Re: Strange problem with low energy light bulb

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by JANA, Jun 26, 2007.

  1. JANA

    JANA Guest

    If the switch that is series with the light bulb has a night light in it,
    the current pass of the night light will cause the CFL to flicker.

    If the CFL is connected to a switch that is electronic, the small leakage of
    the electronics will cause the CFL to flicker or in some cases to not turn
    off.

    Regular CFL's cannot be used on standard light dimmers and many of the
    electronic timers. This is a big inconvenience for many people.

    When regular lamps become unavailable, I can see a lot of problems with
    these new types of lamps. The biggest one will be the pollution from their
    disposal. They use mercury, phosphors, and many types of materials that are
    very harmful for the environment. There is also the electronics circuit
    board, which contain components that have the same recycling problem as used
    in most electronics. Even though they last longer, when they are eventually
    put out in to the garbage, they will eventually end up in the land fills.
    They are going to be a very big problem compared to the simple light bulb
    that was made of simple glass and metals.

    Regular light bulb materials are about 85% recyclable. There are almost no
    materials in these that are bad for the environment. Most CFL's materials
    are not recyclable, and their materials are very polluting.

    It looks very strong that the government is pushing the CFL's to save some
    electricity to sell to large industry. This is the only answer that is
    logical. There are NO green house gasses from using regular light bulbs.
    When more electricity is sold to industry, the pollution problems from its
    generation will actually increase, unless the generation is from water
    power, or nuclear power.

    --

    JANA
    _____


    "Seán O'Leathlóbhair" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    I am not sure if this is an appropriate group for this question. If
    not, please suggest a better one.

    I have a light in the house which I have wanted to switch to a low
    energy bulb for a long time. The hold up was that I needed a very
    small bulb. At last, I have found a small enough bulb but something
    odd occurred as soon as I put it in.

    When it is switched on, it works as expected.

    When it is switched off, it blinks every few seconds. So, I guess
    that there must be a problem with the switch If it is passing nothing
    then it would seem impossible for the bulb to do anything. I did not
    notice any problem with the previous incandescent bulb but I guess
    that if the switch is leaking a tiny amount, the filament would glow
    too little to be seen.

    I have a few questions:

    What is going on? Is a tiny current leaking, building up a charge in
    a capacitor somewhere until a sufficient voltage builds up to spark in
    the bulb and discharge the capacitor, and then the cycle repeats.

    Is it safe?

    Will it wear out the bulb very fast?

    Is it likely to be enough to replace the switch? (Actually three
    switches can turn this bulb on and off).

    Might I have to replace the wiring? (Much harder than just replacing
    the switches)

    --
    Seán Ó Leathlóbhair
    JANA, Jun 26, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. JANA

    Blash Guest

    JANA wrote on 6/26/07 7:50 AM:

    > If the switch that is series with the light bulb has a night light in it,
    > the current pass of the night light will cause the CFL to flicker.

    <<SNIP>>

    Couldn't you think of any more newsgroups to cross-post to???
    24hoursupport.helpdesk,
    aus.electronics,
    misc.invest.stocks,
    rec.audio.tech,
    sci.electronics.basics,
    sci.electronics.components,
    sci.electronics.repair,
    sci.engr.television.advanced
    Blash, Jun 26, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. JANA

    Arfa Daily Guest

    "JANA" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > If the switch that is series with the light bulb has a night light in it,
    > the current pass of the night light will cause the CFL to flicker.
    >
    > If the CFL is connected to a switch that is electronic, the small leakage
    > of
    > the electronics will cause the CFL to flicker or in some cases to not turn
    > off.
    >
    > Regular CFL's cannot be used on standard light dimmers and many of the
    > electronic timers. This is a big inconvenience for many people.
    >
    > When regular lamps become unavailable, I can see a lot of problems with
    > these new types of lamps. The biggest one will be the pollution from
    > their
    > disposal. They use mercury, phosphors, and many types of materials that
    > are
    > very harmful for the environment. There is also the electronics circuit
    > board, which contain components that have the same recycling problem as
    > used
    > in most electronics. Even though they last longer, when they are
    > eventually
    > put out in to the garbage, they will eventually end up in the land fills.
    > They are going to be a very big problem compared to the simple light bulb
    > that was made of simple glass and metals.
    >
    > Regular light bulb materials are about 85% recyclable. There are almost no
    > materials in these that are bad for the environment. Most CFL's materials
    > are not recyclable, and their materials are very polluting.
    >
    > It looks very strong that the government is pushing the CFL's to save some
    > electricity to sell to large industry. This is the only answer that is
    > logical. There are NO green house gasses from using regular light bulbs.
    > When more electricity is sold to industry, the pollution problems from its
    > generation will actually increase, unless the generation is from water
    > power, or nuclear power.
    >
    > --
    >
    > JANA
    > _____
    >
    >


