Re: [SI] New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Robert Coe, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. Robert Coe

    otter Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Jul 6, 7:31 am, tony cooper <> wrote:
    > On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 23:47:13 -0700 (PDT), otter
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > <> wrote:
    > >On Jul 6, 12:46 am, Chris Malcolm <> wrote:
    > >> In rec.photo.digital otter <> wrote:

    >
    > >> > Those are points of "interest", not random points.  I think the point
    > >> > of the mandate is to try to take interesting pictures at uninteresting
    > >> > (random) locations.

    >
    > >> If the locations are truly random then some of them will be
    > >> interesting by lucky accident. Which would seem to be unfair to
    > >> unlucky photographers.

    >
    > >So, anything goes?

    >
    > >I have some interesting pictures (at least I think so) that I took
    > >over the weekend that were within 10 miles of my pin holes.  Can I use
    > >those?

    >
    > It's OK with me.  If you are comfortable with it, then I'm not going
    > to object.   A ten mile radius is perfectly acceptable to me if it
    > takes a ten mile radius for you to find an interesting subject.  
    >
    > What you have to decide is not what the "official" radius of the zone
    > is, but how challenged you want to be.  


    Nah, I'll try to get something at the locations. After all, that was
    the challenge.
     
    otter, Jul 6, 2010
    #21
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  2. Robert Coe

    Bill T. Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 06:19:22 -0700 (PDT), otter <>
    wrote:

    >On Jul 6, 7:31 am, tony cooper <> wrote:
    >> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 23:47:13 -0700 (PDT), otter
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> <> wrote:
    >> >On Jul 6, 12:46 am, Chris Malcolm <> wrote:
    >> >> In rec.photo.digital otter <> wrote:

    >>
    >> >> > Those are points of "interest", not random points.  I think the point
    >> >> > of the mandate is to try to take interesting pictures at uninteresting
    >> >> > (random) locations.

    >>
    >> >> If the locations are truly random then some of them will be
    >> >> interesting by lucky accident. Which would seem to be unfair to
    >> >> unlucky photographers.

    >>
    >> >So, anything goes?

    >>
    >> >I have some interesting pictures (at least I think so) that I took
    >> >over the weekend that were within 10 miles of my pin holes.  Can I use
    >> >those?

    >>
    >> It's OK with me.  If you are comfortable with it, then I'm not going
    >> to object.   A ten mile radius is perfectly acceptable to me if it
    >> takes a ten mile radius for you to find an interesting subject.  
    >>
    >> What you have to decide is not what the "official" radius of the zone
    >> is, but how challenged you want to be.  

    >
    >Nah, I'll try to get something at the locations. After all, that was
    >the challenge.


    I don't understand all this whining. When I am teaching an apprentice I
    give them a little contest and exercise. Using this simple challenge
    several times during their learning experience to see how they are
    progressing. I will point out (for example) that tree, that rock, that
    fence-post, that weed. Then say, "Okay, you and I both have 5 minutes to
    find a printable image somewhere within those boundaries. GO!"

    It's never a challenge to find a subject worth printing. It's just a
    challenge to see if you can find something better than the other guy. When
    I can be outdone by my apprentice then I know I've taught well. It pisses
    me off to no end when outdone by them, but also proud of and pleased they
    are now doing so well--they finally "get it!"
     
    Bill T., Jul 6, 2010
    #22
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  3. Robert Coe

    NGBarfart Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    In article <>,
    Bill T. <> wrote:

