Re: System Diagnosis - Hardware Issue

Discussion in 'A+ Certification' started by Fred the Ferret, Aug 31, 2006.

  1. On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:06:47 -0400
    Mister <not_a_chance@this_email_address.com> wrote:

    > I would say it was the power supply, however, if you started leaving
    > it on, it could also be a heat issue.


    I'd look at heat issues first.

    > Take the side of the case off for a day or two and see if the problem
    > continues, if it does it is a heat issue.


    Unless I'm missing something, I don't follow the logic there at all.

    The system case needs to be in place along with all blocking plates etc for
    good airflow and the cooling fans to work. But taking off the side, how does
    that diagnose anything?

    Cooling in your system needs to deal with two main heat-sources: the cpu and
    the graphics card. Look at the positioning of the graphics card first: is it
    near other cards, or anything that could be blocking air flow around it? Can
    the other cards be moved/rearranged to create better airflow? Are the IDE
    ribbon cables positioned in a way likely to block good air flow around either
    the video card or the cpu? Is the system case in a well ventilated place: does
    the fan face a wall or dead-air space? Is the problem worse on heavy use (when
    heat from the cpu/video card will increase rather than on idle), and worse on
    graphics intensive work or just processor-intensive stuff?

    The symptoms point to a heat problem, but it could be the psu: is the wattage
    sufficient for the different devices you have installed? Have you added
    anything new recently, new dvd drive, anything power hungry? Try disabling
    other devices, or swapping the psu for one from a known-good system if you have
    access to one.

    It could be the graphics card. Can you swap it out for one from a known good
    system? Does that improve things? (Although if it did, it could still be a heat
    issue related to that card.)

    It could even be a memory problem, so the advice:

    > If that does not do anything, replace the power supply.


    is perhaps a bit simplistic. (Of course it could also be corect ;-) )

    >
    Fred the Ferret, Aug 31, 2006
    #1
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  2. Fred the Ferret

    Patty Guest

    On 31 Aug 2006 12:14:09 -0000, Fred the Ferret wrote:

    > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:06:47 -0400
    > Mister <not_a_chance@this_email_address.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Take the side of the case off for a day or two and see if the problem
    >> continues, if it does it is a heat issue.

    >
    > Unless I'm missing something, I don't follow the logic there at all.
    >
    > The system case needs to be in place along with all blocking plates etc for
    > good airflow and the cooling fans to work. But taking off the side, how does
    > that diagnose anything?
    >


    It is a common practice to take the side off the case to test for temp
    problems. This equalizes the temperature inside the case to the room
    temperature, which is usually cooler. If the symptoms disappear with the
    side off, then yes, it is a heat issue.

    Most motherboards allow you to check temps in the BIOS, you could look
    there or download a program such as speedfan to see what temps are reported
    while you are running the system with the case closed. These temp readings,
    however, can be affected by how well the motherboard sensor is making
    contact with the component.

    Perhaps the video card is running too hot. NVidia has a place in their
    software that shows the temp the card is running at. You could have a look
    there and see what temp is being reported.

    Patty
    Patty, Aug 31, 2006
    #2
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  3. Fred the Ferret

    Liz Guest

    Have you tried a different monitor?

    I had an HP with similar problems. I went to HP site and found that
    there was an issue with certin monitors. The monitor had a bad
    connection, and HP replaced it.


    Fred the Ferret wrote:
    > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:06:47 -0400
    > Mister <not_a_chance@this_email_address.com> wrote:
    >
    > > I would say it was the power supply, however, if you started leaving
    > > it on, it could also be a heat issue.

    >
    > I'd look at heat issues first.
    >
    > > Take the side of the case off for a day or two and see if the problem
    > > continues, if it does it is a heat issue.

