Re: Sony offers Compact Flash -- HELL JUST FROZE OVER!

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by FOR7b, Aug 18, 2003.

  1. FOR7b

    FOR7b Guest

    >If only the C5050 had a lens more like the one on the Sony f717,
    >I would have bought one already. I want a zoom that is 5x or more,
    >however I also want a lens that is f2.8 or faster at max telephoto.
    >I also want a low noise ISO 800 mode. The Sony F717 would be
    >great except for the proprietary battery and use of memory sticks.


    So you forgo what you consider the better picture taker for things that are
    meaningless like media type and battery? Strange.


     
    FOR7b, Aug 18, 2003
    #1
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  2. FOR7b

    JK Guest

    The f717 isn't necessarily "the better picture taker" , however the greater
    zooms range that the lens has while still being quite fast makes it
    more versatile. The 800 ISO mode is also very helpful in low light
    situations. The media type and battery are not insignificant. For the
    F717, they add tremendously to the cost. Compare an F717 plus two
    spare batteries and 512 megs of memory sticks(around $1100?)
    To an Olympus C5050 with two spare sets of nimh batteries and
    512 megs of compact flash at under $700 total. That is quite a
    large price difference.

    FOR7b wrote:

    > >If only the C5050 had a lens more like the one on the Sony f717,
    > >I would have bought one already. I want a zoom that is 5x or more,
    > >however I also want a lens that is f2.8 or faster at max telephoto.
    > >I also want a low noise ISO 800 mode. The Sony F717 would be
    > >great except for the proprietary battery and use of memory sticks.

    >
    > So you forgo what you consider the better picture taker for things that are
    > meaningless like media type and battery? Strange.
    >
    >
     
    JK, Aug 18, 2003
    #2
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  3. FOR7b

    Max Burke Guest

    > JK scribbled:
    > The f717 isn't necessarily "the better picture taker" , however the
    > greater zooms range that the lens has while still being quite fast
    > makes it
    > more versatile. The 800 ISO mode is also very helpful in low light
    > situations. The media type and battery are not insignificant. For the
    > F717, they add tremendously to the cost. Compare an F717 plus two
    > spare batteries and 512 megs of memory sticks(around $1100?)
    > To an Olympus C5050 with two spare sets of nimh batteries and
    > 512 megs of compact flash at under $700 total. That is quite a
    > large price difference.


    How long do AA batteries last for? What is their 'lifetime?'
    I am using a Sony proprietary battery (NPF550) with my Sony FD91 that is
    coming up to five years old and another two that are four years old, and
    all still hold a full 180 minute charge that gives me several days
    shooting with that camera.....

    How many sets of AA batteries would you have had to buy in the last five
    years?

    I fully expect the two proprietary batteries that I use with my '717
    will last just as long; So far the batteries last about a 5-7 days
    before needing a recharge in the '717 ......

    --
    mlvburke@#%&*.net.nz
    Replace the obvious with paradise to email me.
    See Found Images at:
    http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke
     
    Max Burke, Aug 18, 2003
    #3
  4. FOR7b

    FOR7b Guest

    >The f717 isn't necessarily "the better picture taker" , however the greater
    >zooms range that the lens has while still being quite fast makes it
    >more versatile. The 800 ISO mode is also very helpful in low light
    >situations. The media type and battery are not insignificant. For the
    >F717, they add tremendously to the cost.



    Nope. 128mb Mem sticks are not expensive and they are also a one time cost. So
    once bought it is insignificant. Also, I said better picture taker because you
    yourself argued in favor of it, besides the objections you raised that are
    totally unrelated to image quality or ability.


    Compare an F717 plus two
    >spare batteries and 512 megs of memory sticks(around $1100?)
    >To an Olympus C5050 with two spare sets of nimh batteries and
    >512 megs of compact flash at under $700 total. That is quite a
    >large price difference.
    >



    Nope again, your prices are wrong. You need to look up current prices.

    Sony F717 can be had rountinely at around $600 and even less. Two 256 mem
    sticks at $64 each and the two batteries as cheap as $24 each (Sony brand too).
    Using shopper.com and pricegrabber prices I get a total of $795. Also most
    people would never need two spare batteries. I certainly wouldn't.




