Re: storage problem

Discussion in 'A+ Certification' started by SilverSurfer, Jun 7, 2005.

  1. SilverSurfer

    SilverSurfer Guest

    I have read through the posts concerning this problem. Did anything change
    prior to the development of the problem, e.g. downloaded new drivers,
    service packs, etc.

    Logically, you would think that something must have caused this aberrant
    behavior that apparrently occurred overnight.

    SilverSurfer


    "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    news:T0Qne.16494$...
    >
    > I'm having a strange problem with my system involving the disk drive
    > (although I'm pretty sure it's not hardware, but software).
    >
    > The system (a laptop) is dual boot and has 4 partitions:
    >
    > C: Windows 98 FAT32 (10 gigs)(Primary)
    >
    > Extended DOS partition containing:
    > D: Windows XP Pro FAT32 (11 gigs)
    > E: Data Fat32 (24 gigs)
    > F: Data NTFS (10 gigs)
    >
    > The system is 3 years old and has been working fine until tonight. The
    > problem is that if I boot Windows 98, the 3 FAT32 partitions in the
    > Extended DOS partition appear very badly corrupted. In fact, Norton Disk
    > Doctor reports that the entire chain of logical drives in the extended
    > partition is corrupted, and in Windows itself, it's clear that something
    > is wrong, badly, seriously wrong (filenames are totally corrupt with
    > invalid characters).
    >
    > However, if I boot XP, both XP and any diagnostic programs that I run all
    > report everything to be fine, and indeed everything I do (including actual
    > file access) under XP looks fine.
    >
    > It's really odd, because the very same programs (Norton Disk Doctor,
    > installed separately in both OS') give totally different results depending
    > on which OS you are running them under.
    >
    > Again, this problem has developed (or I've just become aware of it)
    > tonight, the system is 3 years old.
    >
    > Anyone have any idea what could be going on here that things seem so wrong
    > under 98SE but fine under XP?
    >
     
    SilverSurfer, Jun 7, 2005
    #1
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  2. SilverSurfer

    rainman Guest

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    Barry Watzman wrote:
    > The problem is that Windows 98 is used very infrequently, sometimes not
    > for months, and so I really don't know when the problem occured. In
    > fact, the laptop is only used a couple of hours per month.
    >

    [snip]

    Can you cite some of the file name issues? Did you accidentally disable
    long filenames in Win 98?

    Rainman


    > SilverSurfer wrote:
    >
    >> I have read through the posts concerning this problem. Did anything
    >> change prior to the development of the problem, e.g. downloaded new
    >> drivers, service packs, etc.
    >>
    >> Logically, you would think that something must have caused this
    >> aberrant behavior that apparrently occurred overnight.
    >>
    >> SilverSurfer
    >>
    >>
    >> "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    >> news:T0Qne.16494$...
    >>
    >>> I'm having a strange problem with my system involving the disk drive
    >>> (although I'm pretty sure it's not hardware, but software).
    >>>
    >>> The system (a laptop) is dual boot and has 4 partitions:
    >>>
    >>> C: Windows 98 FAT32 (10 gigs)(Primary)
    >>>
    >>> Extended DOS partition containing:
    >>> D: Windows XP Pro FAT32 (11 gigs)
    >>> E: Data Fat32 (24 gigs)
    >>> F: Data NTFS (10 gigs)
    >>>
    >>> The system is 3 years old and has been working fine until tonight.
    >>> The problem is that if I boot Windows 98, the 3 FAT32 partitions in
    >>> the Extended DOS partition appear very badly corrupted. In fact,
    >>> Norton Disk Doctor reports that the entire chain of logical drives in
    >>> the extended partition is corrupted, and in Windows itself, it's
    >>> clear that something is wrong, badly, seriously wrong (filenames are
    >>> totally corrupt with invalid characters).
    >>>
    >>> However, if I boot XP, both XP and any diagnostic programs that I run
    >>> all report everything to be fine, and indeed everything I do
    >>> (including actual file access) under XP looks fine.
    >>>
    >>> It's really odd, because the very same programs (Norton Disk Doctor,
    >>> installed separately in both OS') give totally different results
    >>> depending on which OS you are running them under.
    >>>
    >>> Again, this problem has developed (or I've just become aware of it)
    >>> tonight, the system is 3 years old.
    >>>
    >>> Anyone have any idea what could be going on here that things seem so
    >>> wrong under 98SE but fine under XP?
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >>


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    rainman, Jun 7, 2005
    #2
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  3. SilverSurfer

    rainman Guest

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    Barry Watzman wrote:
    > The E:\My Documents\Winword folder has over 400 entries in it (about 25
    > folders and over 300 files), all seen and perfectly accessible under
    > Windows XP.
    >
    > Under Windows 98 (which had been seeing this folder correctly for
    > years), there are now exactly two entries, both shown as folders, both
    > consisting of unprintable characters (mostly vertical bars) for their
    > file names.