    These are my (well known) views also, but I fear we are squeaking like
    little lost mice in the dark ...

    The general public are not told - and would not understand anyway - the
    wider implications of these knee-jerk government interventions in our lives.
    All too often, they are poorly thought through, and are dreamed up as a
    response to the latest bit of pseudo science to hit the news stands. At the
    moment, anything with the words 'green' or 'eco' or 'environment' or 'global
    warming' are fair game for this sort of nonsense, and to add to its
    'validity' in the public's eyes, they've already started inventing new bits
    of techno-babble like 'carbon footprint' and 'carbon offsetting' to justify
    what amounts to little more than opinions by a vociferous band of scientists
    getting paid large amounts of money and credibility ratings, to promote the
    government line. As you say, these CFLs are just trading one form of alleged
    pollution, for another definite one ...

    Arfa

    Arfa
    Arfa Daily, Jun 26, 2007
    #3
  4. JANA

    JANA Guest

    I just found out something this morning with the policies of these CFL
    lamps. The governments are going to put in place programs for the handling
    and disposal of the warn out and damaged CFL's. It seems that they have no
    idea at this time of what this plan will be. One speculation is that they
    will be sending them off to a third world country to be disposed of.

    Apparently, it has been figured out that the cost of the plan is going to be
    far greater than if they left things alone! And, they will be adding a worse
    and different type of pollution problem to deal with.

    This plan is being enforced in all of North America, and most of the
    Commonwealth countries around the world. From what I heard, they want the
    general public and businesses to use less electricity, so that more can be
    sold to large industries for manufacturing. They will also be able to raise
    the price per kw/hr without the public noticing it, because they will be
    using a little less.

    Another issue that gets to me is the one with the new hybrid cars, and
    ethanol. This is a long issue, but I will make a short comment.

    After about 4 to 6 years with an average use of about 16,000 to 20,000 km
    per year, the batteries in the hybrid cars will have to be changed. There is
    going to be a huge disposal problem with these. The chemicals used in
    battery technology is some of the worse kinds for the environment.

    As for the consumer, if he wants to keep his car, the battery replacement
    cost is going to be in the average range of $6000 US. If he trades his car
    with the used batteries, this cost will be deducted from the trade-in value.
    If you calculate the usage cost of fuel for the average person, this
    approach does not pay!

    When making ethanol fuel from corn, the energy used, is more than what can
    be had from the ethanol. The pollution caused from burning ethanol is worse
    than from petrol. The chemicals released from the burned ethanol are
    dangerous for people with respiratory problems. These chemicals are also
    harmful to plant life.


    --

    JANA
    _____


    "Arfa Daily" <> wrote in message
    news:kl8gi.207$...

    "JANA" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > If the switch that is series with the light bulb has a night light in it,
    > the current pass of the night light will cause the CFL to flicker.
    >
    > If the CFL is connected to a switch that is electronic, the small leakage
    > of
    > the electronics will cause the CFL to flicker or in some cases to not turn
    > off.
    >
    > Regular CFL's cannot be used on standard light dimmers and many of the
    > electronic timers. This is a big inconvenience for many people.
    >
    > When regular lamps become unavailable, I can see a lot of problems with
    > these new types of lamps. The biggest one will be the pollution from
    > their
    > disposal. They use mercury, phosphors, and many types of materials that
    > are
    > very harmful for the environment. There is also the electronics circuit
    > board, which contain components that have the same recycling problem as
    > used
    > in most electronics. Even though they last longer, when they are
    > eventually
    > put out in to the garbage, they will eventually end up in the land fills.
    > They are going to be a very big problem compared to the simple light bulb
    > that was made of simple glass and metals.
    >
    > Regular light bulb materials are about 85% recyclable. There are almost no
    > materials in these that are bad for the environment. Most CFL's materials
    > are not recyclable, and their materials are very polluting.
    >
    > It looks very strong that the government is pushing the CFL's to save some
    > electricity to sell to large industry. This is the only answer that is
    > logical. There are NO green house gasses from using regular light bulbs.
    > When more electricity is sold to industry, the pollution problems from its
    > generation will actually increase, unless the generation is from water
    > power, or nuclear power.
    >
    > --
    >
    > JANA
    > _____
    >
    >