     
    FOR7b, Aug 18, 2003
    #4
  5. FOR7b

    FOR7b Guest

    >How many sets of AA batteries would you have had to buy in the last five
    >years?
    >
    >I fully expect the two proprietary batteries that I use with my '717
    >will last just as long; So far the batteries last about a 5-7 days
    >before needing a recharge in the '717 ......
    >
    >--
    >mlvburke@#%&*.net.nz


    And here in America you can buy them for $24 as of this morning.


     
    FOR7b, Aug 18, 2003
    #5
  6. FOR7b

    JK Guest

    Max Burke wrote:

    > > JK scribbled:
    > > The f717 isn't necessarily "the better picture taker" , however the
    > > greater zooms range that the lens has while still being quite fast
    > > makes it
    > > more versatile. The 800 ISO mode is also very helpful in low light
    > > situations. The media type and battery are not insignificant. For the
    > > F717, they add tremendously to the cost. Compare an F717 plus two
    > > spare batteries and 512 megs of memory sticks(around $1100?)
    > > To an Olympus C5050 with two spare sets of nimh batteries and
    > > 512 megs of compact flash at under $700 total. That is quite a
    > > large price difference.

    >
    > How long do AA batteries last for? What is their 'lifetime?'


    4 AA 1800 mah nimh batteries have around the same power as the
    battery the f717 uses. The aet of AAs are around one tenth of the
    price though.

    >
    > I am using a Sony proprietary battery (NPF550) with my Sony FD91 that is
    > coming up to five years old and another two that are four years old, and
    > all still hold a full 180 minute charge that gives me several days
    > shooting with that camera.....
    >
    > How many sets of AA batteries would you have had to buy in the last five
    > years?
    >
    > I fully expect the two proprietary batteries that I use with my '717
    > will last just as long; So far the batteries last about a 5-7 days
    > before needing a recharge in the '717 ......


    >
    >
    > --
    > mlvburke@#%&*.net.nz
    > Replace the obvious with paradise to email me.
    > See Found Images at:
    > http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke
     
    JK, Aug 18, 2003
    #6
  7. FOR7b

    Ian Burley Guest

    In my experience, NiMH cells are much tougher than LiIon. I can't remember,
    off the top of my head, which way around it is, but LiIon cells can be
    damaged by storing them either fully charged or fully discharged. I have a
    collection of dead (finito) LiIon batteries for my JVC Camcorder, for
    example. NiMH batteries do slowly leak charge once charged up, but you can
    store them charged or discharged without harming them. Some NiMH cells I use
    regularly are 6 years old. My electric razor has NiMHs and is recharged
    about every ten days and it's 6 years old (300+ charge cycles) and still
    maintains the same charge level as when it was new.

    The other great thing about AAs is that you can use them in all sorts of
    other electric devices from flash guns to toys.

    Ian

    --

    DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY NOW - http://www.dp-now.com
    UK-based Web magazine for users of digital photography
    hardware, software and services.


    "Max Burke" <mlvburke@%$%#@.nz> wrote in message
    news:nFk0b.12463$...
    > > JK scribbled:

    >
    > >> Max Burke wrote:

    >
    > >>> JK scribbled:
    > >>> The f717 isn't necessarily "the better picture taker" , however the
    > >>> greater zooms range that the lens has while still being quite fast
    > >>> makes it
    > >>> more versatile. The 800 ISO mode is also very helpful in low light
    > >>> situations. The media type and battery are not insignificant. For
    > >>> the F717, they add tremendously to the cost. Compare an F717 plus
    > >>> two spare batteries and 512 megs of memory sticks(around $1100?)
    > >>> To an Olympus C5050 with two spare sets of nimh batteries and
    > >>> 512 megs of compact flash at under $700 total. That is quite a
    > >>> large price difference.

    >
    > >> How long do AA batteries last for? What is their 'lifetime?'

    >
    > > 4 AA 1800 mah nimh batteries have around the same power as the
    > > battery the f717 uses. The aet of AAs are around one tenth of the
    > > price though.