    > On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 06:19:22 -0700 (PDT), otter <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >On Jul 6, 7:31 am, tony cooper <> wrote:
    > >> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 23:47:13 -0700 (PDT), otter
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> <> wrote:
    > >> >On Jul 6, 12:46 am, Chris Malcolm <> wrote:
    > >> >> In rec.photo.digital otter <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >> > Those are points of "interest", not random points.  I think the point
    > >> >> > of the mandate is to try to take interesting pictures at uninteresting
    > >> >> > (random) locations.
    > >>
    > >> >> If the locations are truly random then some of them will be
    > >> >> interesting by lucky accident. Which would seem to be unfair to
    > >> >> unlucky photographers.
    > >>
    > >> >So, anything goes?
    > >>
    > >> >I have some interesting pictures (at least I think so) that I took
    > >> >over the weekend that were within 10 miles of my pin holes.  Can I use
    > >> >those?
    > >>
    > >> It's OK with me.  If you are comfortable with it, then I'm not going
    > >> to object.   A ten mile radius is perfectly acceptable to me if it
    > >> takes a ten mile radius for you to find an interesting subject.  
    > >>
    > >> What you have to decide is not what the "official" radius of the zone
    > >> is, but how challenged you want to be.  

    > >
    > >Nah, I'll try to get something at the locations. After all, that was
    > >the challenge.

    >
    > I don't understand all this whining. When I am teaching an apprentice I
    > giv.....


    You teaching! You with an apprentice!
    This is all very funny. The poor guy must be quite star struck once he
    leaves your shadow.

    --
    Just another troll tracker
     
    NGBarfart, Jul 7, 2010
    #23
  4. Robert Coe

    Peter Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 17:37:52 -0700 (PDT), otter
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Jul 5, 9:59 am, Robert Coe <> wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 06:35:57 -0700 (PDT), otter
    >>> <>
    >>> wrote:
    >>> : On Jul 5, 8:21 am, Robert Coe <> wrote:
    >>> : > On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 08:07:54 -0700, Paul Furman
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>> : > : Bowser wrote:
    >>> : >
    >>> : > : > First Rerun: The Pinhole Photo, Due July 18th, 2010
    >>> : > : > This is a looser rerun of the very first mandate, which requires
    >>> the
    >>> : > : > shooter to flip a map upside down, stick a pin in it, and then
    >>> grab a
    >>> : > : > shot at that location on the map. However, I've expanded the
    >>> mandate
    >>> : > : > to "your area," which can be town, city, state, etc. Use the
    >>> whole
    >>> : > : > earth, if you dare. Drive to Yosemite, stick a pin in a map of
    >>> the
    >>> : > : > park, and see if need to hike to the Diving Board. And, with the
    >>> new
    >>> : > : > rules about submissions, you can use three pins for three
    >>> locations
    >>> : > : > and submit three photos.
    >>> : > :
    >>> : > : Here's one way to choose your map pin spot:
    >>> : > :
    >>> : >
    >>> :http://irc.peeron.com/xkcd/map/map.html?date=2010-07-04&lat=37&long=-...
    >>> : > :
    >>> : > : explanation:
    >>> : > :http://wiki.xkcd.com/geohashing/Main_Page
    >>> : >
    >>> : > I've recently been assigned to photograph all the points of interest
    >>> in the
    >>> : > city for which I work. So I've been visiting a variety of locations,
    >>> some of
    >>> : > them pretty obscure, that I've never seen before. For me the
    >>> assignment
    >>> : > functions as the pin. ;^)
    >>> :
    >>> : That is a liberal interpretation of the mandate.
    >>> :
    >>> : Those are points of "interest", not random points. I think the point
    >>> : of the mandate is to try to take interesting pictures at uninteresting
    >>> : (random) locations.
    >>>
    >>> A few observations on that:
    >>>
    >>> - Some of those "points of interest" are not, in themselves,
    >>> particularly
    >>> interesting. The challenge is to go there and find a shot that makes the
    >>> site
    >>> as interesting as it can be. Whether the site was chosen at random or by
    >>> some
    >>> other method that's effectively beyond the photographer's control is not
    >>> that
    >>> relevant, arguably.
    >>>
    >>> - By their nature, SI mandates favor those in the group who are retired
    >>> or
    >>> otherwise blessed with a lot of free time over those of us who are not.
    >>> In my
    >>> case it's often find a way to incorporate the mandate into my normal
    >>> activities or sit this month out. And I have sat out several mandates
    >>> because
    >>> I simply didn't have the time to get involved in a type of photography
    >>> that I
    >>> normally don't do.
    >>>
    >>> - An overly narrow interpretation of the mandate lessens participation
    >>> and
    >>> reduces everyne's enjoyment of the process. I'd claim that the recent
    >>> Wallpaper mandate is a case in point. While some very nice pictures were
    >>> submitted, participation was much lower than I would have anticipated,
    >>> with
    >>> several highly competent regulars absent. I suspect that two factors
    >>> were
    >>> primarily to blame: (1) The required aspect ratio accommodated a screen
    >>> shape
    >>> that many of us rarely see, forcing us to omit or modify pictures that
    >>> we were
    >>> actually using as wallpapers; and (2) Several people had weighed in with
    >>> their
    >>> idiosyncratic opinions on what constituted a good (or even acceptable)
    >>> wallpaper, effectively narrowing the mandate and practically assuring
    >>> that
    >>> some entries would be dismissed or ridiculed for not meeting those
    >>> criteria.
    >>>
    >>> The Shoot-In's strength is its inclusiveness, and the point of a mandate
    >>> shouldn't be to exclude those who have trouble meeting it. Rather it
    >>> should be
    >>> to challenge participants to take a broader view of their photographic
    >>> horizons and to use the mandate to see their work in a different light.
    >>> I
    >>> think Bowser understands that and usually allows a broad interpretation
    >>> of the
    >>> mandates he issues. I believe the only time I've ever seen him reject a
    >>> picture was when it was too big.
    >>>
    >>> Bob

