenever and not even the
    >> British
    >> : Empire could stamp them out in India.
    >>
    >> The situation of eunuchs in India is so radically different that the
    >> comparison is ludicrous.
    >>
    >> : Transgenderism is a recognised medical condition and includes but is not
    >> : limited to a range of intersex conditions.
    >>
    >> Whatever that means.
    >>
    >> : According to the latest research transgender people may also suffer from
    >> : transphobia or misunderstanding the condition by cisgender people which
    >> may
    >> : cause stress and depression greater than what ethnic and other
    >> minorities
    >> : face and, in the cited case at least, may have been a mitigating factor
    >> to
    >> : the crime.
    >>
    >> I don't believe the defense brought it up at trial, and I doubt that
    >> Massachusetts law recognizes it as a mitigating factor anyway.
    >>
    >> : In large parts of the world including Africa and most of the Middle-East
    >> : their punishment for the crime of existing is the death penalty.
    >>
    >> This guy murdered his wife, and the facts of the case are not in dispute,
    >> AFAIK. In any case, he was convicted under due process of law. And
    >> Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty, so your dragging in Africa
    >> and
    >> the Middle East is also nonsense.
    >>
    >> : Not only does Coe show a cavalier disregard for someone's human rights
    >> and
    >> : no knowledge of their condition but is also discourteous
    >>
    >> "Discourteous" to a convicted murderer?? Surely you jest.
    >>
    >> : to a person who is medically and legally a woman
    >>
    >> Rubbish. I'm 99% certain that you're neither a lawyer nor a physician, so
    >> that
    >> statement is meaningless.
    >>
    >> : by going out of his way to misgender her.
    >>
    >> Him. Whatever a person's mental persuasion regarding his/her sexuality,
    >> his/her sex is what it is for genetic reasons. A "sex change" operation
    >> (which
    >> he hasn't even had) doesn't affect that.
    >>
    >> : She also has a name which I note Coe is not using in what is an obvious
    >> : attempt to judge and objectify another human being. Her name is Michelle
    >> : Kosilek for anyone not paying attention. Thank you.
    >>
    >> He tried to get his name legally changed, but I believe he was
    >> unsuccessful.
    >> It may still be being litigated. You seem to think you know a lot about
    >> the
    >> case; do you have anything factual to contribute?
    >>
    >> All of this is irrelevant anyway. The law in Massachusetts doesn't allow a
    >> convicted and imprisoned felon to demand and get a sex change operation.
    >> It's
    >> the Federal Government's order, and it should be appealed by the state,
    >> IMO.

    >
    >I've personally taken the time to educate myself about transgender law and
    >medical practice and history on multiple continents. Bearing in mind I'm in
    >the UK why should I educate a bigoted American about what's going on in
    >their own back yard?
    >
    >* Michelle Kosilek's transgender status was a contributory factor to the
    >original crime. The defence pointed out in trial how her now deceased wife
    >made an issue of this. All of this information including different views to
    >legislators and prosecutors with an agenda is available with a web search.
    >
    >* There is very little academic research conducted on transgender issues
    >with the vast bulk being researched in the US. The very latest research from
    >Boston University last year confirms the impact on transphobia on mental
    >health (before we even get into issues like denial of healthcare and
    >employment and hate crimes).
    >
    >* Oppression of transgenders is often linked to political and religious
    >transphobia. Transgenders were part of earlier pagan culture much like they
    >are in India before the Catholic church stamped them out - a tradition which
    >puritan Americans and British imperialists inherited. Anglo-Saxon political
    >and religious wingnuttery may not by as bad as Africa and the Middle-East
    >but is certainly a contributory factor.
    >
    >* There is no known single cause of transgenderism. The condition covers a
    >range of physiological and sociological issues and includes but is not
    >limited to intersex conditions and chimerism. Transgenders are persistent
    >across history and cultures with an estimated incidence of around 1% which
    >is suggestive of something very real not a fashion statement.
    >
    >* Transgenders are not mental. Indeed, without the contribution of
    >transgender women like Lynn Conway the integrated circuit as we know it
    >would not exist, you would not be reading this post on a computer, and your
    >digital camera would still only exist in the realms of science fiction.
    >
    >It's not my job to educate people on this and, quite frankly, I just don't
    >care enough about transphobes to argue it out with them. According to the
    >latest surveys this is mostly a generational issue. All the old white men,
    >like Robert KKKoe, who don't get it will be dying off soon and almost
    >everyone under the age of 30 does get it.


    It seems to me that you are conflating two separate issues and blaming
    Bob for a position that he hasn't advocated.

    Bob has not shown any bigotry regarding transgenders (Issue #1). What
    he has objected to is the state paying for a non-life-threatening
    medical procedure of a convicted and incarcerated murderer (Issue #2).


