Re: [SI] New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Robert Coe, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. Robert Coe

    tony cooper Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 00:27:37 -0500, LOL! <> wrote:

    >On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 00:16:37 -0400, tony cooper
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 23:01:58 -0500, Bill T. <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Where's YOUR photography? I've uploaded and posted no less than 20 photos
    >>>this month to prove fools like you dead-wrong, each and every time.

    >>
    >>All with questionable provenance. All with the built-in excuse of
    >>being deliberately degraded.

    >
    >Until you have to file lawsuits against image thieving trolls like Vance
    >due to the photography excellence you have NO ROOM to make any comments
    >about how they are presented.
    >

    I've seen no indication that any of your shots would tempt anyone to
    steal them. Besides, don't photos degrade each time they are stolen?
    Yours have already been degraded.

    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jul 8, 2010
    #41
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  2. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:04:57 -0700, MothboyHunter
    <> wrote:
    : In article <>,
    : Robert Coe <> wrote:
    :
    : > On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:53:48 -0500, Bill T. <> wrote:
    :
    :
    : > :
    : > : I don't understand all this whining. When I am teaching an apprentice I
    : > : give them a little contest and exercise. Using this simple challenge
    : > : several times during their learning experience to see how they are
    : > : progressing. I will point out (for example) that tree, that rock, that
    : > : fence-post, that weed. Then say, "Okay, you and I both have 5 minutes to
    : > : find a printable image somewhere within those boundaries. GO!"
    : > :
    : > : It's never a challenge to find a subject worth printing. It's just a
    : > : challenge to see if you can find something better than the other guy. When
    : > : I can be outdone by my apprentice then I know I've taught well. It pisses
    : > : me off to no end when outdone by them, but also proud of and pleased they
    : > : are now doing so well--they finally "get it!"
    : >
    : > In a similar vein, I believe that the way to teach cropping is to assign the
    : > student to find the best picture possible in every image (s)he shoots. Once
    : > you've learned to make a bad picture mediocre, it's a lot easier to make a
    : > good picture better.
    : >
    : > Bob
    :
    : Bob, you did understand that "Bill T." is none other than yet another
    : sock of the resident P&S troll, didn't you?
    : He is posing as the professor of all that is photography, and he is not
    : worth wasting your time on. The likelihood that he has ever had an
    : "apprentice" of any type is slim to nothing.
    : As far as him being any kind of educator, perish the thought.

    That's OK; I'm not an educator either. If the Troll writes something that
    seems coherent, I'll answer it in that vein. If he posts an insane rant, I'll
    call him on it or ignore it altogether, as I have on many occasions.

    I believe (to the extent of my knowledge; I'm not a psychiarist either) that
    the Troll is clinically insane. And I meant it when I said (probably in some
    other thread) that I feel sorry for his parents. My two children are
    productive, well-adjusted members of society who are raising five smart,
    happy, good-looking, outgoing, lovable grandchildren for my wife and me. The
    Troll's parents have apparently experienced a different outcome. I'll never
    meet them, but I wish them well.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jul 9, 2010
    #42
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  3. Robert Coe

    Peter Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    news:p...

    >
    > In a similar vein, I believe that the way to teach cropping is to assign
    > the
    > student to find the best picture possible in every image (s)he shoots.
    > Once
    > you've learned to make a bad picture mediocre, it's a lot easier to make a
    > good picture better.
    >


    And all to often a potentially good picture is thereby rendered mediocre
    through improper cropping.
    I think that you must have some type of eye to crop artfully. I can show you
    what others have done, but the final product has to come from within. I
    might like tight crops, other's might prefer loose crops.
    If I insist that you crop only like me, that will only teach you my
    standard. It will probably not bring out your innate ability.
    IOW I have problems with teaching cropping one on one. Multiple opinions are
    needed and then the artist must select, after giving due deference to the
    outside comments.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 9, 2010
    #43
  4. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 21:20:12 -0400, "Peter" <>
    wrote:
    : "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    : news:p...
    :
    : >
    : > In a similar vein, I believe that the way to teach cropping is to assign
    : > the
    : > student to find the best picture possible in every image (s)he shoots.
    : > Once
    : > you've learned to make a bad picture mediocre, it's a lot easier to make a
    : > good picture better.
    : >
    :
    : And all to often a potentially good picture is thereby rendered mediocre
    : through improper cropping.
    : I think that you must have some type of eye to crop artfully. I can show you
    : what others have done, but the final product has to come from within. I
    : might like tight crops, other's might prefer loose crops.
    : If I insist that you crop only like me, that will only teach you my
    : standard. It will probably not bring out your innate ability.
    : IOW I have problems with teaching cropping one on one. Multiple opinions are
    : needed and then the artist must select, after giving due deference to the
    : outside comments.

