Re: Shortages of ED glass coming?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by PeterN, Oct 7, 2011.

  1. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    On 10/7/2011 4:52 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2011-10-06 20:33:40 -0700, Eric Stevens <> said:
    >
    >> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 21:48:47 -0500, Rich <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Only two companies now make fluorite, thanks to greenie kooks in Europe.
    >>> Rare earths, essential for making ED glass, is 97% provided by China,
    >>> and
    >>> they apparently can consume most of it themselves. This could produce a
    >>> problem for any company producing lenses outside China. It may force the
    >>> last lens production of quality out of Japan and into China. In the
    >>> interim, expect price increases, it's likely what is responsible for
    >>> some
    >>> of the huge increases we've seen in new versions of lenses from Nikon
    >>> and
    >>> Canon.

    >>
    >> Fear not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorite
    >>
    >> "Fluorite is a widely occurring mineral which is found in large
    >> deposits in many areas. Notable deposits occur in China, Germany,
    >> Austria, Switzerland, England, Norway, Mexico, and both the
    >> Province of Ontario and Newfoundland and Labrador in Canada. Large
    >> deposits also occur in Kenya in the Kerio Valley area within the
    >> Great Rift Valley. In the United States, deposits are found in
    >> Missouri, Oklahoma, Illinois, Kentucky, Colorado, New Mexico,
    >> Arizona, Ohio, New Hampshire, New York, Alaska, and Texas. Fluorite
    >> has been the state mineral of Illinois since 1965. At that time,
    >> Illinois was the largest producer of fluorite in the United States,
    >> but the last fluorite mine in Illinois was closed in 1995.[7]
    >>
    >> The world reserves of fluorite are estimated at 230 million tonnes
    >> (Mt) with the largest deposits being in South Africa (about 41 Mt),
    >> Mexico (32 Mt) and China (24 Mt). China is leading the world
    >> production with about 3 Mt annually (in 2010), followed by Mexico
    >> (1.0 Mt), Mongolia (0.45 Mt), Russia (0.22 Mt), South Africa (0.13
    >> Mt), Spain (0.12 Mt) and Namibia (0.11 Mt)."
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >>
    >> Eric Stevens

    >
    > Facts! Rich don't need no steenkin' facts!!
    >


    On second thought, business spends millions of dollars in consulting
    fees, for just the type of business analysis Rich gives us free. He
    obviously doesn't want to disclose his algorithms.


    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Oct 7, 2011
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. PeterN

    RichA Guest

    On Oct 7, 10:36 am, PeterN <> wrote:
    > On 10/7/2011 4:52 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On 2011-10-06 20:33:40 -0700, Eric Stevens <> said:

    >
    > >> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 21:48:47 -0500, Rich <> wrote:

    >
    > >>> Only two companies now make fluorite, thanks to greenie kooks in Europe.
    > >>> Rare earths, essential for making ED glass, is 97% provided by China,
    > >>> and
    > >>> they apparently can consume most of it themselves. This could producea
    > >>> problem for any company producing lenses outside China. It may force the
    > >>> last lens production of quality out of Japan and into China. In the
    > >>> interim, expect price increases, it's likely what is responsible for
    > >>> some
    > >>> of the huge increases we've seen in new versions of lenses from Nikon
    > >>> and
    > >>> Canon.

    >
    > >> Fear not.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorite

    >
    > >> "Fluorite is a widely occurring mineral which is found in large
    > >> deposits in many areas. Notable deposits occur in China, Germany,
    > >> Austria, Switzerland, England, Norway, Mexico, and both the
    > >> Province of Ontario and Newfoundland and Labrador in Canada. Large
    > >> deposits also occur in Kenya in the Kerio Valley area within the
    > >> Great Rift Valley. In the United States, deposits are found in
    > >> Missouri, Oklahoma, Illinois, Kentucky, Colorado, New Mexico,
    > >> Arizona, Ohio, New Hampshire, New York, Alaska, and Texas. Fluorite
    > >> has been the state mineral of Illinois since 1965. At that time,
    > >> Illinois was the largest producer of fluorite in the United States,
    > >> but the last fluorite mine in Illinois was closed in 1995.[7]

    >
    > >> The world reserves of fluorite are estimated at 230 million tonnes
    > >> (Mt) with the largest deposits being in South Africa (about 41 Mt),
    > >> Mexico (32 Mt) and China (24 Mt). China is leading the world
    > >> production with about 3 Mt annually (in 2010), followed by Mexico
    > >> (1.0 Mt), Mongolia (0.45 Mt), Russia (0.22 Mt), South Africa (0.13
    > >> Mt), Spain (0.12 Mt) and Namibia (0.11 Mt)."

