Re: [SI] Mandate substitution

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Pete, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. Pete

    Pete Guest

    On 2010-09-23 21:02:14 +0100, Troy Piggins said:

    > * Bowser wrote :
    >> Due to popular demand, the "Open" mandate has been dumped in favor of
    >> Night Shots. Now quit complaining. I don't get paid for this.

    > ...
    >
    > Excellent point and it appears that everyone needs reminding of
    > this. For what it's worth, you do have my support and
    > appreciation for the time (your own time) and effort (volunteered
    > and without paY) involved in keeping the ShootIn going.


    My support also.

    To address Tony C's comments about lack of feedback, I do not feel
    worthy of commenting on the images because:

    1. I have not submitted anything myself.

    2. My skills are less than that of the contributors.

    3. Many posts have shown that "I like this image" is lame and inappropriate.

    4. Giving positive feedback for one or two images could be interpreted
    as "so the others were crap", which is not the case.

    5. Nearly everything I post ends up in being "dismissed by the teachers".

    I've thoroughly enjoyed every SI I've seen and take this opportunity to
    thank Bowser and all the contributors for there time and effort. Simply
    brilliant.

    --
    Pete
    Pete, Sep 23, 2010
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Pete

    otter Guest

    Re: Mandate substitution

    On Sep 23, 4:30 pm, Pete <> wrote:
    > On 2010-09-23 21:02:14 +0100, Troy Piggins said:
    >
    > > * Bowser wrote :
    > >> Due to popular demand, the "Open" mandate has been dumped in favor of
    > >> Night Shots. Now quit complaining. I don't get paid for this.

    > > ...

    >
    > > Excellent point and it appears that everyone needs reminding of
    > > this.  For what it's worth, you do have my support and
    > > appreciation for the time (your own time) and effort (volunteered
    > > and without paY) involved in keeping the ShootIn going.

    >
    > My support also.
    >
    > To address Tony C's comments about lack of feedback, I do not feel
    > worthy of commenting on the images because:
    >
    > 1. I have not submitted anything myself.
    >
    > 2. My skills are less than that of the contributors.
    >
    > 3. Many posts have shown that "I like this image" is lame and inappropriate.
    >
    > 4. Giving positive feedback for one or two images could be interpreted
    > as "so the others were crap", which is not the case.
    >
    > 5. Nearly everything I post ends up in being "dismissed by the teachers".
    >
    > I've thoroughly enjoyed every SI I've seen and take this opportunity to
    > thank Bowser and all the contributors for there time and effort. Simply
    > brilliant.
    >
    > --
    > Pete


    I'm not sure everyone wants feedback on their submissions. And a lot
    of people don't take criticism well. So, I have elected to not tear
    apart pictures posted by others, unless they have given a clear
    indication that they want such feedback and are able to take it
    constructively without being defensive.

    I'm also not going to nitpick every small detail. If I see something
    that would be obviously better some other way, I might comment on it,
    but otherwise not.

    And sometimes I'm too busy with other things to get involved with
    this. You know, the life of a corporate dullard and all.
    otter, Sep 23, 2010
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Pete

    Peter Guest

    "Pete" <> wrote in message
    news:2010092322300242626-availableonrequest@aserverinvalid...


    >
    > To address Tony C's comments about lack of feedback, I do not feel worthy
    > of commenting on the images because:
    >
    > 1. I have not submitted anything myself.
    >
    > 2. My skills are less than that of the contributors.
    >
    > 3. Many posts have shown that "I like this image" is lame and
    > inappropriate.
    >
    > 4. Giving positive feedback for one or two images could be interpreted as
    > "so the others were crap", which is not the case.
    >
    > 5. Nearly everything I post ends up in being "dismissed by the teachers".
    >
    > I've thoroughly enjoyed every SI I've seen and take this opportunity to
    > thank Bowser and all the contributors for there time and effort. Simply
    > brilliant.
    >


    Bullshit!
    If you like my image, there is a reason you like it.
    Similarly, if you do not like my image there is a reason. As a parallel: I
    stink at golf, but have had success teaching golf.
    You may feel intimidated, but you should not be. Art is so subjective that
    you don't need any special qualification to comment.
    Compare! Ever say or think, "yeech," when eating something you don't like?
    Ever take a second portion of something you really do enjoy eating?
    You certainly don't have to be a chef to say why you like or dislike the
    food.
    I can tell an individual how to get laid 8 times in an evening, but can't do
    it myself.