    >
    > That isn't what I asked.... How long do AA batteries last for? What is
    > their lifetime to mean failure? 6 months? 12 months?
    > How many times can they be recharged before failure?
    >
    > AA batteries only have a limited lifetime usage that comes no where near
    > the LONG lifetime of a Sony proprietary battery.
    > So add up the cost of all the AA batteries you would buy over say five
    > years and then compare it to the cost on buying *ONE* battery the lasts
    > five+ years and is STILL as good as it was when first charged and
    > used.....
    >
    > To repeat:
    > I am using a Sony proprietary battery (NPF550) with my Sony FD91 that is
    > coming up to five years old and another two that are four years old, and
    > all still hold a full 180 minute charge that gives me several days
    > shooting with that camera.....
    >
    > How many sets of AA batteries would you have had to buy in the last five
    > years?
    >
    > I fully expect the two proprietary batteries that I use with my '717
    > will last just as long; So far the batteries last about a 5-7 days
    > before needing a recharge in the '717 ......
    >
    > --
    > mlvburke@#%&*.net.nz
    > Replace the obvious with paradise to email me.
    > See Found Images at:
    > http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke
    >
     
    Ian Burley, Aug 19, 2003
    #7
  8. FOR7b

    JK Guest

    Max Burke wrote:

    > > JK scribbled:

    >
    > >> Max Burke wrote:

    >
    > >>> JK scribbled:
    > >>> The f717 isn't necessarily "the better picture taker" , however the
    > >>> greater zooms range that the lens has while still being quite fast
    > >>> makes it
    > >>> more versatile. The 800 ISO mode is also very helpful in low light
    > >>> situations. The media type and battery are not insignificant. For
    > >>> the F717, they add tremendously to the cost. Compare an F717 plus
    > >>> two spare batteries and 512 megs of memory sticks(around $1100?)
    > >>> To an Olympus C5050 with two spare sets of nimh batteries and
    > >>> 512 megs of compact flash at under $700 total. That is quite a
    > >>> large price difference.

    >
    > >> How long do AA batteries last for? What is their 'lifetime?'

    >
    > > 4 AA 1800 mah nimh batteries have around the same power as the
    > > battery the f717 uses. The aet of AAs are around one tenth of the
    > > price though.

    >
    > That isn't what I asked.... How long do AA batteries last for? What is
    > their lifetime to mean failure? 6 months? 12 months?
    > How many times can they be recharged before failure?


    Decent quality AA nimh batteries charged in a good 3 hour charger will
    probably last for well over 300 charge cycles, and may even last for
    close to 1000 charge cycles? At an average of two charges a week,
    300 cycles would take around 3 years.

    >
    >
    > AA batteries only have a limited lifetime usage that comes no where near
    > the LONG lifetime of a Sony proprietary battery.


    Do you have any proof of that? Perhaps lithium rechargeables might last
    for fewer charge cycles than decent quality nimh batteries charged with a
    good 3 hour charger?

    >
    > So add up the cost of all the AA batteries you would buy over say five
    > years and then compare it to the cost on buying *ONE* battery the lasts
    > five+ years and is STILL as good as it was when first charged and
    > used.....
    >
    > To repeat:
    > I am using a Sony proprietary battery (NPF550) with my Sony FD91 that is
    > coming up to five years old and another two that are four years old, and
    > all still hold a full 180 minute charge that gives me several days
    > shooting with that camera.....
    >
    > How many sets of AA batteries would you have had to buy in the last five
    > years?
    >
    > I fully expect the two proprietary batteries that I use with my '717
    > will last just as long; So far the batteries last about a 5-7 days
    > before needing a recharge in the '717 ......
    >
    > --
    > mlvburke@#%&*.net.nz
    > Replace the obvious with paradise to email me.
    > See Found Images at:
    > http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke
     
    JK, Aug 19, 2003
    #8
  9. FOR7b

    Max Burke Guest

    > JK scribbled:

    >> Max Burke wrote:


    > 4 AA 1800 mah nimh batteries have around the same power as the
    > battery the f717 uses. The aet of AAs are around one tenth of the
    > price though.


    >> That isn't what I asked.... How long do AA batteries last for? What
    >> is their lifetime to mean failure? 6 months? 12 months?
    >> How many times can they be recharged before failure?