    Did you try to compress the folders or use any type of encryption
    software while in XP? Or did you use "make this folder private" in XP?
    I'm not sure if these options will work on a FAT32 drive, but it's
    something to check... especially if you have any third-party software
    that will do this. Also, run a complete virus scan, with an updated
    version of anti-virus software, preferably run from a bootable disc
    (like a CD) if you have one.

    > The situation is similar for many other folders on drives D:, E: and F:
    > (the logical drives within the extended partition). Windows 98 itself
    > is on C:, which is fine. XP is on D:, one of the folders that 98 sees
    > as "screwed up". But XP itself works fine and sees no errors in any of
    > D:, E: or F: and, indeed, can access all of the files and folders just
    > fine.
    >
    > [No, long filenames are not disable in 98, in fact I am not aware that
    > they can be disabled.]


    They can be by using a command line utility, but I forget the name of
    it... LNFS or something like that, but this is unlikely anyway, as XP
    would probably show similar errors.

    > Running Norton Disk Doctor (2003 version, run in a "read only" mode --
    > diagnose, but don't fix) from XP it says that everything is fine.
    > Running the exact same program from 98 it says that the extended DOS
    > partition is corrupt. In other words, it's "seeing" exactly what the
    > operating system that it's running under is seeing.


    You could also try running the fixmbr and fixboot commands from the
    recovery console (boot off the XP Pro CD) in XP.

    Rainman

    > rainman wrote:
    >
    > Barry Watzman wrote:
    >
    >>>> The problem is that Windows 98 is used very infrequently, sometimes not
    >>>> for months, and so I really don't know when the problem occured. In
    >>>> fact, the laptop is only used a couple of hours per month.
    >>>>

    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > Can you cite some of the file name issues? Did you accidentally disable
    > long filenames in Win 98?
    >
    > Rainman
    >
    >
    >
    >>>> SilverSurfer wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> I have read through the posts concerning this problem. Did anything
    >>>>> change prior to the development of the problem, e.g. downloaded new
    >>>>> drivers, service packs, etc.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Logically, you would think that something must have caused this
    >>>>> aberrant behavior that apparrently occurred overnight.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> SilverSurfer
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:T0Qne.16494$...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I'm having a strange problem with my system involving the disk drive
    >>>>>> (although I'm pretty sure it's not hardware, but software).
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The system (a laptop) is dual boot and has 4 partitions:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> C: Windows 98 FAT32 (10 gigs)(Primary)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Extended DOS partition containing:
    >>>>>> D: Windows XP Pro FAT32 (11 gigs)
    >>>>>> E: Data Fat32 (24 gigs)
    >>>>>> F: Data NTFS (10 gigs)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The system is 3 years old and has been working fine until tonight.
    >>>>>> The problem is that if I boot Windows 98, the 3 FAT32 partitions in
    >>>>>> the Extended DOS partition appear very badly corrupted. In fact,
    >>>>>> Norton Disk Doctor reports that the entire chain of logical drives in
    >>>>>> the extended partition is corrupted, and in Windows itself, it's
    >>>>>> clear that something is wrong, badly, seriously wrong (filenames are
    >>>>>> totally corrupt with invalid characters).
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> However, if I boot XP, both XP and any diagnostic programs that I run
    >>>>>> all report everything to be fine, and indeed everything I do
    >>>>>> (including actual file access) under XP looks fine.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> It's really odd, because the very same programs (Norton Disk Doctor,
    >>>>>> installed separately in both OS') give totally different results
    >>>>>> depending on which OS you are running them under.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Again, this problem has developed (or I've just become aware of it)
    >>>>>> tonight, the system is 3 years old.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Anyone have any idea what could be going on here that things seem so
    >>>>>> wrong under 98SE but fine under XP?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>

    >

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    rainman, Jun 8, 2005
    #3
  4. SilverSurfer

    SilverSurfer Guest

    Since booting into XP seems fine and all data on the extended DOS partitions
    are readily accessible within XP, the culprit must lie somewhere within the
    primary FAT32 partition. I don't recall if you could access anything on C:
    from within XP but I assume that is OK.