    >>
    >>I don't mean to be judgemental, but do you guys golf or fish? :)
    >>
    >>Since it is not any kind of real competition, I won't raise any more
    >>stink. But maybe people should indicate how closely they followed the
    >>rules when they submit.

    >
    > If you follow the comments after the Shoot-In is made available, many
    > people provide information about how they got the shot.
    >>
    >>As for someone saying the pin would have put them in a bad
    >>neighborhood, hey at least there might have been something interesting
    >>to shoot there. Better than the housing development or empty field
    >>that I ended up with. But maybe I should just keep sticking more
    >>pins.

    >
    > I made that comment. Most of what I shoot is candid "street"
    > photography. I do a lot of shooting in not-so-nice neighborhoods.
    >
    > However, there are neighborhoods where I'm not welcome. I know these
    > neighborhoods, and I know when not to be intrusive and when not to go
    > into an area where there might be trouble. I can get away with taking
    > candids in some situations, but it's not a good thing to walk into a
    > project and start snapping photos. The more people around, the more
    > likely it is that someone will object. When one person objects, the
    > crowd follows.
    >
    > This was taken not far from the pin, but in an area not so crowded. I
    > took prints of this picture to the two players a few days later, and
    > several other people wanted their photo taken. I'm now welcome in
    > this area.
    >
    > http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Sports/sports/Sports-Checkers-TonyCooper/717655592_edxmV-XL.jpg
    >



    You caught the intensity of the game and their characters seem to have come
    out.

    Once you gave away the print, you became accepted. By giving became viewed
    as a person who gives and not only takes. Smart thing to do..

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 7, 2010
    #24
  5. Robert Coe

    Peter Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    "otter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On Jul 5, 8:42 pm, Robert Coe <> wrote:
    > On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 17:37:52 -0700 (PDT), otter <>
    > wrote:
    > : I don't mean to be judgemental, but do you guys golf or fish? :)
    >
    > How would a serious photographer possibly have time to golf or fish? :^|
    >
    > : Since it is not any kind of real competition, I won't raise any more
    > : stink. But maybe people should indicate how closely they followed the
    > : rules when they submit.
    > :
    > : As for someone saying the pin would have put them in a bad
    > : neighborhood, hey at least there might have been something interesting
    > : to shoot there. Better than the housing development or empty field
    > : that I ended up with. But maybe I should just keep sticking more
    > : pins.
    >
    > In the empty field, get out your macro lens and shoot weeds. No, I'm
    > serious.
    > The Boston Globe did an article a few weeks ago on how biologists are
    > starting
    > to take an entirely different view of weeds, even some previously
    > considered
    > invasive, seeing them now as useful contributors to the ecology of a city.
    > This may be your chance to be in the forefront of a new trend! ;^)


    The empty lot does have the most potential. I don't have a macro
    lens, but maybe I'll take one of my dogs out there and photograph it.