    >
    > Unless I'm missing something, I don't follow the logic there at all.
    >
    > The system case needs to be in place along with all blocking plates etc for
    > good airflow and the cooling fans to work. But taking off the side, how does
    > that diagnose anything?
    >
    > Cooling in your system needs to deal with two main heat-sources: the cpu and
    > the graphics card. Look at the positioning of the graphics card first: is it
    > near other cards, or anything that could be blocking air flow around it? Can
    > the other cards be moved/rearranged to create better airflow? Are the IDE
    > ribbon cables positioned in a way likely to block good air flow around either
    > the video card or the cpu? Is the system case in a well ventilated place: does
    > the fan face a wall or dead-air space? Is the problem worse on heavy use (when
    > heat from the cpu/video card will increase rather than on idle), and worse on
    > graphics intensive work or just processor-intensive stuff?
    >
    > The symptoms point to a heat problem, but it could be the psu: is the wattage
    > sufficient for the different devices you have installed? Have you added
    > anything new recently, new dvd drive, anything power hungry? Try disabling
    > other devices, or swapping the psu for one from a known-good system if you have
    > access to one.
    >
    > It could be the graphics card. Can you swap it out for one from a known good
    > system? Does that improve things? (Although if it did, it could still be a heat
    > issue related to that card.)
    >
    > It could even be a memory problem, so the advice:
    >
    > > If that does not do anything, replace the power supply.

    >
    > is perhaps a bit simplistic. (Of course it could also be corect ;-) )
    >
    > >
    Liz, Aug 31, 2006
    #3
  4. Fred the Ferret

    Guest

    Thanks for all the responses. You've all been helpfull, I'll remove
    the side first but the temperature gauge on the case says the inside
    temp of the computer is 86 degrees faranheit. The monitor is a 19"
    Samsung Syncmaster 955DF and this is only a recent occurance. I'll
    look into what everyone said here.

    Thanks again,
    Roger Fedor


    Liz wrote:
    > Have you tried a different monitor?
    >
    > I had an HP with similar problems. I went to HP site and found that
    > there was an issue with certin monitors. The monitor had a bad
    > connection, and HP replaced it.
    >
    >
    > Fred the Ferret wrote:
    > > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:06:47 -0400
    > > Mister <not_a_chance@this_email_address.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > > I would say it was the power supply, however, if you started leaving
    > > > it on, it could also be a heat issue.

    > >
    > > I'd look at heat issues first.
    > >
    > > > Take the side of the case off for a day or two and see if the problem
    > > > continues, if it does it is a heat issue.

    > >
    > > Unless I'm missing something, I don't follow the logic there at all.
    > >
    > > The system case needs to be in place along with all blocking plates etc for
    > > good airflow and the cooling fans to work. But taking off the side, how does
    > > that diagnose anything?
    > >
    > > Cooling in your system needs to deal with two main heat-sources: the cpu and
    > > the graphics card. Look at the positioning of the graphics card first: is it
    > > near other cards, or anything that could be blocking air flow around it? Can
    > > the other cards be moved/rearranged to create better airflow? Are the IDE
    > > ribbon cables positioned in a way likely to block good air flow around either
    > > the video card or the cpu? Is the system case in a well ventilated place: does
    > > the fan face a wall or dead-air space? Is the problem worse on heavy use (when
    > > heat from the cpu/video card will increase rather than on idle), and worse on
    > > graphics intensive work or just processor-intensive stuff?
    > >
    > > The symptoms point to a heat problem, but it could be the psu: is the wattage
    > > sufficient for the different devices you have installed? Have you added
    > > anything new recently, new dvd drive, anything power hungry? Try disabling
    > > other devices, or swapping the psu for one from a known-good system if you have
    > > access to one.
    > >
    > > It could be the graphics card. Can you swap it out for one from a known good
    > > system? Does that improve things? (Although if it did, it could still be a heat
    > > issue related to that card.)
    > >
    > > It could even be a memory problem, so the advice:
    > >
    > > > If that does not do anything, replace the power supply.