    I won't speak for others, but I post there because I like another forum to
    display my work and look forward to constructive comments, which help
    improve my work. Indeed, comments from novices can often tell me if I am
    gong in the right direction. You don't have to like it.

    So let's hear form you, good or bad.
    --
    Peter
    Peter, Sep 23, 2010
    #3
  4. Pete

    tony cooper Guest

    On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 22:30:02 +0100, Pete
    <> wrote:

    >On 2010-09-23 21:02:14 +0100, Troy Piggins said:
    >
    >> * Bowser wrote :
    >>> Due to popular demand, the "Open" mandate has been dumped in favor of
    >>> Night Shots. Now quit complaining. I don't get paid for this.

    >> ...
    >>
    >> Excellent point and it appears that everyone needs reminding of
    >> this. For what it's worth, you do have my support and
    >> appreciation for the time (your own time) and effort (volunteered
    >> and without paY) involved in keeping the ShootIn going.

    >
    >My support also.
    >
    >To address Tony C's comments about lack of feedback, I do not feel
    >worthy of commenting on the images because:
    >
    >1. I have not submitted anything myself.


    In my opinion, this should not be a factor in any way. The point of
    the comments is for the person submitting the images to see how other
    people view his photographs. Good? Bad? Cropped to the most
    effective composition? Interesting? Is there a distraction that the
    photographer doesn't see but the viewer does?

    >2. My skills are less than that of the contributors.


    Unimportant. You have the skill to see a photograph and know if you
    like it or not and what you do and don't like about it.

    Whenever I travel to larger cities, I try to visit art museums. I've
    been to all the major museums in most of the major cities in the US
    and some in Europe.

    I can't draw a smiley face and can only use a brush to paint a wall.
    That doesn't mean that I can't form opinions about art.
    >
    >3. Many posts have shown that "I like this image" is lame and inappropriate.


    If there are ten images and you comment ten times "I like this", then
    you really are not contributing. If you add why you like it to seven
    of them, you are contributing.
    >
    >4. Giving positive feedback for one or two images could be interpreted
    >as "so the others were crap", which is not the case.


    Several people do that. Some people don't like to say anything
    negative about any contribution. Still, the few you do comment on
    makes your contribution worthwhile.
    >
    >5. Nearly everything I post ends up in being "dismissed by the teachers".


    I don't understand this comment. Who dismisses your input? There are
    a few people here who dismiss everything and anyone, but no one pays
    any attention to them.

    Do you think anyone cares if, for example, "LOL" (by any name)
    dismisses their comment? No one here pays the slightest bit of
    attention to that person. He's a joke, and he's the only person here
    who doesn't know he's a joke.



    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Sep 24, 2010
    #4
  5. Pete

    tony cooper Guest

    Re: Mandate substitution

    On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 15:17:38 -0700 (PDT), otter
    <> wrote:

    >On Sep 23, 4:30 pm, Pete <> wrote:
    >> On 2010-09-23 21:02:14 +0100, Troy Piggins said:
    >>
    >> > * Bowser wrote :
    >> >> Due to popular demand, the "Open" mandate has been dumped in favor of
    >> >> Night Shots. Now quit complaining. I don't get paid for this.
    >> > ...

    >>
    >> > Excellent point and it appears that everyone needs reminding of
    >> > this.  For what it's worth, you do have my support and
    >> > appreciation for the time (your own time) and effort (volunteered
    >> > and without paY) involved in keeping the ShootIn going.