    You don't need a macro lens. Most P&S cameras have a close focus mode. If
    you use a DSLR, try an extension tube to allow closer focusing.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 7, 2010
    #25
  6. Robert Coe

    Peter Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    "Chris Malcolm" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In rec.photo.digital otter <> wrote:
    >
    >> Those are points of "interest", not random points. I think the point
    >> of the mandate is to try to take interesting pictures at uninteresting
    >> (random) locations.

    >
    > If the locations are truly random then some of them will be
    > interesting by lucky accident. Which would seem to be unfair to
    > unlucky photographers.



    I think it's challenging and intriguing to try to find an interesting shot
    in a drab location. Besides, the prize is not so great that I worry about
    fairness.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 7, 2010
    #26
  7. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:53:48 -0500, Bill T. <> wrote:
    : On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 06:19:22 -0700 (PDT), otter <>
    : wrote:
    :
    : >On Jul 6, 7:31 am, tony cooper <> wrote:
    : >> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 23:47:13 -0700 (PDT), otter
    : >>
    : >>
    : >>
    : >>
    : >>
    : >> <> wrote:
    : >> >On Jul 6, 12:46 am, Chris Malcolm <> wrote:
    : >> >> In rec.photo.digital otter <> wrote:
    : >>
    : >> >> > Those are points of "interest", not random points.  I think the point
    : >> >> > of the mandate is to try to take interesting pictures at uninteresting
    : >> >> > (random) locations.
    : >>
    : >> >> If the locations are truly random then some of them will be
    : >> >> interesting by lucky accident. Which would seem to be unfair to
    : >> >> unlucky photographers.
    : >>
    : >> >So, anything goes?
    : >>
    : >> >I have some interesting pictures (at least I think so) that I took
    : >> >over the weekend that were within 10 miles of my pin holes.  Can I use
    : >> >those?
    : >>
    : >> It's OK with me.  If you are comfortable with it, then I'm not going
    : >> to object.   A ten mile radius is perfectly acceptable to me if it
    : >> takes a ten mile radius for you to find an interesting subject.  
    : >>
    : >> What you have to decide is not what the "official" radius of the zone
    : >> is, but how challenged you want to be.  
    : >
    : >Nah, I'll try to get something at the locations. After all, that was
    : >the challenge.
    :
    : I don't understand all this whining. When I am teaching an apprentice I
    : give them a little contest and exercise. Using this simple challenge
    : several times during their learning experience to see how they are
    : progressing. I will point out (for example) that tree, that rock, that
    : fence-post, that weed. Then say, "Okay, you and I both have 5 minutes to
    : find a printable image somewhere within those boundaries. GO!"
    :
    : It's never a challenge to find a subject worth printing. It's just a
    : challenge to see if you can find something better than the other guy. When
    : I can be outdone by my apprentice then I know I've taught well. It pisses
    : me off to no end when outdone by them, but also proud of and pleased they
    : are now doing so well--they finally "get it!"

    In a similar vein, I believe that the way to teach cropping is to assign the
    student to find the best picture possible in every image (s)he shoots. Once
    you've learned to make a bad picture mediocre, it's a lot easier to make a
    good picture better.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jul 8, 2010
    #27
  8. Robert Coe