    > >
    > > is perhaps a bit simplistic. (Of course it could also be corect ;-) )
    > >
    > > >
    , Aug 31, 2006
    #4
  5. Hi Patty

    On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 09:16:51 -0400
    Patty <> wrote:

    > On 31 Aug 2006 12:14:09 -0000, Fred the Ferret wrote:
    >
    > > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:06:47 -0400
    > > Mister <not_a_chance@this_email_address.com> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Take the side of the case off for a day or two and see if the problem
    > >> continues, if it does it is a heat issue.

    > >
    > > Unless I'm missing something, I don't follow the logic there at all.
    > >
    > > The system case needs to be in place along with all blocking plates etc for
    > > good airflow and the cooling fans to work. But taking off the side, how does
    > > that diagnose anything?
    > >

    >
    > It is a common practice to take the side off the case to test for temp
    > problems. This equalizes the temperature inside the case to the room
    > temperature, which is usually cooler. If the symptoms disappear with the
    > side off, then yes, it is a heat issue.


    Well, first, 'Mister' said if the problem CONTINUES it is a heat issue :(

    Secondly, it may be common practice, but I was taught it was 'bad' practice, as
    taking off the sides stops the fans working properly, so heat can accumulate
    around the cpu / video cards, not equalise as is commonly described. A fully
    enclosed system with the fans working properly will be more efficient at
    cooling the cpu than one with the sides off: therefore any conclusions drawn by
    taking off the sides could be erroneous. It may be counterintuitive, but the
    cpu temp will be less with sides on than sides off. It is the cooling effect of
    moving air, not the ambient temperature that is significant.
    Fred the Ferret, Aug 31, 2006
    #5
  6. Fred the Ferret

    Guest

    It is true, that with the cover off, the fans in the system become
    somewhat useless and the flow of air is broken inside is broken.
    However, with heat, heat rises so it accumulates on the top of the
    system making the fans needed for when the cover is on. With the cover
    removed, the heat is not confined to the space inside in the computer
    keeping the system at room temperature. As long as the CPU fan is
    working properly, the temperture of the CPU should not make a
    difference.

    Those are just my thoughts on the situation.

    Thanks,
    Roger Fedor


    Fred the Ferret wrote:
    > Hi Patty
    >
    > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 09:16:51 -0400
    > Patty <> wrote:
    >
    > > On 31 Aug 2006 12:14:09 -0000, Fred the Ferret wrote:
    > >
    > > > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:06:47 -0400
    > > > Mister <not_a_chance@this_email_address.com> wrote:
    > > >
    > > >> Take the side of the case off for a day or two and see if the problem
    > > >> continues, if it does it is a heat issue.
    > > >
    > > > Unless I'm missing something, I don't follow the logic there at all.
    > > >
    > > > The system case needs to be in place along with all blocking plates etc for
    > > > good airflow and the cooling fans to work. But taking off the side, how does
    > > > that diagnose anything?
    > > >

    > >
    > > It is a common practice to take the side off the case to test for temp
    > > problems. This equalizes the temperature inside the case to the room
    > > temperature, which is usually cooler. If the symptoms disappear with the
    > > side off, then yes, it is a heat issue.

    >
    > Well, first, 'Mister' said if the problem CONTINUES it is a heat issue :(
    >
    > Secondly, it may be common practice, but I was taught it was 'bad' practice, as
    > taking off the sides stops the fans working properly, so heat can accumulate
    > around the cpu / video cards, not equalise as is commonly described. A fully
    > enclosed system with the fans working properly will be more efficient at
    > cooling the cpu than one with the sides off: therefore any conclusions drawn by
    > taking off the sides could be erroneous. It may be counterintuitive, but the
    > cpu temp will be less with sides on than sides off. It is the cooling effect of
    > moving air, not the ambient temperature that is significant.
    , Aug 31, 2006
    #6
  7. Fred the Ferret