    >
    > >> Regards,

    >
    > >> Eric Stevens

    >
    > > Facts! Rich don't need no steenkin' facts!!

    >
    > On second thought, business spends millions of dollars in consulting
    > fees, for just the type of business analysis Rich gives us free. He
    > obviously doesn't want to disclose his algorithms.
    >
    > --
    > Peter


    I found this:

    SPIE Professional October 2011
    Optics firms see continuing shortage of rare-earth materials
    The shortage of rare-earth materials is becoming increasingly dire as
    already short supply chains were reduced this summer.
    By Alison Jones

    Periodic Table

    The shortage of rare-earth materials is becoming increasingly dire as
    already short supply chains were reduced this summer. Consequently,
    prices for rare-earth materials have increased dramatically, further
    impacting the optics and photonics industry, which depends on 15 of
    the 17 rare-earth elements and was already suffering from insufficient
    materials to meet demand.

    For example, JENOPTIK Optical Systems, an SPIE corporate member with
    U.S. manufacturing facilities in Massachusetts, Florida, and Alabama,
    has seen a 16-fold increase in the price of a cerium oxide, a glass
    polishing compound that is crucial to its business. This has resulted
    in increased costs, decreased profit margins, and an ever-growing
    challenge to remain globally competitive.

    "Long term, I believe that increasing glass costs will 'shrink' the
    glass map and force us to find new ways to achieve the performance
    required by our customers without using anomalous partial-dispersion
    glasses," said JENOPTIK President Jay Kumler, a member of the SPIE
    Board of Directors.

    China currently mines 94% of the world's rare-earth elements, but that
    nation has imposed quotas to limit exports of the materials, leading
    to the supply shortage and increased costs.

    As an example of how governments are attempting to address the crisis,
    the U.S. Congress recently included language related to rare earths in
    the FY 2012 National Defense Authorization bill (H.R. 1540) that
    passed the House Armed Services Committee in May but has not yet been
    approved by the Senate. The provision would require the Defense
    Logistics Agency Strategic Materials Center to begin developing a plan
    to maintain a domestic supply chain that is competitive and multi-
    sourced. This comes as the shortage has impacted key defense
    applications including precision optics.

    Some countries, such as the United States, Canada, and Australia, have
    also started strategic efforts to reopen mines. Those efforts,
    however, are not expected to have a significant impact for three
    years.

    Have a question or comment about this article? Write to us at
    .
    RichA, Oct 7, 2011
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    On 10/7/2011 2:05 PM, RichA wrote:
    > On Oct 7, 10:36 am, PeterN<> wrote:
    >> On 10/7/2011 4:52 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> On 2011-10-06 20:33:40 -0700, Eric Stevens<> said:

    >>
    >>>> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 21:48:47 -0500, Rich<> wrote:

    >>
    >>>>> Only two companies now make fluorite, thanks to greenie kooks in Europe.
    >>>>> Rare earths, essential for making ED glass, is 97% provided by China,
    >>>>> and
    >>>>> they apparently can consume most of it themselves. This could produce a
    >>>>> problem for any company producing lenses outside China. It may force the
    >>>>> last lens production of quality out of Japan and into China. In the
    >>>>> interim, expect price increases, it's likely what is responsible for
    >>>>> some
    >>>>> of the huge increases we've seen in new versions of lenses from Nikon
    >>>>> and
    >>>>> Canon.

    >>
    >>>> Fear not.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorite

    >>
    >>>> "Fluorite is a widely occurring mineral which is found in large
    >>>> deposits in many areas. Notable deposits occur in China, Germany,
    >>>> Austria, Switzerland, England, Norway, Mexico, and both the
    >>>> Province of Ontario and Newfoundland and Labrador in Canada. Large
    >>>> deposits also occur in Kenya in the Kerio Valley area within the
    >>>> Great Rift Valley. In the United States, deposits are found in
    >>>> Missouri, Oklahoma, Illinois, Kentucky, Colorado, New Mexico,
    >>>> Arizona, Ohio, New Hampshire, New York, Alaska, and Texas. Fluorite
    >>>> has been the state mineral of Illinois since 1965. At that time,
    >>>> Illinois was the largest producer of fluorite in the United States,
    >>>> but the last fluorite mine in Illinois was closed in 1995.[7]

    >>
    >>>> The world reserves of fluorite are estimated at 230 million tonnes
    >>>> (Mt) with the largest deposits being in South Africa (about 41 Mt),
    >>>> Mexico (32 Mt) and China (24 Mt). China is leading the world
    >>>> production with about 3 Mt annually (in 2010), followed by Mexico
    >>>> (1.0 Mt), Mongolia (0.45 Mt), Russia (0.22 Mt), South Africa (0.13
    >>>> Mt), Spain (0.12 Mt) and Namibia (0.11 Mt)."