    Robert Coe Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:36:13 -0700, NGBarfart <>
    wrote:
    : In article <>,
    : Bill T. <> wrote:
    :
    : > On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 06:19:22 -0700 (PDT), otter <>
    : > wrote:
    : >
    : > >On Jul 6, 7:31 am, tony cooper <> wrote:
    : > >> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 23:47:13 -0700 (PDT), otter
    : > >>
    : > >>
    : > >>
    : > >>
    : > >>
    : > >> <> wrote:
    : > >> >On Jul 6, 12:46 am, Chris Malcolm <> wrote:
    : > >> >> In rec.photo.digital otter <> wrote:
    : > >>
    : > >> >> > Those are points of "interest", not random points.  I think the point
    : > >> >> > of the mandate is to try to take interesting pictures at uninteresting
    : > >> >> > (random) locations.
    : > >>
    : > >> >> If the locations are truly random then some of them will be
    : > >> >> interesting by lucky accident. Which would seem to be unfair to
    : > >> >> unlucky photographers.
    : > >>
    : > >> >So, anything goes?
    : > >>
    : > >> >I have some interesting pictures (at least I think so) that I took
    : > >> >over the weekend that were within 10 miles of my pin holes.  Can I use
    : > >> >those?
    : > >>
    : > >> It's OK with me.  If you are comfortable with it, then I'm not going
    : > >> to object.   A ten mile radius is perfectly acceptable to me if it
    : > >> takes a ten mile radius for you to find an interesting subject.  
    : > >>
    : > >> What you have to decide is not what the "official" radius of the zone
    : > >> is, but how challenged you want to be.  
    : > >
    : > >Nah, I'll try to get something at the locations. After all, that was
    : > >the challenge.
    : >
    : > I don't understand all this whining. When I am teaching an apprentice I
    : > giv.....
    :
    : You teaching! You with an apprentice!
    : This is all very funny. The poor guy must be quite star struck once he
    : leaves your shadow.

    Think of it this way, Clyde: It's like when your headshrinker brings in a
    newly minted psychiatric resident to observe your lunatic gibberings.

    All kidding aside, what might give me nightmares, if my kids weren't already
    grown, is the thought of what it must be like to be your parents. And if I'm
    brutally honest, I guess it's what makes the best case for ignoring you,
    rather than ridiculing or arguing with you. If, as is certainly possible, your
    parents read what you send and receive, it must be painful for them to see
    what we say about you, as objectively justified as it may be.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jul 8, 2010
    #28
  9. Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    In article <>,
    Robert Coe <> wrote:

    > On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:53:48 -0500, Bill T. <> wrote:



    > :
    > : I don't understand all this whining. When I am teaching an apprentice I
    > : give them a little contest and exercise. Using this simple challenge
    > : several times during their learning experience to see how they are
    > : progressing. I will point out (for example) that tree, that rock, that
    > : fence-post, that weed. Then say, "Okay, you and I both have 5 minutes to
    > : find a printable image somewhere within those boundaries. GO!"
    > :
    > : It's never a challenge to find a subject worth printing. It's just a
    > : challenge to see if you can find something better than the other guy. When
    > : I can be outdone by my apprentice then I know I've taught well. It pisses
    > : me off to no end when outdone by them, but also proud of and pleased they
    > : are now doing so well--they finally "get it!"
    >
    > In a similar vein, I believe that the way to teach cropping is to assign the
    > student to find the best picture possible in every image (s)he shoots. Once
    > you've learned to make a bad picture mediocre, it's a lot easier to make a
    > good picture better.
    >
    > Bob


    Bob, you did understand that "Bill T." is none other than yet another
    sock of the resident P&S troll, didn't you?
    He is posing as the professor of all that is photography, and he is not
    worth wasting your time on. The likelihood that he has ever had an
    "apprentice" of any type is slim to nothing.
    As far as him being any kind of educator, perish the thought.
    --
    Just another P&S troll hunter.
     
    MothboyHunter, Jul 8, 2010
    #29
  10. Robert Coe

    Bill T. Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:04:57 -0700, MothboyHunter
    <> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > Robert Coe <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:53:48 -0500, Bill T. <> wrote:

    >
    >
    >> :
    >> : I don't understand all this whining. When I am teaching an apprentice I
    >> : give them a little contest and exercise. Using this simple challenge
    >> : several times during their learning experience to see how they are
    >> : progressing. I will point out (for example) that tree, that rock, that
    >> : fence-post, that weed. Then say, "Okay, you and I both have 5 minutes to
    >> : find a printable image somewhere within those boundaries. GO!"
    >> :
    >> : It's never a challenge to find a subject worth printing. It's just a
    >> : challenge to see if you can find something better than the other guy. When
    >> : I can be outdone by my apprentice then I know I've taught well. It pisses
    >> : me off to no end when outdone by them, but also proud of and pleased they
    >> : are now doing so well--they finally "get it!"
    >>
    >> In a similar vein, I believe that the way to teach cropping is to assign the
    >> student to find the best picture possible in every image (s)he shoots. Once
    >> you've learned to make a bad picture mediocre, it's a lot easier to make a
    >> good picture better.
    >>
    >> Bob

    >
    >Bob, you did understand that "Bill T." is none other than yet another
    >sock of the resident P&S troll, didn't you?