    Guest

    The symptoms had mysteriously changed from what i said earlier to
    straight reboots and lockups, but after hours to tedious
    troubleshooting, replacing the graphics card, replacing the power
    supply, dusting. I've eventually came to realisation that it's neither
    of those problems and it's not overheating lol. After looking
    elsewhere for the problem... i found out that this entire issue was
    due to the need to re-seat (don't know howto spell the actually
    computer term for it lol) the ram o_O lol. It actually maybe a bad
    stick that i had in slot one cause i removed each stick one by one till
    the last one was there. Each time it would restart when at some point
    after entering windows. After replacing the last RAM stick with
    another, it started working fine, so i moved the potentially bad stick
    to the second slot and put the third stick back in and it seems to work
    fine now lol.

    So basically, if i come across the issue again, i know it's that RAM
    stick.

    Out of the years of experience building and troubleshooting my own
    systems along with friends, i should have realized that it's almost
    always the last thing you'd expect lol.

    Thanks for everyones assistance :) Appreciate it.

    Btw, I've also re-adjusted my air flow in my system lol. I had the
    back and front fans blow in, and the side fan blow out so i changed it
    so that the front blows in, the back blows out, and the side blows in
    as well. That may actually keep my system cooler.

    Thanks again :)

    Mister wrote:
    > On 31 Aug 2006 16:05:42 -0000, Fred the Ferret <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >Hi Patty
    > >
    > >On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 09:16:51 -0400
    > >Patty <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On 31 Aug 2006 12:14:09 -0000, Fred the Ferret wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:06:47 -0400
    > >> > Mister <not_a_chance@this_email_address.com> wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> >> Take the side of the case off for a day or two and see if the problem
    > >> >> continues, if it does it is a heat issue.
    > >> >
    > >> > Unless I'm missing something, I don't follow the logic there at all.
    > >> >
    > >> > The system case needs to be in place along with all blocking plates etc for
    > >> > good airflow and the cooling fans to work. But taking off the side, how does
    > >> > that diagnose anything?
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >> It is a common practice to take the side off the case to test for temp
    > >> problems. This equalizes the temperature inside the case to the room
    > >> temperature, which is usually cooler. If the symptoms disappear with the
    > >> side off, then yes, it is a heat issue.

    > >
    > >Well, first, 'Mister' said if the problem CONTINUES it is a heat issue :(
    > >
    > >Secondly, it may be common practice, but I was taught it was 'bad' practice, as
    > >taking off the sides stops the fans working properly, so heat can accumulate
    > >around the cpu / video cards, not equalise as is commonly described. A fully
    > >enclosed system with the fans working properly will be more efficient at
    > >cooling the cpu than one with the sides off: therefore any conclusions drawn by
    > >taking off the sides could be erroneous. It may be counterintuitive, but the
    > >cpu temp will be less with sides on than sides off. It is the cooling effect of
    > >moving air, not the ambient temperature that is significant.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Hi Fred the Ferret,
    >
    > Mister said:
    > "Take the side of the case off for a day or two and see if the problem
    > continues, if it does it is a heat issue."
    >
    > Sorry I missed "n't" on the word "does", meaning "doesn't"
    >
    > Correction:
    > Take the side of the case off for a day or two and see if the problem
    > continues, if it doesn't it is a heat issue.
    >
    > As far as "system case needs to be in place along with all blocking
    > plates etc for good airflow and the cooling fans to work" that sounds
    > like it is straight from the A+ hardware study section of a book and
    > not from real world experience.
    >
    > Patty is correct in agreeing with me. In the real world, removing the
    > covers will bring a computer's temperature down fairly fast.
    >
    > Please note, that if you remove the side cover and the temperature
    > drops, thus causing the computer to work properly, there may be in
    > issue with proper air flow inside the case when the cover is on, such
    > as cables and cards restricting air flow. Ah ha... logical thinking
    > will always win!
    , Sep 1, 2006
    #7
  8. Fred the Ferret

    Guest

    Lol, it wasn't a hot stick, it was a bad stick. I just removed it from
    my computer for misbehaving again lol. I'll let you know in a day or
    so wether or not the problem is fixed lol.