    >>
    >> My support also.
    >>
    >> To address Tony C's comments about lack of feedback, I do not feel
    >> worthy of commenting on the images because:
    >>
    >> 1. I have not submitted anything myself.
    >>
    >> 2. My skills are less than that of the contributors.
    >>
    >> 3. Many posts have shown that "I like this image" is lame and inappropriate.
    >>
    >> 4. Giving positive feedback for one or two images could be interpreted
    >> as "so the others were crap", which is not the case.
    >>
    >> 5. Nearly everything I post ends up in being "dismissed by the teachers".
    >>
    >> I've thoroughly enjoyed every SI I've seen and take this opportunity to
    >> thank Bowser and all the contributors for there time and effort. Simply
    >> brilliant.


    Pete
    >
    >I'm not sure everyone wants feedback on their submissions.


    I seriously doubt that.

    >And a lot of people don't take criticism well. So, I have elected to not tear
    >apart pictures posted by others, unless they have given a clear
    >indication that they want such feedback and are able to take it
    >constructively without being defensive.


    No one's suggesting that you tear an image apart. A comment like
    "This one doesn't work for me" is not exactly ripping it to shreds.
    Most of the critical comments have been met with either agreement or
    revisions by the person submitting the shot, although there's no
    reason that the submitter has to agree with the criticism.

    >
    >I'm also not going to nitpick every small detail. If I see something
    >that would be obviously better some other way, I might comment on it,
    >but otherwise not.
    >
    >And sometimes I'm too busy with other things to get involved with
    >this. You know, the life of a corporate dullard and all.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Sep 24, 2010
    #5
  6. Pete

    Tim Conway Guest

    Re: Mandate substitution

    "Troy Piggins" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >* otter wrote :
    >> On Sep 23, 4:30 pm, Pete <> wrote:
    >> [---=| Quote block shrinked by t-prot: 29 lines snipped |=---]
    >>> thank Bowser and all the contributors for there time and effort. Simply
    >>> brilliant.

    >>
    >> I'm not sure everyone wants feedback on their submissions. And a lot
    >> of people don't take criticism well. So, I have elected to not tear
    >> apart pictures posted by others, unless they have given a clear
    >> indication that they want such feedback and are able to take it
    >> constructively without being defensive.
    >>
    >> I'm also not going to nitpick every small detail. If I see something
    >> that would be obviously better some other way, I might comment on it,
    >> but otherwise not.
    >>
    >> And sometimes I'm too busy with other things to get involved with
    >> this. You know, the life of a corporate dullard and all.

    >
    > Not that I've had a chance to submit the last few SIs, but when I
    > do get the next chance, please note that I do appreciate all
    > comments and critiques. It's how we learn. If noone provides
    > feedback, you'll just keep taking the same sort of photos and may
    > not improve.
    >
    > --

    I agree. I'm going to try to comment after this. I think it is only fair.
    Tim Conway, Sep 24, 2010
    #6
  7. Pete

    Robert Coe Guest

    Re: Mandate substitution

    On Fri, 24 Sep 2010 08:26:13 +1000, Troy Piggins <>
    wrote:
    : * otter wrote :
    : > On Sep 23, 4:30 pm, Pete <> wrote:
    : > [---=| Quote block shrinked by t-prot: 29 lines snipped |=---]
    : >> thank Bowser and all the contributors for there time and effort. Simply
    : >> brilliant.
    : >
    : > I'm not sure everyone wants feedback on their submissions. And a lot
    : > of people don't take criticism well. So, I have elected to not tear
    : > apart pictures posted by others, unless they have given a clear
    : > indication that they want such feedback and are able to take it
    : > constructively without being defensive.
    : >
    : > I'm also not going to nitpick every small detail. If I see something
    : > that would be obviously better some other way, I might comment on it,
    : > but otherwise not.
    : >
    : > And sometimes I'm too busy with other things to get involved with
    : > this. You know, the life of a corporate dullard and all.
    :
    : Not that I've had a chance to submit the last few SIs, but when I
    : do get the next chance, please note that I do appreciate all
    : comments and critiques. It's how we learn. If noone provides
    : feedback, you'll just keep taking the same sort of photos and may
    : not improve.

