Re: reliable power supplies.

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by bugalugs, Jul 30, 2008.

  1. bugalugs

    bugalugs Guest

    Mark Robinson wrote:
    > Freesias wrote:
    >> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 04:30:07 +1200, Mark Robinson wrote:
    >>
    >>> Freesias wrote:
    >>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:11:02 +1200, Richard wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> The other 3 machines on it are running, and since the mains is present
    >>>>> its just passing it straight thru so not relevent.
    >>>> Why is a UPS passing the mains electricity straight through?
    >>>>
    >>>> UPSes are supposed to take mains voltage to charge the battery, and
    >>>> then to take the charge on the battery and then invert it back to 240
    >>>> volts to power the attached gear.
    >>>>
    >>>> There should never be a direct path through for mains voltage to get to
    >>>> your equipment.
    >>> This deserves a Woger award.
    >>>
    >>> The huge majority of UPSes are offline types and only start the inverter
    >>> when the mains fails.

    >>
    >> And, therefore, they are not proper UPSes - they are cheap ones that
    >> only start to function if the power fails.
    >>
    >> A proper UPS will be power the equipment from the battery and will be
    >> recharging the battery, rather than passing mains voltage directly
    >> through all the time unless it detects a drop in mains voltage.

    >
    > Only in your private little world.
    >


    Out in the real world too.

    The ones I've seen had the power 'in' to the batteries and then 'out' to
    the equipment. Mind you this was serious UPS. Power was also supplied
    to an electric motor which drove a 2 ton flywheel. That in turn was
    connected by clutches to a Caterpillar diesel engine. The moment there
    was any fluctuation in the voltage the diesel would fire up and be ready
    to drive the flywheel and the electric motor became a generator. Each
    cell in the battery was about the size of a dozen carton of beer. And
    there were racks and racks of them.

    Most installations where the supply of power is critical will have an
    updated version of that. Don't think they still use a 2 ton flywheel as
    they now have batteries that can carry the load until the diesel
    generator can come up to speed. One installation I saw had 2 V10 Detroit
    diesels.
    bugalugs, Jul 30, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. bugalugs

    bugalugs Guest

    Jerry wrote:
    > bugalugs wrote:
    >> Mark Robinson wrote:
    >>> Freesias wrote:
    >>>> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 04:30:07 +1200, Mark Robinson wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Freesias wrote:
    >>>>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:11:02 +1200, Richard wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> The other 3 machines on it are running, and since the mains is
    >>>>>>> present
    >>>>>>> its just passing it straight thru so not relevent.
    >>>>>> Why is a UPS passing the mains electricity straight through?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> UPSes are supposed to take mains voltage to charge the battery, and
    >>>>>> then to take the charge on the battery and then invert it back to 240
    >>>>>> volts to power the attached gear.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> There should never be a direct path through for mains voltage to
    >>>>>> get to
    >>>>>> your equipment.
    >>>>> This deserves a Woger award.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The huge majority of UPSes are offline types and only start the
    >>>>> inverter
    >>>>> when the mains fails.
    >>>>
    >>>> And, therefore, they are not proper UPSes - they are cheap ones that
    >>>> only start to function if the power fails.
    >>>>
    >>>> A proper UPS will be power the equipment from the battery and will
    >>>> be recharging the battery, rather than passing mains voltage
    >>>> directly through all the time unless it detects a drop in mains
    >>>> voltage.
    >>>
    >>> Only in your private little world.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Out in the real world too.
    >>
    >> The ones I've seen had the power 'in' to the batteries and then 'out'
    >> to the equipment. Mind you this was serious UPS. Power was also
    >> supplied to an electric motor which drove a 2 ton flywheel. That in
    >> turn was connected by clutches to a Caterpillar diesel engine. The
    >> moment there was any fluctuation in the voltage the diesel would fire
    >> up and be ready to drive the flywheel and the electric motor became a
    >> generator. Each cell in the battery was about the size of a dozen
    >> carton of beer. And there were racks and racks of them.
    >>
    >> Most installations where the supply of power is critical will have an
    >> updated version of that. Don't think they still use a 2 ton flywheel
    >> as they now have batteries that can carry the load until the diesel
    >> generator can come up to speed. One installation I saw had 2 V10
    >> Detroit diesels.
    >>

    > That would be an old system indeed. The last flywheel UPS I saw was in
    > the 60s and 70s and used for an airline reservation system. They had
    > two of these oprocessors, and lots of disk drives and a few samller
    > computers.
    > http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_2423PH2195.html
    >


    > When power failed the lights in the room went off but the computers kept
    > running. There was enough light coming from the indicaters on the
    > operator console that you could see, abd thgere were a couple of battery
    > powered emergency lights in the corner. The way it actually worked was
    > the electric motor rove a flywheel that was connected to a generator,
    > all on the same shaft. When power failed the flywheel provided enough
    > energy to drive the generator until the diesel started and another
    > generator provided power to the motor.


    The system with the flywheel was in the old telephone exchange in
    Hamilton and the 2 Detroit diesels was being installed in the 2nd
    satellite antenna at Warkworth. The submarine cable terminal at Takapuna
    had a bank of 6 or 8 smaller diesel generators for the 2 cable systems.
    And 'yes' it was a little while ago but it was a UPS or no-break system
    before most people had even heard of the term.
    bugalugs, Jul 30, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. bugalugs

    EMB Guest

    bugalugs wrote:
    > The system with the flywheel was in the old telephone exchange in
    > Hamilton and the 2 Detroit diesels was being installed in the 2nd
    > satellite antenna at Warkworth.


    I've test run and load tested those Detroits in the past.
    EMB, Jul 30, 2008
    #3
  4. bugalugs

    bugalugs Guest

    EMB wrote:
    > bugalugs wrote:
    >> The system with the flywheel was in the old telephone exchange in
    >> Hamilton and the 2 Detroit diesels was being installed in the 2nd
    >> satellite antenna at Warkworth.

    >
    > I've test run and load tested those Detroits in the past.


    Did they still have the Ozie sheep umbrella there ??
    bugalugs, Jul 30, 2008
    #4
  5. bugalugs

    EMB Guest

    bugalugs wrote:
    > Did they still have the Ozie sheep umbrella there ??


    Yep :)
    EMB, Jul 31, 2008
    #5
  6. bugalugs

    bugalugs Guest

    EMB wrote:
    > bugalugs wrote:
    >> Did they still have the Ozie sheep umbrella there ??

    >
    > Yep :)

    And the two Ronnies or had on gone to Ozzie??
    bugalugs, Aug 1, 2008
    #6
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Silverstrand

    Modular Power Supplies @ A True Review

    Silverstrand, Jun 28, 2005, in forum: Front Page News
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    731
    unholy
    Jun 29, 2005
  2. Silverstrand

    HEC Power Supplies @ ThinkComputers.org

    Silverstrand, Jul 17, 2005, in forum: Front Page News
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    775
    zachig
    Jul 20, 2005
  3. ~misfit~

    Re: reliable power supplies.

    ~misfit~, Jul 27, 2008, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    6
    Views:
    377
    ~misfit~
    Jul 29, 2008
  4. Craig Shore

    Re: reliable power supplies.

    Craig Shore, Jul 30, 2008, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    376
    ~misfit~
    Aug 1, 2008
  5. Richard

    Re: reliable power supplies.

    Richard, Aug 6, 2008, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    361
    ~misfit~
    Aug 7, 2008
Loading...

Share This Page