Re: [SI] On The Road is up /COMMENTS

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Robert Coe, Aug 22, 2012.

  1. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:07:42 -0400, SI Committee
    <> wrote:
    :
    : http://www.pbase.com/shootin/the_road

    Lazardo 2
    A little too self-consciously cute for my taste, but I'm sure some will see
    merit in it.

    Lazardo
    The foreground colors don't jibe with the rest of the picture. If that's snow
    on the mountains, I'd lose the yellow cast.

    Lazardo 3
    A nice picture, but one we've seen many times before. It needs at least an
    airplane flying by. (We've seen that many times too, of course, but maybe not
    quite as often.)

    Tim Conway 1
    The picture is well executed (although I think it may lean slightly to the
    right). But the skylines of small American cities are usually boring, and this
    one is hardly an exception.

    Stick 1
    Who is Stick? I can't even place him by his camera; who even knew there was
    such a thing as a D80? But this is a very elegant picture. My only criticism
    is the shadow blob in the driveway.

    Eric Stevens 1
    Another winner. The tiny spots of light (dew drops?) are a bit confusing, but
    contribute to the effect. Even the light poles are incorporated nicely.

    Eric Stevens 2
    The picture leans left a little, but the colors and composition work well.

    Eric Stevens 3
    People pouring out of a subway station. OK, but it's a confused scene with no
    center of attention. And cropping so as to cut someone in half ought to be
    avoided.

    Alan Browne 1
    A bit static, but I like it because I've taken several very similar pictures
    myself.

    Alan Browne 2
    Sort of a dopey shot, but it works because its technically correct and the
    composition is impeccable. The connection with the mandate escapes me, though.

    Alan Browne 3
    If that's falling water and not some old lady's hair, then it's by far the
    most artistic use of the slow-shutter effect, recently panned by Rich A and
    me, that I've ever seen. I still think it's a cliché; but if you're going to
    use the technique, this picture illustrates how to do it right.

    Bowser 1
    Yeah. it's on the road, but a trifle boring. Didn't the Pan-Mass get
    discredited a few years ago, when the ringleader was accused of profiteering
    and self-promotion?

    Bowser 2
    I like the colors a lot. Even the gray (non-Siskerized) sky works well,
    although its presence on such a sunny day is puzzling. My one criticism is
    that the left edge is overly abrupt. It might be nice to see a bit more of how
    the road reaches the valley.

    Bowser 3
    Very nice. The B&W works very well. Even the noise contributes positively.

    Savage Duck 1
    Not a very good advertisement of the California countryside. Too hazy, too
    many wires, and no discernible center of interest. Somebody already said the
    Duck can do better, which we all know.

    Savage Duck 2
    Also too hazy, but a much better composition. In our area, we'd be gawking at
    sharks.

    Savage Duck 3
    Nicely done. <Quack!>

    Tony Cooper - Armadillo
    I feel sorry for Mr Roadkill, but I guess hawks and buzzards gotta eat too.
    The top half of the picture is just too OOF.

    Tony Cooper - Smokies
    Ho (and also Hum). I think this one was better left on the road. (That's not
    "street" photography, is it, Floyd?)

    Tony Cooper - Wide
    In focus, meets the mandate; what more do you want? No, [I forget who asked],
    the car is not crowding the bike off the road.

    Cleary Cooper - Bikes
    If anybody has any doubts that Tony's daughter is a talented photographer, her
    three pictures should dispel them. Note the careful control of DOF in this
    one.

    Cleary - Junker
    A bit of a cliché, but well executed.

    Cleary - Viagra in Sand
    Others have dumped on this picture, but I find it pretty funny. Lighten up,
    guys.

    Me 1, 2, 3
    I'll let others comment and limit myself to petulant responses. The madate was
    so vast that I thought I might as well interpret it super-literally. ;^)

    Martha 1, 2, 3
    Same as for me.

    Frank S 1
    Not as striking as Bowser's similar entry, but very viewable nonetheless.

    Frank S 2
    This one doesn't work for me. The only interesting element is the shadow of
    Frank's hand holding the picture. (Maybe that was the point? it isn't enough.)