    Those new to the SI may not realize that Troy is a master of macro
    photography. His recent absence has been our loss.

    Bob
    Robert Coe, Sep 24, 2010
    #7
  8. Pete

    LOL! Guest

    On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 19:54:08 -0400, tony cooper
    <> wrote:

    >
    >Do you think anyone cares if, for example, "LOL" (by any name)
    >dismisses their comment? No one here pays the slightest bit of
    >attention to that person. He's a joke, and he's the only person here
    >who doesn't know he's a joke.


    Then it wouldn't bother you enough to have even mentioned it. What's the
    matter? My pointing out that your clone-crap (with obvious copied details)
    on some mundane crapshot that was missing important shading to make it the
    least bit believable, showing everyone what a horse-shit photographer and
    editor that you are, was too much for ya?

    LOL!!!!!

    BTW: We're ALL still waiting for you to post PROOF about my having posted
    "rare moths" or my claiming to have them named after me. Your failure to do
    so PROVES that you are a lying, sniveling, slandering and libelous
    fuckhead. Or don't you realize that yet?

    Lie, slander, and libel much? You fuckingly useless ****-TROLLER.

    LOL!
    LOL!, Sep 24, 2010
    #8
  9. Pete

    Pete Guest

    On 2010-09-24 00:54:08 +0100, tony cooper said:

    > On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 22:30:02 +0100, Pete
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> On 2010-09-23 21:02:14 +0100, Troy Piggins said:
    >>
    >>> * Bowser wrote :
    >>>> Due to popular demand, the "Open" mandate has been dumped in favor of
    >>>> Night Shots. Now quit complaining. I don't get paid for this.
    >>> ...
    >>>
    >>> Excellent point and it appears that everyone needs reminding of
    >>> this. For what it's worth, you do have my support and
    >>> appreciation for the time (your own time) and effort (volunteered
    >>> and without paY) involved in keeping the ShootIn going.

    >>
    >> My support also.
    >>
    >> To address Tony C's comments about lack of feedback, I do not feel
    >> worthy of commenting on the images because:
    >>
    >> 1. I have not submitted anything myself.

    >
    > In my opinion, this should not be a factor in any way. The point of
    > the comments is for the person submitting the images to see how other
    > people view his photographs. Good? Bad? Cropped to the most
    > effective composition? Interesting? Is there a distraction that the
    > photographer doesn't see but the viewer does?
    >
    >> 2. My skills are less than that of the contributors.

    >
    > Unimportant. You have the skill to see a photograph and know if you
    > like it or not and what you do and don't like about it.
    >
    > Whenever I travel to larger cities, I try to visit art museums. I've
    > been to all the major museums in most of the major cities in the US
    > and some in Europe.
    >
    > I can't draw a smiley face and can only use a brush to paint a wall.
    > That doesn't mean that I can't form opinions about art.
    >>
    >> 3. Many posts have shown that "I like this image" is lame and inappropriate.

    >
    > If there are ten images and you comment ten times "I like this", then
    > you really are not contributing. If you add why you like it to seven
    > of them, you are contributing.
    >>
    >> 4. Giving positive feedback for one or two images could be interpreted
    >> as "so the others were crap", which is not the case.

    >
    > Several people do that. Some people don't like to say anything
    > negative about any contribution. Still, the few you do comment on
    > makes your contribution worthwhile.
    >>
    >> 5. Nearly everything I post ends up in being "dismissed by the teachers".

    >
    > I don't understand this comment. Who dismisses your input? There are
    > a few people here who dismiss everything and anyone, but no one pays
    > any attention to them.
    >
    > Do you think anyone cares if, for example, "LOL" (by any name)
    > dismisses their comment? No one here pays the slightest bit of
    > attention to that person. He's a joke, and he's the only person here
    > who doesn't know he's a joke.