    Also, since booting into Win98 seems to work OK, I assume that accessing
    anything on C: from within Win98 is also OK.

    Please note that I am by no means an expert but it would appear that
    something that controls access of the extended DOS partitions from within98
    is the one thing wrong with the system.
    I agree that the attempted CPU upgrade may not have anything to do with it
    but perhaps some setting in the BIOS controlling disk access was changed
    during that procedure (LBA, word length, PIO mode, etc.). I realize that is
    a long shot into a dark night.

    Is it possible to run Norton Disk Doctor from within XP and check C:?

    SilverSurfer


    "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The problem is that Windows 98 is used very infrequently, sometimes not
    > for months, and so I really don't know when the problem occured. In fact,
    > the laptop is only used a couple of hours per month.
    >
    > I had tried a CPU upgrade, which failed, but with the attempted upgrade
    > (P4 replacing a Celeron), the laptop didn't even POST, so it's
    > inconceivable to me that this could have caused the problem. The problem
    > was first noticed after reinstalling the original Celeron CPU, however it
    > cannot be concluded from that that this is when it actually occured, or
    > that the attempted CPU upgrade had anything to do with the problem
    > (although I agree it is suspicious). With the P4 installed, turning on
    > the power simply caused an immediate and continuous tone (beep, but solid
    > continuous) from the speaker, and the laptop was totally unresponsive in
    > all regards, it was basically completely dead.
    >
    > [Kind of surprising, Toshiba sold this machine as a 1410/1415 with a
    > Celeron and a 2410/2415 with a P4, and I was trying to upgrade from the
    > 1415 to the mobile p4 used in the 2410 (which is virtually identical to
    > the celeron). Although I was not sure of it when I posted earlier, it was
    > subsequently determined that the mobile P4 CPU chip was good.]
    >
    >
    > SilverSurfer wrote:
    >
    >> I have read through the posts concerning this problem. Did anything
    >> change prior to the development of the problem, e.g. downloaded new
    >> drivers, service packs, etc.
    >>
    >> Logically, you would think that something must have caused this aberrant
    >> behavior that apparrently occurred overnight.
    >>
    >> SilverSurfer
    >>
    >>
    >> "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    >> news:T0Qne.16494$...
    >>
    >>>I'm having a strange problem with my system involving the disk drive
    >>>(although I'm pretty sure it's not hardware, but software).
    >>>
    >>>The system (a laptop) is dual boot and has 4 partitions:
    >>>
    >>>C: Windows 98 FAT32 (10 gigs)(Primary)
    >>>
    >>>Extended DOS partition containing:
    >>>D: Windows XP Pro FAT32 (11 gigs)
    >>>E: Data Fat32 (24 gigs)
    >>>F: Data NTFS (10 gigs)
    >>>
    >>>The system is 3 years old and has been working fine until tonight. The
    >>>problem is that if I boot Windows 98, the 3 FAT32 partitions in the
    >>>Extended DOS partition appear very badly corrupted. In fact, Norton Disk
    >>>Doctor reports that the entire chain of logical drives in the extended
    >>>partition is corrupted, and in Windows itself, it's clear that something
    >>>is wrong, badly, seriously wrong (filenames are totally corrupt with
    >>>invalid characters).
    >>>
    >>>However, if I boot XP, both XP and any diagnostic programs that I run all
    >>>report everything to be fine, and indeed everything I do (including
    >>>actual file access) under XP looks fine.
    >>>
    >>>It's really odd, because the very same programs (Norton Disk Doctor,
    >>>installed separately in both OS') give totally different results
    >>>depending on which OS you are running them under.
    >>>
    >>>Again, this problem has developed (or I've just become aware of it)
    >>>tonight, the system is 3 years old.
    >>>
    >>>Anyone have any idea what could be going on here that things seem so
    >>>wrong under 98SE but fine under XP?
    >>>

    >>
    >>
     
    SilverSurfer, Jun 8, 2005
    #4
  5. SilverSurfer

    SilverSurfer Guest

    I seem to remember that there was a somewhat similar problem with Windows 95
    and NDD where bugs in Windows 95 hard disk drivers caused data corruption
    (cross-linked clusters etc.) and after fixing it with NDD one would be in a
    real "fix"; the problem seemed to be related to the way Windows 95 OSR2
    handled extended partitions created by FDISK on hard drives greater than 504
    MB (which thus required LBA).