    These are my (well known) views also, but I fear we are squeaking like
    little lost mice in the dark ...

    The general public are not told - and would not understand anyway - the
    wider implications of these knee-jerk government interventions in our lives.
    All too often, they are poorly thought through, and are dreamed up as a
    response to the latest bit of pseudo science to hit the news stands. At the
    moment, anything with the words 'green' or 'eco' or 'environment' or 'global
    warming' are fair game for this sort of nonsense, and to add to its
    'validity' in the public's eyes, they've already started inventing new bits
    of techno-babble like 'carbon footprint' and 'carbon offsetting' to justify
    what amounts to little more than opinions by a vociferous band of scientists
    getting paid large amounts of money and credibility ratings, to promote the
    government line. As you say, these CFLs are just trading one form of alleged
    pollution, for another definite one ...

    Arfa

    Arfa
    JANA, Jun 28, 2007
    #4
  5. JANA

    JANA Guest

    I had a reason to cross post. The question was in many other groups, and
    there is a serious problem with the new regulations concerning the CFL's.

    This was a small item, and there was no harm done. I had many positive
    responses in my favour from this post. I guess you are in favour of the
    pollution problems that these CFL's will be causing.

    Just click on the "Next" button if you feel annoyed!

    --

    JANA
    _____


    "Blash" <> wrote in message
    news:C2A68061.6E5E7%...
    JANA wrote on 6/26/07 7:50 AM:

    > If the switch that is series with the light bulb has a night light in it,
    > the current pass of the night light will cause the CFL to flicker.

    <<SNIP>>

    Couldn't you think of any more newsgroups to cross-post to???
    24hoursupport.helpdesk,
    aus.electronics,
    misc.invest.stocks,
    rec.audio.tech,
    sci.electronics.basics,
    sci.electronics.components,
    sci.electronics.repair,
    sci.engr.television.advanced
    JANA, Jun 28, 2007
    #5
  6. JANA

    Eeyore Guest

    JANA wrote:

    > I just found out something this morning with the policies of these CFL
    > lamps. The governments are going to put in place programs for the handling
    > and disposal of the warn out and damaged CFL's. It seems that they have no
    > idea at this time of what this plan will be.


    In Europe it's called WEEE but it's fucked up.

    > One speculation is that they will be sending them off to a third world country
    > to be disposed of.


    You're an idiot.

    Graham
    Eeyore, Jun 28, 2007
    #6
  7. JANA

    Eeyore Guest

    JANA wrote:

    > As for the consumer, if he wants to keep his car, the battery replacement
    > cost is going to be in the average range of $6000 US. If he trades his car
    > with the used batteries, this cost will be deducted from the trade-in value.


    The simple and obvious way to deal with this is by leasing the battery, not
    owning it.

    Graham
    Eeyore, Jun 28, 2007
    #7
  8. JANA

    Eeyore Guest

    JANA wrote:

    > When making ethanol fuel from corn, the energy used, is more than what can
    > be had from the ethanol.


    You're full of crap aren't you ?


    > The pollution caused from burning ethanol is worse
    > than from petrol.


    Utter nonsense.

    Graham
    Eeyore, Jun 28, 2007
    #8
  9. JANA

    Eeyore Guest

    JANA wrote:

    > I had a reason to cross post. The question was in many other groups, and
    > there is a serious problem with the new regulations concerning the CFL's.


    There are no regulations yet.

    Graham
    Eeyore, Jun 28, 2007
    #9
  10. JANA

    Mr.T Guest

    "JANA" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The pollution caused from burning ethanol is worse
    > than from petrol.


