Re: [review] "The Adobe Photoshop CS4 Book for Digital Photographers" by Scott Kelby

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Better Info, Nov 19, 2009.

  1. Better Info

    Better Info Guest

    On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:47:54 +1000, Troy Piggins <>
    wrote:

    >After a little deliberation, reading reviews, trawling a few
    >forums, I decided so splurge and buy a couple of books. I love
    >reading novels, but for some reason for technical information
    >I've always preferred online mailing lists, forums, and USENET
    >newsgroups.
    >
    >Splashed out and bought CS4 Photoshop and Lightroom 2 recently,
    >and figured they might be worth having some books to accompany
    >them. Decided on "The Adobe Photoshop CS4 Book for Digital
    >Photographers" by Scott Kelby and "The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom
    >2 Book: The Complete Guide for Photographers" by Martin Evening.
    >
    >Man, Kelby has so many books out. I know he's "the PS go-to
    >author", but you have to wonder if reputation precedes and if
    >there's actually better PS books out there but they get drowned
    >out by Kelby overload...
    >
    >Well, my fears have been realised.
    >
    >Books received quite promptly from Amazon. Good service, first
    >time I've dealt with them. But...
    >
    >The Kelby book. Very disappointed. The layout of the pages
    >themselves is quite appealing at first glance, plenty of images
    >to display what he's talking about. But when I think about it,
    >that's one thing that annoys me about it. Too many images. I
    >mean, if he's giving a step by step on something, does he really
    >need to give an image to show him clicking the menu button
    >described in the text? Waste of space where he could add more
    >text/info/tips.
    >
    >That brings me to my next annoyance. Every new chapter title
    >takes up 2 full pages. One shows a photo, the other some text.
    >The text is the chapter title, then the rest is the explanation
    >of how he came up with his "clever" chapter title. He seems to
    >have this thing where his chapter titles are songs or movies or
    >whatever that have words or something relevant to what that
    >chapter is really about. eg there's a chapter on Bridge so he
    >calls it "London Bridge". That's fine, cute, whatever, but we
    >don't need a page explaining why you called it that. We get it.
    >Just put a paragraph about this little nuance in your intro or
    >something and give us more meat in the content of the book.
    >
    >Next point. Give the man meat. I bought this book wanting to
    >learn uber-tips from the Photoshop guru. But in reality, it looks
    >to me like he's taken the easy road. Quite a few pages (like 10
    >or so) on the unsharp mask. Not really cool things like using the
    >unsharp mask with edge masking or surface masking or anything,
    >just 10 (or so) pages on different combinations of amount,
    >radius, and threshold.
    >
    >Some of the cooler tips he's posted actually come from "friends"
    >of his showing him the tip. I like that he's passed it on, and
    >has acknowledged his mates, but I want to see more of his cool
    >stuff. I don't reckon he's sharing it all. Can't be.
    >
    >The first third or so of the book talks only about Bridge and
    >Camera Raw. Too much. Reckon you could split the book up, have
    >another thinner book on those, or each of them, sell them
    >cheaper. Gimme a book on CS4 Photoshop please, not the other
    >stuff, that's why I got Lightroom.
    >
    >Summary - I reckon the title should contain the word "Beginners"
    >in it. I'm not pro PS user, only had it for a couple of months.
    >But I picked up much of what was in the book by playing with it
    >and reading some online sites.
    >
    >I'll keep the book as a reference for some of the tips in there,
    >but reckon if I tore out the pages that contained stuff that was
    >either obvious or wasted space, I wouldn't be left with much
    >inside the covers.
    >
    >I'm just starting the Lightroom book, but initial flick through
    >looks like it goes into much more detail, which is what I want.


    Should have just downloaded them from alt.binaries.e-books.technical
    instead of wasting all that expense and time.

    They are both often uploaded, along with many other PS tutorial and tips
    books. None of which are worth buying. I've browsed or read large parts of
    the PDF versions, then promptly deleted them. Those useless 30 or 50 megs
    were wasting valuable terabyte drive space. Photography instructional books
    are written by failed photographers.
     