    My best bet would be that in your situation the partition table is
    specifying a different (incorrect?) head-cylinder-sector translation than
    the BIOS or the OS (Windows 98). As to the possible cause of this, I remain
    ignorant.

    SilverSurfer.


    "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > C: (the primary partition) is fine from both OS, and all partitions are
    > fine from XP.
    >
    > I've run NDD from both OS'. It reports the same thing that the OS'
    > themselves see: Run from XP, it reports no problems of any kind with any
    > partitions at all. Run from 98, it reports C: is fine, and that the
    > extended DOS partition and all logical drives within it are invalid.
    >
    > [FWIW, I did let it "fix" the extended DOS partition, but I had it make an
    > "undo" disk. The Fix failed, and the extended DOS partitions were then
    > completely inaccessible from both 98 and XP. I ran the "undo" and,
    > indeed, it put things back just the way that had been.
    >
    > There is no data loss here, for two reasons: First, my notebook is not my
    > primary PC, and everything on it exists on my desktop PC and, second,
    > since I can access everything correctly from XP, I could backup, wipe the
    > drive, recreate the partitions and restore. But recreating the entire 60
    > gig drive from scratch is a fairly big deal (if I were to reinstall the
    > OS' and all applications, it could take 3 days).
    >
    > I believe that there is a "defect" in the extended DOS partition data
    > structures (partition tables). While the problem could be corruption of a
    > 98 software component that is responsible for disk access, that seems
    > unlikely. However, I don't understand how a disk structure data problem
    > could impact 98 and not XP, or how such a problem would not be easily
    > detectable and correctable with any disk drive maintanence utility.]
    >
    >
    > SilverSurfer wrote:
    >
    >> Since booting into XP seems fine and all data on the extended DOS
    >> partitions are readily accessible within XP, the culprit must lie
    >> somewhere within the primary FAT32 partition. I don't recall if you could
    >> access anything on C: from within XP but I assume that is OK.
    >>
    >> Also, since booting into Win98 seems to work OK, I assume that accessing
    >> anything on C: from within Win98 is also OK.
    >>
    >> Please note that I am by no means an expert but it would appear that
    >> something that controls access of the extended DOS partitions from
    >> within98 is the one thing wrong with the system.
    >> I agree that the attempted CPU upgrade may not have anything to do with
    >> it but perhaps some setting in the BIOS controlling disk access was
    >> changed during that procedure (LBA, word length, PIO mode, etc.). I
    >> realize that is a long shot into a dark night.
    >>
    >> Is it possible to run Norton Disk Doctor from within XP and check C:?
    >>
    >> SilverSurfer
    >>
    >>
    >> "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>>The problem is that Windows 98 is used very infrequently, sometimes not
    >>>for months, and so I really don't know when the problem occured. In
    >>>fact, the laptop is only used a couple of hours per month.
    >>>
    >>>I had tried a CPU upgrade, which failed, but with the attempted upgrade
    >>>(P4 replacing a Celeron), the laptop didn't even POST, so it's
    >>>inconceivable to me that this could have caused the problem. The problem
    >>>was first noticed after reinstalling the original Celeron CPU, however it
    >>>cannot be concluded from that that this is when it actually occured, or
    >>>that the attempted CPU upgrade had anything to do with the problem
    >>>(although I agree it is suspicious). With the P4 installed, turning on
    >>>the power simply caused an immediate and continuous tone (beep, but solid
    >>>continuous) from the speaker, and the laptop was totally unresponsive in
    >>>all regards, it was basically completely dead.
    >>>
    >>>[Kind of surprising, Toshiba sold this machine as a 1410/1415 with a
    >>>Celeron and a 2410/2415 with a P4, and I was trying to upgrade from the
    >>>1415 to the mobile p4 used in the 2410 (which is virtually identical to
    >>>the celeron). Although I was not sure of it when I posted earlier, it
    >>>was subsequently determined that the mobile P4 CPU chip was good.]
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>SilverSurfer wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>I have read through the posts concerning this problem. Did anything
    >>>>change prior to the development of the problem, e.g. downloaded new
    >>>>drivers, service packs, etc.
    >>>>
    >>>>Logically, you would think that something must have caused this aberrant
    >>>>behavior that apparrently occurred overnight.
    >>>>
    >>>>SilverSurfer
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>"Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    >>>>news:T0Qne.16494$...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>I'm having a strange problem with my system involving the disk drive
    >>>>>(although I'm pretty sure it's not hardware, but software).
    >>>>>
    >>>>>The system (a laptop) is dual boot and has 4 partitions:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>C: Windows 98 FAT32 (10 gigs)(Primary)
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Extended DOS partition containing:
    >>>>>D: Windows XP Pro FAT32 (11 gigs)
    >>>>>E: Data Fat32 (24 gigs)
    >>>>>F: Data NTFS (10 gigs)
    >>>>>
    >>>>>The system is 3 years old and has been working fine until tonight. The
    >>>>>problem is that if I boot Windows 98, the 3 FAT32 partitions in the
    >>>>>Extended DOS partition appear very badly corrupted. In fact, Norton
    >>>>>Disk Doctor reports that the entire chain of logical drives in the
    >>>>>extended partition is corrupted, and in Windows itself, it's clear that
    >>>>>something is wrong, badly, seriously wrong (filenames are totally
    >>>>>corrupt with invalid characters).
    >>>>>
    >>>>>However, if I boot XP, both XP and any diagnostic programs that I run
    >>>>>all report everything to be fine, and indeed everything I do (including
    >>>>>actual file access) under XP looks fine.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>It's really odd, because the very same programs (Norton Disk Doctor,
    >>>>>installed separately in both OS') give totally different results
    >>>>>depending on which OS you are running them under.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Again, this problem has developed (or I've just become aware of it)
    >>>>>tonight, the system is 3 years old.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Anyone have any idea what could be going on here that things seem so
    >>>>>wrong under 98SE but fine under XP?
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>