    You act as if that somehow discounts what I say.

    Troll much?

    LOL!!!!!!!!
     
    Bill T., Jul 8, 2010
    #30
  11. Robert Coe

    Bill T. Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:04:57 -0700, MothboyHunter
    <> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > Robert Coe <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:53:48 -0500, Bill T. <> wrote:

    >
    >
    >> :
    >> : I don't understand all this whining. When I am teaching an apprentice I
    >> : give them a little contest and exercise. Using this simple challenge
    >> : several times during their learning experience to see how they are
    >> : progressing. I will point out (for example) that tree, that rock, that
    >> : fence-post, that weed. Then say, "Okay, you and I both have 5 minutes to
    >> : find a printable image somewhere within those boundaries. GO!"
    >> :
    >> : It's never a challenge to find a subject worth printing. It's just a
    >> : challenge to see if you can find something better than the other guy. When
    >> : I can be outdone by my apprentice then I know I've taught well. It pisses
    >> : me off to no end when outdone by them, but also proud of and pleased they
    >> : are now doing so well--they finally "get it!"
    >>
    >> In a similar vein, I believe that the way to teach cropping is to assign the
    >> student to find the best picture possible in every image (s)he shoots. Once
    >> you've learned to make a bad picture mediocre, it's a lot easier to make a
    >> good picture better.
    >>
    >> Bob

    >
    >Bob, you did understand that "Bill T." is none other than yet another
    >sock of the resident P&S troll, didn't you?


    You act as if that somehow discounts what I say -- AND PROVE.

    Troll much?

    LOL!!!!!!!!
     
    Bill T., Jul 8, 2010
    #31
  12. Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    In article <>,
    Bill T. <> wrote:

    > On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:04:57 -0700, MothboyHunter
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >In article <>,
    > > Robert Coe <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:53:48 -0500, Bill T. <> wrote:

    > >
    > >
    > >> :
    > >> : I don't understand all this whining. When I am teaching an apprentice I
    > >> : give them a little contest and exercise. Using this simple challenge
    > >> : several times during their learning experience to see how they are
    > >> : progressing. I will point out (for example) that tree, that rock, that
    > >> : fence-post, that weed. Then say, "Okay, you and I both have 5 minutes to
    > >> : find a printable image somewhere within those boundaries. GO!"
    > >> :
    > >> : It's never a challenge to find a subject worth printing. It's just a
    > >> : challenge to see if you can find something better than the other guy.
    > >> : When
    > >> : I can be outdone by my apprentice then I know I've taught well. It
    > >> : pisses
    > >> : me off to no end when outdone by them, but also proud of and pleased
    > >> : they
    > >> : are now doing so well--they finally "get it!"
    > >>
    > >> In a similar vein, I believe that the way to teach cropping is to assign
    > >> the
    > >> student to find the best picture possible in every image (s)he shoots.
    > >> Once
    > >> you've learned to make a bad picture mediocre, it's a lot easier to make a
    > >> good picture better.
    > >>
    > >> Bob

    > >
    > >Bob, you did understand that "Bill T." is none other than yet another
    > >sock of the resident P&S troll, didn't you?

    >
    > You act as if that somehow discounts what I say -- AND PROVE.
    >
    > Troll much?
    >
    > LOL!!!!!!!!


    What an intellectual powerhouse!
    You had to add the "AND PROVE" as an afterthought.