    If you're saying that good cropping technique can't be taught, I don't agree.

    If you're sqying it can't (or shouldn't) be taught because the teacher will
    force his opinions on the student, you're implying that all teachers are bad.
    A good teacher won't do that.

    And someone in an elementary photography class is not yet an "artist". A
    photographer who doesn't know how to crop is like a painter who doesn't know
    how to control a brush. The latter isn't an "artist" either.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jul 9, 2010
    #44
  5. Robert Coe

    Peter Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 21:20:12 -0400, "Peter" <>
    > wrote:
    > : "Robert Coe" <> wrote in message
    > : news:p...
    > :
    > : >
    > : > In a similar vein, I believe that the way to teach cropping is to
    > assign
    > : > the
    > : > student to find the best picture possible in every image (s)he shoots.
    > : > Once
    > : > you've learned to make a bad picture mediocre, it's a lot easier to
    > make a
    > : > good picture better.
    > : >
    > :
    > : And all to often a potentially good picture is thereby rendered mediocre
    > : through improper cropping.
    > : I think that you must have some type of eye to crop artfully. I can show
    > you
    > : what others have done, but the final product has to come from within. I
    > : might like tight crops, other's might prefer loose crops.
    > : If I insist that you crop only like me, that will only teach you my
    > : standard. It will probably not bring out your innate ability.
    > : IOW I have problems with teaching cropping one on one. Multiple opinions
    > are
    > : needed and then the artist must select, after giving due deference to
    > the
    > : outside comments.
    >
    > If you're saying that good cropping technique can't be taught, I don't
    > agree.


    What I am saying is that cropping is a part of seeing. A good teacher can
    show how to see, but not what to see.

    >
    > If you're sqying it can't (or shouldn't) be taught because the teacher
    > will
    > force his opinions on the student, you're implying that all teachers are
    > bad.
    > A good teacher won't do that.
    >


    I agree. but go further. A good teacher will try to guard against
    inadvertant imposition of views. But, that is almost impossible to do.
    That's why the novice sould seek out several opinions on how to see, prior
    to developing his own style.



    > And someone in an elementary photography class is not yet an "artist". A
    > photographer who doesn't know how to crop is like a painter who doesn't
    > know
    > how to control a brush. The latter isn't an "artist" either.


    I think that goes too far.

    BTW are you going to the NECC at Amherst next weekend. I will be there with
    a few of the guys from my club and my wife. It's an interesting series of
    lectures.



    http://www.neccc.org/

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 9, 2010
    #45
  6. Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    Robert Coe wrote:
    > On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:04:57 -0700, MothboyHunter


    > : Bob, you did understand that "Bill T." is none other than yet another
    > : sock of the resident P&S troll, didn't you?
    > : He is posing as the professor of all that is photography, and he is not
    > : worth wasting your time on. The likelihood that he has ever had an
    > : "apprentice" of any type is slim to nothing.
    > : As far as him being any kind of educator, perish the thought.



    > That's OK; I'm not an educator either. If the Troll writes something that
    > seems coherent, I'll answer it in that vein. If he posts an insane rant, I'll
    > call him on it or ignore it altogether, as I have on many occasions.


    The latter is far preferable for the sanity of the rest of us. Please do
    ignore whenever possible!

    And, I submit, our resident does not deserver the title of troll, much
    less Troll. He's simply a pest of extreme virulence. I've seldom seen
    such anger last for so long.

    --
    john mcwilliams
     
    John McWilliams, Jul 9, 2010
    #46
  7. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 08:45:01 -0700, John McWilliams <> wrote:
    : Robert Coe wrote:
    : > On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:04:57 -0700, MothboyHunter
    :
    : > : Bob, you did understand that "Bill T." is none other than yet another
    : > : sock of the resident P&S troll, didn't you?
    : > : He is posing as the professor of all that is photography, and he is not
    : > : worth wasting your time on. The likelihood that he has ever had an
    : > : "apprentice" of any type is slim to nothing.
    : > : As far as him being any kind of educator, perish the thought.
    :
    : > That's OK; I'm not an educator either. If the Troll writes something that
    : > seems coherent, I'll answer it in that vein. If he posts an insane rant,
    : > I'll call him on it or ignore it altogether, as I have on many occasions.
    :
    : The latter is far preferable for the sanity of the rest of us. Please do
    : ignore whenever possible!