    Do you have a reference for this?

    >The chemicals released from the burned ethanol are
    > dangerous for people with respiratory problems.


    So is petrol, diesel is worse still.

    MrT.
    Mr.T, Jun 28, 2007
    #10
  11. JANA

    Mr.T Guest

    "Eeyore" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > > As for the consumer, if he wants to keep his car, the battery

    replacement
    > > cost is going to be in the average range of $6000 US. If he trades his

    car
    > > with the used batteries, this cost will be deducted from the trade-in

    value.
    >
    > The simple and obvious way to deal with this is by leasing the battery,

    not
    > owning it.


    Sure, but then the lease cost will be even greater to cover the extra
    expenses and profits of the lease company.

    MrT.
    Mr.T, Jun 28, 2007
    #11
  12. JANA

    Don Pearce Guest

    On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 23:31:27 -0400, "JANA" <>
    wrote:

    >When making ethanol fuel from corn, the energy used, is more than what can
    >be had from the ethanol. The pollution caused from burning ethanol is worse
    >than from petrol. The chemicals released from the burned ethanol are
    >dangerous for people with respiratory problems. These chemicals are also
    >harmful to plant life.


    Ethanol combustion goes as follows:

    C2H5OH + 3O2 -> 2CO2 + 3H2O

    Problem?

    d
    --
    Pearce Consulting
    http://www.pearce.uk.com
    Don Pearce, Jun 28, 2007
    #12
  13. JANA

    Eeyore Guest

    "Mr.T" wrote:

    > "Eeyore" <> wrote in message
    >
    > > > As for the consumer, if he wants to keep his car, the battery
    > > > replacement cost is going to be in the average range of $6000 US. If he

    > trades his
    > > > car with the used batteries, this cost will be deducted from the trade-in
    > > > value.

    > >
    > > The simple and obvious way to deal with this is by leasing the battery,
    > > not owning it.

    >
    > Sure, but then the lease cost will be even greater to cover the extra
    > expenses and profits of the lease company.


    It's the only way I can see to cushion and average the associated costs.

    Graham
    Eeyore, Jun 28, 2007
    #13
  14. JANA

    Guest

    (Don Pearce) wrote:

    >On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 23:31:27 -0400, "JANA" <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>When making ethanol fuel from corn, the energy used, is more than what can
    >>be had from the ethanol. The pollution caused from burning ethanol is worse
    >>than from petrol. The chemicals released from the burned ethanol are
    >>dangerous for people with respiratory problems. These chemicals are also
    >>harmful to plant life.


    >Ethanol combustion goes as follows:


    >C2H5OH + 3O2 -> 2CO2 + 3H2O


    >Problem?


    So it gives off Dihydrogen Monoxide...
    " is a constituent of many known toxic substances, diseases and
    disease-causing agents, environmental hazards and can even be lethal
    to humans in quantities as small as a thimbleful."
    http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html


    --

    http://tinyurl.com/gjpsj
    , Jun 28, 2007
    #14
  15. JANA

    Don Pearce Guest

    On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:37:39 -0700, wrote:

    > (Don Pearce) wrote:
    >
    >>On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 23:31:27 -0400, "JANA" <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>When making ethanol fuel from corn, the energy used, is more than what can
    >>>be had from the ethanol. The pollution caused from burning ethanol is worse
    >>>than from petrol. The chemicals released from the burned ethanol are
    >>>dangerous for people with respiratory problems. These chemicals are also
    >>>harmful to plant life.

    >
    >>Ethanol combustion goes as follows:

    >
    >>C2H5OH + 3O2 -> 2CO2 + 3H2O

    >
    >>Problem?

    >
    >So it gives off Dihydrogen Monoxide...
    >" is a constituent of many known toxic substances, diseases and
    >disease-causing agents, environmental hazards and can even be lethal
    >to humans in quantities as small as a thimbleful."
    >http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html


    Bastard! Never knew it was so nasty...

    d

    --
    Pearce Consulting
    http://www.pearce.uk.com
    Don Pearce, Jun 28, 2007
    #15
  16. JANA

    JANA Guest

    Before you call someone an idiot, you should do some research. You are
    looking like the fool, not me.