    >>
    >>>> Regards,

    >>
    >>>> Eric Stevens

    >>
    >>> Facts! Rich don't need no steenkin' facts!!

    >>
    >> On second thought, business spends millions of dollars in consulting
    >> fees, for just the type of business analysis Rich gives us free. He
    >> obviously doesn't want to disclose his algorithms.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Peter

    >
    > I found this:
    >
    > SPIE Professional October 2011
    > Optics firms see continuing shortage of rare-earth materials
    > The shortage of rare-earth materials is becoming increasingly dire as
    > already short supply chains were reduced this summer.
    > By Alison Jones
    >
    > Periodic Table
    >
    > The shortage of rare-earth materials is becoming increasingly dire as
    > already short supply chains were reduced this summer. Consequently,
    > prices for rare-earth materials have increased dramatically, further
    > impacting the optics and photonics industry, which depends on 15 of
    > the 17 rare-earth elements and was already suffering from insufficient
    > materials to meet demand.
    >
    > For example, JENOPTIK Optical Systems, an SPIE corporate member with
    > U.S. manufacturing facilities in Massachusetts, Florida, and Alabama,
    > has seen a 16-fold increase in the price of a cerium oxide, a glass
    > polishing compound that is crucial to its business. This has resulted
    > in increased costs, decreased profit margins, and an ever-growing
    > challenge to remain globally competitive.
    >
    > "Long term, I believe that increasing glass costs will 'shrink' the
    > glass map and force us to find new ways to achieve the performance
    > required by our customers without using anomalous partial-dispersion
    > glasses," said JENOPTIK President Jay Kumler, a member of the SPIE
    > Board of Directors.
    >
    > China currently mines 94% of the world's rare-earth elements, but that
    > nation has imposed quotas to limit exports of the materials, leading
    > to the supply shortage and increased costs.
    >
    > As an example of how governments are attempting to address the crisis,
    > the U.S. Congress recently included language related to rare earths in
    > the FY 2012 National Defense Authorization bill (H.R. 1540) that
    > passed the House Armed Services Committee in May but has not yet been
    > approved by the Senate. The provision would require the Defense
    > Logistics Agency Strategic Materials Center to begin developing a plan
    > to maintain a domestic supply chain that is competitive and multi-
    > sourced. This comes as the shortage has impacted key defense
    > applications including precision optics.
    >
    > Some countries, such as the United States, Canada, and Australia, have
    > also started strategic efforts to reopen mines. Those efforts,
    > however, are not expected to have a significant impact for three
    > years.
    >
    > Have a question or comment about this article? Write to us at
    > .


    I stand by my statement. What are you qualifications. If a normal person
    wanted to start a discussion he would start by stating In this article
    ...................

    But you decided to state it as a fact. You can bet the ranch that I
    would not rely on any one article if I was investing in rare earth
    futures. It so happens that the only futures I would play with is
    coffee, because I have some basic understanding of that market. And I
    certainly would not share that kind of analysis without adequate
    compensation. If you truly understand the rare earth markets, you have
    never demonstrated any such knowledge.

    And no I am not about to research the issue, as I am far more interested
    in improving my photography, than if the price of a piece of glass I may
    want in the future goes up by a thousand dollars, or two.


    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Oct 7, 2011
    #3
  4. PeterN