    Thanks,
    Roger

    Mister wrote:
    > I think the lack of air flow through your system was causing the hot
    > memory stick to jump out of your system to cool down.
    > It's a good thing those side covers were on, it might have escaped! :)
    >
    > On 31 Aug 2006 19:06:33 -0700, wrote:
    >
    > >The symptoms had mysteriously changed from what i said earlier to
    > >straight reboots and lockups, but after hours to tedious
    > >troubleshooting, replacing the graphics card, replacing the power
    > >supply, dusting. I've eventually came to realisation that it's neither
    > >of those problems and it's not overheating lol. After looking
    > >elsewhere for the problem... i found out that this entire issue was
    > >due to the need to re-seat (don't know howto spell the actually
    > >computer term for it lol) the ram o_O lol. It actually maybe a bad
    > >stick that i had in slot one cause i removed each stick one by one till
    > >the last one was there. Each time it would restart when at some point
    > >after entering windows. After replacing the last RAM stick with
    > >another, it started working fine, so i moved the potentially bad stick
    > >to the second slot and put the third stick back in and it seems to work
    > >fine now lol.
    > >
    > >So basically, if i come across the issue again, i know it's that RAM
    > >stick.
    > >
    > >Out of the years of experience building and troubleshooting my own
    > >systems along with friends, i should have realized that it's almost
    > >always the last thing you'd expect lol.
    > >
    > >Thanks for everyones assistance :) Appreciate it.
    > >
    > >Btw, I've also re-adjusted my air flow in my system lol. I had the
    > >back and front fans blow in, and the side fan blow out so i changed it
    > >so that the front blows in, the back blows out, and the side blows in
    > >as well. That may actually keep my system cooler.
    > >
    > >Thanks again :)
    > >
    > >Mister wrote:
    > >> On 31 Aug 2006 16:05:42 -0000, Fred the Ferret <>
    > >> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >Hi Patty
    > >> >
    > >> >On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 09:16:51 -0400
    > >> >Patty <> wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> >> On 31 Aug 2006 12:14:09 -0000, Fred the Ferret wrote:
    > >> >>
    > >> >> > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:06:47 -0400
    > >> >> > Mister <not_a_chance@this_email_address.com> wrote:
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >> Take the side of the case off for a day or two and see if the problem
    > >> >> >> continues, if it does it is a heat issue.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > Unless I'm missing something, I don't follow the logic there at all.
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > The system case needs to be in place along with all blocking plates etc for
    > >> >> > good airflow and the cooling fans to work. But taking off the side, how does
    > >> >> > that diagnose anything?
    > >> >> >
    > >> >>
    > >> >> It is a common practice to take the side off the case to test for temp
    > >> >> problems. This equalizes the temperature inside the case to the room
    > >> >> temperature, which is usually cooler. If the symptoms disappear with the
    > >> >> side off, then yes, it is a heat issue.
    > >> >
    > >> >Well, first, 'Mister' said if the problem CONTINUES it is a heat issue :(
    > >> >
    > >> >Secondly, it may be common practice, but I was taught it was 'bad' practice, as
    > >> >taking off the sides stops the fans working properly, so heat can accumulate
    > >> >around the cpu / video cards, not equalise as is commonly described. A fully
    > >> >enclosed system with the fans working properly will be more efficient at
    > >> >cooling the cpu than one with the sides off: therefore any conclusions drawn by
    > >> >taking off the sides could be erroneous. It may be counterintuitive, but the
    > >> >cpu temp will be less with sides on than sides off. It is the cooling effect of
    > >> >moving air, not the ambient temperature that is significant.
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >> Hi Fred the Ferret,
    > >>
    > >> Mister said:
    > >> "Take the side of the case off for a day or two and see if the problem
    > >> continues, if it does it is a heat issue."
    > >>
    > >> Sorry I missed "n't" on the word "does", meaning "doesn't"
    > >>
    > >> Correction:
    > >> Take the side of the case off for a day or two and see if the problem
    > >> continues, if it doesn't it is a heat issue.
    > >>
    > >> As far as "system case needs to be in place along with all blocking
    > >> plates etc for good airflow and the cooling fans to work" that sounds
    > >> like it is straight from the A+ hardware study section of a book and
    > >> not from real world experience.
    > >>
    > >> Patty is correct in agreeing with me. In the real world, removing the
    > >> covers will bring a computer's temperature down fairly fast.
    > >>
    > >> Please note, that if you remove the side cover and the temperature
    > >> drops, thus causing the computer to work properly, there may be in
    > >> issue with proper air flow inside the case when the cover is on, such
    > >> as cables and cards restricting air flow. Ah ha... logical thinking
    > >> will always win!
    , Sep 1, 2006
    #8
  9. Fred the Ferret