    Thanks Tony, understood.

    --
    Pete
    Pete, Sep 24, 2010
    #9
  10. Pete

    Annika1980 Guest

    Re: Mandate substitution

    On Sep 23, 8:57 pm, Troy Piggins <> wrote:

    > I've been far too busy in my personal and professional life to be
    > able to do much macro photography, let alone photography in
    > general.  I was so desperate that I even shot some baby insects
    > in my laundry the other day just to get a macro-fix :(


    Nobody wants to see your crabs.
    Annika1980, Oct 8, 2010
    #10
  11. Pete

    Annika1980 Guest

    Re: Mandate substitution

    On Oct 10, 12:41 pm, Alan Browne <>
    wrote:
    >
    > Criticism takes effort.  


    For some of us it comes easy.
    Accepting criticism, on the other hand, is a trait that a few people
    have yet to master.
    Like that buttmunch, Noons, for example.
    Annika1980, Oct 12, 2010
    #11
  12. Pete

    Noons Guest

    Re: Mandate substitution

    On Oct 12, 11:15 am, Annika1980 <> wrote:

    > > Criticism takes effort.  

    >
    > For some of us it comes easy.
    > Accepting criticism, on the other hand, is a trait that a few people
    > have yet to master.
    > Like that buttmunch, Noons, for example.


    Or that low-life troll, Bret Douglas, for example.
    Noons, Oct 13, 2010
    #12
  13. Re: Mandate substitution

    On 10/12/10 PDT 11:53 PM, Noons wrote:
    > On Oct 12, 11:15 am, Annika1980<> wrote:
    >
    >>> Criticism takes effort.

    >>
    >> For some of us it comes easy.
    >> Accepting criticism, on the other hand, is a trait that a few people
    >> have yet to master.
    >> Like that buttmunch, Noons, for example.

    >
    > Or that low-life troll, Bret Douglas, for example.


    Number one PKB of 2010!

    Slog off, noonsie.
    John McWilliams, Oct 13, 2010
    #13
  14. Pete

    Robert Coe Guest

    Re: Mandate substitution

    On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 23:53:41 -0700 (PDT), Noons <> wrote:
    : On Oct 12, 11:15 am, Annika1980 <> wrote:
    :
    : > > Criticism takes effort.  
    : >
    : > For some of us it comes easy.
    : > Accepting criticism, on the other hand, is a trait that a few people
    : > have yet to master.
    : > Like that buttmunch, Noons, for example.
    :
    : Or that low-life troll, Bret Douglas, for example.

    For whose amusement do you guys keep this silly spat going? Since it's been a
    long time, if ever, since either of you injected any ingeneous humiliations or
    biting wit, it's really pretty boring. I don't know about Noons, since I don't
    think I've ever seen his work; but Bret, you're too good a photographer to
    waste your time this way. It makes you look like a jackass, which you're not.
    It makes you look like a jackass too, Noons, and I guess I'm open to being
    convinced that you're also not one.

    And before you simply tell me to shut up and mind my own business, I'd bet
    money that 90% of the photography newsgroups' contributors feel the same way.

    Bob
    Robert Coe, Oct 14, 2010
    #14
  15. Pete

    Noons Guest

    Re: Mandate substitution

    On Oct 14, 2:59 am, John McWilliams <> wrote:
    > On 10/12/10   PDT 11:53 PM, Noons wrote:
    >
    > > On Oct 12, 11:15 am, Annika1980<>  wrote:

    >
    > >>> Criticism takes effort.

    >
    > >> For some of us it comes easy.
    > >> Accepting criticism, on the other hand, is a trait that a few people
    > >> have yet to master.
    > >> Like that buttmunch, Noons, for example.

    >
    > > Or that low-life troll, Bret Douglas, for example.

    >
    > Number one PKB of 2010!
    >
    > Slog off, noonsie.