    PeterN Guest

    On 10/7/2011 11:41 PM, Rich wrote:
    > PeterN<> wrote in
    > news:4e8f47cf$0$31092$-secrets.com:
    >
    >> On 10/7/2011 2:05 PM, RichA wrote:
    >>> On Oct 7, 10:36 am, PeterN<> wrote:
    >>>> On 10/7/2011 4:52 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> On 2011-10-06 20:33:40 -0700, Eric Stevens<>
    >>>>> said:
    >>>>
    >>>>>> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 21:48:47 -0500, Rich<> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>>> Only two companies now make fluorite, thanks to greenie kooks in
    >>>>>>> Europe. Rare earths, essential for making ED glass, is 97%
    >>>>>>> provided by China, and
    >>>>>>> they apparently can consume most of it themselves. This could
    >>>>>>> produce a problem for any company producing lenses outside China.
    >>>>>>> It may force the last lens production of quality out of Japan and
    >>>>>>> into China. In the interim, expect price increases, it's likely
    >>>>>>> what is responsible for some
    >>>>>>> of the huge increases we've seen in new versions of lenses from
    >>>>>>> Nikon and
    >>>>>>> Canon.
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Fear not.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorite
    >>>>
    >>>>>> "Fluorite is a widely occurring mineral which is found in large
    >>>>>> deposits in many areas. Notable deposits occur in China, Germany,
    >>>>>> Austria, Switzerland, England, Norway, Mexico, and both the
    >>>>>> Province of Ontario and Newfoundland and Labrador in Canada. Large
    >>>>>> deposits also occur in Kenya in the Kerio Valley area within the
    >>>>>> Great Rift Valley. In the United States, deposits are found in
    >>>>>> Missouri, Oklahoma, Illinois, Kentucky, Colorado, New Mexico,
    >>>>>> Arizona, Ohio, New Hampshire, New York, Alaska, and Texas.
    >>>>>> Fluorite has been the state mineral of Illinois since 1965. At
    >>>>>> that time, Illinois was the largest producer of fluorite in the
    >>>>>> United States, but the last fluorite mine in Illinois was closed
    >>>>>> in 1995.[7]
    >>>>
    >>>>>> The world reserves of fluorite are estimated at 230 million tonnes
    >>>>>> (Mt) with the largest deposits being in South Africa (about 41
    >>>>>> Mt), Mexico (32 Mt) and China (24 Mt). China is leading the world
    >>>>>> production with about 3 Mt annually (in 2010), followed by Mexico
    >>>>>> (1.0 Mt), Mongolia (0.45 Mt), Russia (0.22 Mt), South Africa (0.13
    >>>>>> Mt), Spain (0.12 Mt) and Namibia (0.11 Mt)."
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Regards,
    >>>>
    >>>>>> Eric Stevens
    >>>>
    >>>>> Facts! Rich don't need no steenkin' facts!!
    >>>>
    >>>> On second thought, business spends millions of dollars in consulting
    >>>> fees, for just the type of business analysis Rich gives us free. He
    >>>> obviously doesn't want to disclose his algorithms.
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Peter
    >>>
    >>> I found this:
    >>>
    >>> SPIE Professional October 2011
    >>> Optics firms see continuing shortage of rare-earth materials
    >>> The shortage of rare-earth materials is becoming increasingly dire as
    >>> already short supply chains were reduced this summer.
    >>> By Alison Jones
    >>>
    >>> Periodic Table
    >>>
    >>> The shortage of rare-earth materials is becoming increasingly dire as
    >>> already short supply chains were reduced this summer. Consequently,
    >>> prices for rare-earth materials have increased dramatically, further
    >>> impacting the optics and photonics industry, which depends on 15 of
    >>> the 17 rare-earth elements and was already suffering from
    >>> insufficient materials to meet demand.
    >>>
    >>> For example, JENOPTIK Optical Systems, an SPIE corporate member with
    >>> U.S. manufacturing facilities in Massachusetts, Florida, and Alabama,
    >>> has seen a 16-fold increase in the price of a cerium oxide, a glass
    >>> polishing compound that is crucial to its business. This has resulted
    >>> in increased costs, decreased profit margins, and an ever-growing
    >>> challenge to remain globally competitive.
    >>>
    >>> "Long term, I believe that increasing glass costs will 'shrink' the
    >>> glass map and force us to find new ways to achieve the performance
    >>> required by our customers without using anomalous partial-dispersion
    >>> glasses," said JENOPTIK President Jay Kumler, a member of the SPIE
    >>> Board of Directors.
    >>>
    >>> China currently mines 94% of the world's rare-earth elements, but
    >>> that nation has imposed quotas to limit exports of the materials,
    >>> leading to the supply shortage and increased costs.
    >>>
    >>> As an example of how governments are attempting to address the
    >>> crisis, the U.S. Congress recently included language related to rare
    >>> earths in the FY 2012 National Defense Authorization bill (H.R. 1540)
    >>> that passed the House Armed Services Committee in May but has not yet
    >>> been approved by the Senate. The provision would require the Defense
    >>> Logistics Agency Strategic Materials Center to begin developing a
    >>> plan to maintain a domestic supply chain that is competitive and
    >>> multi- sourced. This comes as the shortage has impacted key defense
    >>> applications including precision optics.
    >>>
    >>> Some countries, such as the United States, Canada, and Australia,
    >>> have also started strategic efforts to reopen mines. Those efforts,
    >>> however, are not expected to have a significant impact for three
    >>> years.
    >>>
    >>> Have a question or comment about this article? Write to us at
    >>> .

    >>
    >> I stand by my statement. What are you qualifications. If a normal
    >> person wanted to start a discussion he would start by stating In this
    >> article ..................

    >
    > Even faced with iron-clad proof, you persist in your obtuse and stupid
    > behaviour.


    The Merrimack was ironclad and lies at the bottom of a tidal basin.

    Tell me where the article talks about fluorite?

    Now tell us YOUR qualifications.


    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Oct 9, 2011
    #4
    1. Advertising

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