    What you write and say is always discounted by your troll status,
    because you have never proven anything. You forfeited your credibility
    with your first rant. Any worthwhile information which might have got
    into any of your posts will always be tainted regardless of its value.
    You slip in a few facts and half truths as bait. When you get a nibble,
    you always try to set the hook too soon.
    It must be tough holed up in that basement.
    --
    Just another P&S troll hunter.
     
    MothboyHunter, Jul 8, 2010
    #32
  13. Robert Coe

    Bill T. Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:55:32 -0700, MothboyHunter
    <> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > Bill T. <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:04:57 -0700, MothboyHunter
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >In article <>,
    >> > Robert Coe <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:53:48 -0500, Bill T. <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >> :
    >> >> : I don't understand all this whining. When I am teaching an apprentice I
    >> >> : give them a little contest and exercise. Using this simple challenge
    >> >> : several times during their learning experience to see how they are
    >> >> : progressing. I will point out (for example) that tree, that rock, that
    >> >> : fence-post, that weed. Then say, "Okay, you and I both have 5 minutes to
    >> >> : find a printable image somewhere within those boundaries. GO!"
    >> >> :
    >> >> : It's never a challenge to find a subject worth printing. It's just a
    >> >> : challenge to see if you can find something better than the other guy.
    >> >> : When
    >> >> : I can be outdone by my apprentice then I know I've taught well. It
    >> >> : pisses
    >> >> : me off to no end when outdone by them, but also proud of and pleased
    >> >> : they
    >> >> : are now doing so well--they finally "get it!"
    >> >>
    >> >> In a similar vein, I believe that the way to teach cropping is to assign
    >> >> the
    >> >> student to find the best picture possible in every image (s)he shoots.
    >> >> Once
    >> >> you've learned to make a bad picture mediocre, it's a lot easier to make a
    >> >> good picture better.
    >> >>
    >> >> Bob
    >> >
    >> >Bob, you did understand that "Bill T." is none other than yet another
    >> >sock of the resident P&S troll, didn't you?

    >>
    >> You act as if that somehow discounts what I say -- AND PROVE.
    >>
    >> Troll much?
    >>
    >> LOL!!!!!!!!

    >
    >What an intellectual powerhouse!
    >You had to add the "AND PROVE" as an afterthought.
    >
    >What you write and say is always discounted by your troll status,
    >because you have never proven anything. You forfeited your credibility
    >with your first rant. Any worthwhile information which might have got
    >into any of your posts will always be tainted regardless of its value.
    >You slip in a few facts and half truths as bait. When you get a nibble,
    >you always try to set the hook too soon.
    >It must be tough holed up in that basement.


    Where's YOUR photography? I've uploaded and posted no less than 20 photos
    this month to prove fools like you dead-wrong, each and every time. Yet,
    you have yet to upload even ONE photo. Where's YOUR photography? You
    useless piece of shit pretend-photographer TROLL.

    LOL!
     
    Bill T., Jul 8, 2010
    #33
  14. Robert Coe

    tony cooper Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 23:01:58 -0500, Bill T. <> wrote:

    >Where's YOUR photography? I've uploaded and posted no less than 20 photos
    >this month to prove fools like you dead-wrong, each and every time.


    All with questionable provenance. All with the built-in excuse of
    being deliberately degraded.

    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Jul 8, 2010
    #34
  15. Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    In article <>,
    Bill T. <> wrote:

    > On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:55:32 -0700, MothboyHunter
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >In article <>,
    > > Bill T. <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:04:57 -0700, MothboyHunter
    > >> <> wrote:



    > >> >
    > >> >Bob, you did understand that "Bill T." is none other than yet another
    > >> >sock of the resident P&S troll, didn't you?
    > >>
    > >> You act as if that somehow discounts what I say -- AND PROVE.
    > >>
    > >> Troll much?
    > >>
    > >> LOL!!!!!!!!

    > >
    > >What an intellectual powerhouse!
    > >You had to add the "AND PROVE" as an afterthought.
    > >
    > >What you write and say is always discounted by your troll status,
    > >because you have never proven anything. You forfeited your credibility
    > >with your first rant. Any worthwhile information which might have got
    > >into any of your posts will always be tainted regardless of its value.
    > >You slip in a few facts and half truths as bait. When you get a nibble,
    > >you always try to set the hook too soon.
    > >It must be tough holed up in that basement.