    And yet there's no evidence that ignoring him does any good. He responds
    equally and similarly to almost any post, whether it's to or about him or not.

    : And, I submit, our resident does not deserver the title of troll, much
    : less Troll. He's simply a pest of extreme virulence. I've seldom seen
    : such anger last for so long.

    Which is why I think he's insane, not malevolent.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jul 10, 2010
    #47
  8. Robert Coe

    LOL! Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 08:45:01 -0700, John McWilliams <>
    wrote:

    >Robert Coe wrote:
    >> On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:04:57 -0700, MothboyHunter

    >
    >> : Bob, you did understand that "Bill T." is none other than yet another
    >> : sock of the resident P&S troll, didn't you?
    >> : He is posing as the professor of all that is photography, and he is not
    >> : worth wasting your time on. The likelihood that he has ever had an
    >> : "apprentice" of any type is slim to nothing.
    >> : As far as him being any kind of educator, perish the thought.

    >
    >
    >> That's OK; I'm not an educator either. If the Troll writes something that
    >> seems coherent, I'll answer it in that vein. If he posts an insane rant, I'll
    >> call him on it or ignore it altogether, as I have on many occasions.

    >
    >The latter is far preferable for the sanity of the rest of us. Please do
    >ignore whenever possible!
    >
    >And, I submit, our resident does not deserver the title of troll, much
    >less Troll. He's simply a pest of extreme virulence. I've seldom seen
    >such anger last for so long.


    Oh **** of such little comprehension. It is not "anger" that you detect.
    But complete contempt for fools and intellectually challenged morons that
    seem insistent to perpetuate their misinformation and stupidity as if they
    are somehow redeeming values for any subject with which they try to engage.

    If it was permissible (legal or not), I'd take the nearest gun and blow you
    off the face of the earth to try to rid the human gene-pool of stupidity as
    great as yours. This is probably 99.9999% of the population.

    Now don't you feel privileged to be of the, under 160 IQ, majority?

    LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    LOL!, Jul 10, 2010
    #48
  9. Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    LOL! wrote:

    >
    > Oh **** of such little comprehension. It is not "anger" that you detect.


    > If it was permissible (legal or not), I'd take the nearest gun and blow you
    > off the face of the earth to try to rid the human gene-pool of stupidity as
    > great as yours.


    Not angry, huh?

    Foam on, but, really, I do not revel in your unhappiness. I don't like
    your unpleasantness in the ng, your unrelenting vitriol spewing on any
    possible target, but I'd much rather you find some peace and happiness.

    Good luck.

    --
    lsmft
     
    John McWilliams, Jul 10, 2010
    #49
  10. Robert Coe

    Peter Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    "John McWilliams" <> wrote in message
    news:i195mp$l46$-september.org...
    > LOL! wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Oh **** of such little comprehension. It is not "anger" that you detect.

    >
    >> If it was permissible (legal or not), I'd take the nearest gun and blow
    >> you
    >> off the face of the earth to try to rid the human gene-pool of stupidity
    >> as
    >> great as yours.

    >
    > Not angry, huh?
    >
    > Foam on, but, really, I do not revel in your unhappiness. I don't like
    > your unpleasantness in the ng, your unrelenting vitriol spewing on any
    > possible target, but I'd much rather you find some peace and happiness.
    >



    Perhaps this is appropriate:
    http://www.brown.edu/Facilities/University_Library/exhibits/RLCexhibit/shes/songms.html



    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 10, 2010
    #50
  11. Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    Peter wrote:
    > "John McWilliams" <> wrote in message
    > news:i195mp$l46$-september.org...
    >> LOL! wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Oh **** of such little comprehension. It is not "anger" that you detect.

    >>
    >>> If it was permissible (legal or not), I'd take the nearest gun and
    >>> blow you
    >>> off the face of the earth to try to rid the human gene-pool of
    >>> stupidity as
    >>> great as yours.