    > Decent quality AA nimh batteries charged in a good 3 hour charger will
    > probably last for well over 300 charge cycles, and may even last for
    > close to 1000 charge cycles?


    My Sony NP F550's are 4 and 5 years old and still charge to a full 180
    minutes.....
    All of then are well over the 500 charges Sony says they'll take in
    their lifetime.....

    > At an average of two charges a week,
    > 300 cycles would take around 3 years.


    And would they fully charge after three years of usage?

    >> AA batteries only have a limited lifetime usage that comes no where
    >> near the LONG lifetime of a Sony proprietary battery.


    > Do you have any proof of that?


    Yes. Three NP F550's that are between 4 - 5 years old that still charge
    fully to 180 minutes.....

    To repeat:
    So add up the cost of all the AA batteries you would buy over say five
    years and then compare it to the cost on buying *ONE* battery the lasts
    five+ years and is STILL as good as it was when first charged and
    used.....

    I am using a Sony proprietary battery (NPF550) with my Sony FD91 that is
    coming up to five years old and another two that are four years old, and
    all still hold a full 180 minute charge that gives me several days
    shooting with that camera.....

    How many sets of AA batteries would you have had to buy in the last
    five years?

    I fully expect the two proprietary batteries that I use with my '717
    will last just as long; So far the batteries last about a 5-7 days
    before needing a recharge in the '717 ......

    --
    mlvburke@#%&*.net.nz
    Replace the obvious with paradise to email me.
    See Found Images at:
    http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke
     
    Max Burke, Aug 20, 2003
    #9
  10. FOR7b

    JK Guest

    Max Burke wrote:

    > > JK scribbled:

    >
    > >> Max Burke wrote:

    >
    > > 4 AA 1800 mah nimh batteries have around the same power as the
    > > battery the f717 uses. The aet of AAs are around one tenth of the
    > > price though.

    >
    > >> That isn't what I asked.... How long do AA batteries last for? What
    > >> is their lifetime to mean failure? 6 months? 12 months?
    > >> How many times can they be recharged before failure?

    >
    > > Decent quality AA nimh batteries charged in a good 3 hour charger will
    > > probably last for well over 300 charge cycles, and may even last for
    > > close to 1000 charge cycles?

    >
    > My Sony NP F550's are 4 and 5 years old and still charge to a full 180
    > minutes.....
    > All of then are well over the 500 charges Sony says they'll take in
    > their lifetime.....
    >
    > > At an average of two charges a week,
    > > 300 cycles would take around 3 years.

    >
    > And would they fully charge after three years of usage?
    >
    > >> AA batteries only have a limited lifetime usage that comes no where
    > >> near the LONG lifetime of a Sony proprietary battery.

    >
    > > Do you have any proof of that?

    >
    > Yes. Three NP F550's that are between 4 - 5 years old that still charge
    > fully to 180 minutes.....


    I am talking about a statistical study, not you off the cuff account.

    >
    >
    > To repeat:
    > So add up the cost of all the AA batteries you would buy over say five
    > years and then compare it to the cost on buying *ONE* battery the lasts
    > five+ years and is STILL as good as it was when first charged and
    > used.....


    >
    >
    > I am using a Sony proprietary battery (NPF550) with my Sony FD91 that is
    > coming up to five years old and another two that are four years old, and
    > all still hold a full 180 minute charge that gives me several days
    > shooting with that camera.....
    >
    > How many sets of AA batteries would you have had to buy in the last
    > five years?


    AA nimh batteries of high quality last well over 300 charges. That is
    sufficient. It is possible that they may even last over 1000 charges.
    Those who buy low quality nimh batteries and use them in a junky
    charger may not get a decent number of cycles. Perhaps that is your
    experience with nimh batteries?

    >
    >
    > I fully expect the two proprietary batteries that I use with my '717
    > will last just as long; So far the batteries last about a 5-7 days
    > before needing a recharge in the '717 ......
    >
    > --
    > mlvburke@#%&*.net.nz
    > Replace the obvious with paradise to email me.
    > See Found Images at:
    > http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke
     
    JK, Aug 21, 2003
    #10
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