    >>
     
    SilverSurfer, Jun 8, 2005
    #5
  6. SilverSurfer

    rainman Guest

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    SilverSurfer wrote:
    > I seem to remember that there was a somewhat similar problem with Windows 95
    > and NDD where bugs in Windows 95 hard disk drivers caused data corruption
    > (cross-linked clusters etc.) and after fixing it with NDD one would be in a
    > real "fix"; the problem seemed to be related to the way Windows 95 OSR2
    > handled extended partitions created by FDISK on hard drives greater than 504
    > MB (which thus required LBA).
    >
    > My best bet would be that in your situation the partition table is
    > specifying a different (incorrect?) head-cylinder-sector translation than
    > the BIOS or the OS (Windows 98). As to the possible cause of this, I remain
    > ignorant.
    >
    > SilverSurfer.


    Just to be safe, you could try checking the CMOS to make sure the drive
    is set up to Autodetect, or set it to LBA... I'm not too clear on this
    being an appropriate fix, though... this is a very weird issue.

    If it's a driver issue, you could always check the manufacturer's
    website... or call them. You could call MS also, but they'll laugh at
    you, because 98 is no longer supported by their new lifecycle support
    model concept.

    Rainman


    > "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>C: (the primary partition) is fine from both OS, and all partitions are
    >>fine from XP.
    >>
    >>I've run NDD from both OS'. It reports the same thing that the OS'
    >>themselves see: Run from XP, it reports no problems of any kind with any
    >>partitions at all. Run from 98, it reports C: is fine, and that the
    >>extended DOS partition and all logical drives within it are invalid.
    >>
    >>[FWIW, I did let it "fix" the extended DOS partition, but I had it make an
    >>"undo" disk. The Fix failed, and the extended DOS partitions were then
    >>completely inaccessible from both 98 and XP. I ran the "undo" and,
    >>indeed, it put things back just the way that had been.
    >>
    >>There is no data loss here, for two reasons: First, my notebook is not my
    >>primary PC, and everything on it exists on my desktop PC and, second,
    >>since I can access everything correctly from XP, I could backup, wipe the
    >>drive, recreate the partitions and restore. But recreating the entire 60
    >>gig drive from scratch is a fairly big deal (if I were to reinstall the
    >>OS' and all applications, it could take 3 days).
    >>
    >>I believe that there is a "defect" in the extended DOS partition data
    >>structures (partition tables). While the problem could be corruption of a
    >>98 software component that is responsible for disk access, that seems
    >>unlikely. However, I don't understand how a disk structure data problem
    >>could impact 98 and not XP, or how such a problem would not be easily
    >>detectable and correctable with any disk drive maintanence utility.]
    >>
    >>
    >>SilverSurfer wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Since booting into XP seems fine and all data on the extended DOS
    >>>partitions are readily accessible within XP, the culprit must lie
    >>>somewhere within the primary FAT32 partition. I don't recall if you could
    >>>access anything on C: from within XP but I assume that is OK.
    >>>
    >>>Also, since booting into Win98 seems to work OK, I assume that accessing
    >>>anything on C: from within Win98 is also OK.
    >>>
    >>>Please note that I am by no means an expert but it would appear that
    >>>something that controls access of the extended DOS partitions from
    >>>within98 is the one thing wrong with the system.
    >>>I agree that the attempted CPU upgrade may not have anything to do with
    >>>it but perhaps some setting in the BIOS controlling disk access was
    >>>changed during that procedure (LBA, word length, PIO mode, etc.). I
    >>>realize that is a long shot into a dark night.
    >>>
    >>>Is it possible to run Norton Disk Doctor from within XP and check C:?
    >>>
    >>>SilverSurfer