    Frank S 3
    Good composition, needs more contrast. No, he's not in a race; do those cars
    ahead look like racing cars? Tracks let the yokelry in to drive around when
    nothing else is going on.

    Otter 1
    This is a nice enough scene, with the lighting at dusk, etc. But the post
    office looks like it's sliding off the hill. There may be some wide-angle
    distortion muddying things, but I have to think the picture could stand at
    least a full degree of counter-clockwise rotation.

    Otter 2
    A bit weird, but effective. B&W helps marginally, I guess.

    Otter 3
    I'd accept something like this if it were carefully composed, but this is just
    a jumble.

    Dan Petre 1
    The OOF is so grossly overdone that the picture looks like a cull.

    Dan Petre 2
    My wife says a dull, monochromatic picture needs a spot of red. Dan must have
    heard that too.

    Dan Petre 3
    Good color, composition, and technique rescue it from cliché status.

    K Petre 1
    Very well executed landscape. Everything in its place.

    K Petre 2
    Not the equal of the previous shot, but good.

    K Petre 3
    The dull light works well. A good example of playing the cards you're dealt.

    Peter Newman RailRoad
    Sorry, Peter; the oversaturated look doesn't compensate for the fact that
    there's no center of attention.

    Peter Newman SailRoad
    This one is carried by its composition, in spite of (and not, I think, because
    of) the noise and oversharpened look.

    Peter Newman - Street Rd
    I guess this is a failed attempt at a Cooperesque street photograph. It's
    poorly cropped; the busy background is too sharp; and the kitschy treatment of
    the colors (involving some real effort, probably) deprives the buggy of the
    one thing ALL Amish buggies have in common: a bright red or orange triangular
    reflector. Finally, the scowls of the subjects are a forceful reminder of the
    Amish aversion to being photographed. It's almost embarrassing enough that
    you're glad they're out of focus.

    Paul Furman
    The murky haze doesn't help. I'm not sure this is a keeper.

    A nice group of shots, Who says the Shoot-In is floundering? (Well, that
    recently arrived nut case, but I hope nobody listens to him.)

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Aug 22, 2012
    #1
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  2. Robert Coe

    otter Guest

    Re: On The Road is up /COMMENTS

    On Aug 21, 10:22 pm, Robert Coe <> wrote:
    >
    > Otter 1
    > This is a nice enough scene, with the lighting at dusk, etc. But the post
    > office looks like it's sliding off the hill. There may be some wide-angle
    > distortion muddying things, but I have to think the picture could stand at
    > least a full degree of counter-clockwise rotation.


    Yeah, you are right. I didn't check that.

    >
    > Otter 2
    > A bit weird, but effective. B&W helps marginally, I guess.


    I wasn't happy with the color version, but I may play around with
    doing selective color. But probably not.
     
    otter, Aug 22, 2012
    #2
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  3. Robert Coe

    tony cooper Guest

    Re: On The Road is up /COMMENTS

    On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 20:49:31 -0700 (PDT), otter
    <> wrote:

    >On Aug 21, 10:22 pm, Robert Coe <> wrote:
    >>
    >> Otter 2
    >> A bit weird, but effective. B&W helps marginally, I guess.

    >
    >I wasn't happy with the color version, but I may play around with
    >doing selective color. But probably not.


    No! Nooooooooooo! Resist!

    That's a beautifully processed black and white. People think black
    and white is something that only works if the blacks are 255 and the
    whites are 0 and there's strong contrast. That's one way to process
    black and white, but only one way. In most cases, it's the best way.

    However, this variation - when it works as it does here - can be very
    effective. That glow in the overhang and in the entrance way
    emphasize the lighting of the scene. The lighting is *in* the scene,
    not *on* the scene.

    Compositionally, I like the angle created by the curb diagonal going
    down at the left corner. I like the inclusion of the figures, and
    even forgive that the woman looks like she has a bag over her head.

    Leave it alone.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Aug 22, 2012
    #3
  4. Robert Coe

    tony cooper Guest

    On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:22:00 -0400, Robert Coe <> wrote:

    >Peter Newman - Street Rd
    >I guess this is a failed attempt at a Cooperesque street photograph. It's
    >poorly cropped; the busy background is too sharp; and the kitschy treatment of
    >the colors (involving some real effort, probably) deprives the buggy of the
    >one thing ALL Amish buggies have in common: a bright red or orange triangular
    >reflector. Finally, the scowls of the subjects are a forceful reminder of the
    >Amish aversion to being photographed. It's almost embarrassing enough that
    >you're glad they're out of focus.