    Patty Guest

    On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:43:54 -0400, Mister wrote:

    > On 31 Aug 2006 16:05:42 -0000, Fred the Ferret <>
    > wrote:
    >


    > Hi Fred the Ferret,
    >
    > Mister said:
    > "Take the side of the case off for a day or two and see if the problem
    > continues, if it does it is a heat issue."
    >
    > Sorry I missed "n't" on the word "does", meaning "doesn't"
    >
    > Correction:
    > Take the side of the case off for a day or two and see if the problem
    > continues, if it doesn't it is a heat issue.
    >
    > As far as "system case needs to be in place along with all blocking
    > plates etc for good airflow and the cooling fans to work" that sounds
    > like it is straight from the A+ hardware study section of a book and
    > not from real world experience.
    >
    > Patty is correct in agreeing with me. In the real world, removing the
    > covers will bring a computer's temperature down fairly fast.
    >
    > Please note, that if you remove the side cover and the temperature
    > drops, thus causing the computer to work properly, there may be in
    > issue with proper air flow inside the case when the cover is on, such
    > as cables and cards restricting air flow. Ah ha... logical thinking
    > will always win!


    I believe Mister is correct. The necessity of fans and good airflow has to
    do with the system being in a small closed box. If there is improper
    airflow, the heat will build up within the case to a dangerous level. The
    A+ people tell you that leaving a slot cover off the case will cause the
    system to overheat because it will affect the airflow and this is probably
    true. In a closed up case. In a closed box, the heat will build up
    because it has nowhere to go and you need good airflow to dissipate it.
    If, however, the system is not in a small, completely enclosed box, the
    heat will have nowhere to build up and will dissipate on its own into the
    room.

    So, Fred, if you're in the process of building a new system, tell me that
    each time you add a new component you hurry up and put the side and front
    back on your case before you test to see if it works. Heck, I've had
    motherboards and CPUs running on a table testing them outside of a case
    without any heat problems with the CPU. In fact, I once saw a system that
    was built just in a frame with no sides at all. System ran fine with no
    heat problems.

    Patty
    Patty, Sep 1, 2006
    #9
  10. Fred the Ferret

    Guest

    I'd have to agree, having an A+ ceritification doesn't mean that you
    know everything about problems because i've taken the class in
    highschool and computers are a hobby for me. Having an A+ Cerification
    just means you have the ability to learn and understand what problems
    are and howto solve them. Not every problem has a clear cut solution,
    in this example for instance, it started out as a graphics issue, but
    then wen't to the reboots later on. With the thinking we've been doing
    here, we wouldn't have thought that the RAM would have been the problem
    for a graphics problem like this lol. It wasn't till the instant
    reboots started that we started suspecting RAM. Air flow is an
    important factor because if the CPU overheats or the GPU, it would have
    caused the same symptoms, but if it was the CPU, the computer would
    have frozen on reboot and make the beeping noises because of
    overheating (had experience with that cause my CPU fan went out w/o me
    knowing it lol).