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>"Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>The problem is that Windows 98 is used very infrequently, sometimes not
    >>>>for months, and so I really don't know when the problem occured. In
    >>>>fact, the laptop is only used a couple of hours per month.
    >>>>
    >>>>I had tried a CPU upgrade, which failed, but with the attempted upgrade
    >>>>(P4 replacing a Celeron), the laptop didn't even POST, so it's
    >>>>inconceivable to me that this could have caused the problem. The problem
    >>>>was first noticed after reinstalling the original Celeron CPU, however it
    >>>>cannot be concluded from that that this is when it actually occured, or
    >>>>that the attempted CPU upgrade had anything to do with the problem
    >>>>(although I agree it is suspicious). With the P4 installed, turning on
    >>>>the power simply caused an immediate and continuous tone (beep, but solid
    >>>>continuous) from the speaker, and the laptop was totally unresponsive in
    >>>>all regards, it was basically completely dead.
    >>>>
    >>>>[Kind of surprising, Toshiba sold this machine as a 1410/1415 with a
    >>>>Celeron and a 2410/2415 with a P4, and I was trying to upgrade from the
    >>>>1415 to the mobile p4 used in the 2410 (which is virtually identical to
    >>>>the celeron). Although I was not sure of it when I posted earlier, it
    >>>>was subsequently determined that the mobile P4 CPU chip was good.]
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>SilverSurfer wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>I have read through the posts concerning this problem. Did anything
    >>>>>change prior to the development of the problem, e.g. downloaded new
    >>>>>drivers, service packs, etc.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Logically, you would think that something must have caused this aberrant
    >>>>>behavior that apparrently occurred overnight.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>SilverSurfer
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>"Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    >>>>>news:T0Qne.16494$...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>I'm having a strange problem with my system involving the disk drive
    >>>>>>(although I'm pretty sure it's not hardware, but software).
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>The system (a laptop) is dual boot and has 4 partitions:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>C: Windows 98 FAT32 (10 gigs)(Primary)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Extended DOS partition containing:
    >>>>>>D: Windows XP Pro FAT32 (11 gigs)
    >>>>>>E: Data Fat32 (24 gigs)
    >>>>>>F: Data NTFS (10 gigs)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>The system is 3 years old and has been working fine until tonight. The
    >>>>>>problem is that if I boot Windows 98, the 3 FAT32 partitions in the
    >>>>>>Extended DOS partition appear very badly corrupted. In fact, Norton
    >>>>>>Disk Doctor reports that the entire chain of logical drives in the
    >>>>>>extended partition is corrupted, and in Windows itself, it's clear that
    >>>>>>something is wrong, badly, seriously wrong (filenames are totally
    >>>>>>corrupt with invalid characters).
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>However, if I boot XP, both XP and any diagnostic programs that I run
    >>>>>>all report everything to be fine, and indeed everything I do (including
    >>>>>>actual file access) under XP looks fine.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>It's really odd, because the very same programs (Norton Disk Doctor,
    >>>>>>installed separately in both OS') give totally different results
    >>>>>>depending on which OS you are running them under.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Again, this problem has developed (or I've just become aware of it)
    >>>>>>tonight, the system is 3 years old.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Anyone have any idea what could be going on here that things seem so
    >>>>>>wrong under 98SE but fine under XP?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>