    Good point. I didn't notice that the reflector had been desaturated.
    I got hung up on the posterizing of the faces.

    Somewhere, I have a disappointing photograph of a Maasai that I took
    in Masai Mara in Kenya. He's complete with red tunic, spear in hand,
    and one leg up like a stork's. It's spoiled by the idiotic grin on
    his face. I wanted fierce, or a least a frown.

    The Maasai won't allow photographs of them. Not until you pay them,
    anyway. (5 shillings, which was then 30 cents US) I know now the
    trick is to take photograph when they're scowling because you haven't
    offered the money, and pay them later.

    I don't think plain people take money like that, though.



    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Aug 22, 2012
    #4
  5. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:22:00 -0400, I <> wrote:
    : On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:07:42 -0400, SI Committee
    : <> wrote:
    : :
    : Frank S 2
    : This one doesn't work for me. The only interesting element is the shadow of
    : Frank's hand holding the picture. (Maybe that was the point? it isn't enough.)

    I meant, of course, to say "holding the CAMERA". It was late, and I was tired
    .... :^|

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Aug 23, 2012
    #5
  6. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 12:53:00 -0400, Bowser <> wrote:
    : On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:22:00 -0400, Robert Coe <> wrote:
    :
    : >Bowser 1
    : >Yeah. it's on the road, but a trifle boring. Didn't the Pan-Mass get
    : >discredited a few years ago, when the ringleader was accused of
    : >profiteering and self-promotion?
    :
    : Uh...no. Nothing like that has ever happened in the PMC. It's very
    : legit. And 100% of the donations go directly to the Dana Farber
    : center, and never enter any other bank account. No chance for fraud,
    : really.

    Well, yes, something like that did happen (in 2003, I believe), although it
    takes a pretty relentless Google search to learn much about it. Most of what's
    available is the PMC's indignant replies to the accusations. My impression is
    that nothing illegal took place and that one's opinion on the merits of the
    case depends on one's attitude towards non-profits and feelings about what
    constitutes reasonable compensation of their leaders.

    What I know for sure is that one of my friends, who's an avid bike rider and a
    former staunch supporter of the PMC, was sufficiently upset that he took a
    hiatus of at least a year or two from riding in the event.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Aug 23, 2012
    #6
  7. Robert Coe

    otter Guest

    Re: On The Road is up /COMMENTS

    On Aug 22, 7:38 pm, Robert Coe <> wrote:
    > On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:22:00 -0400, I <> wrote:
    >
    > : On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:07:42 -0400, SI Committee: <> wrote:
    >
    > : :
    > : Frank S 2
    > : This one doesn't work for me. The only interesting element is the shadow of
    > : Frank's hand holding the picture. (Maybe that was the point? it isn't enough.)
    >
    > I meant, of course, to say "holding the CAMERA". It was late, and I was tired
    > ...  :^|


    I believe Frank was trying a little humor with that picture...
     
    otter, Aug 23, 2012
    #7
  8. Robert Coe

    otter Guest

    Re: On The Road is up /COMMENTS

    On Aug 22, 10:48 pm, "Frank S" <> wrote:
    > "otter" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Aug 22, 7:38 pm, Robert Coe <> wrote:
    > >> On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:22:00 -0400, I <> wrote:

    >
    > >> : On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:07:42 -0400, SI Committee:
    > >> <> wrote:

    >
    > >> : :
    > >> : Frank S 2
    > >> : This one doesn't work for me. The only interesting element is the
    > >> shadow of
    > >> : Frank's hand holding the picture. (Maybe that was the point? it isn't
    > >> enough.)

    >
    > >> I meant, of course, to say "holding the CAMERA". It was late, and I was
    > >> tired
    > >> ...  :^|

    >
    > > I believe Frank was trying a little humor with that picture...

    >
    > Well, now, the picture was made in all seriousness. Presenting it where some
    > old, late, tired greftneag could see it was humor-intended. To quote the
    > photographer: "...sort of a
    > self-portrait".