    Just a little update also, i left my computer on overnight and woke up
    this morning to where i left it the night before. So i'll be sending
    an RMA to kingston since they have a lifetime warranty =)

    Thanks,
    Roger

    Fred the Ferret wrote:
    > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 23:01:52 -0400
    > Patty <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > > I believe Mister is correct.

    >
    > In Message-ID: <>
    > Fred the Ferret wrote:
    >
    > >It could even be a memory problem, so the advice:

    >
    > >> If that does not do anything, replace the power supply.

    >
    > >is perhaps a bit simplistic.

    >
    >
    > Yah-boo!
    >
    >
    > I hear what everyone is saying, and the missing ' n't ' from Mister's post did
    > have me puzzled. I was really wanting to make the point that just removing the
    > sides might lead to misdiagnoses, and I don't think I was wrong in this 'case'
    > (pun intended). I don't doubt that some have you have much more system-building
    > experience than me. But I have had experience of dodgy RAM, so the above was
    > no 'shot in the dark' or something I read in an A+ book.
    , Sep 1, 2006
    #10
  11. Fred the Ferret

    Glenn Guest

    Just a thought..... Kingston memory doesn't work or play well with
    other brands. If it's all Kingston it works fine. Put in one chip of
    another brand and all bets are off.

    wrote:

    > I'd have to agree, having an A+ ceritification doesn't mean that you
    > know everything about problems because i've taken the class in
    > highschool and computers are a hobby for me. Having an A+ Cerification
    > just means you have the ability to learn and understand what problems
    > are and howto solve them. Not every problem has a clear cut solution,
    > in this example for instance, it started out as a graphics issue, but
    > then wen't to the reboots later on. With the thinking we've been doing
    > here, we wouldn't have thought that the RAM would have been the problem
    > for a graphics problem like this lol. It wasn't till the instant
    > reboots started that we started suspecting RAM. Air flow is an
    > important factor because if the CPU overheats or the GPU, it would have
    > caused the same symptoms, but if it was the CPU, the computer would
    > have frozen on reboot and make the beeping noises because of
    > overheating (had experience with that cause my CPU fan went out w/o me
    > knowing it lol).
    >
    > Just a little update also, i left my computer on overnight and woke up
    > this morning to where i left it the night before. So i'll be sending
    > an RMA to kingston since they have a lifetime warranty =)
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Roger
    >
    > Fred the Ferret wrote:
    >
    >>On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 23:01:52 -0400
    >>Patty <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>I believe Mister is correct.

    >>
    >>In Message-ID: <>
    >>Fred the Ferret wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>It could even be a memory problem, so the advice:

    >>
    >>>>If that does not do anything, replace the power supply.

    >>
    >>>is perhaps a bit simplistic.

    >>
    >>
    >>Yah-boo!
    >>
    >>
    >>I hear what everyone is saying, and the missing ' n't ' from Mister's post did
    >>have me puzzled. I was really wanting to make the point that just removing the
    >>sides might lead to misdiagnoses, and I don't think I was wrong in this 'case'
    >>(pun intended). I don't doubt that some have you have much more system-building
    >>experience than me. But I have had experience of dodgy RAM, so the above was
    >>no 'shot in the dark' or something I read in an A+ book.

    >
    >
    Glenn, Sep 1, 2006
    #11
  12. Fred the Ferret

    Patty Guest

    On 1 Sep 2006 11:20:38 -0000, Fred the Ferret wrote:

    > I hear what everyone is saying, and the missing ' n't ' from Mister's post did
    > have me puzzled. I was really wanting to make the point that just removing the
    > sides might lead to misdiagnoses, and I don't think I was wrong in this 'case'
    > (pun intended). I don't doubt that some have you have much more system-building
    > experience than me. But I have had experience of dodgy RAM, so the above was
    > no 'shot in the dark' or something I read in an A+ book.