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
    Tony Cooper, Apr 2, 2013
    #17
  18. "Tony Cooper" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > It seems to me that you are conflating two separate issues and blaming
    > Bob for a position that he hasn't advocated.
    >
    > Bob has not shown any bigotry regarding transgenders (Issue #1). What
    > he has objected to is the state paying for a non-life-threatening
    > medical procedure of a convicted and incarcerated murderer (Issue #2).


    Don't you think Coe's denial of human rights and misgendering and general
    ignorance speaks for itself? He was quite strident and unforgiving in his
    views barked from the position of old white male cisgender privilege. Don't
    you find this at least a little bit questionable? You lot are quick enough
    to pick over tech specs and reviews if it promises you an extra six inches
    of virtual manhood...

    --
    Charles E. Hardwidge
    Charles E. Hardwidge, Apr 2, 2013
    #18
  19. Robert Coe

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Sunday, March 31, 2013 3:19:48 PM UTC+1, Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
    > "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    >
    >
    > > Don't get me started. Here in Massachusetts we have a savage murderer

    >
    > > doing life in prison. He's decided that he's unhappy with his sex and

    >
    > > would feel better about spending the rest of his life in the joint if he

    >
    > > were a woman. His lawyer has managed to get a Federal judge to order the

    >
    > > state to pay for an absurdly expensive sex-change operation. The state has

    >
    > > appealed the order and should obviously take it to the Supreme Court if

    >
    > > the appeals court backs the judge. But many here suspect that the

    >
    > > mealy-mouthed, wishy-washy Commonwealth of Massachusetts will eventually

    >
    > > cave and let the perp get carved up at public expense, as he desires.

    >
    >
    >
    > Spoken like a true bigot who doesn't understand the first thing about human
    >
    > rights law and the challenges facing transgender people.


    Or as it is in the UK were people get annoyed at such things not just because they happen but because you can't get the privaledged treatment unless you're in prison.

    > Please, educate
    >
    > your knee-jerk mouth before you go shooting it off.


    There are transgendered people that would like the operation too, I have a friend in that situation but unfotunantly rather than being a criminal he's a care worker and on minuim wage so has virually no chance of funding it himself.
    Whether or not he can have it done for free is unlikely presently, I think it unfair that criminals get preferectial treatment because others feel sorry for them.
    It's a pity these human rights aren't given to everyone equally.




    > Some reading for you:
    >
    >
    >
    > http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/06/17/historic-decision-united-nations
    >
    >
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_Day_of_Remembrance
    >
    >
    >
    > http://www.aidsalliance.org/NewsDetails.aspx?Id=291508
    >
    > http://www.aidsalliance.org/includes/Publication/Violencia-e-impunidad-English.- Ver1.1.pdf
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > Charles E. Hardwidge
    Whisky-dave, Apr 2, 2013
    #19
  20. "George Kerby" <> wrote in message
    news:CD806C2E.998F1%...
    > On 4/2/13 9:39 AM, in article kjeqek$lv1$, "Charles E.
    > Hardwidge" <> wrote:
    >
    >> "Tony Cooper" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>> It seems to me that you are conflating two separate issues and blaming
    >>> Bob for a position that he hasn't advocated.
    >>>
    >>> Bob has not shown any bigotry regarding transgenders (Issue #1). What
    >>> he has objected to is the state paying for a non-life-threatening
    >>> medical procedure of a convicted and incarcerated murderer (Issue #2).

    >>
    >> Don't you think Coe's denial of human rights and misgendering and general
    >> ignorance speaks for itself? He was quite strident and unforgiving in his
    >> views barked from the position of old white male cisgender privilege.
    >> Don't you find this at least a little bit questionable? You lot are quick
    >> enough to pick over tech specs and reviews if it promises you an extra
    >> six inches of virtual manhood...

    >
    > I am an "old white man" and I'll be DAMNED, if I have any say, to waste my
    > hard-earned taxpayer $$$ on a convicted murderer's 'sensitivity' issues
    > about their gender.
    >
    > There are a helluva lot more things that are important.
    >
    > So, can we now get back to PHOTOGRAPHY?!?
    >
    > SEREESH!


    I'm just minding my own business then, like buses, three bigots (KKKoe,
    KKKooper, and KKKerby) come along at once.

    DIE CIS-SCUM!!!

    Plenty of other people *do* care which is why Kate Bornstein was able to
    raise $100,000 in a less than week from wellwishers in the US and from
    around the world. I personally donated the entire amount from a surprise
    lottery win. Okay, it was peanuts but I was glad to do it.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/thomaspagemcbee/how-gender-outlaw-kate-bornstein-raised-100k-in-less-than-a

    --
    Charles E. Hardwidge
    Charles E. Hardwidge, Apr 2, 2013
    #20
    1. Advertising

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