    LOL @ greftneag.
     
    otter, Aug 23, 2012
    #8
  9. Robert Coe

    PeterN Guest

    On 8/22/2012 1:16 AM, tony cooper wrote:
    > On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:22:00 -0400, Robert Coe <> wrote:
    >
    >> Peter Newman - Street Rd
    >> I guess this is a failed attempt at a Cooperesque street photograph. It's
    >> poorly cropped; the busy background is too sharp; and the kitschy treatment of
    >> the colors (involving some real effort, probably) deprives the buggy of the
    >> one thing ALL Amish buggies have in common: a bright red or orange triangular
    >> reflector. Finally, the scowls of the subjects are a forceful reminder of the
    >> Amish aversion to being photographed. It's almost embarrassing enough that
    >> you're glad they're out of focus.

    >
    > Good point. I didn't notice that the reflector had been desaturated.
    > I got hung up on the posterizing of the faces.
    >


    Desaturation <> BW conversion.

    there was no desaturation. A selected portion of the image was converted
    to monochrome because the red triangles detracted from the point of the
    image, the expressions of the children.



    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, Aug 25, 2012
    #9
  10. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 16:30:03 -0400, Bowser <> wrote:
    : On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 22:33:58 -0400, Robert Coe <> wrote:
    :
    : >On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 12:53:00 -0400, Bowser <> wrote:
    : >: On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:22:00 -0400, Robert Coe <> wrote:
    : >:
    : >: >Bowser 1
    : >: >Yeah. it's on the road, but a trifle boring. Didn't the Pan-Mass get
    : >: >discredited a few years ago, when the ringleader was accused of
    : >: >profiteering and self-promotion?
    : >:
    : >: Uh...no. Nothing like that has ever happened in the PMC. It's very
    : >: legit. And 100% of the donations go directly to the Dana Farber
    : >: center, and never enter any other bank account. No chance for fraud,
    : >: really.
    : >
    : >Well, yes, something like that did happen (in 2003, I believe), although it
    : >takes a pretty relentless Google search to learn much about it. Most of what's
    : >available is the PMC's indignant replies to the accusations. My impression is
    : >that nothing illegal took place and that one's opinion on the merits of the
    : >case depends on one's attitude towards non-profits and feelings about what
    : >constitutes reasonable compensation of their leaders.
    : >
    : >What I know for sure is that one of my friends, who's an avid bike rider and a
    : >former staunch supporter of the PMC, was sufficiently upset that he took a
    : >hiatus of at least a year or two from riding in the event.
    : >
    :
    : Do you have a link for that? I'm pretty curious, and tried to search
    : for something, anythying, but came up empty.

    As I said, it's a hard nut to crack. But you might try this as a starting
    point:
    http://www.pmc.org/articles.asp?ArticleID=164&Tab=Calendar

    Sorry to take so long to get back to you. My wife and I have been away for a
    few days for a photo shoot in Acadia National Park. :^)

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Aug 27, 2012
    #10
  11. On 8/26/2012 7:07 PM, Robert Coe wrote:

    > As I said, it's a hard nut to crack. But you might try this as a starting
    > point:
    > http://www.pmc.org/articles.asp?ArticleID=164&Tab=Calendar
    >


    I read that piece. I have NO IDEA what is going on. I have no idea
    who is right, who is wrong, and who is misleading.

    I merely read the piece carefully to see if there was a loophole
    in the spin (if indeed that's what it is).

    And indeed there is a big glaring set of weasel words
    about how funds are dispersed. Can you find it? If you can ...
    do you know the "overall" number?

    Doug McDonald
     
    Doug McDonald, Aug 27, 2012
    #11
  12. Robert Coe

    tony cooper Guest

    On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 17:30:15 -0400, Bowser <> wrote:

    >Bottom line is that unless you work for the PMC and actually handle
    >the funds you don't really know. But this organization has been
    >scrutinized so often and so much I have to believe it's above board.
    >The money goes to the Jimmy Fund, directly. Rider pay to ride, and the
    >accounting is kept separate, and is audited annually by a third party.
    >I guess I trust them more than I trust any religious organization.