    >
    >


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    Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

    iD8DBQFCpzdD9ZOMhmWO5XkRAjLBAKCFrbxOy3eKRxb13gKTGI85cIxMrQCfZK6a
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    =Y/kL
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
     
    rainman, Jun 8, 2005
    #6
  7. SilverSurfer

    SilverSurfer Guest

    I was taught that LBA addressing is not really getting around the 504 MB
    hard drive barrier (relying on CHS) but it is just another way to address
    the same geometry. LBA mode automatically enables geometry translation
    through the use of BIOS Int 13h extensions. Perhaps the registry setting
    EnableBigLBA (or something like it, I forget the correct name) in the
    Windows 98 environment has been changed.

    SilverSurfer.

    "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Re: "My best bet would be that in your situation the partition table is
    > specifying a different (incorrect?) head-cylinder-sector translation than
    > the BIOS or the OS (Windows 98)."
    >
    > When you are using LBA (logical block addressing), which is the case here,
    > there is no such thing as head-cylinder-sector translation. Only logical
    > blocks are used, all the way from the OS to the drive. CHS (cyl, head,
    > sector) is a thing of the past.
    >
    >
    > SilverSurfer wrote:
    >> I seem to remember that there was a somewhat similar problem with Windows
    >> 95 and NDD where bugs in Windows 95 hard disk drivers caused data
    >> corruption (cross-linked clusters etc.) and after fixing it with NDD one
    >> would be in a real "fix"; the problem seemed to be related to the way
    >> Windows 95 OSR2 handled extended partitions created by FDISK on hard
    >> drives greater than 504 MB (which thus required LBA).
    >>
    >> My best bet would be that in your situation the partition table is
    >> specifying a different (incorrect?) head-cylinder-sector translation than
    >> the BIOS or the OS (Windows 98). As to the possible cause of this, I
    >> remain ignorant.
    >>
    >> SilverSurfer.
    >>
    >>
    >> "Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>>C: (the primary partition) is fine from both OS, and all partitions are
    >>>fine from XP.
    >>>
    >>>I've run NDD from both OS'. It reports the same thing that the OS'
    >>>themselves see: Run from XP, it reports no problems of any kind with any
    >>>partitions at all. Run from 98, it reports C: is fine, and that the
    >>>extended DOS partition and all logical drives within it are invalid.
    >>>
    >>>[FWIW, I did let it "fix" the extended DOS partition, but I had it make
    >>>an "undo" disk. The Fix failed, and the extended DOS partitions were
    >>>then completely inaccessible from both 98 and XP. I ran the "undo" and,
    >>>indeed, it put things back just the way that had been.
    >>>
    >>>There is no data loss here, for two reasons: First, my notebook is not
    >>>my primary PC, and everything on it exists on my desktop PC and, second,
    >>>since I can access everything correctly from XP, I could backup, wipe the
    >>>drive, recreate the partitions and restore. But recreating the entire 60
    >>>gig drive from scratch is a fairly big deal (if I were to reinstall the
    >>>OS' and all applications, it could take 3 days).
    >>>
    >>>I believe that there is a "defect" in the extended DOS partition data
    >>>structures (partition tables). While the problem could be corruption of
    >>>a 98 software component that is responsible for disk access, that seems
    >>>unlikely. However, I don't understand how a disk structure data problem
    >>>could impact 98 and not XP, or how such a problem would not be easily
    >>>detectable and correctable with any disk drive maintanence utility.]
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>SilverSurfer wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Since booting into XP seems fine and all data on the extended DOS
    >>>>partitions are readily accessible within XP, the culprit must lie
    >>>>somewhere within the primary FAT32 partition. I don't recall if you
    >>>>could access anything on C: from within XP but I assume that is OK.
    >>>>
    >>>>Also, since booting into Win98 seems to work OK, I assume that accessing
    >>>>anything on C: from within Win98 is also OK.
    >>>>
    >>>>Please note that I am by no means an expert but it would appear that
    >>>>something that controls access of the extended DOS partitions from
    >>>>within98 is the one thing wrong with the system.
    >>>>I agree that the attempted CPU upgrade may not have anything to do with
    >>>>it but perhaps some setting in the BIOS controlling disk access was