    >>
    >> Not angry, huh?
    >>
    >> Foam on, but, really, I do not revel in your unhappiness. I don't like
    >> your unpleasantness in the ng, your unrelenting vitriol spewing on any
    >> possible target, but I'd much rather you find some peace and happiness.
    >>

    >
    >
    > Perhaps this is appropriate:
    > http://www.brown.edu/Facilities/University_Library/exhibits/RLCexhibit/shes/songms.html


    Hmm. Well, that's been around for over a C.!

    However, for all I hope for our pest, I cannot pity someone who inflicts
    his will on others.

    --
    john mcwilliams
     
    John McWilliams, Jul 10, 2010
    #51
  12. Robert Coe

    zulu Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    > I guess not. Must have been my imagination. Oh well ....

    Maybe it was LOL! Outing Trolls is FUN! Better Info Truman troll
    person?
     
    zulu, Jul 19, 2010
    #52
  13. Robert Coe

    zulu Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    > Vitriol? You talk about vitriol and you don't see how much of the blatant
    > and ignorant vitriol is being spewed about compact and smaller sensored
    > cameras?


    did LOL! Outing Trolls is FUN! Better Info Truman get abused by small
    sensor camera when growing up? you sure do hate them bad. aw poor LOL!
    Outing Trolls is FUN! Better Info Truman its so sad

    > No bout adout it. You'd be in the cross-hairs, first in line. How nature
    > ever allowed your genetic lineage of stupidity to survive this long is
    > beyond me. Maybe it's just a test to see whichever one is smarter than you
    > will be the first to do you in as simple target-practice.


    do you have happy tree friends in your make believe world? they fun,
    not like you. you waste of biological material, god could of made more
    sea slugs instead and world be much better place
     
    zulu, Jul 19, 2010
    #53
  14. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:35:46 +0100, bugbear
    <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:
    : Robert Coe wrote:
    :
    : > :
    : > : Those are points of "interest", not random points. I think the point
    : > : of the mandate is to try to take interesting pictures at uninteresting
    : > : (random) locations.
    : >
    : > A few observations on that:
    : >
    : > - Some of those "points of interest" are not, in themselves, particularly
    : > interesting. The challenge is to go there and find a shot that makes the site
    : > as interesting as it can be. Whether the site was chosen at random or by some
    : > other method that's effectively beyond the photographer's control is not that
    : > relevant, arguably.
    :
    : Actually, going to a conventional "interesting location"
    : is probably limiting, since the "right photograph"
    : is so clearly defined.
    :
    : I've been to beauty spots where there are literally
    : "take your photo from here" plaques on the ground.
    :
    : If you were to do so, your photograph would
    : be very similar to the postcards on sale nearby.

    Thank you for taking the trouble to point that out. I submitted three
    pictures. There are no such markers at any of the locations, nor have I ever
    seen any of them on a postcard. If any of them resemble an existing postcard,
    it is coincidence.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jul 20, 2010
    #54
  15. Robert Coe

    John Turco Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    tony cooper wrote:

    <heavily edited for brevity>

    > If there is one area that I'd like to see given more attention it's
    > comments. Too often it is only a certain group of people that comment
    > on the photos. I'd like to see more people do that. If you submit
    > photos, then you should be willing to submit your comments on the work
    > of others. If you don't submit photos, then you can still offer
    > comments as long as they are not the "They're all crap" type of
    > comment we see from Vance and the man with a thousand names and no
    > credibility as a photographer.


    <edited>

    Uh, I'm fairly certain that you'd meant to state, "Bruce" (instead of
    "Vance"), above.

    --
    Cordially,
    John Turco <>

    Marie's Musings <http://fairiesandtails.blogspot.com>
     
    John Turco, Jul 20, 2010
    #55
  16. Robert Coe

    DanP Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Jul 10, 4:05 am, LOL! <> wrote:

    > Oh **** of such little comprehension. It is not "anger" that you detect.


    > If it was permissible (legal or not), I'd take the nearest gun and blow you


    So it is anger. All that frustration boiling under your collar, you
    cannot live among people, you have no friends.
    This BS you publish on the net is the only form of human interaction
    you can have.

    > off the face of the earth to try to rid the human gene-pool of stupidity as
    > great as yours. This is probably 99.9999% of the population.
    >
    > Now don't you feel privileged to be of the, under 160 IQ, majority?


    You are severely self deluded. Seek help.

    DanP
     
    DanP, Aug 4, 2010
    #56
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