    Better Info, Nov 19, 2009
    #1
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  2. Better Info

    tony cooper Guest

    On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:30:11 -0600, Better Info <>
    wrote:

    > Photography instructional books
    >are written by failed photographers.


    Is yours listed on Amazon?

    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Nov 19, 2009
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Better Info

    Better Info Guest

    On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:08:45 -0500, tony cooper
    <> wrote:

    >Better Info <>


    I have no need to try to pawn off bad photography bounded in an
    instructional book to try to make all that wasted time and effort with a
    camera worth it. My photography stands on its own merit. I don't have to
    trick anyone into buying it.
     
    Better Info, Nov 19, 2009
    #3
  4. Better Info

    Better Info Guest

    On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:33:35 +1000, Troy Piggins <>
    wrote:

    >* Better Info wrote :
    >> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:08:45 -0500, tony cooper
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Better Info <>

    >>
    >> I have no need to try to pawn off bad photography bounded in an
    >> instructional book to try to make all that wasted time and effort with a
    >> camera worth it. My photography stands on its own merit. I don't have to
    >> trick anyone into buying it.

    >
    >What if everyone was downloading your photography for free off
    >binary groups when you were trying to sell it?


    Then I stop selling it publicly, just as I have for that very reason.
    They're now by private sale only, in limited editions. It's not my loss,
    it's everyone else's loss. I could care less if I sell any more of my
    photography. I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.

    Judging by those photography instructional books, the photography world
    would be a much better place if those authors pulled their books
    permanently. They're not even worth stealing. If it ain't worth stealing,
    it sure as hell ain't worth buying.
     
    Better Info, Nov 19, 2009
    #4
  5. Better Info

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Better Info <> wrote:
    >I have no need to try to pawn off bad photography bounded in an
    >instructional book to try to make all that wasted time and effort with a
    >camera worth it.


    You're going to steal the book instead?

    > My photography stands on its own merit.


    Uh, no, it doesn't.

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Nov 19, 2009
    #5
  6. Better Info

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Better Info <> wrote:
    >On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:33:35 +1000, Troy Piggins <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>* Better Info wrote :
    >>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:08:45 -0500, tony cooper
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Better Info <>
    >>>
    >>> I have no need to try to pawn off bad photography bounded in an
    >>> instructional book to try to make all that wasted time and effort with a
    >>> camera worth it. My photography stands on its own merit. I don't have to
    >>> trick anyone into buying it.

    >>
    >>What if everyone was downloading your photography for free off
    >>binary groups when you were trying to sell it?

    >
    >Then I stop selling it publicly, just as I have for that very reason.
    >They're now by private sale only, in limited editions.


    Shrug. How hard is it to duplicate "limited" edition photos?

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Nov 19, 2009
    #6
  7. Better Info

    Phred Guest

    In article <>, Better Info <> wrote:
    [snip]
    > I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.


    Bullshit!

    Cheers, Phred.

    --
    LID
     
    Phred, Nov 19, 2009
    #7
  8. Better Info

    Noons Guest

    Re: "The Adobe Photoshop CS4 Book for Digital Photographers" by ScottKelby

    On Nov 20, 10:56 am, "Atheist Chaplain" <> wrote:
    >
    > Douggie ??


    Mate: not everyone posting from an unidentified address is Douggie.
    In fact, he is usually very easily traceable...
    But I must admit: it's got a ring to it! ;)
     
    Noons, Nov 20, 2009
    #8
  9. Better Info

    Mr.T Guest

    "Phred" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>, Better Info

    <> wrote:
    > [snip]
    > > I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.

    >
    > Bullshit!


    Not everyone is greedy, but it would certainly be "bullshit" to most people
    unfortunately.

    MrT.
     
    Mr.T, Nov 20, 2009
    #9
  10. Better Info

    Better Info Guest

    On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:29:02 +1100, "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote:

    >
    >"Phred" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> In article <>, Better Info

    ><> wrote:
    >> [snip]
    >> > I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.

    >>
    >> Bullshit!