    **** off, dickhead.
    Noons, Oct 14, 2010
    #15
  16. Pete

    Noons Guest

    Re: Mandate substitution

    On Oct 14, 10:23 am, Robert Coe <> wrote:

    > For whose amusement do you guys keep this silly spat going? Since it's been a


    If you were intelligent enough to fathom who started the slugging,
    you'd realize that it is that stupid arse Bret who does it all the
    time. So instead of acting all flushed, why don't you attack the root
    of the problem, arsehole?


    > biting wit, it's really pretty boring. I don't know about Noons, since I don't
    > think I've ever seen his work;


    and you'll never see it.


    > waste your time this way. It makes you look like a jackass, which you're not.


    Beg to disagree. Proof is his entire behaviour in every newsgroup he
    participates in.

    > It makes you look like a jackass too, Noons, and I guess I'm open to being
    > convinced that you're also not one.


    I'm also open to not give a shit what you might think. Deal?


    > And before you simply tell me to shut up and mind my own business, I'd bet
    > money that 90% of the photography newsgroups' contributors feel the same way.


    Ah yes: all 6 of you SI "members"?
    What a crowd!
    Noons, Oct 14, 2010
    #16
  17. Pete

    Robert Coe Guest

    Re: Mandate substitution

    On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 20:30:24 -0700 (PDT), Noons <> wrote:
    : On Oct 14, 10:23 am, Robert Coe <> wrote:
    :
    : > For whose amusement do you guys keep this silly spat going? Since it's been a
    :
    : If you were intelligent enough to fathom who started the slugging,
    : you'd realize that it is that stupid arse Bret who does it all the
    : time. So instead of acting all flushed, why don't you attack the root
    : of the problem, arsehole?

    OK, I guess it's pretty obvious where the root of the problem is.

    : > biting wit, it's really pretty boring. I don't know about Noons, since I don't
    : > think I've ever seen his work;
    :
    : and you'll never see it.

    I'll try to to contain my disappointment.

    : > waste your time this way. It makes you look like a jackass, which you're not.
    :
    : Beg to disagree. Proof is his entire behaviour in every newsgroup he
    : participates in.

    I must not have seen those groups.

    : > It makes you look like a jackass too, Noons, and I guess I'm open to being
    : > convinced that you're also not one.
    :
    : I'm also open to not give a shit what you might think. Deal?

    Deal. And you can go to Hell for all I care.

    : > And before you simply tell me to shut up and mind my own business, I'd bet
    : > money that 90% of the photography newsgroups' contributors feel the same way.
    :
    : Ah yes: all 6 of you SI "members"?
    : What a crowd!

    I didn't use the word "members", actually. But you can use any words you like
    to anybody who still listens.

    Bob
    Robert Coe, Oct 15, 2010
    #17
  18. Re: Mandate substitution

    On 10/14/10 PDT 4:05 PM, Robert Coe wrote:
    > On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 20:30:24 -0700 (PDT), Noons<> wrote:
    > : On Oct 14, 10:23 am, Robert Coe<> wrote:
    > :
    >
    > :> And before you simply tell me to shut up and mind my own business, I'd bet
    > :> money that 90% of the photography newsgroups' contributors feel the same way.
    > :
    > : Ah yes: all 6 of you SI "members"?
    > : What a crowd!
    >
    > I didn't use the word "members", actually. But you can use any words you like
    > to anybody who still listens.


    So is noonsie still jabbering around here? He seems to have a thing
    about "members", to make up for his own shortcomings.

    --
    lsmft
    John McWilliams, Oct 15, 2010
    #18
  19. Pete

    Noons Guest

    Re: Mandate substitution

    Robert Coe wrote,on my timestamp of 15/10/2010 10:05 AM:



    >
    > I must not have seen those groups.


    It kind of defines your entire approach to dealing with trolls.

    > : I'm also open to not give a shit what you might think. Deal?
    >
    > Deal. And you can go to Hell for all I care.


    following your lead.


    > I didn't use the word "members", actually. But you can use any words you like
    > to anybody who still listens.


    <yawn>
    Noons, Oct 17, 2010
    #19
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