    That is not a particularly strong endorsement of trust.
    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Aug 27, 2012
    #12
  13. Robert Coe

    PeterN Guest

    On 8/26/2012 8:07 PM, Robert Coe wrote:
    > On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 16:30:03 -0400, Bowser <> wrote:
    > : On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 22:33:58 -0400, Robert Coe <> wrote:
    > :
    > : >On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 12:53:00 -0400, Bowser <> wrote:
    > : >: On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 23:22:00 -0400, Robert Coe <> wrote:
    > : >:
    > : >: >Bowser 1
    > : >: >Yeah. it's on the road, but a trifle boring. Didn't the Pan-Mass get
    > : >: >discredited a few years ago, when the ringleader was accused of
    > : >: >profiteering and self-promotion?
    > : >:
    > : >: Uh...no. Nothing like that has ever happened in the PMC. It's very
    > : >: legit. And 100% of the donations go directly to the Dana Farber
    > : >: center, and never enter any other bank account. No chance for fraud,
    > : >: really.
    > : >
    > : >Well, yes, something like that did happen (in 2003, I believe), although it
    > : >takes a pretty relentless Google search to learn much about it. Most of what's
    > : >available is the PMC's indignant replies to the accusations. My impression is
    > : >that nothing illegal took place and that one's opinion on the merits of the
    > : >case depends on one's attitude towards non-profits and feelings about what
    > : >constitutes reasonable compensation of their leaders.
    > : >
    > : >What I know for sure is that one of my friends, who's an avid bike rider and a
    > : >former staunch supporter of the PMC, was sufficiently upset that he took a
    > : >hiatus of at least a year or two from riding in the event.
    > : >
    > :
    > : Do you have a link for that? I'm pretty curious, and tried to search
    > : for something, anythying, but came up empty.
    >
    > As I said, it's a hard nut to crack. But you might try this as a starting
    > point:
    > http://www.pmc.org/articles.asp?ArticleID=164&Tab=Calendar
    >
    > Sorry to take so long to get back to you. My wife and I have been away for a
    > few days for a photo shoot in Acadia National Park. :^)
    >
    > Bob
    >


    One of my favorite places.
    How did you like it?
    P;ease post images.

    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, Aug 28, 2012
    #13
  14. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 17:30:15 -0400, Bowser <> wrote:
    : On Sun, 26 Aug 2012 19:37:54 -0500, Doug McDonald
    : <> wrote:
    :
    : >On 8/26/2012 7:07 PM, Robert Coe wrote:
    : >
    : >> As I said, it's a hard nut to crack. But you might try this as a starting
    : >> point:
    : >> http://www.pmc.org/articles.asp?ArticleID=164&Tab=Calendar
    : >>
    : >
    : >I read that piece. I have NO IDEA what is going on. I have no idea
    : >who is right, who is wrong, and who is misleading.
    : >
    : >I merely read the piece carefully to see if there was a loophole
    : >in the spin (if indeed that's what it is).
    : >
    : >And indeed there is a big glaring set of weasel words
    : >about how funds are dispersed. Can you find it? If you can ...
    : >do you know the "overall" number?
    :
    : Bottom line is that unless you work for the PMC and actually handle
    : the funds you don't really know. But this organization has been
    : scrutinized so often and so much I have to believe it's above board.
    : The money goes to the Jimmy Fund, directly. Rider pay to ride, and the
    : accounting is kept separate, and is audited annually by a third party.
    : I guess I trust them more than I trust any religious organization.

    From what I've been able to piece together, it appears that what you say is
    literally true: the money raised by the riders goes straight to the Jimmy
    Fund. But there's another large pot of money paid by companies to be sponsors
    of the race, and that money doesn't all go to the JF. Some amount of it (by
    most reckoning, at least $500,000 and possibly $1,000,000 or more) goes to the
    founder's management company and compensates him handsomely. The accounting is
    carefully done, and there's nothing illegal AFAIK; but some apparently think
    it unseemly that the founder does so well.

    Note that I have no dog in this hunt. I've never ridden in the race nor
    contributed to it. So I have no opinion regarding how the money is allocated
    or whether the founder is overpaid.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Aug 28, 2012
    #14
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