    >
    >Not everyone is greedy, but it would certainly be "bullshit" to most people
    >unfortunately.
    >
    >MrT.
    >


    Wow. An intelligent person in this newsgroup. Who would have thought that
    possible!
     
    Better Info, Nov 20, 2009
    #10
  11. Better Info

    Charlie Groh Guest

    On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:35:49 -0600, Better Info <>
    wrote:

    >On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:33:35 +1000, Troy Piggins <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>* Better Info wrote :
    >>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:08:45 -0500, tony cooper
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Better Info <>
    >>>
    >>> I have no need to try to pawn off bad photography bounded in an
    >>> instructional book to try to make all that wasted time and effort with a
    >>> camera worth it. My photography stands on its own merit. I don't have to
    >>> trick anyone into buying it.

    >>
    >>What if everyone was downloading your photography for free off
    >>binary groups when you were trying to sell it?

    >
    >Then I stop selling it publicly, just as I have for that very reason.
    >They're now by private sale only, in limited editions. It's not my loss,
    >it's everyone else's loss. I could care less if I sell any more of my
    >photography. I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.
    >
    >Judging by those photography instructional books, the photography world
    >would be a much better place if those authors pulled their books
    >permanently. They're not even worth stealing. If it ain't worth stealing,
    >it sure as hell ain't worth buying.


    ....and he, as I, "could not" care less.

    Dimwit.

    cg
     
    Charlie Groh, Nov 20, 2009
    #11
  12. Better Info

    Phred Guest

    In article <4b06291c$0$6093$>, "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote:
    >
    >"Phred" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> In article <>, Better Info

    ><> wrote:
    >> [snip]
    >> > I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.

    >>
    >> Bullshit!

    >
    >Not everyone is greedy, but it would certainly be "bullshit" to most people
    >unfortunately.


    It wasn't a comment on ethics; it was a comment on credibility.


    Cheers, Phred.

    --
    LID
     
    Phred, Nov 20, 2009
    #12
  13. Re: [review] "The Adobe Photoshop CS4 Book for DigitalPhotographers" by Scott Kelby

    Better Info <> wrote:
    > On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:33:35 +1000, Troy Piggins <>


    >>What if everyone was downloading your photography for free off
    >>binary groups when you were trying to sell it?


    > Then I stop selling it publicly, just as I have for that very reason.


    What do we need to do so that you stop posting "publicly"?

    I guess nothing will work, since you never did any photography
    in first place ...

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Nov 21, 2009
    #13
  14. Better Info

    Bob Larter Guest

    Re: [review] "The Adobe Photoshop CS4 Book for Digital Photographers"by Scott Kelby

    Phred wrote:
    > In article <>, Better Info <> wrote:
    > [snip]
    >> I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.

    >
    > Bullshit!


    Ayup. The P&S troll is full of shit - for all his boasting, he hasn't
    yet posted a photo worth looking at.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Bob Larter, Nov 24, 2009
    #14
  15. On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:41:32 +1000, Bob Larter <>
    wrote:

    >Phred wrote:
    >> In article <>, Better Info <> wrote:
    >> [snip]
    >>> I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.

    >>
    >> Bullshit!

    >
    >Ayup. The P&S troll is full of shit - for all his boasting, he hasn't
    >yet posted a photo worth looking at.



    Bob Larter's legal name: Lionel Lauer
    Home news-group, an actual group in the "troll-tracker" hierarchy:
    alt.kook.lionel-lauer (established on, or before, 2004)
    Registered Description: "the 'owner of several troll domains' needs a group where he'll stay on topic."

    <http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&num=10&as_ugroup=alt.kook.lionel-lauer>

    "Results 1 - 10 of about 2,170 for group:alt.kook.lionel-lauer."
     
    Bob Larter is Lionel Lauer - Look it up., Nov 24, 2009
    #15
  16. Re: "The Adobe Photoshop CS4 Book for Digital Photographers" by ScottKelby or Bob "on this" Larter calls somebody a torll..pot/kettle?

    x-no-archive:
    On Nov 24, 8:41 am, Bob "on this" Larter <>
    wrote:

    > Phred wrote:
    > > In article <>, Better Info <> wrote:
    > > [snip]
    > >> I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.