    --

    JANA
    _____


    "Eeyore" <> wrote in message
    news:...


    JANA wrote:

    > I just found out something this morning with the policies of these CFL
    > lamps. The governments are going to put in place programs for the handling
    > and disposal of the warn out and damaged CFL's. It seems that they have
    > no
    > idea at this time of what this plan will be.


    In Europe it's called WEEE but it's fucked up.

    > One speculation is that they will be sending them off to a third world
    > country
    > to be disposed of.


    You're an idiot.

    Graham
    JANA, Jul 15, 2007
    #16
  17. JANA

    JANA Guest

    I would recommend you do some thinking before typing (talking).

    If you lease the batteries, in the end someone has to pay for them, and it
    will not be owner. In any case, the owner has to make his money back, plus a
    profit. When the batteries are no longer useful, the owner is going to have
    to dispose of the batteries somewhere!!!

    --

    JANA
    _____


    "Eeyore" <> wrote in message
    news:...


    JANA wrote:

    > As for the consumer, if he wants to keep his car, the battery replacement
    > cost is going to be in the average range of $6000 US. If he trades his
    > car
    > with the used batteries, this cost will be deducted from the trade-in
    > value.


    The simple and obvious way to deal with this is by leasing the battery, not
    owning it.

    Graham
    JANA, Jul 15, 2007
    #17
  18. JANA

    JANA Guest

    There have been publications about the energy usage to make ethanol. You
    should research this out before making comments!

    --

    JANA
    _____


    "Eeyore" <> wrote in message
    news:...


    JANA wrote:

    > When making ethanol fuel from corn, the energy used, is more than what can
    > be had from the ethanol.


    You're full of crap aren't you ?


    > The pollution caused from burning ethanol is worse
    > than from petrol.


    Utter nonsense.

    Graham
    JANA, Jul 15, 2007
    #18
  19. JANA

    JANA Guest

    Re: Strange problem with low energy light bulb / Ethanol Efficiency!

    Before you make a comment, you should research things out!


    These are independent and proven reports about the environmental problems
    with ethanol. The companies that are making the ethanol are like cigarette
    companies. They are saying the opposite! But, it has been proven in the
    past, that breathing the fumes from burning alcohol can induce asthma, and
    other health complications. It is also believed by many health researchers
    that the fumes from ethanol can cause cancer.

    http://www.foodfirst.org/node/1713

    http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2007/april18/ethanol-041807.html

    http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/esthag/2007/41/i11/abs/es062085v.html



    It takes more energy and causes more pollution to make ethanol, than what it
    can deliver back as energy! Not only does the conversion process use more
    energy, but there is a lot of energy used to grow, produce, harvest,
    process, and transport, the corn to make the ethanol in the first place.

    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/27/MNG1VDF6EM1.DTL

    http://www.igreens.org.uk/ethanol_from_corn_.htm



    The ethanol producers, and the corn growers are all for this industry for
    obvious reasons. In the mean time, the public, will pay in the end.

    Between petrol and diesel, the diesel is actually cleaner burning even
    though it may have an odour to it. The odour is caused because the diesel is
    more pure oil and produces more carbon. Carbon will settle back to the
    ground, and over time it will recycle itself. The fumes from petrol are more
    dangerous than diesel. But, ethanol fumes are the most dangerous.

    --

    JANA
    _____


    "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
    news:46836d16$0$1462$...

    "JANA" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The pollution caused from burning ethanol is worse
    > than from petrol.


    Do you have a reference for this?

    >The chemicals released from the burned ethanol are
    > dangerous for people with respiratory problems.


    So is petrol, diesel is worse still.

    MrT.
    JANA, Jul 15, 2007
    #19
  20. JANA

    Mr.T Guest

    Re: Ethanol Efficiency!

    "JANA" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Before you make a comment, you should research things out!


    And maybe you should read that I simply asked for a reference and stated
    that diesel and petrol also cause health problems.
    So as usual everything is a health risk, debate can only seriously be made
    on the relative levels of the risk/problems. That first requires more
    accurate research to be done which is not funded by vested interests. A
    major problem in most cases.

    MrT.
    Mr.T, Jul 15, 2007
    #20
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