    It's true you have to look at a lot off issues. When the OP reported that
    his computer case read 85 deg. F, I pretty much ruled out heat, unless the
    CPU fan was not running properly and you couldn't determine that easily
    without opening up the case and watching the fan run, no? So, even if you
    suspect a possible heat problem, you have to look at the facts that you are
    given. Now, if he had a gauge that reported a high heat, he could have
    verified it by removing the side and seeing if that made a difference.
    IMO, he also had a situation with the front and back fans blowing in and
    the side fan blowing out. I believe that would not give the best airflow
    in a case. IMO the front should blow in, the side should blow in and the
    back (where all the heat is from the CPU and possibly video card) should
    blow out. Removing the side on the case could indicate a possible airflow
    problem.

    However, since it was a bad stick of RAM, it should have continued
    persisting the odd behavior even with the side of the case off, thus ruling
    out the heat issue completely. Same with a bad power supply.

    I do not rule out removing the case side as a diagnostic procedure.

    Patty
    Patty, Sep 1, 2006
    #12
  13. Fred the Ferret

    Guest

    All 3 chips are Kingston VALUERam 256mb PC3200 ;) Like i said, this is
    a recent issue, the computer has worked fine for the previous 2 years
    i've had it lol. If it was a conflict in RAM it would have been
    apparent when i built it :)

    Thanks,
    Roger

    Glenn wrote:
    > Just a thought..... Kingston memory doesn't work or play well with
    > other brands. If it's all Kingston it works fine. Put in one chip of
    > another brand and all bets are off.
    >
    > wrote:
    >
    > > I'd have to agree, having an A+ ceritification doesn't mean that you
    > > know everything about problems because i've taken the class in
    > > highschool and computers are a hobby for me. Having an A+ Cerification
    > > just means you have the ability to learn and understand what problems
    > > are and howto solve them. Not every problem has a clear cut solution,
    > > in this example for instance, it started out as a graphics issue, but
    > > then wen't to the reboots later on. With the thinking we've been doing
    > > here, we wouldn't have thought that the RAM would have been the problem
    > > for a graphics problem like this lol. It wasn't till the instant
    > > reboots started that we started suspecting RAM. Air flow is an
    > > important factor because if the CPU overheats or the GPU, it would have
    > > caused the same symptoms, but if it was the CPU, the computer would
    > > have frozen on reboot and make the beeping noises because of
    > > overheating (had experience with that cause my CPU fan went out w/o me
    > > knowing it lol).
    > >
    > > Just a little update also, i left my computer on overnight and woke up
    > > this morning to where i left it the night before. So i'll be sending
    > > an RMA to kingston since they have a lifetime warranty =)
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > > Roger
    > >
    > > Fred the Ferret wrote:
    > >
    > >>On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 23:01:52 -0400
    > >>Patty <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>I believe Mister is correct.
    > >>
    > >>In Message-ID: <>
    > >>Fred the Ferret wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>It could even be a memory problem, so the advice:
    > >>
    > >>>>If that does not do anything, replace the power supply.
    > >>
    > >>>is perhaps a bit simplistic.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>Yah-boo!
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>I hear what everyone is saying, and the missing ' n't ' from Mister's post did
    > >>have me puzzled. I was really wanting to make the point that just removing the
    > >>sides might lead to misdiagnoses, and I don't think I was wrong in this 'case'
    > >>(pun intended). I don't doubt that some have you have much more system-building
    > >>experience than me. But I have had experience of dodgy RAM, so the above was
    > >>no 'shot in the dark' or something I read in an A+ book.

    > >
    > >
    , Sep 1, 2006
    #13
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