    >
    > > Bullshit!

    >
    > Ayup. The P&S troll is full of shit - for all his boasting, he hasn't
    > yet posted a photo worth looking at.


    YOU calling somebody a torll??? YOU ... the inept former FNVW of
    AUK who couldn't keep the vote tallies in order or even have a regular
    ko0k awards ballot? Maybe ya spent too much time sucking scott's dick
    and trying to get me an award? :) I do need a bigger tagline ...

    --
    #1 pedophile hunter: the wikisposure project.
    http://www.wikisposure.com/Alt.support.boy-lovers

    #5 ruiner of usenet.
     
    Usenet Legends bobandcarole ♥, Nov 24, 2009
    #16
  17. Re: "The Adobe Photoshop CS4 Book for Digital Photographers" by ScottKelby or Bob "on this" Larter calls somebody a torll..pot/kettle?

    x-no-archive:
    > On Nov 24, 8:41 am, Bob "on this"  Larter <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Phred wrote:
    > > > In article <>, Better Info <> wrote:
    > > > [snip]
    > > >> I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.

    >
    > > > Bullshit!

    >
    > > Ayup. The P&S troll is full of shit - for all his boasting, he hasn't
    > > yet posted a photo worth looking at.


    YOU calling somebody a torll???  YOU ... the inept former FNVW of
    AUK who couldn't keep the vote tallies in order or even have a
    regular
    ko0k awards ballot? Maybe ya spent too much time sucking scott's dick
    and trying to get me an award?   :)   I do need a bigger tagline ...

    --
    #1 pedophile hunter: the wikisposure project.
    http://www.wikisposure.com/Alt.support.boy-lovers

     #5 ruiner of usenet.
     
    Usenet Legends bobandcarole ♫, Nov 25, 2009
    #17
  18. Better Info

    Better Info Guest

    On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:01:02 +1000, "Here's Johnny" <> wrote:

    >Ray Fischer wrote:
    >> Better Info <> wrote:
    >>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:33:35 +1000, Troy Piggins
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> * Better Info wrote :
    >>>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:08:45 -0500, tony cooper
    >>>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Better Info <>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I have no need to try to pawn off bad photography bounded in an
    >>>>> instructional book to try to make all that wasted time and effort
    >>>>> with a camera worth it. My photography stands on its own merit. I
    >>>>> don't have to trick anyone into buying it.
    >>>>
    >>>> What if everyone was downloading your photography for free off
    >>>> binary groups when you were trying to sell it?
    >>>
    >>> Then I stop selling it publicly, just as I have for that very reason.
    >>> They're now by private sale only, in limited editions.

    >>
    >> Shrug. How hard is it to duplicate "limited" edition photos?

    >
    >More to the point, if he's earned more than he can use in a lifetime, why
    >does he give a shit if anyone helps themselves to his stuff? Why go to the
    >effort of selling privately?
    >
    >BEEEEEEEEEEYULLSHIT!


    More to the point, a limited edition has the photographer's signature and
    accompanying notarized documentation, for ownership and establishing future
    provenance. Also, the signature cannot be duplicated unless you have access
    to a gas-chromatograph and an electron microscope. Even then it would be
    extremely difficult due to the minute traces of unique and inert compounds
    I add to one or more of the inks used for printing. Each run of prints
    having a unique ink-signature as well as another unique ink combination
    used for the handwritten-signature. A molecular combination lock if you
    will. I know enough about chemistry, technology, and forensics to have
    ensured this degree of difficulty to secure the ownership of my works.

    The fact that none of you even know how this works (limited editions for
    photography, even just by establishing a notarized provenance only) loudly
    proclaims your own words as nothing but more newsgroup-trolls'
    "BEEEEEEEEEEYULLSHIT!"
     