    >
    > Where's YOUR photography? I've uploaded and posted no less than 20 photos
    > this month to prove fools like you dead-wrong, each and every time. Yet,
    > you have yet to upload even ONE photo. Where's YOUR photography? You
    > useless piece of shit pretend-photographer TROLL.
    >
    > LOL!


    My photography is irrelevant to this conversation. Show me any claims I
    have made regarding my photography. What is important is your long
    history as a PIA for this group. That has never changed.

    20 photos this month is it? You have not given us proof that any one of
    them is yours, all sucked out of the air as demonstrations of what
    somebody else did with a particular camera or subject.
    Where are your 20 photos? I haven't seen of yours, and you wouldn't
    prove they were yours in any event. You can't even prove who you are.
    As I have said before, it is your credibility which is in the toilet.

    I am writing from behind a nym to deal with you on an even playing
    field. No different to your method mothboy.
    --
    Just another P&S troll hunter.
     
    MothboyHunter, Jul 8, 2010
    #35
  16. Robert Coe

    LOL! Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 00:16:37 -0400, tony cooper
    <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 23:01:58 -0500, Bill T. <> wrote:
    >
    >>Where's YOUR photography? I've uploaded and posted no less than 20 photos
    >>this month to prove fools like you dead-wrong, each and every time.

    >
    >All with questionable provenance. All with the built-in excuse of
    >being deliberately degraded.


    Until you have to file lawsuits against image thieving trolls like Vance
    due to the photography excellence you have NO ROOM to make any comments
    about how they are presented.

    LOL!
     
    LOL!, Jul 8, 2010
    #36
  17. Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 22:17:51 -0700, MothboyHunter
    <> wrote:

    >My photography is irrelevant to this conversation.


    Translation "I've never done any macrophotography. In fact, I've never done
    any photography at all. So I don't know what the **** I'm spewing about."

    LOL!
     
    Outing Trolls is FUN!, Jul 8, 2010
    #37
  18. Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    In article <>,
    Outing Trolls is FUN! <> wrote:

    > On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 22:17:51 -0700, MothboyHunter
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >My photography is irrelevant to this conversation.

    >
    > Translation "I've never done any macrophotography. In fact, I've never done
    > any photography at all. So I don't know what the **** I'm spewing about."
    >
    > LOL!


    You don't get it do you?
    I haven't spewed one word about photography. Show me where I have.
    I only make comments regarding a certain PIA troll and his alleged
    photography acumen. I am not debating photography with you, especially
    since you are not willing to support your credentials with facts, or
    evidence the photos you lift from across the web are actually yours.

    I know enough about photography to tell BS from a Brownie, and you are
    so deep in BS you must be suffering from oxygen deprivation.
    --
    Just another troll hunter, continuing to bug the resident troll.
     
    MothboyHunter, Jul 8, 2010
    #38
  19. Robert Coe

    LOL! Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 23:16:27 -0700, MothboyHunter
    <> wrote:

    >I haven't spewed one word about photography. Show me where I have.


    Thanks!! For admitting that you are NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT TROLL!

    LOL!

    Case fucking closed.

    LOL!
     
    LOL!, Jul 8, 2010
    #39
  20. Robert Coe

    whisky-dave Guest

    Re: New Mandates! Get 'em while they're hot!

    "Chris Malcolm" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In rec.photo.digital otter <> wrote:
    >
    >> Those are points of "interest", not random points. I think the point
    >> of the mandate is to try to take interesting pictures at uninteresting
    >> (random) locations.

    >
    > If the locations are truly random then some of them will be
    > interesting by lucky accident. Which would seem to be unfair to
    > unlucky photographers.


    With google maps I thought I'd find some interesting listed building near my
    home, the closest two were a Red telephone kiosk and a fence around a pub
    that is now a betting shop, the pub not the fence.
     
    whisky-dave, Jul 8, 2010
    #40
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