    >>>>changed during that procedure (LBA, word length, PIO mode, etc.). I
    >>>>realize that is a long shot into a dark night.
    >>>>
    >>>>Is it possible to run Norton Disk Doctor from within XP and check C:?
    >>>>
    >>>>SilverSurfer
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>"Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    >>>>news:...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>The problem is that Windows 98 is used very infrequently, sometimes not
    >>>>>for months, and so I really don't know when the problem occured. In
    >>>>>fact, the laptop is only used a couple of hours per month.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>I had tried a CPU upgrade, which failed, but with the attempted upgrade
    >>>>>(P4 replacing a Celeron), the laptop didn't even POST, so it's
    >>>>>inconceivable to me that this could have caused the problem. The
    >>>>>problem was first noticed after reinstalling the original Celeron CPU,
    >>>>>however it cannot be concluded from that that this is when it actually
    >>>>>occured, or that the attempted CPU upgrade had anything to do with the
    >>>>>problem (although I agree it is suspicious). With the P4 installed,
    >>>>>turning on the power simply caused an immediate and continuous tone
    >>>>>(beep, but solid continuous) from the speaker, and the laptop was
    >>>>>totally unresponsive in all regards, it was basically completely dead.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>[Kind of surprising, Toshiba sold this machine as a 1410/1415 with a
    >>>>>Celeron and a 2410/2415 with a P4, and I was trying to upgrade from the
    >>>>>1415 to the mobile p4 used in the 2410 (which is virtually identical to
    >>>>>the celeron). Although I was not sure of it when I posted earlier, it
    >>>>>was subsequently determined that the mobile P4 CPU chip was good.]
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>SilverSurfer wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>I have read through the posts concerning this problem. Did anything
    >>>>>>change prior to the development of the problem, e.g. downloaded new
    >>>>>>drivers, service packs, etc.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Logically, you would think that something must have caused this
    >>>>>>aberrant behavior that apparrently occurred overnight.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>SilverSurfer
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>"Barry Watzman" <> wrote in message
    >>>>>>news:T0Qne.16494$...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>I'm having a strange problem with my system involving the disk drive
    >>>>>>>(although I'm pretty sure it's not hardware, but software).
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>The system (a laptop) is dual boot and has 4 partitions:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>C: Windows 98 FAT32 (10 gigs)(Primary)
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Extended DOS partition containing:
    >>>>>>>D: Windows XP Pro FAT32 (11 gigs)
    >>>>>>>E: Data Fat32 (24 gigs)
    >>>>>>>F: Data NTFS (10 gigs)
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>The system is 3 years old and has been working fine until tonight.
    >>>>>>>The problem is that if I boot Windows 98, the 3 FAT32 partitions in
    >>>>>>>the Extended DOS partition appear very badly corrupted. In fact,
    >>>>>>>Norton Disk Doctor reports that the entire chain of logical drives in
    >>>>>>>the extended partition is corrupted, and in Windows itself, it's
    >>>>>>>clear that something is wrong, badly, seriously wrong (filenames are
    >>>>>>>totally corrupt with invalid characters).
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>However, if I boot XP, both XP and any diagnostic programs that I run
    >>>>>>>all report everything to be fine, and indeed everything I do
    >>>>>>>(including actual file access) under XP looks fine.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>It's really odd, because the very same programs (Norton Disk Doctor,
    >>>>>>>installed separately in both OS') give totally different results
    >>>>>>>depending on which OS you are running them under.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Again, this problem has developed (or I've just become aware of it)
    >>>>>>>tonight, the system is 3 years old.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Anyone have any idea what could be going on here that things seem so
    >>>>>>>wrong under 98SE but fine under XP?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>

    >>
     
    SilverSurfer, Jun 9, 2005
    #7
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