    Better Info, Dec 13, 2009
    #18
  19. Better Info

    Bob Larter Guest

    Re: [review] "The Adobe Photoshop CS4 Book for Digital Photographers"by Scott Kelby

    On 14/12/2009 8:00 AM, Better Info wrote:
    > On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:01:02 +1000, "Here's Johnny"<> wrote:
    >
    >> Ray Fischer wrote:
    >>> Better Info<> wrote:
    >>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:33:35 +1000, Troy Piggins
    >>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> * Better Info wrote :
    >>>>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:08:45 -0500, tony cooper
    >>>>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Better Info<>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I have no need to try to pawn off bad photography bounded in an
    >>>>>> instructional book to try to make all that wasted time and effort
    >>>>>> with a camera worth it. My photography stands on its own merit. I
    >>>>>> don't have to trick anyone into buying it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> What if everyone was downloading your photography for free off
    >>>>> binary groups when you were trying to sell it?
    >>>>
    >>>> Then I stop selling it publicly, just as I have for that very reason.
    >>>> They're now by private sale only, in limited editions.
    >>>
    >>> Shrug. How hard is it to duplicate "limited" edition photos?

    >>
    >> More to the point, if he's earned more than he can use in a lifetime, why
    >> does he give a shit if anyone helps themselves to his stuff? Why go to the
    >> effort of selling privately?
    >>
    >> BEEEEEEEEEEYULLSHIT!

    >
    > More to the point, a limited edition has the photographer's signature and
    > accompanying notarized documentation, for ownership and establishing future
    > provenance. Also, the signature cannot be duplicated unless you have access
    > to a gas-chromatograph and an electron microscope. Even then it would be
    > extremely difficult due to the minute traces of unique and inert compounds
    > I add to one or more of the inks used for printing.


    ROTFL! Yeah, sure thing. Like anyone here believes that you've ever sold
    a print in your life.


    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Bob Larter, Dec 14, 2009
    #19
  20. On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:05:25 +1100, Bob Larter <>
    wrote:

    >On 14/12/2009 8:00 AM, Better Info wrote:
    >> On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:01:02 +1000, "Here's Johnny"<> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ray Fischer wrote:
    >>>> Better Info<> wrote:
    >>>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:33:35 +1000, Troy Piggins
    >>>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> * Better Info wrote :
    >>>>>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:08:45 -0500, tony cooper
    >>>>>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Better Info<>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I have no need to try to pawn off bad photography bounded in an
    >>>>>>> instructional book to try to make all that wasted time and effort
    >>>>>>> with a camera worth it. My photography stands on its own merit. I
    >>>>>>> don't have to trick anyone into buying it.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> What if everyone was downloading your photography for free off
    >>>>>> binary groups when you were trying to sell it?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Then I stop selling it publicly, just as I have for that very reason.
    >>>>> They're now by private sale only, in limited editions.
    >>>>
    >>>> Shrug. How hard is it to duplicate "limited" edition photos?
    >>>
    >>> More to the point, if he's earned more than he can use in a lifetime, why
    >>> does he give a shit if anyone helps themselves to his stuff? Why go to the
    >>> effort of selling privately?
    >>>
    >>> BEEEEEEEEEEYULLSHIT!

    >>
    >> More to the point, a limited edition has the photographer's signature and
    >> accompanying notarized documentation, for ownership and establishing future
    >> provenance. Also, the signature cannot be duplicated unless you have access
    >> to a gas-chromatograph and an electron microscope. Even then it would be
    >> extremely difficult due to the minute traces of unique and inert compounds
    >> I add to one or more of the inks used for printing.

    >
    >ROTFL! Yeah, sure thing. Like anyone here believes that you've ever sold
    >a print in your life.



    Bob Larter's legal name: Lionel Lauer
    Home news-group, an actual group in the "troll-tracker" hierarchy:
    alt.kook.lionel-lauer (established on, or before, 2004)
    Registered Description: "the 'owner of several troll domains' needs a group where he'll stay on topic."

    <http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&num=10&as_ugroup=alt.kook.lionel-lauer>

    "Results 1 - 10 of about 2,170 for group:alt.kook.lionel-lauer."
     
    Bob Larter is Lionel Lauer - Look it up., Dec 14, 2009
    #20
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